Mini 1397: War is Hell (Game Over)

[Tierce]

Don't get me wrong, I can see everyone getting it at the same time for a pure logistical reason--this game is already hell (heh) to mod even without different accumulation times (and frequencies! Imagine continued different frequencies for 2+ people, there would be no end to the PMs Flay has to send). I'd say accumulation hits at the same time for everyone, but with a variation in frequency throughout the game. But it's still something we should not claim unless we massclaim. I have to think better on that and see if I can fathom the benefits of massclaim without you bringing them up. I don't see why scum would need to lie about what type of role they have; if they are Angels, they have the angel part of role as well, they're just missing the "Fallen" bit.

[PeregrineV]

I bear gifts!

Don't know if this works because my connection is being etc. Let me know if it doesn't work and I'll pester Flay/Feysal for another version.

But if it does, it's the collected archive of

more pansy angels being whiny and not killing people nearly fast enough wtf why is this 200+ pages

War in Heaven 3. Credit goes to Feysal, s-lullaby and yours truly.

http://www.mediafire.com/?abeqx9yyaokuq82

Thanks Tierce. I was actually trying to find post ???? and was sad that it was missing, but I have a copy of it now.

[PeregrineV]

@quadz(22)- Since the scum are angels, I'm guessing they have a crapton more hp, or maybe heal/regen at a higher rate. They could also have Rage, but since every demon has it then not sure how they would gain any role advantage other than their secret coordination.

Matt(29)- How do you not get rage? It's rule C, it's in the sample PM, and it should have a big section in your PM.

OK, all caught up.

HEAL: Kinetic

Up for pseudo voting. Also up for terminating insenate players, since doing so last game would have been a quick and easy town win.

[Mr. Flay]

Obviously I will be a little lenient with prods/activity during the Thanksgiving holiday.

First Damage Tally of Epoch I:

• PeregrineV
  has taken 1 HP damage.
  
  
• Lady Lambdadelta
  is at 1 HP above normal maximum.
  
  
• kanyeknowsbest
  ,
  MattP
  ,
  Kinetic
  ,
  quadz08
  and
  Tierce
  are all at their default HP total after getting and giving Heals.
  
  

  ---

  
  
• Yosarian2
  ,
  Zdenek
  ,
  scooby
  ,
  charter
  ,
  kdowns
  , and
  Albert B. Rampage
  are all undamaged.

[quadz08]

Since the scum are angels

I reeeeeeeally want to jump on this as a slip, but I can also see it as just coming from reading opening flavor. Noted for later.

[Yosarian2]

Hi, everyone.

refresh my memory on what youre referring to.

Apologies for bringing up pansy angel decision-planning.

'tajo talked about a fake voting system (I can keep VCs if we go this way), only Hurting people decided by consensus.
Fonzie had a "buddy" system, where Hurts would be called out by a player and required another's support to go through.

Personally, especially with the alteration in the Heal mechanic, I'd rather use 'tajo's method. There isn't much of a risk in dragging because we only increase HP-from-Heal when Rage accumulates, and The Fonz's buddy method can be disastrous. Yes, voting is slow, but we don't have deadlines, and it creates patterns that are easier to study than the buddy plan.

I agree with this. A voting system is pretty key; especally with the unpredictable rage mechanic, we do not want to be in a situation where damage gets spread out and everyone gets hurt every day, because that makes it much easier for scum to just blitz in endgame and wipe us out. Last war in heaven game I played, scum had daytalk, which makes it even more dangerous.

So, yeah; let's figure out who we want to lynch, give them a chance to claim if they wish, and then just focus damage on that one person. A fake-voting system is a reasonable way to do that.

[Yosarian2]

, I want everyone else to think about Mass Claim and see if they think it might be a good idea here.

Specifically, claiming why type of role you have, names aren't necessary really, nor are powers. I think if we can split the town a little bit, we might have an easier time finding scum.

I'm not really in favor of mass claim in general. Not really sure how it'll good do.

One thing I *REALLY* do not want to see is to see people claim how many hitpoints they have. Once we decide to lynch someone, we will be able to kill them, I'm not worried about that. However, if scum know how many hitpoints everyone has, it makes it much easier for them to pull off an endgame blitz.

So, we do *NOT* want to know how many hitpoints anyone has, and I'd rather people not discuses the issue at all. I guess if you're 1-3 hitpoints away from death feel free to claim that just so that we know we're hammering you, but short of that, I don't want to hear it.

[Yosarian2]

I like the "heal everyone" plan. Might as well get everyone to hp +1 asap.

HEAL: charter.

[quadz08]

Yos, we won't get to +1. Heals subtract 1 HP from anyone who uses one, so as long as we do full circles, everyone will end up exactly where they started.

[quadz08]

Oh wait derp no. Rage accumulation puts it back I forgot. Duyyyyy

[Zdenek]

theres also the question of whether or not we want to publicly claim rage expenditures to discern between scum and town rage. im leaning in favor of as it could force scum to save/publicly use an amount of rage equal to what a townie would have

I think this could be a good idea. If we force scummy people to expend their rage by helping along lynches, we can limit the total amount of rage controlled by scum. However, I don't really see how we need to mass-claim rage for it to work. Plus, if it's not claimed, scum won't know how much rage they should actually claim to have used (at least early on), so that when we do eventually mass-claim, this could be a useful scum hunting tool.

The more information that is open and honest, the less room we allow for the scum to manipulate the chaos. That is what killed us in WiH3

Is there something specific that you are referring to?

Zdenek's quicklynch to prevent scum from using all their rage idea is pretty unlikely to work.

It not that I think we should quicklynch. It's that once we've decided who to kill off, we should do it fairly quickly.

That was in WiH3, the thing was, the scum DIDNT KILL ANYONE, and yet the town REFUSED to heal the sudden dramatic and random damage. That needs to not happen here.

Who wasn't healed? I remember SpringLullaby being hurt, but not killed, but if I remember correctly, she was healed after.

[kdowns]

HEAL: Zdenek

Am I doing it right then?

[Kinetic]

The more information that is open and honest, the less room we allow for the scum to manipulate the chaos. That is what killed us in WiH3

Is there something specific that you are referring to?

That was in WiH3, the thing was, the scum DIDNT KILL ANYONE, and yet the town REFUSED to heal the sudden dramatic and random damage. That needs to not happen here.

Who wasn't healed? I remember SpringLullaby being hurt, but not killed, but if I remember correctly, she was healed after.

Specific? Not really. It is just sort of a general rule I've always lived by. The more information that is available the better, generally. Some information is better to keep secret, sometimes, but especially for a player like me, who looks for connections and patterns in the mod actions, even normally information that is good to be hidden I can find a better reason to have it. One too many mods has made the mistake of giving me JUST enough information in my role or through a mass claim that I can break the game. And these aren't simple games I've broken this way.

Re: Heals. The third War in Heaven was chaos. I thought I remembered no one being healed during that rage spike, but I could be wrong and I don't really want to double check. However, I was one of the first couple lynches in WiH 3 and rage was used on me, but it didn't kill me, only nearly killed me, and the town refused to heal me. Even though I was teetering on 1-2 life, long enough that another scum came and finished me off.

Re: Hit Points. I'm in agreement with Yos. Hit Points would not matter in the idea I have.

[Zdenek]

Specific?

I meant in WiH3.

However, I was one of the first couple lynches in WiH 3 and rage was used on me, but it didn't kill me, only nearly killed me, and the town refused to heal me. Even though I was teetering on 1-2 life, long enough that another scum came and finished me off.

Who is your alt?

[Zdenek]

Looking at the first post of that game, the only two people killed by rage were Kublai Khan and inHim, and they were both killed in one shot, weren't they? Was there someone else killed by rage where it wasn't noted in the opening post?

[Yosarian2]

Thinking about it, we kind of are on a time limit here. If rage accumulates at random intervals, then whenever X time passes, the scum group can just all rage-dump and kill someone. We...might be able to catch them doing that, especially if we follow the "town claim whenever we use rage" rule, but it's dodgy; I think time is not on our side here in this game. We don't want to let the day drag on forever here.

[Kinetic]

Specific?

I meant in WiH3.

However, I was one of the first couple lynches in WiH 3 and rage was used on me, but it didn't kill me, only nearly killed me, and the town refused to heal me. Even though I was teetering on 1-2 life, long enough that another scum came and finished me off.

Who is your alt?

Like I said. Not really.

No one... I was in WiH3...

[Kinetic]

Looking at the first post of that game, the only two people killed by rage were Kublai Khan and inHim, and they were both killed in one shot, weren't they? Was there someone else killed by rage where it wasn't noted in the opening post?

Ah, I think that's where you're mistaken. I wasn't killed by rage. My kill was a spectacular misstep by the scum. One was trying to heal me, while another was trying to kill me. It was crazy. They tried to do it in coordination to gain town cred.

O SHIT, I was in War in Heaven 2! I didn't realize there was a War in Heaven after mine...

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10894

Kinetic's desperate cries for assistance from his fellow angels are cut short just as Dripping Goofball approaches him; an unseen blow slashes through his back, cutting him nearly in two and leaving his body crumpled and broken on the ground, gleaming iridescently. A fading scream of rage ricochets off the clouds, with no visible source.

KINETIC, WHERE HAVE YOU GONE? A SUDDEN DEATH BODES NOT WELL FOR YOUR STRUGGLE.

Kinetic, Loyal Cherub, was cast out of Heaven.

DGB's heal in post 1909 does not count; her action is unspent.

FIRST DAMAGE TALLY OF THE SEVENTEENTH ÆON

Albert B. Rampage, Nuwen, populartajo, q21, Seraphim, The Fonz, and WeyounsLastClone are at 1 HP above their normal maximum.

DrippingGoofball, Giuseppe, and roflcopter are all at normal HP.

vIQleS has 1 damage.
Tenchi and Xylthixlm have 2 damage each.
Firestarter and zwetschenwasser have 4 damage each.

[Kinetic]

Actually, looking back, yes it was rage that killed me in that game. Side-Note: DGB tried to heal me, but did so purposely after her scum partner had spent rage to kill me.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah. I was scum with her in that game, although I only replaced in late, and yeah, we co-ordinated everything with daytalk in that game. We have to be prepared for similar shenanigans this game.

[Kinetic]

Btw. VLA today and tomorrow for the holiday.

[quadz08]

Semi V/LA until Monday

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I should have stated that I have a visitor from a far and away land for the weekend, so I'm a little bust until Monday.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

...

Busy. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

[scooby]

VLA until Saturday