Eyewitness 1

[Mr Stoofer]

Eyewitness

Players

:

1. LyingBrian
2. PookyTheMagicalBear
3. VisMaior

I read a description of

3 Player Mafia

on the Wiki and I thought it sounded like fun. It's not really Mafia in the normal sense, so I've re-named it "Eyewitness" so that we can play it as a Mish Mash game.

Rules

:

There are 3 players: one Murderer and 2 Witnesses. One of the Witnesses is a Sane Witness and the other is a Delusional Witness. Neither witness knows whether he/she is sane or delusional.

Each player is wearing a shirt of a different colour (which they know).

The Sane Witness saw the murder and is also told the colour of the Murderer's shirt.

The Delusional Witness thinks he saw the Murderer but (unbeknownst to him) he actually saw the Sane Witnes and is therefore given the colour of the Sane Witness' shirt.

Play

:

Players may vote and unvote at will as in a normal game of Mafia (votes and unvotes must be in bold). It takes 2 votes to lynch. Once someone gets 2 votes, the game is over and no amount of unvoting will change that. The mod then announces the lynch, and resulting winner(s).

Winning

:

The Murderer wins if a Witness is lynched. The Witnesses both win if the Murderer is lynched.

[LyingBrian]

/in, this sounds like a lot of fun!

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

/in sounds good good

[LyingBrian]

i am a newbie, so this may sound like a stupid question, but i want to clarify before the game starts as not to arouse suspicion either way depending on what role i get.

anyway, are all 3 players going to know what 3 colors are in the game, obviously the 2 townspeople will know 2 colors (theirs and who they believe they saw commit the crime). i'm not sure if the Mafia would be at a disadvantage if they only know 1 color or not, i'm just wondering, trying to come up w/ a strategy for both roles.

also i'm assuming that nobody knows which player is wearing what color, as this would give the Mafia a distinct advantage, but then again, maybe not.

mod, please give clarification, also if it is ok w/ everybody else could we change it to different types of mixed drinks instead of colors of shirts? just a little something to liven it a little!?!

[Mr Stoofer]

anyway, are all 3 players going to know what 3 colors are in the game

No. The witnesses will know 2 colours - their own and the person they saw. The Murderer will only know 1 colour.

also i'm assuming that nobody knows which player is wearing what color, as this would give the Mafia a distinct advantage, but then again, maybe not.

Nobody knows which of the players is wearing which colour shirt - except their own.

[VisMaior]

OK, Ill try this.

[Mr Stoofer]

OK, the role PMs have gone out.

All shirt colours have 2 words in them - a common colour plus a qualifier (e.g. "rose pink" "sea green" "pale yellow").

Both witnesses will get PMs in in this form

Witness: Mr Stoofer.
You are wearing a rose pink shirt.
The Murderer is wearing a sea green shirt.

None of the colours in the above example are in the game.

NOW FIND THAT MURDERER!

And if anyone else wants to play, just post in this thread and I'll start another game.

[VisMaior]

heh, now what. Let me think for a minute.

So the 2 of us knows 2 sirt colors, while the 3rd one only 1 color.
If we state, what color we saw the murderer has to make up 1 color. Then we state what color we have on us.

1. If the mafia in the 1.st step tells his own color-> 2 people have said the same color, the 3. is cleared. we call them to state their own color. If the colors are the same, the 2.nd one is the murderer. If they are different, the 3.rd one will know, wich color is in the game.

2. if the mafia makes up a color, we then claim all what color we wear. The mafia has 2 options
1. tell the truth
2. lie
color saw
1 2
2 3
3

tells the truth
stating whom he saw
2,3,4
what color we have
1,2,3
the player who saw a nonexistant color, is the mafia

lies
stating whom he saw
2,3,4
what color we have
1,2,5
there are 2 players who saw a nonexistant color. the 3. player is the delusional witness, and the mafia is the 4th one.

Is there a possibility i missed? (apart from guessing correctly a color)

[LyingBrian]

under our names is a title, i am relatively new, so mine says "Townsperson", VisMajor is a "Goon", Mr. Stoofer, our wonderful mod is "Mafia Scum", pooky, however has a title which i'm assuming is unique.

1st ? does anybody know all of the levels and their order?
2nd ? how is your level determined? the 2 logical conclusions i came up w/ was length of time registered or more probably, # of posts, can anybody confirm?

VM, your entire post is based on 1 assumption, that everyone is willing to cooperate. With only 3 players, everyone must walk a very thin line. One goof-up could cost the game for either side. Based on your post, I believe 1 of 2 assumptions can be made.

1. If I am a witness, then I know that you are either the other witness or the murderer. Your post seems very agressive which tells me you are either a witness eager to lynch the murderer by getting the other witness AND the murderer to cooperate (a long shot IMO), or you are the murderer eager to bait somebody into assuming you are the other witness, thereby assuming the 3rd person is the murderer, casting a vote for the 3rd person, opening the door for you to cast the 2nd vote and win the game!

2. If I am the murderer, all i need to do is either convince you, VM, that I am the other witness, lynching Pooky to win the game, or convince Pooky that you are the Mafia to lynch you and win the game!

I understand that by even mentioning this, that I am casting suspicion on myself, but I am just trying to bring an objective point of view to the table. At this time, i will not confirm or deny that I am either the murderer or a witness, nor will I confirm my shirt color or any other shirt color that I may or may not know.

very interesting 1st post, this could turn out to be a long, interesting game! It will make the game even more interesting once Pooky adds his or her spin.

Moderator, I understand that we can not quote the PM we received upon game initialization, but are we able to chose to "reveal" our identity, and any shirt colors we may know? I apologize for asking what seems to me a beginner question, but this is my 1st time, so please forgive me. I have a general concept of the game as I have played it at parties before, I just need to know some technical info.

[VisMaior]

About the unique titles: there is a thread in the site info topic or somewhere called "dance of the title fairy" where people nominate others for a unique title based on mafiascum experience.

My entire post is based on 1 assumption: the other witness will want to cooperate, the one who does not want to cooperate is an autolynch. So I think the murderer will want to fake cooperation. No other assumption is made.

My post is not agressive, Its just analytic. I did not intend to persuade anybody of anything, it was purely a theoretical thing. And that should be clear even for a beginner. FOS LyingBrian

Oh, and, do you see a possibility my plan would not work?

[Mr Stoofer]

Moderator, I understand that we can not quote the PM we received upon game initialization, but are we able to chose to "reveal" our identity, and any shirt colors we may know?

You can reveal your own shirt colour, and what colour you saw, if you wish.

[LyingBrian]

My entire post is based on 1 assumption: the

other

witness will want to cooperate, the one who does not want to cooperate is an autolynch. So I think the murderer will want to fake cooperation. No other assumption is made.

Do you want to make a formal claim as a witness? I am not refusing to cooperate, but I am not agreeing to cooperate either, I think we should leave this theory of yours open to discussion. I am trying right now in the earliest stages of this game to come across as neutral, partly b/c I don't have a solid strategy as this is my 1st time playing online.

My post is not agressive, Its just analytic. I did not intend to persuade anybody of anything, it was purely a theoretical thing.

My post is analytical as well. I tried to bring a balanced view that conveyed my thoughts about your post, but also did not give away my position.

And that should be clear even for a beginner. FOS LyingBrian

Wow, an FOS in the 3rd post, maybe that's not aggressive either. Again, I think this is going to be an interesting game. I sated in my post that I realized I was casting suspicion on myself, so I'm not sure that an FOS was necessary until Pooky had a chance to contribute, but if I was the Murderer, the first thing I would do would be to divert suspicion off myself. No formal FOS, though. Again, I want to hear what Pooky has to say!

Oh, and, do you see a possibility my plan would not work?

If you are a Witness, I think a different strategy may be needed. I may have planted enough doubt where even if I am the Murderer, the other Witness may not want to believe that you are a Witness, especially since you don't know if you are the Sane Witness or the Delusional Witness. If a) you are the Sane Witness, and b) you give your shirt color away, the other Witness may think you are the Murderer

If you are the Mafia, then maybe your plan is working perfectly! You suggest something that seems innocent, but maybe too innocent. Somebody (in this case, me) says something about it and gives you the opportunity to divert suspicion. (And yes, I realize that suggesting you could be the Murderer could be looked as my trying to divert suspicion)

If you are a Witness, and I am a Witness, then maybe we are doing Pooky's job by attacking each other. Again, this is not a formal FOS, just bringing my thoughts to the table.

P.S. thank you for pointing me to that thread, VM! thank you for the clarification, Sir Stoofer! another question, anyone! while i understand the concept of FOS, i don't understand what the letters stand for, help?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Nice try VM, you almost make me think u are certainly innocent with your effort! I myself consider something about color claiming but I realized this:

What if the Murderer just lies about what color shirt he is wearing and in turn with that makes the credible eye witness look like he is making crap out of his butt? How would the delusional one then know which one to pick?

Anyway VM, one question and I don't need brian to answer this one.

Which Ice Cream do you like better? Chocolate, Vanilla or Coffee?

[VisMaior]

This is funny.

Ok, lets see:

First, I want to make a formal claim: Im a witness. Eh, heh, who would have tought? [/sarcasm]

I think we should leave this theory of yours open to discussion

true, true, what you fail tough, is really discussing it. no offense, just making a note.

My post is not agressive, Its just analytic. I did not intend to persuade anybody of anything, it was purely a theoretical thing.

My post is analytical as well. I tried to bring a balanced view that conveyed my thoughts about your post, but also did not give away my position.

You said that my post was agressive, I just pointed out, that it was not.

If you are a Witness, I think a different strategy may be blahblahbla, yackedy smackedy a formal FOS, just bringing my thoughts to the table.

CrapLogic, TM. What the heck, I did not say anybody was witness or scum, and my theory does not involve claiming townie. It does not even rely on persuasion. Its simple pure logic. IF the teoretical witnesses do as I presented, the scum will have to concede, by logic. My logic may be faulty, so I asked for other opinions. You try to play this as a normal maffia game, what it is not (yet). And, I did not attack you either

And, FOS stands for "FINGER OF SUSPICION". [Insert obligatory anagram joke here]

[VisMaior]

What if the Murderer just lies about what color shirt he is wearing and in turn with that makes the credible eye witness look like he is making crap out of his butt? How would the delusional one then know which one to pick?

He would know, that he is the delusional one, so whom he saw, is the innocent. Could you explain with actual colors?

Anyway VM, one question and I don't need brian to answer this one.
Which Ice Cream do you like better? Chocolate, Vanilla or Coffee?

Huh? Vanilla. Am I missing something?

[LyingBrian]

1st i'll play defensive...

You said that my post was agressive, I just pointed out, that it was not.

i never STATED that your original post was aggressive, i STATED that it SEEMED aggressive to me, my opinion. this may be b/c i've never played a game before, i'm just reacting to the post and my perception of the post.

true, true, what you fail tough, is really discussing it. no offense, just making a note.

were my first 2 posts in vain? i thought that i brought valid problems with your theory to the table which is validified by the fact that Pooky is questioning your scumminess...

CrapLogic, TM. What the heck, I did not say anybody was witness or scum, and my theory does not involve claiming townie. It does not even rely on persuasion. Its simple pure logic.

you basically claimed townie on your first post. while you never claimed it out right, i believe it was implied, at least that was the impression i got the first time i read it.

You try to play this as a normal maffia game, what it is not (yet). And, I did not attack you either

i'm not TRYING to play it as anything, i've told you at least twice now, i've never played any kind of Mafia game on the internet before. logic is in the eye of the beholder. you just have to make it sound good to get somebody else to agree with you. and i took the FOS as an attack. somebody showed an ounce of suspicion and you jumped like a fish out of water.

so far you have acted very defensively, which logically would be the position of the Murderer. if you truly are a townie, i would suggest you bring something else besides your original theory to the table. or why don't you start us off, by claiming a color?

[LyingBrian]

oops, forgot a couple things

1st: yeah, pooky, what's up w/ the ice cream thing? and why wasn't i included? i like ice cream!

2nd:

FOS: VisMaior

3rd: Pooky, what pronoun should i use to refer to you?

[VisMaior]

were my first 2 posts in vain? i thought that i brought valid problems with your theory to the table

No, you did not. The theory should work, on a theoretical, "other" 3 person maffia game. The theory is independent on you, me, or the currennt game. Your points were all questioning my posts style, not the actual content.

you basically claimed townie on your first post

I simply cannot bend my mind around this. Why on earth would anyone claim murderer???? I assume, everyone claims townie, so that is a no-information. Whats the point in pointing out that I claimed townie, even if it happened implicite?My theory would work against me if I was the murderer. It is independent on my claim as well.

is in the eye of the beholder

This is a gem. You have been sigged.

[VisMaior]

Oh, and, if noone finds a

real

error in my theorys logic, I can begin with the claiming. Pooky?

[Mr Stoofer]

Anyone want a vote count...?

Thought not.

[LyingBrian]

ok, VM, i went back to your original post, and reread it. if you get rid of any variables, you are correct, it is possible to use just the facts to find the mafia.

but there is a loophole, and it is possible for the Mafia to end both rounds in a tie, and only eliminating one possibility.

but at this time i do not wish to disclose it. this may get me lynched and end the game prematurely and a win for the Mafia, but i have my reasons.

1st reason is there is a loophole in the loophole, so it would still be possible if i disclosed the loophole to the Mafia for us townies to definitively find the Mafia. i would rather play the game the way it was intended, which is finding who you think the Mafia is by probing and good detective work.

2nd reason, i'm not convinced, VM that you're not the Mafia. Pooky is so cute, i have to assume innocence on the bear's behalf

[VisMaior]

I cannot fint this loophole. Are you sure there is one? Pooky, post or succumb!

[VisMaior]

Ok, i think I see it. Ill try to come up with a solution...

[VisMaior]

What was I thinking, this wont work the slightest..

I`m still thinking this over

[VisMaior]

Ok, I had a retought.

I came to the conclusion, that, given the assumption that the maffiatee cannot guess a color correctly, one could decipher the mafiatee, if we follow the plan of first claiming what color we saw, then in the same order what color we have on us.

1. if someone claims to have seen a color that someone else claimed, he is the mafia
2. if no color is claimed twice, we say what color we have on us. The guy, who has seen a color not in the game, is the mafia.

I think its bulletproof. I cannot see any loopholes. (except if 2 people have the same color, what is unlikely) The witnesses will want to cooperate, the maffia has to, if he does not want to fall out.