Micro 48 -Vengeful Mafia

[Zoidberg]

Riss:

• How much experience playing mafia do you have?
  
• How active do you expect to be (ex. post several times a day, once a day, every other day, etc)?
  
• Does your role PM say you are mafia?
  
• Do you support any policy lynches? (i.e. lynches based on things such as lying or infrequent posting vice lynches based on actually finding someone suspicious)
  
• Would you vote someone you thought was town to prevent a day ending in a no-lynch?
  
• What's your time zone?

[charter]

Vote Riss

It looks like Riss is the GF and Zoidberg is the Goon, but still early on that.

Based on what.

Post 14 with no vote. Were you not being serious in 14? I took it as you had actual suspicion of Umbrage.

[charter]

And Riss saying I'm lurking when Eidolon hasn't posted looks like a very poor attempt to discredit my vote on him.

[charter]

Vote Riss

It looks like Riss is the GF and Zoidberg is the Goon, but still early on that.

Based on what.

Post 14 with no vote. Were you not being serious in 14? I took it as you had actual suspicion of Umbrage.

To elaborate, Umbrage questions Riss and you deflect for Riss. If I was town and made that post, I'd have voted. You didn't vote, so it looks suspect to me.

The reason I suspect Riss of being scum is getting defensive from Umbrage's lolcase.

[Umbrage]

Current impressions:

charter looks town to me, the tone and flow of his posts seems natural.

Riss_ is probably scum, the jump on me and casual suspicion of charter seems odd. Reads more like newbie scum than newbie town IMO.

Zoidberg could go either way, but I've no real reason to suspect him right now.

When I played with Eidolon, she was a fairly easy town read, so that shouldn't be a problem either way.

[Empking]

Vote Coun 1

Riss_ (1) - Charter

Three votes to lynch.

[Riss_]

Riss:

• How much experience playing mafia do you have?
  
• How active do you expect to be (ex. post several times a day, once a day, every other day, etc)?
  
• Does your role PM say you are mafia?
  
• Do you support any policy lynches? (i.e. lynches based on things such as lying or infrequent posting vice lynches based on actually finding someone suspicious)
  
• Would you vote someone you thought was town to prevent a day ending in a no-lynch?
  
• What's your time zone?

1. Tons just not on this account.
2. Quite active actually.
3. Town. ^_^
4. I sometimes do Policy Lynches, but it has to be for a really good reason. Small games like this policy lynches aren't helpful. I will vote for lurkers and liars though.
5. Depends. I would have to know by a cop result that they were actually town to no-lynch. The cop has to be uncounterclaimed too!
6. EST.

[Eidolon]

my first impression is that zoidberg is scum and riss is town.

this is due to zoidberg's post 14. he takes advantage of riss' reaction to umbrage. i don't know if this makes umbrage town, or zoidberg is distancing from umbrage. but zoidbergs buddying to riss, and then the weak attack on riss after some interest pops up toward her in 24, seems opportunistic and scummy.

i'm null on both umbrage and charter.

Zoidberg, how does riss' post 15 seem forced, when you were egging on her reaction to umbrage?

charter, you came up with a vote quick. how are you so confident of both scums from just a couple of posts?

Umbrage, could riss not be reacting that way towards your read because he's a newb who is not used to being called scum? What distinguishes him from being newb scum rather than newb town?

[Zoidberg]

Post 14 with no vote. Were you not being serious in 14? I took it as you had actual suspicion of Umbrage.

To elaborate, Umbrage questions Riss and you deflect for Riss. If I was town and made that post, I'd have voted. You didn't vote, so it looks suspect to me.

The reason I suspect Riss of being scum is getting defensive from Umbrage's lolcase.

As already stated, it was page 1 and I thought it was pretty obvious I was being facetious. You can try and paint it as deflecting for Riss if you

really

want to.

[Zoidberg]

1. Tons just not on this account.
2. Quite active actually.
3. Town. ^_^
4. I sometimes do Policy Lynches, but it has to be for a really good reason. Small games like this policy lynches aren't helpful. I will vote for lurkers and liars though.
5. Depends. I would have to know by a cop result that they were actually town to no-lynch. The cop has to be uncounterclaimed too!
6. EST.

Oh, so you're an alt?

[Eidolon]

Okay. let's look at the gf angle. the best way for town to exploit this setup is to lynch the gf.

i think one thing that is fairly certain is that riss is not the gf for the amount of pressure she took on immediately. everyone supported her wagon.

we need more info to narrow it down any further.

umbrage's immediate push would have been risky as scum and especially gf but i wouldn't put it past him.

The reactions to zoidberg were a null from umbrage with charter making a slight push on him, and the reactions to charter were positive from umbrage and a slight push from charter. the reactions to umbrage were a slight push from zoidberg and agreeance from charter.

More info would help to narrow it down, but the immediate reactions are something to keep in mind.

[Eidolon]

zoidberg, being facetious or not, you egged on riss' reaction, and then called her scummy for it when asked. why?

[Zoidberg]

Zoidberg, how does riss' post 15 seem forced, when you were egging on her reaction to umbrage?

I'm not sure what you mean here. Are you saying you think I was egging Riss on? I wasn't.

[Zoidberg]

zoidberg, being facetious or not, you egged on riss' reaction, and then called her scummy for it when asked. why?

See #37

[Eidolon]

Umbrage is scum.

Discuss.

Okay your point? The guy beat me via preview. Wasn't that long of a difference. Your point is basically null.

Clearly. Are you scum Umbrage?

Did you expect riss to think you were joking here?

You call her 15 forced, but in 14 you instigated that reaction, and mildly pushed umbrage after that.

Does riss taking that seriously actually seem scummy?

Seems like an opportunistic opinion to make of her reaction, especially because of how neutral you made it sound while still calling her scummy.

[Zoidberg]

Did you expect riss to think you were joking here?

I really didn't give it that much thought, given it was the very first page of the game. Mostly I was trying to generate discussion by taking a purely arbitrary stance. I think it worked, and I think you're reading

way

too much into it.

You call her 15 forced, but in 14 you instigated that reaction, and mildly pushed umbrage after that.

You keep implying that my post caused Riss' reaction. Riss is a big girl who makes her own decisions, and I really have no control over how she does or does not respond to any given statement.

Does riss taking that seriously actually seem scummy?

Yes, 15 does feel forced and slightly scummy. I think it's

also

pretty obvious that Umbrage's post was not uber serious, especially given his response later on. So when Riss comes on and says "it's not an argument town would make," it seems forced and contrived to me, like scum who's nervous or someone who's trying to drum up suspicion against umbrage when there's really no case to be made.

I originally cut her some slack for it because I thought she was new to mafia, but it appears that she is just an alt account.

Seems like an opportunistic opinion to make of her reaction, especially because of how neutral you made it sound while still calling her scummy.

I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

[Eidolon]

I never said you caused her reaction. I said that you instigated it. there is a big difference there.

I understand that your post 14 could be something that town would throw out for reactions and to get things flowing.

But because riss was already being defensive about umbrage, which isn't an affiliation tell in and of itself, it seems natural for her to take your post seriously. (hell, when i read it, i thought it was serious. as in a mild suspicion, as good of one as you can get that early on.)

your response later calling her scummy for it, supporting her wagon without taking a firm stance on it, is opportunistic as well as dissonant. she was getting worked up, you threw out a stance on umbrage, supporting her, she got more worked up, and then you pointed in her direction and let others attack her.

your analysis of her in 24 makes your post 14 look like less of a random reaction test, and more of a way to set up someone who was reacting strongly to mild pressure.

when you made your post 14, did you have any genuine suspicion of umbrage, even if it was mild?

why is riss scummy for being suspicious of umbrage? does defensive and/or omgus nature only occur with scum?

Heres what i see when i come into the game: a lot of pressure on one person, who got mad at being targeted quick. this person is an easy target and is probably not gf due to poe. so who reacted to her in an opportunistic way? you did.

[Eidolon]

I could be reading into it too much. idk. i'll take a breather on it and then come back and evaluate again.

[Zoidberg]

I never said you caused her reaction. I said that you instigated it. there is a big difference there.

Not really.

But because riss was already being defensive about umbrage, which isn't an affiliation tell in and of itself, it seems natural for her to take your post seriously. (hell, when i read it, i thought it was serious. as in a mild suspicion, as good of one as you can get that early on.)

If Riss isn't actually a newbie then getting defensive on page 1 of a game

can definitely be

an alignment tell.

your response later calling her scummy for it, supporting her wagon without taking a firm stance on it, is opportunistic as well as dissonant.

Hahaha, her "wagon" consists of exactly one vote, and the fact that you don't agree with my opinion doesn't make it "cognitive dissonance" just because you want it to be.

she was getting worked up, you threw out a stance on umbrage, supporting her, she got more worked up,

You're making it sound like she had a breakdown.

and then you pointed in her direction and let others attack her.

Who cares? She's got people like you to defend her voraciously. Why so tenacious?

your analysis of her in 24 makes your post 14 look like less of a random reaction test, and more of a way to set up someone who was reacting strongly to mild pressure.

You and I have

very

different definitions of what constitutes a strong reaction.

when you made your post 14, did you have any genuine suspicion of umbrage, even if it was mild?

Of course not. It was the first page of the game.

why is riss scummy for being suspicious of umbrage?

Don't put words into my mouth. That is not what I said.

Heres what i see when i come into the game: a lot of pressure on one person, who got mad at being targeted quick.

You and I have

very

different definitions of what constitutes "a lot of pressure" and "getting mad".

gf due to poe.

????????????

so who reacted to her in an opportunistic way? you did.

[Eidolon]

oh wow. your response was really bad. but luckily for you i'm going to sleep now.

[Zoidberg]

oh wow. your response was really bad. but luckily for you i'm going to sleep now.

I'm quaking in my boots.

[Umbrage]

Umbrage, could riss not be reacting that way towards your read because he's a newb who is not used to being called scum? What distinguishes him from being newb scum rather than newb town?

I usually have a pretty accurate read on newbtown vs. newbscum. It's a difference in tone, mainly. Look at charter's posts. There's a natural rhythm there, like he's thinking as he's typing. Riss_ doesn't have that. It like she doesn't want to let her thoughts out onto the page. That weak attempt to misdirect onto charter is the worst bit.

I'm not impressed with Eidolon so far. Very weak arguments centred around one player, and one role: Riss_ and the GF. If Riss_ is scum, she's the GF and Eidolon's the goon. But I think Eidolon could be scum without Riss_ being scum. It actually would be brilliant if she was the GF, keep reminding us that the GF isn't going to be doing anything risky while going out on a huge limb. It's what I would do.

And I also don't like the change in tone between her last two posts. She gives herself a backdoor from a Zoidberg wagon, and then makes a vague threat when he responds.

So I like an Eidolon/Riss_ scumteam, or maybe an Eidolon/charter team. I could also see a Zoidberg/charter scumteam. No other teams make sense from my POV.

[Umbrage]

Umbrage, could riss not be reacting that way towards your read because he's a newb who is not used to being called scum? What distinguishes him from being newb scum rather than newb town?

I usually have a pretty accurate read on newbtown vs. newbscum. It's a difference in tone, mainly. Look at charter's posts. There's a natural rhythm there, like he's thinking as he's typing. Riss_ doesn't have that. It like she doesn't want to let her thoughts out onto the page. That weak attempt to misdirect onto charter is the worst bit.

I'm not impressed with Eidolon so far. Very weak arguments centred around one player, and one role: Riss_ and the GF. If Riss_ is scum, she's the GF and Eidolon's the goon. But I think Eidolon could be scum without Riss_ being scum. It actually would be brilliant if she was the GF, keep reminding us that the GF isn't going to be doing anything risky while going out on a huge limb. It's what I would do.

And I also don't like the change in tone between her last two posts. She gives herself a backdoor from a Zoidberg wagon, and then makes a vague threat when he responds.

So I like an Eidolon/Riss_ scumteam, or maybe an Eidolon/charter team. I could also see a Zoidberg/charter scumteam. No other teams make sense from my POV.

[Eidolon]

I'm not impressed with Eidolon so far. Very weak arguments centred around one player, and one role: Riss_ and the GF. If Riss_ is scum, she's the GF and Eidolon's the goon. But I think Eidolon could be scum without Riss_ being scum. It actually would be brilliant if she was the GF, keep reminding us that the GF isn't going to be doing anything risky while going out on a huge limb. It's what I would do.

And I also don't like the change in tone between her last two posts. She gives herself a backdoor from a Zoidberg wagon, and then makes a vague threat when he responds.

So I like an Eidolon/Riss_ scumteam, or maybe an Eidolon/charter team. I could also see a Zoidberg/charter scumteam. No other teams make sense from my POV.

nah, zoidberg is scum. i'm not sure who his partner is yet, but it's probably not riss. look at how he responded to my posts. he didn't even respond to the argument, he just picked at my word choice.

he was avoiding the argument while responding to every single thing as an attempt to sound like he's making a point. that's sooo scummy.

think about it. riss is probably town. her posts seem like a normal reaction for someone getting targeted first for something small. everyone jumped on her for getting defensive about you. zoidberg put an fos on you, and then he started sheepishly saying that riss was scummy, in as neutral of a way as possible, when asked about it.

that is too opportunistic to be town.

how are my arguments weak? look at how zoidberg responded. All he does is say "well we don't agree on this or that word choice" without even attacking the argument.

if i was the gf i wouldn't be bringing attention to finding that role. gf's would probably either be bussing their buddy or trying not to piss anyone off.

so it's likely zoidberg with charter or umbrage. i'm not sure which of you yet.

it's possible that riss is goon and one of charter/umbrage are busing her, but riss really seems town and zoidberg seems like scum.

[Zoidberg]

nah, zoidberg is scum. i'm not sure who his partner is yet, but it's probably not riss. look at how he responded to my posts. he didn't even respond to the argument, he just picked at my word choice.

I responded to the argument by way of dismissing it as stupid and baseless. Your word choice was very relevant because a) I didn't understand some of what you wrote and b) you are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill in an attempt to make a complete non-issue seem like a huge turning point in the thread and therefore paint me as scum.

I'll ask again since you ignored it the first time: Why are you defending Riss so tenaciously?

zoidberg put an fos on you

You are lying. That is not town motivated. Please quote where I put an FOS on anyone.