Player Slot and Game Census

[zoraster]

no. i think there's demand for certain Large Themes.

[TheButtonmen]

Certain? As in certain mods? Certain sizes? Certain themes?

I'm not trying to be deliberately obtuse here but from what I can see in the Queue we aren't exactly faced with crowds of people chomping at the bit to play a LT.

[Xalxe]

Mods moreso than themes, I'd say.

[callforjudgement]

At least in my case, I've started modding games simply to meet demand. I needed to do one mini normal to get mod experience (and actually, that rule exists to meet player demand for mini normals and opens), and since then, I've done an Open that had many players begging me to run it in MD (and a bunch of pre-ins), and am about to mod a Micro Normal because people have been asking for more of those.

I think it'd make a lot of sense to have an MD thread where players talk about the sort of games they'd like to be run, and if a theme gets popular enough, mods looking for something to do go and run it. This would solve at least two problems neatly, I think. (I can mod two games at once now, and will if it turns out to be necessary. And I'd rather mod a setup because people want it run, rather than trying to guess what players would want; and I don't mind waiting in any of the queues to do it.)

[zoraster]

Well, both. I think it sometimes seems like the same mods get the majority of attention in part because they tend to be the ones that come up with the most interesting themes. That said, when it comes to theme games, it's often an issue of a lot of time and effort, so you want to trust that the mod put the time and thought in.

I think that's fine, CFJ, but I don't think the best theme games tend to be player sourced. Rather, they are moderator sourced. But that may in part be due to my focus not on material from fiction or whatever but rather differences in mechanics.

[callforjudgement]

Yeah, most of the themes I'm thinking about are "mechanically different" themes, rather than "this source material" themes. The two combine pretty easily, though. If someone gives me a flavour theme I know a lot about, you could make pretty much any setup fit the theme, although some would work better than others.

[LlamaFluff]

LT player count is down simply because of games being down as well. Most games fill fast, usually problems there only show up when its a mod that players dont trust, the game is too large, or a very bad theme/mechanic. There have been quite a few games that just opened for signups, but there was at least a week before with no games hitting the queue.

For "what makes a good theme" tends to be along the line of something the mod likes, and is popular with quite a few players as well.

[zoraster]

well, that seems to lend credence to the idea that we don't have enough qualified mods.

[Vi]

well, that seems to lend credence to the idea that we don't have enough qualified mods.

I'm not sure I agree.

To get an estimate of how many L.Theme-qualified mods there are, what about counting the last six months' worth of L.Normal and M.Theme mods, and then adding a few for the people who have run two Opens, etc.?

[zoraster]

well does the absolute number matter? if we're not getting enough games, we don't have enough mods.

[Vi]

well does the absolute number matter? if we're not getting enough games, we don't have enough mods.

But we're answering why there aren't enough mods.

[zoraster]

but your response is essentially that there are a lot of qualified mods out there but they aren't modding, correct?

[Ythan]

Is there a barrier preventing would-be (desirable) mods from starting games? That would be a problem worth discussing. Otherwise this just feels like one end of the too-few-players/too-few-mods oscillation.

[Vi]

but your response is essentially that there are a lot of qualified mods out there but they aren't modding, correct?

Essentially. And I see how that leads to your point; whether the answer is "overhaul the system so we can have more mods" is something different.

[zoraster]

yes. it's the experience requirement combined with the fact that micros don't provide experience.

[Ythan]

How does the benefit of the experience requirement weigh against the harm?

[Vi]

yes. it's the experience requirement combined with the fact that micros don't provide experience.

If we have a lot of mods who are eligible to run games that just aren't for some reason, that doesn't mean the experience requirement is a problem.

[Vi]

Also @zoraster: I'm modding a L.Theme right now. Where's yours?

[zoraster]

How does the benefit of the experience requirement weigh against the harm?

It's a good question, but I think we can help it by readjusting how we give experience a little. Alternatively, relax requirements somewhat to allow co-modding or something.

[zoraster]

yes. it's the experience requirement combined with the fact that micros don't provide experience.

If we have a lot of mods who are eligible to run games that just aren't for some reason, that doesn't mean the experience requirement is a problem.

Actually, it does. If we had more people with experience, we'd have more large themes. If the % of qualified mods who run a large theme has reduced from 5% to 2%, you still get more mods by increasing the raw number qualified even if the % stays low (which it would not necessarily, since it's possible that newer mods will be more excited and fresh).

Also @zoraster: I'm modding a L.Theme right now. Where's yours?

Forthcoming! But I have things to talk to you about first.

[Vi]

yes. it's the experience requirement combined with the fact that micros don't provide experience.

If we have a lot of mods who are eligible to run games that just aren't for some reason, that doesn't mean the experience requirement is a problem.

Actually, it does. If we had more people with experience, we'd have more large themes. If the % of qualified mods who run a large theme has reduced from 5% to 2%, you still get more mods by increasing the raw number qualified even if the % stays low (which it would not necessarily, since it's possible that newer mods will be more excited and fresh).

True. But does that mean that our system is broken? is that something we

should

do? I don't see this as a crisis.

Also @zoraster: I'm modding a L.Theme right now. Where's yours?

Forthcoming! But I have things to talk to you about first.

But you see my point.

[zoraster]

True. But does that mean that our system is broken? is that something we should do? I don't see this as a crisis.

It may be premature, but yes. It's something we should probably consider if it keeps up.

[Ythan]

There will almost always be either too many players or too many mods. There is no general policy anyone is going to come up with that will balance this perfectly and permanently. It's natural.

[SleepyKrew]

There will almost always be either too many players or too many mods.

Back in the day...

[zoraster]

Okay, but we have a fairly easy source for mods: they're our players. Less so for players. Just because there will be a choke point at some point in the system doesn't mean we shouldn't try to reduce that choke point even if it means another one occurs. And I'd rather see the choke point be that we don't have enough players than we don't have enough mods.

Let's say we're making widgets. And they require 2 steel and 1 plastic. Right now we have 20 steel and 30 plastic every month coming in, so we're able to produce 10 widgets. Let's say we could open up a steel factory that would give us 80 more steel per month, for 100 total. If we did that, the choke point would be the plastic suddenly. But we're able to produce 30 widgets instead of 10, so despite the fact there was a choke point, we're still doing better.