Fall of the Matrix: Game Over!

[Amrun]

Primate:

Why is self-voting indicative of town?

What do you think of my case on Toon Fighter?

What do you think of the case(s) made on Medicated Lain?

[ReaperCharlie]

Howdy. Looks like I'll be replacing fuzzylightning.

I may or may not be able to go back and read the thread in very much depth; if there's anything substantial that I should know about the setup or any players, I would like it if someone could inform me succinctly and clearly.

But if all I missed is two weeks of RVS... well, w00t.

[Amrun]

You didn't. Stuff has happened.

Here's a summary:

-vezok claimed VT out of the gate. Cue lots of fucking arguing about this.
-Toon Fighter is scum. ISO me for a full case.
-Several people suspect Surye.
-Several people suspect Medicated Lain.
-Furcolow active lurked and is a leading wagon that recently claimed VT.

You should read, though.

[Toon Fighter]

Hey. I don't trust Furc's claim and I think we should lynch him anyway. Vezo also claimed 'nilla and that only motivated people to lynch him (and other people not to lynch him, but you know that, it was most of our D1 discussion).

We now have 2 D1 vanilla claims. We should lynch one of them, otherwise we risk outing a power role. Furc has been acting scummier than Vez the entire game. His pseudo vote on himself is garbage, he didn't even unvote, and our mod is very strict about it. I say we go forward with Furc lynch.

[vezokpiraka]

WOW. RC is in this game.

I think you missed that I am in this game RC.

[SensFan]

@Sensfan: Who do you think is likely to be scum outside of Furc?

I don't have any strong scumreads besides Furc. I'm not sure it matters a ton at this juncture, since I don't see a scenario where I vote someone other than vezok/Furc today.

[AGar]

@Yos

Care to grace 628 with a response? I put, like, a whole 10 minutes into that post yesterday morning. (But seriously, I responded to what seemed like a pointed line in it, expected a response to something like that).

[Medicated Lain]

How do you feel about Toon Fighter? What's your read on him, ML? I noticed you completely forgot that part of your comment on my case on TF, and if either of you should flip scum, this will become a chainsaw.

I didn't forget to comment on him, I just didn't find him that scummy honestly. I was noting your case because it felt like you were pushing a lot against TF, and that last section of your post really felt like pushing something that wasn't really even there, which seemed a bit scummy.

Since you mentioned Toon Fighter though, I did an ISO on him, which lead me to the earlier case of Deathnote too, which I also didn't understand. Generally I prefer to find my own logic rather than arguing with other people, and since nothing had quite stood out to me there at the time, I just went back. I want to do this more with a few other players.. namely Surye, Internet Stranger, and Amrun. I will be working on that other the next few days.

As stated above though, Toon Fighter's attack on Death Note didn't seem that outrageous to me.. he stated a reason and clarified why he didn't agree with how Death Note went about that post. Death Note seemed to clean up later, and both of them don't give me any particular scum/anti scum readings.

Against Surye, I get that he used some pretty bad logic, and that's certainly worth looking at, but I just feel like that was too obvious of a bad thing for someone to do if they were honestly scum. Tomorrow I will take a look at the case on him more in depth.

Currently, I still think AGAR is the #1 choice for scum. Tomorrow I will reiterate my points, and see what everyone thinks. Short version: The paranoid aggressive "everyone must die" switching around with lack of logic, is too much.

Furcolow is #2.. on my list at the moment. I don't even understand why he claimed when he did, and it just made me hit my head with frustration. The rampant changing of votes with no information as to why, with lack of posting and now a useless claim at unnecessary feeling timing.. honestly as I say this, I feel I should be switching my vote. But I would like to go more in depth on AGAR tomorrow first.

[AGar]

Currently, I still think AGAR is the #1 choice for scum. Tomorrow I will reiterate my points, and see what everyone thinks. Short version: The paranoid aggressive "everyone must die" switching around with lack of logic, is too much.

Uhhh what? When did I go all "everyone must die"? Actually, there are people I wouldn't like to see die. Vezok. LF. Yos. IS. CES.

I've stated that {Furcolow, GummyBear, Surye, ABR, you} are the 5 scummiest of the bunch, and should die. 5 of 25.

Continue to flailllll.

[Internet Stranger]

Surye is still the scum. That is all.

[vezokpiraka]

Surye is still the scum. That is all.

[BrianMcQueso]

Sorry for the absence.

I'm still happy with my vote on Furcolow. His behavior still reads very scummy to me. He has a lot of OMGUS behavior and changes votes constantly. It seems like he's just trying to get anyone lynched and doesn't really believe in anything he's doing.

I don't understand the case on Surye. He voted for Vezok, which is justifiable given Vezok's play. The claims of his wagon-hopping are greatly exaggerated.

Every time someone says "X is blatantly town" "X is obviously town" I want to stab myself in the eye. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. You can't know for sure if someone is town on Day 1. And what's obvious to you may not be obvious to someone else. If someone disagrees with you, that doesn't automagically make them scum, or an idiot.

Agreeing with Porochaz: DeathNote's play has gotten worse over time.

At this point, if Vezok was going to be lynched, he'd be hanging. The case on him is nothing more than mere policy with a hint of "Well I don't like how he's playing, he's not intelligent." If people were going to be swayed, it would've happened by now. He's not going to die, the people who are against voting for Vezok aren't going to change their minds. It's fairly obvious that this was a mislynch that petered out, and as many people have said such, even people (like yourself) who were voting him noted there is a higher probability of him flipping town. This is a player that scum now need dead simply because he cannot be lynched. But killing him wastes a night-kill that could have been instead spent power-role hunting or eliminating stronger town players. Scum don't want to kill him, but they need him dead, as him being alive narrows the mislynch pool.

This is the first AGar post about Vezok that I (for the most part) agree with. A Vezok lynch probably isn't going to happen today at this point. If he is town, that makes him dangerous for the scum, but he's a suboptimal NK because of his claim. If Vezok is scum, though, that leaves him in a good spot.

Can someone recap the reasons for voting Surye for me? And I'm gonna need more than "Because IS says so"

[Amrun]

I also want a Surye re-cap. Never understood that case.

Re: DeathNote

I've mislynched him before and he basically always plays scummy. This is the most pro-town I've ever seen him play, though it's still frustrating.

I don't think he's scum because of how toon fighter attacked him so scummily.

[Patrick]

Vote Count #7:

Furcolow (8) - (SensFan, Porochaz, Toon Fighter, BrianMcQueso, Cogito Ergo Sum, AGar, Surye, creampuffeater)
Surye (3) - (Internet Stranger, vezokpiraka, Zindaras)
ToonFighter (1) - (Amrun)
Medicated Lain (3) - (LlamaFluff, Yosarian2, MrBuddyLee)
Zindaras (2) - (Albert B. Rampage, Furcolow)
vezokpiraka (1) - (GummyBear)
SensFan (1) - (Primate)
Bamboomancer (1) - (Kison)
AGar (1) - (Medicated Lain)
creampuffeater (1) - (HezLucky)

With 25 alive, it takes 13 to lynch.

ReaperCharlie is indeed replacing fuzzylightning. Thanks!

[Amrun]

What is the deadline?

[vezokpiraka]

unvote
vote Furcolow

You know what? The day is going for far too long and nobody is doing anything. If we get Surye to claim and we get a PR claim or a whatever claim people are going to be more frustrated.

[Internet Stranger]

Surye:

- Bad reasoning for the "me too" voting for Vezo right out of the start. (Claimed VT, thinks Vezo is horrible)
- Tried to get a cop to out themselves or waste a vote on Vezo Day 1.
- Constant rhetorical questions in place of content.
- String of excuses
- Jumps on the still awful Furc wagon. I find it curious that so many of the same people continue to jump on infamously easier lynches.
- Otherthan jumping on easy wagons, not much content. Doesnt have a strong commitment to any of them, isnt really looking for scum with any sort of intent. Classic definition of scum coasting.

I dont even want Surye to claim, he is simply scum.

[Surye]

Surye:

- Bad reasoning for the "me too" voting for Vezo right out of the start. (Claimed VT, thinks Vezo is horrible)
- Tried to get a cop to out themselves or waste a vote on Vezo Day 1.
- Constant rhetorical questions in place of content.
- String of excuses
- Jumps on the still awful Furc wagon. I find it curious that so many of the same people continue to jump on infamously easier lynches.
- Otherthan jumping on easy wagons, not much content. Doesnt have a strong commitment to any of them, isnt really looking for scum with any sort of intent. Classic definition of scum coasting.

I dont even want Surye to claim, he is simply scum.

Ugh, this is getting tired.

[vezokpiraka]

Surye:

- Bad reasoning for the "me too" voting for Vezo right out of the start. (Claimed VT, thinks Vezo is horrible)
- Tried to get a cop to out themselves or waste a vote on Vezo Day 1.
- Constant rhetorical questions in place of content.
- String of excuses
- Jumps on the still awful Furc wagon. I find it curious that so many of the same people continue to jump on infamously easier lynches.
- Otherthan jumping on easy wagons, not much content. Doesnt have a strong commitment to any of them, isnt really looking for scum with any sort of intent. Classic definition of scum coasting.

I dont even want Surye to claim, he is simply scum.

Ugh, this is getting tired.

unvote
vote surye

God. I odn't want this day to end. I want you dead. You are so scum. This is the only response on the case no you???

[Surye]

Surye:

- Bad reasoning for the "me too" voting for Vezo right out of the start. (Claimed VT, thinks Vezo is horrible)
- Tried to get a cop to out themselves or waste a vote on Vezo Day 1.
- Constant rhetorical questions in place of content.
- String of excuses
- Jumps on the still awful Furc wagon. I find it curious that so many of the same people continue to jump on infamously easier lynches.
- Otherthan jumping on easy wagons, not much content. Doesnt have a strong commitment to any of them, isnt really looking for scum with any sort of intent. Classic definition of scum coasting.

I dont even want Surye to claim, he is simply scum.

Ugh, this is getting tired.

unvote
vote surye

God. I odn't want this day to end. I want you dead. You are so scum. This is the only response on the case no you???

It's not a case. It's all been discussed. He's rehashing, it's nothing interesting, he's super tunneled, he talks about contentless posts, he's been posting the same thing all day over and over.

[Internet Stranger]

You can add derisive dismissals from Surye to the list, I forgot to mention that one.

[Internet Stranger]

Oh and of course, lets add the ol' time scummy Exhaustive Defense trick to Surye's list.

Thats where they ask for a case and evidence, then when its provided, they ask for more, when more is provided, they ask for more, until you run out of things to add and they jump up on the last item and say "See? its all just a bunch of rehash, its a weak case!".

Lawyers and scum do that all the time. I just refuse to fall for it. I dont see Surye defending himself. I dont see his explanation for his actions. I dont see him telling us what he has done for the town in terms of looking for the scum other than jumping on those silly bandwagons. What was his case on Furc again? Everyone else is doing it? Me? I think I found me some Day 1 scum, are those silly wagons on the most notorious players on the player list (Vezo and Furc) so overwhelmingly better? That doesnt seem suspicious to anyone else? It does to me!

Surye is your scum.

[BrianMcQueso]

@IS: The recap is much appreciated. The Surye vote seems legitimate, and his responses aren't doing much for his standing in my eyes. Nevertheless, I'm still happy with where my vote currently sites. Furcolow just screams scum with every post.

@Surye: IS is rehashing because

I asked him to

(post #661). Also requested by Amrun (#662).

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm caught up now, and I have a much higher percentage of being a town-aligned-PR than Vezokpiraka's 0%.

I am a vanilla townie, like Vezokpiraka has claimed

Furc, why'd you hint at possibly having a power role when you started getting in trouble?

[DeathNote]

Why the hell was I prodded when Bamboo hasn't posted for 14 freaking days! Where is his replacement?!?!?!?

Vote: Vez

I was stupid for ever taking my vote off him.

Fuc dying tonight would be much appreciated but who knows what the odds of that happening.

I'm caught up now, and I have a much higher percentage of being a town-aligned-PR than Vezokpiraka's 0%.

I am a vanilla townie, like Vezokpiraka has claimed

Furc, why'd you hint at possibly having a power role when you started getting in trouble?

I must not be seeing what you are seeing.

It is difficult to find scum when the same people post over and over. I know that I have kinda lurked for the past few days but it started because I have a difficult time wrapping my head around what the active people are talking about. I dont see the Surye case but the people who find him scummy, I think are town. So... I suppose I approve of his lynch. After Vez of course.