Fall of the Matrix: Game Over!

[BrianMcQueso]

ABR

: Just because you claim vigilante does not mean you know who is scum. And if you go around killing people you disagree with instead of people who are likely to be scum (because there's a difference, you know), you're just going to be accelerating this game towards a loss.

ReaperCharlie

: You promised us reads, and yet all you do is still cover your own ass. And with straight WIFOM, too. Don't think it's anything other than that. I don't know if you honestly expected me to be convinced by 'Hey, I'm town, don't lynch me... because I'm town.' Die scum die.

Battousai

: I'm sorry that I don't have a grandmaster blueprint that accurately nails every other player's alignment based on the result of ReaperCharlie's alignment. My bad. Most people have an opinion of RC. Those who are defending him will have to defend themselves if he flips scum. How those players defend themselves will define Day 3. If RC flips town, we look at those suspecting him. We look carefully at their reasons for suspecting him, and that in turn drives Day 3's events. There is a lot of potential activity, there. If we don't lynch RC, then that potential is flushed, and people don't have to be held accountable for their actions and scum get to hide. That alone isn't enough justification to lynch RC, but combined with all the other terribly scummy behavior, RC is a great lynch for today.

LlamaFluff:

@ LF: I am a pro-town program, I am not a miller

All other pro-town programs should claim at this point like this.

No no no no no. No. Look at the vanilla townie PM. Vanillas are not "programs", and so "programs" are not vanilla. If you are seriously asking all the power roles to massclaim, then we should hang you where you stand.

FoS: LlamaFluff

[Albert B. Rampage]

ABR

: Just because you claim vigilante does not mean you know who is scum. And if you go around killing people you disagree with instead of people who are likely to be scum (because there's a difference, you know), you're just going to be accelerating this game towards a loss.

Let's retrace our steps:

I attack Zindaras Day 1, he comes back at me Day 2
I attack Medicated Lain Day 1, she comes back at me Day 2
I attack Internet Stranger Day 2, he comes back at me later Day 2

Toon Figther was a desperation vote so I wouldn't have to claim.

These are not people I "disagree with". These are villainous OMGUSers and scumbags. Especially IS who I have attacked long before he miserably failed to connect me to RC. I think one of Zindaras and ML is scum, but I am less sure than my IS scum read.

[BrianMcQueso]

ABR, I was objecting to the "follow my lead, bitches" attitude. Just because you're a claimed vig doesn't mean you're omnipotent. And I'm not faulting you for putting a bullet in vezok, I would've done the same. But given your aggressive play, I'm trying to deter you from becoming a trigger-happy vig that shoots anyone who disagrees with him and hurts the town rather than helping it.

[Albert B. Rampage]

ABR, I was objecting to the "follow my lead, bitches" attitude. Just because you're a claimed vig doesn't mean you're omnipotent. And I'm not faulting you for putting a bullet in vezok, I would've done the same. But given your aggressive play, I'm trying to deter you from becoming a trigger-happy vig that shoots anyone who disagrees with him and hurts the town rather than helping it.

It's more like "I am town and now you have to scumhunt instead of coasting with a vote on a confirmed town player."

But they are being lazy and policy lynching RC as far as I can tell.

[SensFan]

BMQ: Frankly, I don't really care how ABR decides on his shots, as long as he's shooting every Night.

ABR: The RC wagon started as Policy (for me, at least), but I think you should be able to read up on some of the later posts in the wagon to see the actual case on him. Besides, I'm a bit surprised to see you calling a PL "lazy."

[DeathNote]

ABR, I was objecting to the "follow my lead, bitches" attitude. Just because you're a claimed vig doesn't mean you're omnipotent. And I'm not faulting you for putting a bullet in vezok, I would've done the same. But given your aggressive play, I'm trying to deter you from becoming a trigger-happy vig that shoots anyone who disagrees with him and hurts the town rather than helping it.

It's more like "I am town and now you have to scumhunt instead of coasting with a vote on a confirmed town player."

But they are being lazy and policy lynching RC as far as I can tell.

Nothing this late is really policy. I find the lynch does have reasons but i feel the reasons are more because the player is poor town, not scum. Toonfighter is where the votes should be.

[Albert B. Rampage]

The guy hasn't posted any content, don't lie to me and say that you saw him scumslip. He's just a douche that doesn't participate in discussion, and everyone piles their vote on him for an easy lynch.

[Albert B. Rampage]

If I was not confirmed town right now, everyone would be like "SCUMBUDDY", no I am not, those are the facts. Porochaz has done the same to a lesser degree.

[DeathNote]

In no way was I condoning his lynch. I am stating that his lynch is not really on policy. They lynch him for being a crappy town player which is not what town should do.

[Ranmaru]

I didn't really believe the slip to be anything solid, but I wanted to lynch vezok no matter what, and I wasn't going to say that outright because people are pussies that are afraid of policy lynching.

I agree with Sensfan. Isn't this a bit hypocritical with your past beliefs?

[SensFan]

The guy hasn't posted any content, don't lie to me and say that you saw him scumslip. He's just a douche that doesn't participate in discussion, and everyone piles their vote on him for an easy lynch.

RC and Batt have both flat-out lied in this thread in their attempts to provide reasons for their continued lurking.

[Zindaras]

ABR

: Just because you claim vigilante does not mean you know who is scum. And if you go around killing people you disagree with instead of people who are likely to be scum (because there's a difference, you know), you're just going to be accelerating this game towards a loss.

Let's retrace our steps:

I attack Zindaras Day 1, he comes back at me Day 2
I attack Medicated Lain Day 1, she comes back at me Day 2
I attack Internet Stranger Day 2, he comes back at me later Day 2

Toon Figther was a desperation vote so I wouldn't have to claim.

These are not people I "disagree with". These are villainous OMGUSers and scumbags. Especially IS who I have attacked long before he miserably failed to connect me to RC. I think one of Zindaras and ML is scum, but I am less sure than my IS scum read.

Zindaras FoSes Albert: Posted May 3rd.
Albert votes Zindaras: Posted May 11th.

Get your facts right. As far as Lain goes, you didn't "attack" her. You put a complete and utter crap vote on her, then go berserk when she calls you on it. Now

that

is OMGUS.

Sigh. You're a Vig, ABR. Go along and help us lynch RC today, then tonight you can kill whoever the hell you want, and then brag tomorrow that you were right about RC if he flips Town. Deal?

This is such a horrible post I can't believe I'd find worse.

BMQ: Frankly, I don't really care how ABR decides on his shots, as long as he's shooting every Night.

But I did.

[Ranmaru]

ABR, I was objecting to the "follow my lead, bitches" attitude. Just because you're a claimed vig doesn't mean you're omnipotent. And I'm not faulting you for putting a bullet in vezok, I would've done the same. But given your aggressive play, I'm trying to deter you from becoming a trigger-happy vig that shoots anyone who disagrees with him and hurts the town rather than helping it.

It's more like "I am town and now you have to scumhunt instead of coasting with a vote on a confirmed town player."

But they are being lazy and policy lynching RC as far as I can tell.

Nothing this late is really policy. I find the lynch does have reasons

but i feel the reasons are more because the player is poor town, not scum

. Toonfighter is where the votes should be.

Can you explain how that is so? (In the bold)

[SensFan]

Sigh. You're a Vig, ABR. Go along and help us lynch RC today, then tonight you can kill whoever the hell you want, and then brag tomorrow that you were right about RC if he flips Town. Deal?

This is such a horrible post I can't believe I'd find worse.

BMQ: Frankly, I don't really care how ABR decides on his shots, as long as he's shooting every Night.

But I did.

Meh. I know ABR has an above-average scumdar. And I also know that I wouldn't be able to change his mind about his Vig shots even if I wanted to. So really, as long as he's shooting every Night, I'm happier with that arrangement than I would be with an unknown Vig.

[Internet Stranger]

If I was not confirmed town right now, everyone would be like "SCUMBUDDY", no I am not, those are the facts. Porochaz has done the same to a lesser degree.

...confirmed? Really? Who confirmed you? (other than you saying so)

[SensFan]

He's confirmed for the time being, unless someone counterclaims the Vezok kill, IS.

[Internet Stranger]

Right, because a real Neo should out himself right now, cant imagine him being important or anything.

Tell me SensFan, since youre the leader of the Albert Fan Club, how exactly does Albert plan on not being killed by the scum tonight? Why would a vig out himself in the middle of the day and under no direct threat when he would be more useful sniping whoever he wishes from the shadows? Wouldnt your favorite buddy Albert, who you yourself said "Has the mightiest scumdar of all" be more helpful to the town by eliminating scum with vig kills?

Why would Albert, if he is as awesome as you say he is, blow his wad just to get at me? Am I that big of a threat? Is trying to get me lynched worth so much more than just shooting me tonight, AND getting to shoot all sorts of other scum as the day progresses? (Nice kill on that evil scum Vezo, btw, great way to be town motivated and not just some wackjob taking out people Albert just doesnt like).

Doesnt sound very town motivated to me SensFan. How about YOU explain his behavior to me then?

At least youre voting for Charlie, Sens, otherwise I would find your gobble job on Albert rather peculiar.

[MrBuddyLee]

Most people have an opinion of RC. Those who are defending him will have to defend themselves if he flips scum. How those players defend themselves will define Day 3. If RC flips town, we look at those suspecting him. We look carefully at their reasons for suspecting him, and that in turn drives Day 3's events.

If that's how you think scum should be found, how come you haven't done this for the Day One wagons/flips?

[BrianMcQueso]

If that's how you think scum should be found, how come you haven't done this for the Day One wagons/flips?

Last time I checked, I was currently voting and been spending most of my effort towards lynching ReaperCharlie, the player who hammered the last wagon with no explanation and who has still not provided any information on his methods, reads, or opinions of any other players in the game.

How do you find scum, MrBuddyLee?

[Zindaras]

Right, because a real Neo should out himself right now, cant imagine him being important or anything.

Tell me SensFan, since youre the leader of the Albert Fan Club, how exactly does Albert plan on not being killed by the scum tonight? Why would a vig out himself in the middle of the day and under no direct threat when he would be more useful sniping whoever he wishes from the shadows? Wouldnt your favorite buddy Albert, who you yourself said "Has the mightiest scumdar of all" be more helpful to the town by eliminating scum with vig kills?

Why would Albert, if he is as awesome as you say he is, blow his wad just to get at me? Am I that big of a threat? Is trying to get me lynched worth so much more than just shooting me tonight, AND getting to shoot all sorts of other scum as the day progresses? (Nice kill on that evil scum Vezo, btw, great way to be town motivated and not just some wackjob taking out people Albert just doesnt like).

Doesnt sound very town motivated to me SensFan. How about YOU explain his behavior to me then?

At least youre voting for Charlie, Sens, otherwise I would find your gobble job on Albert rather peculiar.

I'm sorry, IS, but there's an even stronger argument for him not doing it as SK.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

You don't claim Neo as SK when you don't have to claim.

[Yosarian2]

But they are being lazy and policy lynching RC as far as I can tell.

Albert, read RC's posts since the hydra thing started. Read Battousai's posts.

If they were town, I would expect them to be doing better then this. Last time I played a game with RC, he was one of the stronger pro-town players in the game (in fact, I suggested we recruit him into my cult for that reason, heh), and we both know what a strong player Battousai is when he's town.

This isn't a policy lynch. This is a "If they were town, they would probably be making better posts then this" lynch.

[MrBuddyLee]

Last time I checked, I was currently voting and been spending most of my effort towards lynching ReaperCharlie, the player who hammered the last wagon with no explanation and who has still not provided any information on his methods, reads, or opinions of any other players in the game.

Have you mentioned the Surye hammervote as a part of your case on ReaperCharlie? I can't find it. In your two posts discussing ReaperCharlie before you voted him, you only mention his inactivity. After you vote him, it continues:

Listen, I'm not looking to lynch a lurker on Day 2. We've got better leads to follow. But your behavior is just so damn scummy! There's a difference between someone who's inactive, and someone who is very active but not contributing.

And again June 2:

I am still happy with my RC vote, and he just seems to be rubbing his uselessness in our face now. If RC is town, he's hurting the town. If he's scum, he's getting away with ridiculous lurking in plain sight.

and again June 3:

My only hope at this point is for RC's hydra buddy to pull some worth out of that player slot, but that doesn't seem to be happening either.

Your new stated reason for voting RC--being the hammer vote on the Surye-wagon--sounds like a retrofit. I don't feel like you've made the least bit of effort to find the scum that pushed the Surye wagon, let alone the ones that pushed the vez-wagon.

The hammer vote four hours before deadline, with the vote count standing at 12-8, is a possible scum move. The guy didn't even provide a reason. However, it appeared to be a lynch that was happening anyway. I would more expect scum to let someone else hammer that wagon down, especially if Furcolow is town. Are you saying he hammered because he was protecting his scumpartner Furcolow? If so, why haven't you used that as evidence, why are you so ambivalent about Furcolow, and why didn't you go after Furcolow to start today?

Who do you see as the most likely scum votes on the Surye and vez wagons? You haven't discussed that at all despite your hyperbole, which is my point in calling you out.

How do you find scum, MrBuddyLee?

By looking for people whose actions don't add up. ReaperCharlie is a possibility--he clearly doesn't give a shit about finding scum. But regardless of his alignment, your words don't really seem to match your actions, and it feels like you're posturing, so I want to know more.

@McQueso

, what do you think of Porochaz?

[Yosarian2]

You don't claim Neo as SK when you don't have to claim.

Also, if you're a SK, you don't shoot the VI who claimed vanilla and then almost got lynched on day 1. You would rather shoot pretty much anyone else, town OR scum.

[Zindaras]

You don't claim Neo as SK when you don't have to claim.

Also, if you're a SK, you don't shoot the VI who claimed vanilla and then almost got lynched on day 1. You would rather shoot pretty much anyone else, town OR scum.

That's such BS. The Vezok wagon was long dead. It barely got to half the required lynch total. A significant part of the town thought he was town. Vezok wasn't going to get lynched any time soon.

Also, seriously, the general naivety here is just astounding. The role doesn't confirm him. It could easily be a fake claim provided by the mod (I'm not sure if that's standard here, but it's standard in my games, especially flavour-heavy ones like this) or it could be his actual role name. Do not fall into the Harry Potter Mafia trap (Harry, Ron and Hermione were Mafia and just rode their claims for a victory).

What makes him town is the fact that he just signed his own death warrant regardless of his alignment.