Mini 1141 - Frogs Mafia 2 - GAME, SET, MATCH

[mozamis]

no. see my last post.

[implosion]

I read the thread.

Unvote, Vote: Meransiel.

To put it simply, nothing Meransiel says has any logic.

Lurkers are likely scum, but people that don't post at all

can't be scum.

Strange thing to say, could be covering up for a scumbuddy who isn't posting - more importantly, though, it makes no logical sense.

Petro, you change your vote way too often. I'm not suspecting you or anything, it's just a risky thing to do.

Cause it's weird. And usually a scum tell.

I get that you aren't voting on this because you think pj is more town overall - but how is it relevant (or what do you mean) when you say that changing one's vote is "risky" or "weird?" It's day one, with 7 to lynch... I don't see how it's risky, at all, to change votes. In fact, I don't see why you would be concerned with something being "risky" in this way... the only way I can think of it being risky would be for mafia who want to avoid looking scummy. could you clarify this?

This

could

be code. Hmm...keeping my eyes on ye...

Why would you think that something like this is code? And if you're just speculating and there's no way to tell if it's really code, why bring it up at all?

Also, Meransiel's voting pattern is really weird. RVS vote, quickly changed to a vote based on a typo... which Meransiel still hasn't changed, despite accusing multiple other players of things that could be scummy. Meransiel, do you still fos mozamis more than other people, and if not why are you still voting her? If so, why?

mozamis is also scummy, and they would make sense as a pair, but I'm going to stay away from pair speculation before any flips. I don't think mozamis is as scummy as Meransiel, whose contributions all lack logic and who hasn't justified his vote with anything except for gut.

---

Other miscellaneous questions:

Referring to Truant's two votes in his first post:

well, this is the first weird/suspicious thing I've seen in this game.

Well, I think it COULD be indicative of alignment, but in this case, it probably isn't.

How can voting for two people be indicative of alignment? What logic is there behind that? It could be "strange" - however, how does strange equate in any way to scummy?

VOTE: Truant

I can tell already we're going to have problems this game.

What do you mean by this, exactly?

@blenblen, you have completely ignored moz and meransiel despite the fact that there was serious attention being paid to them by pretty much every active player. Why? Tell me what you think of each of them: scummy, or towny?

New with lots of fluff.

Why did you sidestep the question? The question was whether or not they're scummy or towny, not whether they're new or fluffposting.

This thread needs more kunkstar/magnetic/ender too, although I guess I'm not one to be complaining about lurking right now.

[Meransiel]

I read the thread.

Unvote, Vote: Meransiel.

To put it simply, nothing Meransiel says has any logic.

Lurkers are likely scum, but people that don't post at all

can't be scum.

Strange thing to say, could be covering up for a scumbuddy who isn't posting - more importantly, though, it makes no logical sense.

It was a probable certainty, not an absolute one. Voting for someone who has a 25% chance of being scum, not increased or decreased by any factors, is

worse

than RVS.

Petro, you change your vote way too often. I'm not suspecting you or anything, it's just a risky thing to do.

Cause it's weird. And usually a scum tell.

I get that you aren't voting on this because you think pj is more town overall - but how is it relevant (or what do you mean) when you say that changing one's vote is "risky" or "weird?" It's day one, with 7 to lynch... I don't see how it's risky, at all, to change votes. In fact, I don't see why you would be concerned with something being "risky" in this way... the only way I can think of it being risky would be for mafia who want to avoid looking scummy. could you clarify this?

I saw people die based on this reason alone. Basically, the mafia are struggling to do 2 things: be in the middle of wagons, and offend as few people as possible. Due to those reasons, they do tend to change votes a lot.

This

could

be code. Hmm...keeping my eyes on ye...

Why would you think that something like this is code? And if you're just speculating and there's no way to tell if it's really code, why bring it up at all?

Everything is speculating. Why are you bringing up that I am scum if the only way to tell is by killing me, which is defeating the purpose if I'm town?

You probably think that question is stupid and doesn't deserve an answer. Well, so is yours.

Also, Meransiel's voting pattern is really weird. RVS vote, quickly changed to a vote based on a typo... which Meransiel still hasn't changed, despite accusing multiple other players of things that could be scummy. Meransiel, do you still fos mozamis more than other people, and if not why are you still voting her? If so, why?

I found a reason or to to unvote, but not great reasons to vote someone else. Well, up to this point, now I have.

mozamis is also scummy, and they would make sense as a pair, but I'm going to stay away from pair speculation before any flips. I don't think mozamis is as scummy as Meransiel, whose contributions all lack logic and who hasn't justified his vote with anything except for gut.

Where did I say anything about gut?

Also,

Vote: scotsman12

for generally just agreeing with the most popular wagon, re-enforcing that in a way that really doesn't help discussion and all-around short posts.

[mozamis]

implosion suggests (rightly) that strange does not equate to scummy.
However, he then attacks Meransial on the grounds of being illogical.
I dont think being illogical equates necessarily to scumminess either.

So, implosion, why is being strange not scummy- but being illogical is?
My conclusion: Implosions case on Meransial is in itself contradictory.

[Meransiel]

Actually, I don't think I have been illogical, rather, that I have not presented situations too clearly.

[implosion]

implosion suggests (rightly) that strange does not equate to scummy.
However, he then attacks Meransial on the grounds of being illogical.
I dont think being illogical equates necessarily to scumminess either.

So, implosion, why is being strange not scummy- but being illogical is?
My conclusion: Implosions case on Meransial is in itself contradictory.

The goal of the town: lynch mafia.
The goal of the mafia: lynch town.
The difference: the mafia know who they want to lynch. Because of this, it serves their purpose to deform their logic in such a way that they can push on people that they know are their enemies, whereas members of the town have no reason to do so and will push on whoever they think is mafia.
Neither town nor mafia have any inherent reason to act strangely, therefore it isn't a tell.

It was a probable certainty, not an absolute one. Voting for someone who has a 25% chance of being scum, not increased or decreased by any factors, is

worse

than RVS.

The way you phrased it initially was definitely as if it was an absolute certainty. "can't be scum" rather than "are no scummier than others" implies certainty.

I saw people die based on this reason alone. Basically, the mafia are struggling to do 2 things: be in the middle of wagons, and offend as few people as possible. Due to those reasons, they do tend to change votes a lot.

I wasn't asking you why waffling is a scumtell, and I agree that it is... I was asking you what you meant by petroleumjelly's vote being "risky."

Everything is speculating. Why are you bringing up that I am scum if the only way to tell is by killing me, which is defeating the purpose if I'm town?

You probably think that question is stupid and doesn't deserve an answer. Well, so is yours.

Yes, everything is speculation - however, there are differences between grounded speculations and ungrounded speculations. You saying that this post was code is ungrounded, in that there's no way to tell either way and there's no reason to think it was. Me saying that you are scum is grounded in that you are acting scummy, and are continuing to act scummy. If I were to say that you bolding the word "worse" in your previous post was evidence of coded messages, you'd rightfully call me illogical and scummy.

Where did I say anything about gut?

Post 50.

[mozamis]

Posting illogically is not a scumtell.

[implosion]

Even though I just explained why it is?

[Meransiel]

Point 1: if I am oh so willing to act anti-town and not vote someone that doesn't post, why did I forfeit said advantage by asking the mod to prod him?
Point 2: I know I did not express myself very well with that post about probability. I did clarify though in later posts, check them.
Point 3: no, just as something can look scummy, something else can look like code. How am I worse from the people that bash nacho for his obviously role-impaired posts?

[Meransiel]

Point 4: I was condemning my vote in 50 with that remark. That's why I changed it to scotsman later on, anyway. I never rely on gut to effectively lynch, just had no options at that time.

[Meransiel]

Edit: ignore the nacho bit, posting on the phone, got 2 games confused.

[Amrun]

Meransial, why answer a question directed at me?

Implosion, I find that people who make lots of votes and FoS (especially in the same post) tend to be scum trying to lay suspicion trails so they can hop on opportunistic wagons and say "Oh, but I FoSed him day 2! I always thought he was suspicious."

It depends on the situation and in that case I don't think it applies but it warranted a question to verify.

[implosion]

Hm.

Magnetic (parknourie alt) deactivated.

Mod, this is probably gonna require a replacement.

Point 1: if I am oh so willing to act anti-town and not vote someone that doesn't post, why did I forfeit said advantage by asking the mod to prod him?
Point 2: I know I did not express myself very well with that post about probability. I did clarify though in later posts, check them.
Point 3: no, just as something can look scummy, something else can look like code. How am I worse from the people that bash nacho for his obviously role-impaired posts?

1) Mafia need to look like town too so that they themselves don't get lynched. Doing something and then saying you can't be scum because you did it means nothing.
2) In which post did you explain

specifically

what you meant by the word "risky" or respond to my original comment on that post? I don't see it.
3) I can justify my scumtell on you with evidence. Can you justify your reading that post as code? All you said was that he repeated some word or something... I don't see how that means anything.
4) No options? Really? What about all of the other people who had justified their votes on different people? Why were you somehow incapable of finding someone who you found legitimately scummy, or even just agreeing with what someone else had said?

[Shanba]

Magnetic has been banned from the site and I am currently seeking a replacement.

ender241 has requested replacement and will be replaced.

Vote Count:
4: mozamis

(Meransiel, OhGodMyLife, petroleumjelly, Amrun)

3: Meransiel

(Truant, scotmany12, implosion)

1: BlenBlen

(kunkstar7)

1: scotmany12

(ender241)

1: Truant

(BlenBlen)

1: petroleumjelly

(mozamis)
Not Voting:

Tuncali, MrBuddyLee

MrBuddyLee is replacing Magnetic. Checking for who needs prods and sending them out.

kunkstar7 and Tuncali are being prodded.

[Truant]

I like this implosion guy already <3

[kunkstar7]

Somehow you already made me dread reading pages >_>.

Thinking whatever you thought was code is stupid. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I don't see the merit in this ongoing discussion, it seems to be mostly pointless mafia theory that can be endlessly argued as fluff, and unless someone can prove effectively how believing one thing over another shows scum motivation in

this

game, going to regard it as such. Despite said stuff, Meriansel reads newtown. PJ reads clearly town.

Agree with scot's Post #99.

OGML's calling calling out of moz and Meriansel reads really weak to me.
@OGML you keep trying to get everyone to look at these two players, comment on them, and even have your vote on them, but you don't express any reason to do so (even if its just gut). What gives?

[MrBuddyLee]

I read my predecessor's post history and he looks like a total douchebag and obvious scum.

Hi, I'm replacing Magnetic. I replaced in because PJ asked me to and because Shanba is totally Shibby. Let's catch us some scum.

[petroleumjelly]

1.)

<3 yays MBL you better not be scum <3

2.)

scotmany12, why did you accuse mozamis of voting me for a “basically OMGUS” reason? kunkstar7, why do you apparently agree with that? Seems to me like mozamis’ vote was for the reasoning behind my Meransiel vote, if anything.

3.)

Meransiel, you said here:

Point 1: if I am oh so willing to act anti-town and not vote someone that doesn't post, why did I forfeit said advantage by asking the mod to prod him?

Exactly when did you ask Shanba to prod anybody? And who did you ask to be prodded?

By the way, I would not suggest lying to me when you respond to this.

[scotmany12]

Drunk post

2.)

scotmany12, why did you accuse mozamis of voting me for a “basically OMGUS” reason? kunkstar7, why do you apparently agree with that? Seems to me like mozamis’ vote was for the reasoning behind my Meransiel vote, if anything.

The reasoning seems horrible contrived. For one, he ignores the points of your post. You weren't attacking anyone for being patient, but attacking someone for making generalizations and acting more experienced than previously stated. Plus the over agressiveness statement is something I will always connect with OMGUS. I don't think there is a thing as being too aggressive, and I think it is a common reason scum will use when looking for a reason to discredit someone.

Also, this happened after I called it OMGUS so it doesn't really answer your question, but it is definitely worth pointing out to show the conradictio in mozamis's posting. He calls your reasoning for voting meranseil illogical. His last two post contains defenses about meransiel stating that posting illogically does not equate a scumtell. He posts:

This i find a bit TOO agressive, and as such, scummy. Trying to ridicule someone for wanting to be patient?

Illogical.

Plus a bit of "I'm experienced and you're a noob" from petrol.
None of which looks very town to me.

VOTE PETROLEUMJELLY

Then:

Posting illogically is not a scumtell.

So for pj posting illogically does not look like very town to him, while it's not a scumtell for meransiel.

I fully believe both of these two are scum. I will have no qualms with lynching either of them today. Took me way to long to write this.

[mozamis]

Even though I just explained why it is?

Townies make mistakes and post illogically. I've been in games where people have posted one opinion (eg lynch lurkers) then later on have said "hey lets not lynch that guy just cos he's lurking" etc
Maybe bad play. Maybe illogical. Maybe contradictory. Maybe "not good for town".
But not a scum tell.

[mozamis]

I read my predecessor's post history and he looks like a total douchebag and obvious scum.

Hi, I'm replacing Magnetic. I replaced in because PJ asked me to and because Shanba is totally Shibby. Let's catch us some scum.

lol when i replaced scum in another game i started off by saying something like this.

fos BUDDYLEE

[Truant]

I read my predecessor's post history and he looks like a total douchebag and obvious scum.

Hi, I'm replacing Magnetic. I replaced in because PJ asked me to and because Shanba is totally Shibby. Let's catch us some scum.

Did you read anything else?

[kunkstar7]

I read my predecessor's post history and he looks like a total douchebag and obvious scum.

Hi, I'm replacing Magnetic. I replaced in because PJ asked me to and because Shanba is totally Shibby. Let's catch us some scum.

lol when i replaced scum in another game i started off by saying something like this.

fos BUDDYLEE

When I replaced into a game as town, I started off by saying something similar to this.
FoS: No one.
You see how ridiculous this line of thinking is? What about that post makes it scummy at all?

[Shanba]

nopointinactingup replaces ender241

[MrBuddyLee]

I read my predecessor's post history and he looks like a total douchebag and obvious scum.

Hi, I'm replacing Magnetic. I replaced in because PJ asked me to and because Shanba is totally Shibby. Let's catch us some scum.

lol when i replaced scum in another game i started off by saying something like this.

fos BUDDYLEE

I read my predecessor's post history and he looks like a total douchebag and obvious scum.

Hi, I'm replacing Magnetic. I replaced in because PJ asked me to and because Shanba is totally Shibby. Let's catch us some scum.

Did you read anything else?

No, I didn't read at all, actually. I just checked the first post to see if I was in the right game, and to see if CrashTextDummie had also replaced in as PJ promised. I think PJ may have lied to me, or at least used weaselly legalese, but I'll stick around anyway. I also checked the little dropdown at the bottom of the page and saw my predecessor hadn't posted in this game yet, so I made a smart-ass comment to see who was paying attention. No one really noticed or at least commented on the fact that my predecessor never actually posted in this game. When I said I read his post history, I actually just checked his history outside this game to see why he got banned from the site.

So anyhow, I skimmed this game today and saw some mild protections and some illogical posts and some attacks on said illogical posts. And definitely some noob play--asking someone if they're the cop on the first page? Really? Kids these days.

fos mozamis omgus omgwtf

see i can throw acronyms around too.

I'll read the game more carefully tomorrow--I believe I have lots of free time to waste. Thank you, Shanba, for not making me scum. I look forward to nailing a few of these young Turks to the wall before summer dawns. Ribbit.