The MafiaScum Minecraft Thread - AllTheMods 9!!! - NEW Vanilla?

[Klazam]

I was looking at mshosting.com and being confused, lol.

[Rhinox]

so quiet in here lately...

what are you guys all doing for MJ's on the server? I've got a grand total of 1 stirling engine outputting 1MJ/t whenever I stick some coal in it - I think its about time I start working on something a little more proper. I'm gonna need something like at least 100MJ/t later on for some of the advanced bee machines I want to get into.

I'm kinda interested in a boiler/steam engine setup, because as I understand they can be setup fully automated and maintenance free, just set and forget. But they require a lot of resources to setup. I know there's magmatic engines, and I could always do biomass again or maybe even refine to biofuel/combustion. I just really need to start getting some power so I can quarry and charge my MPS.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'M COMING BACK TO FTB TOMORROW!!!!

[Maestro]

I'm kinda interested in a boiler/steam engine setup, because as I understand they can be setup fully automated and maintenance free, just set and forget. But they require a lot of resources to setup.

lolnotquite

Steam Boilers and Steam Engines (I'm assuming you mean the Railcraft versions, since the Thermal Expansion versions are exactly like Stirling Engines but 2 MJ/t) are EXTREMELY maintenance heavy unless you have some serious automation going on. And by that I mean "the kind of automation that is near-impossible without RP2 Pneumatic Tubes for insertion and extraction".

Steam Boilers require a substantial amount of Steel to even get crafted, and from then on it's just downhill.

When starting up, before reaching peak temperature and operating efficiency, a Steam Boiler (Low Pressure or High Pressure, it matters not) consumes about 9x the Coal/Coke it would when operating at peak temperature and operating efficiency. (I have no idea what the numbers look like on this, but it's something like a piece of Coal Coke every 15 seconds for 3-5 minutes or something ridiculous.) After that, yes, they produce a CONSIDERABLE amount of Steam to power Railcraft Steam Engines (or to input into some of the new Power Converters gadgetry we have) but they still require a sizable amount of fuel and, if left unattended without fuel for even a short amount of time, they will cool down and lose that peak temperature and operating efficiency - requiring the insane amount of fuel for a full restart.

AND in the meantime, better make sure it's hydrated from the get-go and NEVER loses water supply, because if it does the explosion that results has been compared to a mini-Nuclear Reactor going off in your base. Arguably, this is a negligible concern, but it's still something to think about.

Finally, to get much of ANYTHING out of your Boiler without Power Converters stuff directly sucking up the Steam, you'd need some Commercial or Industrial Steam Engines - another Steel-sucking item to look into. Better have a couple of Blast Furnaces handy because that is gonna take AWHILE (and a fuckton of Coal Coke). <3

I'd honestly suggest Factorization Mirror setups + Power Converters turning it into MJ/t. Uses up all that Silver and Lead you've probably got lying around, and it's the ONLY maintenance-free power available for MJ/t out there at the moment. (No, people: Lava doesn't count. I've had to move my pump 3 times already and it's a goddamn pain.)

[Rhinox]

Are forestry and turtles the only methods for say setting up a tree farm in our modpack?

[Maestro]

Minefactory Reloaded's Harvester should work fine, but is more difficult to get set up and working IMHO - but only because I find Turtles and MultiFarms are easy in general (Turtles maybe not-so-much)

[JacobSavage]

I have no idea how to work any of those...

[Maestro]

Jacob, I'll show you sometime

[JacobSavage]

You might need to hold on to that offer for a while...

I don't think I'll be able to get back online til september.

[Rhinox]

Well I'm probably going to look into factorization mirror thingees to get some power going but I still want to go for a boiler/steam engine setup for long term.

Steam boilers CAN be set up maintenance-free run for ever until infinity - there are posts on FTB forums of people who have done it. Yes its a TON to set up but not impossible. I've got a spreadsheet going with planning for what resources I need for everything I need to build to get it set up, but I'm still working out which infinite fuel source I can actually set up and use.

solid-fuel firebox can burn anything a furnace can, but the only worthwhile automated options (probably) are charcoal and lava buckets. Charcoal needs a set and forget tree farm - I think everyone on FTB forums uses Steve's carts for that but we don't have it. Forestry multifarms wouldn't be entirely set and forget because they need apatite which can't be automated. Turtles could probably work, using some of the charcoal produced to fuel them. Not sure how efficient it would be.

Lava buckets can be automated using TE stuff - igneous extruder making cobble > cobble burning in magma crucible > liquid transposer filling lavabuckets. Then its just a matter of feeding the full buckets into the firebox and shuffling the empty buckets back to the liquid transposer. It works because a lava bucket provides more energy burning in a boiler than it costs to make in TE.

In a liquid-fuel firebox, I think forestry biofuel is the only one that has potential to create automatic infinite production. But it would still be a challenge because I'm not sure I can automate infinite compost for fermenting.

Anyways, infinite automated fuel is pretty required for a boiler setup because as you pointed out they have to run constantly to be worth anything. I would accept required manual input, except then I can't chunkload them, and I can't guarentee others on the server won't chunkload them by proximity when I'm offline. And if they run out of fuel and cool down, then I have to go through the heatup process all over again. Right now the lava system is my best option and I kinda like it because it is expandable in a sort of pyramid fashion - the first boiler uses something like half its power just to keep the lava process going. The other half could be used to sustain enough lava production for 2 more boilers. Those 2 boilers could support 4 more boilers, etc until I'm just swimming in completely excessive MJ/t. I'll look into that MFR harvester though. Thats something I haven't looked into at all.

But like I said, long term plans. This week I want somewhat sustainable power and mirrors look cool. So thats my goal for this week. Solar farm FTW.

[Klazam]

Turtles could probably work, using some of the charcoal produced to fuel them. .

PSST Turtles dont need fuel on our server

[Rhinox]

oh well even better

[Maestro]

most infiniPower methods have been prevented by Mod authors using MATH and such but you can give that Lava/Steam thing a go...not sure it'll work out as you intend, but I'd definitely recommend Turtles or MultiFarms powering the Charcoal for a Solid-Fueled Firebox

also PSSST you'd need a Liquid-Fueled Firebox for Lava, js

[Rhinox]

also PSSST you'd need a Liquid-Fueled Firebox for Lava, js

Not unless the railcraft wiki is out of date

http://railcraft.wikispaces.com/Steam+Boiler+(Device)

Solid
•Nearly anything that burns in a Furnace may be used to feed a Solid Fuel Firebox.
•Bucket of Lava = 1000

Liquid
•Lava is not a valid liquid fuel, this is intentional.

[Maestro]

HMMM ODD

[EspeciallyTheLies]

RAILCRAFT IS STINKY

[Maestro]

TRAINCRAFT IS STINKY

FTFY

[Rhinox]

I'd honestly suggest Factorization Mirror setups + Power Converters turning it into MJ/t. Uses up all that Silver and Lead you've probably got lying around, and it's the ONLY maintenance-free power available for MJ/t out there at the moment. (No, people: Lava doesn't count. I've had to move my pump 3 times already and it's a goddamn pain.)

Been researching...

A max single ring solar farm holds 56 mirrors. That's 56 charge/t. According to documentation, that converts through power converters to 56 * 875/4375 = 11.2 MJ/t. Not all that impressive...

Because the solar boilers stack now though, some clever configurations can fill every block inside that ring with mirrors as well. Thats 240 mirrors total (I counted) in one farm, for 48 MJ/t. Better, but... those 240 mirrors still need 8 silver ingots per mirror (1920 ingots total, or 30 stacks).

Also, does power converters eat any of that up in the conversion process? And it only works during day? Does it shut down during rain as well?

Just as a comparison, one 36 block HP boiler and the 18 steam engines it would provide steam for would cost 312/360 steel ingots (< 6 stacks) depending on which firebox used, and would produce 144 MJ/t. Granted there are a lot of other resources involved along the way, and probably more time and complexity to the setup, but if I add the numbers of EVERY resource on my spreadsheet so far (even including what is required for a coke oven and blast furnace) I'm still only at 1158 total resources so far (and thats even double counting some things based on how the spreadsheet is setup).

I would need 3 full 240 mirror farms to get to the same 144 MJ/t output as a single boiler, which means I'm now up to needing 90 stacks of silver. I'm sure that would look pretty awesome but... Oh right I forgot. It only works during day. So if I wanted to truly match the output of 1 boiler, I'd want to double that again to 6 full 240 mirror farms, or 180 stacks of silver. 180 stacks of silver to match the output of a 36H steam boiler powering 18 industrial steam engines.


So umm... maybe its easy to set up and requires no maintenance but it seems to require a shitload more resources than boilers to match their output. What am I missing?

Actually I kinda wanna do it because all those mirrors would look awesome :p

[Maestro]

easy to set up and requires no maintenance

you're missing how important this is to some people - also the optimal Solar Turbine setup I tested on our server recently definitely got me more than 56 CZ/t and definitely netted more than 11 MJ/t - psure Blake can corroborate that

[Rhinox]

you're missing how important this is to some people

well steam turbines aren't necessarily hard to set up - and granted, I mentioned something about steam boilers and you recommended specifically to me to use factorization mirrors so what it matters to some people other than me doesn't really matter in this case.

and like I've been saying they can be set up to be maintenance free. I've read posts from people saying they have a community power plant running 24/7 on their server using nothing but steam boilers. And to me, quarries and storage systems are complex. If you guys can do that just fine, and I think boilers are NBD to set up then they can't be all that complex.

also the optimal Solar Turbine setup I tested on our server recently definitely got me more than 56 CZ/t and definitely netted more than 11 MJ/t - psure Blake can corroborate that

Here is the information I found:

1 unit of Charge per tick is produced for each active mirror with line of sight to the Solar Turbine if the sun is out.

http://feed-the-beast.wikia.com/wiki/Solar_Turbine

granted this is the old block that is dicontinued. I can't find the similar information for the solar boiler, but I assumed it was the same and only the block changed.

PowerConverters 2.x exchange rate is based on the cost to smelt a single item in a furnace. This cost is 70KW (or KJ depending on how you look at it) for UE, 390 EU for IC2, and 160MJ for ThermalExpansion (which I'm counting for BC because BC has no furnace, and ignoring TE's special furnace recipes that are cheaper than normal). There's no such thing as a steam furnace, but the Railcraft wiki says it's 5 steam per 1 MJ, so we'll assume a theoretical steam furnace would consume 800mB.

So, inverting those (and adding a x10 to get rid of most of the decimals), we get the ratios as follows:
•UE: 10

•IC2: 1800

•BC/TE: 4375

•Steam: 875

•FZ: 875
Note that Factorization was assigned based on its steam being equivalent with Railcraft's.

Now, it's entirely possible to find another mod with different ratios that when combined with PowerConverters will cause a positive feedback loop (i.e. infinite energy). UE in particular has some rather weird default ratios that basically guarantee this can happen. I will not treat this as a bug - if you don't want it to happen, change the numbers (see below). If you manage to cause an infinite energy scenario using just my stuff though that's definitely a bug, tell me.

If you think they're too good, or you think one of the power systems is too weak compared to the others, or you want to add a deliberate loss during conversion, just go to the config. You can change the input and output multipliers for all four power systems individually.

These values are applied as such:
outputQuantity = inputQuantity * inputScale / outputScale

So if you had 100 MJ to convert to EU, you'd get 100 * 4375 / 1800 = 243.05 (or probably 224 in reality, due to EU pulse rules).

http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/162 ... ever-stop/

[Maestro]

yes I know all that, I'm just sharing what I experienced in practice

also the Solar Boiler and Factorization Steam Turbine collectively replaced the Solar Turbine so the data may've also changed with that but I don't know

[Rhinox]

also the Solar Boiler and Factorization Steam Turbine collectively replaced the Solar Turbine so the data may've also changed with that but I don't know

yeah I couldn't find any information about that. All the factorization wiki's seem to be out of date. Some don't even have the update recipes for power conversion factorization blocks. Probably because FTB is still on 1.4.7 and most people are using those modpacks.

I'm probably going to experiment in creative mode at some point. I'll let you know what I find out, if anything.

[Maruchan]

I'm kinda interested in a boiler/steam engine setup, because as I understand they can be setup fully automated and maintenance free, just set and forget. But they require a lot of resources to setup.

lolnotquite

Steam Boilers and Steam Engines (I'm assuming you mean the Railcraft versions, since the Thermal Expansion versions are exactly like Stirling Engines but 2 MJ/t) are EXTREMELY maintenance heavy unless you have some serious automation going on. And by that I mean "the kind of automation that is near-impossible without RP2 Pneumatic Tubes for insertion and extraction".

Steam Boilers require a substantial amount of Steel to even get crafted, and from then on it's just downhill.

When starting up, before reaching peak temperature and operating efficiency, a Steam Boiler (Low Pressure or High Pressure, it matters not) consumes about 9x the Coal/Coke it would when operating at peak temperature and operating efficiency. (I have no idea what the numbers look like on this, but it's something like a piece of Coal Coke every 15 seconds for 3-5 minutes or something ridiculous.) After that, yes, they produce a CONSIDERABLE amount of Steam to power Railcraft Steam Engines (or to input into some of the new Power Converters gadgetry we have) but they still require a sizable amount of fuel and, if left unattended without fuel for even a short amount of time, they will cool down and lose that peak temperature and operating efficiency - requiring the insane amount of fuel for a full restart.

AND in the meantime, better make sure it's hydrated from the get-go and NEVER loses water supply, because if it does the explosion that results has been compared to a mini-Nuclear Reactor going off in your base. Arguably, this is a negligible concern, but it's still something to think about.

Finally, to get much of ANYTHING out of your Boiler without Power Converters stuff directly sucking up the Steam, you'd need some Commercial or Industrial Steam Engines - another Steel-sucking item to look into. Better have a couple of Blast Furnaces handy because that is gonna take AWHILE (and a fuckton of Coal Coke). <3

I'd honestly suggest Factorization Mirror setups + Power Converters turning it into MJ/t. Uses up all that Silver and Lead you've probably got lying around, and it's the ONLY maintenance-free power available for MJ/t out there at the moment. (No, people: Lava doesn't count. I've had to move my pump 3 times already and it's a goddamn pain.)

you also probably have your infinilava setup to run when it doesn't necessarily need to be, as well as wasting quite a bit of lava.

[Maruchan]

I'd honestly suggest Factorization Mirror setups + Power Converters turning it into MJ/t. Uses up all that Silver and Lead you've probably got lying around, and it's the ONLY maintenance-free power available for MJ/t out there at the moment. (No, people: Lava doesn't count. I've had to move my pump 3 times already and it's a goddamn pain.)

Been researching...

A max single ring solar farm holds 56 mirrors. That's 56 charge/t. According to documentation, that converts through power converters to 56 * 875/4375 = 11.2 MJ/t. Not all that impressive...

Because the solar boilers stack now though, some clever configurations can fill every block inside that ring with mirrors as well. Thats 240 mirrors total (I counted) in one farm, for 48 MJ/t. Better, but... those 240 mirrors still need 8 silver ingots per mirror (1920 ingots total, or 30 stacks).

Also, does power converters eat any of that up in the conversion process? And it only works during day? Does it shut down during rain as well?

Just as a comparison, one 36 block HP boiler and the 18 steam engines it would provide steam for would cost 312/360 steel ingots (< 6 stacks) depending on which firebox used, and would produce 144 MJ/t. Granted there are a lot of other resources involved along the way, and probably more time and complexity to the setup, but if I add the numbers of EVERY resource on my spreadsheet so far (even including what is required for a coke oven and blast furnace) I'm still only at 1158 total resources so far (and thats even double counting some things based on how the spreadsheet is setup).

I would need 3 full 240 mirror farms to get to the same 144 MJ/t output as a single boiler, which means I'm now up to needing 90 stacks of silver. I'm sure that would look pretty awesome but... Oh right I forgot. It only works during day. So if I wanted to truly match the output of 1 boiler, I'd want to double that again to 6 full 240 mirror farms, or 180 stacks of silver. 180 stacks of silver to match the output of a 36H steam boiler powering 18 industrial steam engines.


So umm... maybe its easy to set up and requires no maintenance but it seems to require a shitload more resources than boilers to match their output. What am I missing?

Actually I kinda wanna do it because all those mirrors would look awesome :p

http://forum.feed-the-beast.com/threads ... ncy.13506/

[Maruchan]

^for windows users, download config.zip, place in mafiacraft folder (by searching "mafiacraft" in the Start menu for Win7 and Win8 (if you have xp idk how the hell you're playing modded minecraft)) and unzip the file to that location.

Ok. Heres how to get the pack (1.1.1) working.

Open FTB launcher- Open options, look at the path to the MafiaCraft file it specifies download into. Use that information to find mafiacraft. Open it , go to mine craft, find the CONFIG folder. delete it.

Then download this link: http://www.mediafire.com/download/osdxo ... config.zip

PS

drive.google.com is a blessing for sharing files.