Cyclic Experimentation Set x01 - [Game Over]

[Parama]

Then I'm just going to ignore you

[popsofctown]

Rereading the game, I only see people asking "oh is it like an RL hot potato oooooh" and "Does it kill the person?" By then you've already passed it. More complex questions about the ability, ones that could even remotely seem related to intrafactional passes and spark the mod's memory that he forgot to clarify that point, don't come until page 2, when you've already passed it to Muh.

The mod didn't post a votecount until after you'd already passed the ability. It is possible though that he checked the thread somewhere near the bottom of page 1 and sent some pms though. I doubt it though. Muh would have been the one to receive a revised version of the role if it was a response to in-thread activity. He might have sent you the new version of the role pm just as a reference, but that's not exactly what you said, and, again, that possibility to makes the clause "for me" unlikely to appear in your post.

unvote, vote Parama

.
I certainly don't have a better place for my vote.

Muh, did you

[popsofctown]

EBWOP: The simplistic paraphrased questions WERE asked before he passed it. Complexer ones after.

[Parama]

I am not a wordsmith, but I did not ask the mod to clarify things for me - he did it himself. I don't give a damn what you think, it's retarded that you're trying to push this as a legitimate scumtell.

[Parama]

This game should get more active so muhscum explodes. It should be sometime soon, definitely by the end of this page. Get to it, people!

[Parama]

pops, what would I have to gain by saying "The mod clarified it without me asking him to" instead of "The mod clarified it with me asking him to"? I don't even see why this is a big deal.

[popsofctown]

I have a treestump ability. For today, I'm voteless and can't be lynched. I'm worried that if this survives to lylo, it could screw everything up if a townie has it. Or if a mafia member has it for that matter. However, mafia having it for one day wouldn't really affect anything.

While I believe you most likely have this ability, I don't think this speaks to your alignment whatsoever.

I don't understand why you automatically believe that this can't help the town though? Why can't you just pass it to the player you find most townie? This is very odd, implosion. I figured your ability was more along the lines of a suicide-bomber like thing, where, statistically, you'd probably end up killing yourself and another townie if you used it.

It's not a great ability, but I don't think it's uniformly anti-town. I can understand your point of view though, I think we just have an honest political disagreement over the power.

The existence of this ability is the equivalent of a dead townie in LyLo. Either this game goes to LyLo or we win without LyLo, so this ability is worth +1 living breathing townies.

In a 3 man lylo, if you give it to scum, scum is unlynchable. Give it to town, town can't vote for the scum player to win the game.

5 man lylo, you

can

win, but only if
1)a townie controlled the ability the night before
2)that townie gives it to a scum player.
3)all three townies unanimously vote for the other scum player.

4 dudes left, you pass it to an SK, the guy frickin wins against 3 townies and can claim SK in the thread. Yes. The dadgum thing is antitown. Voting and lynching are the ways townies win the game, naturally the thing sucks for us. And it actually sucks for us the entire game, the effect just isn't as dramatic. We either have a town player who cannot vote for scum, and would be using his vote more honestly than the scum who will take adantage of his silence, or we have an unlynchable scum who could totally blow his cover but still use cyclable abilities or be the guy to commit the nightkill that night.

I know the virtues of hiding info, but it's important to think about what that info can be used for. The info to reveal here to remove the treestump ability are:
1. Who the vigs, if any, will target that night.
2. Who is going to receive the treestump ability that night.

For 1, the only thing to fear is mafia doc and mafia busdriver. We're going to select a scummy player for this, so it's either a scummy townie, or a scummy scum. If it's a scummy scum, we eventually lynch the guy and we might get tracker info about why he survived. If he's scummy townie, well, we had a vig shooting someone who to the best of the town's ability seemed to be scum, and the mafia actually used their ability to stop a townie from dying. That oughtta help us somehow.
Busdrivers screw with things, but again there's tracking.

Both those cycle away from the faction that night so we can try again. Even if it doesn't work on first try, we can probably recoup our losses the next night.

I still think we should remove the treestump ability. And I think we should do it immediately, since the detrimental effect the treestump ability has is proportional to how long the game has been going on.
---

Figuring out how to create advantage within the setup is part of theme games, even normal games somewhat. Where's the spirit? You keep mentioning vague "bad things will happen, for sure, i just don't know what they are or why they will happen", and that's your only argument.

There's a fine line between successful planning and showing your hand.

I'm thinking maybe we ought to remove implosion's ability from the game. If you're town, please argue for or against that without appeals to fear, mkay?

I have no strong opinion either way. I don't think it's uniformly anti-town. It can be used beneficially. implosion and you are thinking too far ahead, imo. The cyclical mechanic and likely multiple kills will eventually catch up with most of the abilities, most likely. This just isn't a priority thing to worry about. As in most good mafia games, the only thing I'm concerned with right now is catching scum, not overanalyzing our powers.

---

How the cycling abilities will be handled -

D2 all players who survived and passed on abilities N1 should claim that they passed an ability, only revealing what that ability was if it gave them a Pro-Town result (like a guilty on someone). They are not to claim who they passed it to.

D3 all players still alive who passed abilities N1 claim who they passed them to. Then said players confirm / deny that they received an ability Day 2 that they passed on N2. They also reveal any useful results.

Lather rinse repeat each Day cycle. And continue to lynch scum.

I can support this, if only because it will kind of stop us from going on too much about the whole "what to do" aspect and focus our efforts on the actual game. It's efficient.

[popsofctown]

pops, what would I have to gain by saying "The mod clarified it without me asking him to" instead of "The mod clarified it with me asking him to"? I don't even see why this is a big deal.

Because your many times as likely to ask if you're part of a faction?

[diddin]

Hello everyone.

Based on my initial readthrough the idea of passing antitown roles to someone scummy seems like a fairly good idea. Parama's hot potato thing is ...rather interesting.

Also, my role says something about a virus being unleashed. Should I fullclaim?

Also

Vote: Quadz08

. Early scummy vibes from him on that terrible "scumslip" catch, not to mention one on a claimed fairly powerful PR.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Given that Mod had to clarify on multiple occasions in Mini 1040 as questions came up about the mechanic I’m not really sold that him doing that sort of thing here is an indication of a scum-tell for Parama.

For anyone who doesn’t get why making the passing of powers public

– Scum cannot pass powers between their own team members. Thus every pass that is publicly made (after the requisite amount of time to make sure the Power is safe from NK) eliminates each half of the transaction from being aligned together as Mafia. It’s an additional level of PoE that can be exploited later in the game in additional to normal scum-hunting and behavior interactions.

I've kinda answered both these already but
1. Not telling
2. It can be passed whenever the hell someone wants to pass it.

Given it can be passed at will to you think it is effective to do anything but eliminate lurkers / flakes?

let me say that MoI's confirmation strategy is the best town strategy for a game like this.

No. The best town strategy is to scum-hunt and lynch scum. My suggestion is only an additional useful tool to help Town do so.

feel free to nominate me for scum finders bitches.

Sure … find us a bunch of scum and I’ll happily do so. On the other hand I’m not doing it on the merits of passing what seems to be a non-standard ability around.

Well, we'll lose a lynch.

How do you know we would lose one by testing Implosion’s unlynchability?

Currently I'm not liking Muh, a couple of posts and no content; I'm also not liking quadz based on his "scumslip" vote on paramas nulltell.

If you ‘don’t like’ either of these players (which I assume means you think are scummy) why didn’t you vote for either of them?

Your name doesn't sit well with me...

How long are you going to be stuck in joke mode?

Also Vote: Quadz08. Early scummy vibes from him on that terrible "scumslip" catch, not to mention one on a claimed fairly powerful PR.

How is his 'catch' attacking a claimed fairly powerful PR?

MOD – I’ll be V/LA from 4pm EST today until Jan 1. I will be able to post sporadically in that time but will have less access than normal.

[popsofctown]

I feel strawmanned. I'm arguing that the manner in which Parama received clarification and how he described it sounds suspect. Of course I wouldn't suggest that theme games infrequently require clarification.

[WrathChild]

I actually see where Pops is coming from. I've seen interactions with role and scum-alignment cause this sort of confussion, which resulted in a delay of clarification, which is usually suspiciously defined. However, I'm not sure it's quite lynch worthy, just note worthy at the moment. I need to go back and check what the Virus is supposed to do.

I agree with the MoI plan and will definately be happy to announce all/any passing I do.

I also think the fact that the Treestump is testable during the day could be a useful scum hunting tool, but we need to figure out how many disruption roles we have first, meaning that targets should not be discussed prior to handoff, only after... for now.

[WrathChild]

I actually see where Pops is coming from. I've seen interactions with role and scum-alignment cause this sort of confussion, which resulted in a delay of clarification, which is usually suspiciously defined. However, I'm not sure it's quite lynch worthy, just note worthy at the moment. I need to go back and check what the Virus is supposed to do.

I agree with the MoI plan and will definately be happy to announce all/any passing I do.

I also think the fact that the Treestump is testable during the day could be a useful scum hunting tool, but we need to figure out how many disruption roles we have first, meaning that targets should not be discussed prior to handoff, only after... for now.

EBWOP:

UNVOTE

my RVS vote.

[Narsis]

let me say that MoI's confirmation strategy is the best town strategy for a game like this.

No. The best town strategy is to scum-hunt and lynch scum. My suggestion is only an additional useful tool to help Town do so.

that is true. although i wasn't suggesting that we forgo scum-hunting for it.

[TheLonging]

VOTE: Parama

Scumslip, much?

lol

if Parama is scum I'll eat hats

[diddin]

I actually see where Pops is coming from. I've seen interactions with role and scum-alignment cause this sort of confussion, which resulted in a delay of clarification, which is usually suspiciously defined. However, I'm not sure it's quite lynch worthy, just note worthy at the moment. I need to go back and check what the Virus is supposed to do.

I agree with the MoI plan and will definately be happy to announce all/any passing I do.

I also think the fact that the Treestump is testable during the day could be a useful scum hunting tool, but we need to figure out how many disruption roles we have first, meaning that targets should not be discussed prior to handoff, only after... for now.

EBWOP:

UNVOTE

my RVS vote.

Unvoting without a revote, ick.

unvote, Vote: WrathChild

Magna, I think this hot potato role is fairly powerful, do you not? I'm also getting town vibes from Parama, even more than usual in this game.

[quadz08]

I feel like this issue can be relatively easily cleared up.

@Mod: Was the 'hot potato' role clarification sent on your own initiative, or were you asked about it?

Also, I feel like my catch on Parama was pretty legitimate. The way it was worded implied to me that he had asked the mod to specify if he could pass it to his scumbuddies. If the mod did, in fact, clarify it on his own, then it is clearly a null-tell. Otherwise, though, I'm calling it a scumtell.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna, I think this hot potato role is fairly powerful, do you not? I'm also getting town vibes from Parama, even more than usual in this game.

As I understand how the Hot Potato works it is a marginal ability that can be used to weed out lurkers or flakes. It can't confirm alignment relations in any way so it clearly isn't as strong as other Cyclical abilities.

That said Mod has already confirmed that scum can start Day 1 with abilities so I'm not seeing how Parama starting with a Power clears him in any way.

If you have strong Parama Town vibes that's valid. The fact that you supplemented it with supposition that an attack on Parama is attacking a Strong Town PR I find suspect.

[WrathChild]

I actually see where Pops is coming from. I've seen interactions with role and scum-alignment cause this sort of confussion, which resulted in a delay of clarification, which is usually suspiciously defined. However, I'm not sure it's quite lynch worthy, just note worthy at the moment. I need to go back and check what the Virus is supposed to do.

I agree with the MoI plan and will definately be happy to announce all/any passing I do.

I also think the fact that the Treestump is testable during the day could be a useful scum hunting tool, but we need to figure out how many disruption roles we have first, meaning that targets should not be discussed prior to handoff, only after... for now.

EBWOP:

UNVOTE

my RVS vote.

Unvoting without a revote, ick.

unvote, Vote: WrathChild

Magna, I think this hot potato role is fairly powerful, do you not? I'm also getting town vibes from Parama, even more than usual in this game.

Haha, that's a first for me. Getting voted for unvoting without revoting? Is this standard procedure here?

[diddin]

I actually see where Pops is coming from. I've seen interactions with role and scum-alignment cause this sort of confussion, which resulted in a delay of clarification, which is usually suspiciously defined. However, I'm not sure it's quite lynch worthy, just note worthy at the moment. I need to go back and check what the Virus is supposed to do.

I agree with the MoI plan and will definately be happy to announce all/any passing I do.

I also think the fact that the Treestump is testable during the day could be a useful scum hunting tool, but we need to figure out how many disruption roles we have first, meaning that targets should not be discussed prior to handoff, only after... for now.

EBWOP:

UNVOTE

my RVS vote.

Unvoting without a revote, ick.

unvote, Vote: WrathChild

Magna, I think this hot potato role is fairly powerful, do you not? I'm also getting town vibes from Parama, even more than usual in this game.

Haha, that's a first for me. Getting voted for unvoting without revoting? Is this standard procedure here?

It's scummy because you're sitting on the fence and not taking a strong enough stance on anybody to vote them.

[Parama]

HEY MOD CAN YOU POST SO I KNOW WHETHER MUH PASSED HIS POTATO OR NOT?

[WrathChild]

I unvoted a Joke vote and am not sure who deserves a vote at this moment. I'm not a big fan of the joke phase, so just placing a vote to place a vote just seems pointless. I'll have a vote soon enough, and definately by the end of the day.

Since it's your scum day, I'll let this one slide.

[Parama]

Since it's your scum day, I'll let this one slide.

...

FoS: WrathChild

[Powerrox93]

HEY MOD CAN YOU POST SO I KNOW WHETHER MUH PASSED HIS POTATO OR NOT?

...I don't think that the mod would reveal that kind of thing...

[Parama]

muh will have exploded if he didn't pass it by now unless the timer changed for him, which I highly doubt considering the wording of the ability. So if the mod posts and there's no dead muh, alive muh will post telling us who he passed it to and when.