Mini 1085: Higurashi Mafia Game Over!

[UncertainKitten]

Generally it'll give more information to the scum than the town, rather helpful information. I don't want to elaborate but will if pressed.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Generally it'll give more information to the scum than the town, rather helpful information. I don't want to elaborate but will if pressed.

No need. I came to that conclusion about 10 seconds after I posted why I did it >.<

I'm just looking for some kind of lead outisde of using RVS/RQS.

But you are right in saying that this isn't the way to go about it.

[Rena]

Vote Count

Tumescence: Lambda-chan
Lambda-chan: Drench, Carrotcake
Rena: UK
Cityofas: ZazieR, Zodiark
Drench: Exilon

Not Voting: TheLonging, SpyreX, Cityofas, andrew24, Tumescence

Deadline is Wednesday 8th December at 9pm GMT. With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[TheLonging]

if I don't understand question 4 UK, then enlighten me.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Question 4 can be taken as WIFOM, if you expect that if someone was scum in that situation, using what they answer the question with to determine their guilt at L-1. That would be WIFOM, and that's what I expect TL meant?

[UncertainKitten]

Well, you don't understand the purpose of the question, rather, TL. And I really feel it would have less effect if I fully explained at this juncture. I would STRONGLY appreciate it if you answered. After all, if you're town, you have nothing to lose by answering it, do you?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I think the questions are pointless to be quite honest, but I also see no pro-town reason to NOT answer them.

I'll support UK in her request to see you answer these questions. Please do, if it's not too much trouble. ^_^

[TheLonging]

Notice that Zazie did not answer question 4. you should also ask him

3. Do you agree with Lynch all Lurkers?
4. What would you do as scum at L-1 to try and shift the lynch away from you?
5. When do you find it appropriate to hammer someone?

3. I don't agree with the LAL itself, I would lynch a lurker if he/she is being scummy.
4. I would do like I always do, regardless of alignment or position; explain and argue against the points for me. I would also look for easy BW hoppers in the wagon. My alignment doesn't indicate change in playstyles.
5. After they have claimed. If I ask a question and I feel like it's needed for them to explain the question, I won't hammer. Otherwise, if I feel he/she is scummy, I'll hammer, and if not scummy, I won't.

[UncertainKitten]

I did NOT notice that.

Zazie, answer it.

[CityofAs]

1. Dunno
2. No
3. No
4. -
5. Can only remember one time I hammered, which was against a player I was suspecting all game.

Vote CityofAs

Why are voting me? I have to admit the fact you only answered the bare minimum and threw out a unexplained vote doesn't look good.

Ok, first off;

Vote: CityofAs

I am vehemently opposed to RQS as a replacement to RVS. The first NG I IC'd was abandoned because of it.

I fail to see why it makes me scummy though. That's just a unrelated disagreement imo. Unless you're just voting me because you disagree with me, which doesn't help town at all.

2. Ok, the link would be good in a NG, but, dude, this is a Mini Theme. The link makes you look condecending to me.

Sorry. I'm new to this site and I don't know the experience/difficulty levels of the various types of games (hence the experience question). I honestly wasn't trying to be condescending.

i only have 1 question 1)how does the above help us apart from making wifom and trapping people(town)

Can I ask why CityofA's is doing this though? It's not particularly useful evidence.

True. But it spurs discussion and gets the game going (which is clearly has...).

[CityofAs]

5. When do you find it appropriate to hammer someone?

5. When there's a general consensus

this strikes me as odd, you would hammer someone just because other people think they are scum?

[Drench]

5. When do you find it appropriate to hammer someone?

5. When there's a general consensus

this strikes me as odd, you would hammer someone just because other people think they are scum?

It saddens me I can't find a way to reply to this sarcastically, so:

No, I wouldn't. If I think they're town, I won't hammer, but if I and a general number of others are firm in their beliefs of the reverse, then I would. Does that clarify?

Also, I didn't answer Question 4 either, mostly because it's stupid. Because OMG RANDOM QUESTIONS = DISCUSSION!!, I'll continue to not answer it. Because OMG RANDOM NONANSWERING OF QUESTIONS = DISCUSSION!!. Not a fan of the questions, did you notice? Not a fan of your possible motives behind them, either.

FoS: CityofAs

Vote stays on LL for the flava spec.

[SpyreX]

My point being, succinctly, that using this as evidence is rather pointless. And if we can't use it as evidence, we're wasting our time on it.

There is a HUGE difference between 'evidence' and 'a case'.

However, there is information to be had all over. I said I'd hammer even without a claim and not a peep.

[Zodiark13]

[quote="CityofAs"

Ok, first off;

Vote: CityofAs

I am vehemently opposed to RQS as a replacement to RVS. The first NG I IC'd was abandoned because of it.

I fail to see why it makes me scummy though. That's just a unrelated disagreement imo. Unless you're just voting me because you disagree with me, which doesn't help town at all.
[/quote]

Oh yeah, and causing the town to squabble as to weather question 4 is WIFOM or not, and discuss the merits(or lack thereof) of RQS, distracting them from scumhunting, is so townish. Successful scum is successful.

2. Ok, the link would be good in a NG, but, dude, this is a Mini Theme. The link makes you look condecending to me.

Sorry. I'm new to this site and I don't know the experience/difficulty levels of the various types of games (hence the experience question). I honestly wasn't trying to be condescending.[/quote]

This brings up another problem with RQS. The questions, and their revelance, depend entirely on the experience level of the person asking them.

[andrew94]

^ your first statement = my thoughts exactly

[Carrotcake]

1.) It isn't a stupid idea lambda, many setups have been broken by a day one flavor claim. Mini-themes usually aren't the best at balance. Saying it helps scum more is as baseless as saying it helps town more. But I've generally good experiences at mass flavor claims. And people who suggest it aren't usually, believe it or not, role fishers, but are town.

Scum are probably much, much more afraid of this than the town is. They need to contend with duplications, and they'll try to pick a role late. But doing so makes them suspicious. This is different from normal games. Role fishing becomes a tool for the town.

2.) Drench. Here's a better question: There isn't a consensus. If you find yourself amongst a meek town, will you stand up and take command? Have you ever started and drove a bandwagon to it's bloody end? Have you ever stuck your neck out for instinct? Are you sheep, who can't do anything for yourself and stays with safe choices all the time?

3.) Lambda, the evidence isn't this simple. For example, from the answers I could spot the impulsive egomaniacs, whose sudden swaps in attitudes are scum-tells. In the early game meaningless tidbits are strained out to clump into something bigger.

Are you saying things that don't count as meaningful evidence are useless? If you are going to rage so hard about it, then I politely ask you to stop with all the posts that attempt to be funny. And are quite pointless in the end. This vindication is even more of a waste than asking the questions.

4.) Zodiark you're a troll. It isn't condescending, adding extra effort to add convenience for us is the furthest thing from it. It's thoughtful.
Yeah, he is distracting us from the more important things like scumhunting... which involves twiddling our thumbs and squashing discussion as it's distracting us from twiddling our thumbs and squashing discussion.

Rather than talk smack about his inexperience, perhaps you could brings yours to bear and improve the questions.

[ZazieR]

Really, UK? You are so paying attention to what's answered. You're probing TL into answering question 4, while as was pointed out, I ignored it too, SpyreX 'bragged' about his performances and Drench mocked with the question. So how serious are you looking into it yourself?

Why I'm voting you, City? For question 4. Compare the following:
'How do you act as scum?'
with
'What would you do as scum at L-1 to try and shift the lynch away from you?'
With that said, why did you ask this question (Talking about question 4)?
And in response to your response, what else did you want to hear? I don't know how many games I've played and I don't see why it's needed to point out the reasons why I don't support LAL and LAL. Especially with LAL and LAL, as it could turn into a mafia discussion topic if these get elaborated on. As said, I don't like question 4. And I'm torn about question 5.

As for Carrotcake, if you believe that discussing set-up is oh so helpful, then why didn't you propose to do so or why aren't you discussing it yourself?
And your third point from post 90 is interesting. Now you state that the RQS could help, while it was you who stated that your answers aren't set in stone and that the answers are role independent.
Also, if you think scum are more afraid of flavour talk, then what's your thought on the players who oppose it?

[Exilon]

Ok, first off;

Vote: CityofAs

I am vehemently opposed to RQS as a replacement to RVS. The first NG I IC'd was abandoned because of it.

I fail to see why it makes me scummy though. That's just a unrelated disagreement imo. Unless you're just voting me because you disagree with me, which doesn't help town at all.

Oh yeah, and causing the town to squabble as to weather question 4 is WIFOM or not, and discuss the merits(or lack thereof) of RQS, distracting them from scumhunting, is so townish. Successful scum is successful.

And how, pray tell, do you scumhunt from zero? In other words, at least his intention was there and it was able to create discussion. A little more than what you did so far- complaining about scumhunting and not scumhunting, is something I find incredibly interesting and funny to watch. GOOD JOB AT TRYING TO LOOK TOWN.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Zodiark13

[Drench]

2.) Drench. Here's a better question: There isn't a consensus. If you find yourself amongst a meek town, will you stand up and take command? Have you ever started and drove a bandwagon to it's bloody end? Have you ever stuck your neck out for instinct? Are you sheep, who can't do anything for yourself and stays with safe choices all the time?

I have absolutely no experience on MS with a meek town, so my answers come from my F2F games, but if there's no consensus, then yes, I'm prone to ride the wagon long and hard. I have driven a bandwagon to the end a couple times, and been lynched for it more times. As I mentioned, if there's a consensus OR if there's no doubt that they're scummy scum who scum up the place with their scum, I'll hammer like

Mario

Mion

Shion. Um, yeah.

[Carrotcake]

As for Carrotcake, if you believe that discussing set-up is oh so helpful, then why didn't you propose to do so or why aren't you discussing it yourself?
And your third point from post 90 is interesting. Now you state that the RQS could help, while it was you who stated that your answers aren't set in stone and that the answers are role independent.
Also, if you think scum are more afraid of flavour talk, then what's your thought on the players who oppose it?

1.) Not bringing it up doesn't matter. Does it make my points any less valid? And I am discussing it. See the post. You were meant to read it.
2.) Yes, my answers aren't set in stone. I concede that exceptions occur that may lead me to not lynch a liar. So what? How does this pass off as me undermining random questioning. How does it connect? I expect you to answer this, and will nag you until you do.

Saying that there may be exceptions to my answers does not have any connection to how I view random questioning. In fact nothing you are saying is making sense. You form connections where they do not exist. However, for the sake of politeness I shall humor you.

These are the type of players that oppose flavor talk:
1.) Town so trained in normal mafia. "Rolefishing is scummy!". They keep this as a principle and fail to see the opportunities in theme mafia.
2.) Mafia who are afraid of rocking the boat, as they have no obvious play.
3.) Players with inside knowledge, such as power roles.
4.) Players who are second-guessing power roles
5.) People who are afriad to win , or those that don't want to disrespect the mod.
6.) Players who fear the unknown.
7.) Those who honestly believe that this is detrimental to victory as town, and this is the case plenty of times.
8.) Those so enamored with traditional play, that they can't play any other way.

I'll speak more on this later. But I want to see how people react on this.

WHAT DOES EVERYONE THINK OF A FLAVOR CLAIM?

There are much more, but as I recall these are most relevant to our type of game.

So many questions and so little answers. Is this how you people play?
Deflect, and ask. Define ambigously and arrogantly with words like "interesting". Whine about random questioning as you wish. Those came in sweet and welcoming. But this? If you are going to be aggresive, then at least make sense.

[Carrotcake]

Why I'm voting you, City? For question 4. Compare the following:
'How do you act as scum?'
with
'What would you do as scum at L-1 to try and shift the lynch away from you?'
With that said, why did you ask this question (Talking about question 4)?
And in response to your response, what else did you want to hear? I don't know how many games I've played and I don't see why it's needed to point out the reasons why I don't support LAL and LAL. Especially with LAL and LAL, as it could turn into a mafia discussion topic if these get elaborated on. As said, I don't like question 4. And I'm torn about question 5.

A caricature:
The Rabbit: Hello there, Giraffe, what's your favorite type of icecream.
The Giraffe: I don't and I don't see why I have to tell you.
The Giraffe: Hang the giraffe! Burn the witch!
The Rabbit: That's doesn't make much sense.
The Giraffe: Why?! Comapre the two: [What's your favorite type of icecream?] [You are an icecream maniac aren't you!?] That's why I'm voting for you. Why did you ask me anyways?

This is the part when the rabbit blushes, and runs off to tell her girlfriends about how love at first sight doesn't exist.

[ZazieR]

As for Carrotcake, if you believe that discussing set-up is oh so helpful, then why didn't you propose to do so or why aren't you discussing it yourself?
And your third point from post 90 is interesting. Now you state that the RQS could help, while it was you who stated that your answers aren't set in stone and that the answers are role independent.
Also, if you think scum are more afraid of flavour talk, then what's your thought on the players who oppose it?

1.) Not bringing it up doesn't matter. Does it make my points any less valid? And I am discussing it. See the post. You were meant to read it.
2.) Yes, my answers aren't set in stone. I concede that exceptions occur that may lead me to not lynch a liar. So what? How does this pass off as me undermining random questioning. How does it connect? I expect you to answer this, and will nag you until you do.

Saying that there may be exceptions to my answers does not have any connection to how I view random questioning. In fact nothing you are saying is making sense. You form connections where they do not exist. However, for the sake of politeness I shall humor you.

WHAT DOES EVERYONE THINK OF A FLAVOR CLAIM?

1) So funny. Weren't you complaining about deflecting and asking questions? Look what you're doing here. So do answer.
Anyway, that point against you is valid. Your points aren't valid as it all comes down to outguessing the mod. And no, my point about you not discussing it is about that you aren't discussing the flavour.
2) You're stating that RQS helps. However, if answers may not be set in stone, you can just say later on when questioned 'oh, but this is an exception'.

Reply showed your last post about the rabbit and the giraffe. Yep, wrong comparison. Nice try trying to break my argument against City.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

WHAT DOES EVERYONE THINK OF A FLAVOR CLAIM?

UNVOTE: VOTE: Carrotcake

That's what I think of it. Right after I was being really idiotic, and posted a lot of flavor info, you want to have us all claim our role flavors? What pro-town motivation can come from having everyone claim role name and flavor? If there is any, please enlighten me. As of right now, the only motivation I can see is scum wanting to know what kind of town roles they're up against. What I did was stupid. What you're doing is blatant rolefishing, and scummy.

More votes here please.

[Carrotcake]

1.) What point are you talking about? Try not to be as ambigious as you normally are. I'm not the sharpest fork on the cupboard.
2.) It helps in a different way. There is more to it than the simple trap you put up. You also gain insight on the character of people answering it. And it sets us up to talk about something. If there is an exception, then I'll try my darnest to explain it. I don't know how you should interpret my answers, but know that I've answered honestly. Except the spewing on Grannies part, since I love em', I really do.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

May I ask what insight into the "character" of a player will do for you in a game?

Protip: The answer begins with "It doesn't do anything".

On another note, why are you so adamant in defending CityofA's RQS statement? It's weird.