Open 263 - The Wild Life [Game Over]

[kunkstar7]

:: VoteCount 1x5 ::

drmyshottyizsik (4) -

silverbullet999, andrew94, jasonT1981, chkflip

andrew94 (2) -

drmyshottyizsik, Erinyes

parknourie (0) -
smashbro_of_the_SSS (0) -
silverbullet999 (0) -

Erinyes (3) -

iamusername, Shattered Viewpoint, Guthrie

Broggly (0) -
Shattered Viewpoint (0) -
Guthrie (0) -
jasonT1981 (0) -
chkflip (2) -

smashbro_of_the_sss, parknourie

iamausername (0) -

Not Voting (1) -

OpposedForce

With 12 Alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline for Day One is November 30, 2010 9:00PM EST.

Erinyes has been prodded. OpposedForce replaces Broggly effective immediately.

[andrew94]

look

shotty = werewolf 70% sure
erinyes = mafia 90% sure
andrew= town 100% sure
kunkstar = mod 100% sure
jason = town 50% sure
park = town 78% sure

maybe should lynch erinyes to prove to u guys

[OpposedForce]

Hello everyone. OF here. Will re-read the thread shortly and post my thoughts regarding the game.

[OpposedForce]

Where to start? I suppose we can start on this gem of a comment that had pulled everyone out of the RVS.

no i didnt, i was asking the mod if others could


strategy: day 1 seer claim+ no lynch
night 1 seer dies
day 2 3 mafia claim, we cant lynch them , if we do , werewolves outnumber us = 1 chance to lynch werewolf
night 2 werewolf obs kills mafia
day 3 more chance to lynch werewolf
etc etc

The plan obviously is severely flawed and I don't think I need to explain why. That being said I personally think this is a post made by a pro-town player rather than someone who aims to gain an advantage for their faction. I've never played with Andrew before so I can't judge his play style but I stand by my statement.

This post while in itself not helpful in town strategy has generated interesting reactions to nitpick on.

The reaction posts by Drmyshotty caught my attention.

exactly and then what town auto lynches mafia!?!?
Ya mafia won't go a long with it.

Andrew stop trying to make it to where to mafia can win easilly you are just hard core claiming mafia

Andrew = scum, he has admitted it and acted pro mafia all day.
Lets lynch him

His plan is scummy!
It ends in a mafia win!!!!!!!!!!!!

The reactions themselves are justified to an extent. A player posts an absurd plan and a player acts accordingly to said plan. However the way Shotty was going at it seemed to really be eager to push a lynch onto Andrew and going back to how I felt the plan had a pro-town motive makes me think that Shotty was trying to capitalize on a easy lynch.

Now we turn to Jason's metagame argument

played with him a few times, note the game i linked Shotty was town and did not go after Andrew even though he was playing this exact same way... Scum did however I was scum in that game... now Shotty is going after Andrew for similar things that scum went after him for in the last game yet Shotty didn't as town.

therefor I believe Shotty is scum

Okay, see, I can understand (slightly) how you could potentially persuade yourself that this has some little tiny bits of logic-ness inside of it, but I really, really don't follow the leap from A to B to Banana. And then the last major leap over into "Shotty is scum because the Eiffel Tower is still standing."

Help me?

OK, what I am saying is I feel Shotty is scum because I have seen scum push Andrew the way Shotty is right now.. I did it myself as scum. If you look at that other game, despite Andrew playing the same (And scum pushing his lynch) Town Shotty defended Andrew and didnt see him as scum.

Now Andrew is playing the same way again Shotty is all over him trying to make a BS case on him... like I have seen scum do in the past on Andrew and like I have as scum when facing Andrew as town.

Thats how I feel Shotty is scum because he is doing everything scum is asociated with doing when it comes to trying to lynch Andrew.

Usually I tend to avoid metagaming but this argument is quite convincing. If a player A reacts differently to similar situations caused by the very same player B then it can traced back to said player A's alignment. I find this argument re-affirms my stance on Andrew being pro-town.

That being said and done I choose to

Vote: Drmyshottyizsik

Now onto greener pastures.

FOS: Silverbullet99

Posts filler posts without taking a real stance on anything happening in discussion. Said one game related comment agreeing with Guthre.

Eh, I'm still happy with my vote

What guthrie points out about jason should def be noted though.

Besides that post there has been nothing of value contributed in his posts other than filler comments that don't regard to anything in the game. Thought a FOS would bring attention to him so he doesn't just float on by throughout the Day.

Second FOS: Chkflip

Similar to my FOS on Silver. Hasn't contributed much to discussion, unvotes on a random vote after being called out for this, then proceeds to cast suspicion on the person who voted him.

vote: chkflip

comes on with a random vote, comes back soon after to make another joke, and has no take on any events so far. right.

- Maybe that's because I don't have an opinion. Andrew's points, though far out, have validity. As do Jason's, Shotty's, and Guthrie's. I have no overtly negative read on any of them, so why wouldn't I start off with an RVS vote?
- This, to me, looks scummy.

UNVOTE

- As I have no current leads, I have noone to currently vote on, short you - but at this point, that'd just be silly and quite OMGUS. I'll be back with questions for (pretty much) everyone in my next post.

Then he proceeds to vote Shotty while parroting others (Mainly Jason's) reasoning to validate his own vote. Doesn't explain why he thinks Shotty's opinion of Andrew isn't valid.

VOTE: drmyshottyizsik

For every reason already stated. 1] Trying way too hard to lynch andrew. 2] the behavior changed pointed out by jason. 3] Even if his opinion of andrew was valid (which it clearly isn't) he's tunneling beyond the point of being merely anti-town.

I'd comment more about other posts but I'm tired and it's really late. So any other things I pick up I'll post later.

[chkflip]

through, reactions from my plan, i can tell that shotty is either mafia/werewolf

- Now we're all parrots, squawking off one another. Happy?

[silverbullet999]

I do believe my vote would show my stance on things... least i would hope so.

[drmyshottyizsik]

ANDREW FUCKING CLAIMED MAFIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GOD HOW DO YOU GUYS NOT SEE THAT?!?!?!?

I will have limitted access untill after thanksgiving

[jasonT1981]

Stop that shit, there WAS NO CLAIM.

Show me exactly were Andrew said 'I AM MAFIA!' Seriously show me those words... show me the claim

[drmyshottyizsik]

He didn't say those words but he did say "Hey mod can mafia claim to help my pro-mafia plan?, and town can you go along with it?"
and then he said
"Look guys we should really do this because look how easily and how many ways the mafia can win!"

[jasonT1981]

that is not a claim though..... thats set up questions

[drmyshottyizsik]

Ok,

andrew

- Why do you want mafia to beniffit?

I mKES NO SENSE IF YOU ARE TOWN SO THE ONLY EXPLINATION i CAN SEE IS THAT YOU ARE MAFIA

[chkflip]

Are you always this, umm, energetic?

[drmyshottyizsik]

yes and i hate your avi just fyi

[Shattered Viewpoint]

Are you always this, umm, energetic?

Nah, he's calm this game.

[drmyshottyizsik]

=D

[chkflip]

Really, the only thing I don't get about andrew's plan is why we'd out the seer day one. That's not pro-town at all.

@Shotty:
- Happy Thanksgiving in advance, since you'll be v/la.
- What is your responce to not attacking andrew's assenine plans in the past?
- What's your opinion of Opposed Force? Do you think he's just jumping an easy wagon?
- Anything you want to share now that you're at L-2?

@jason:
- How often do you base your cases on metagaming?

[drmyshottyizsik]

- thank you
- I haven't attack his past dumb plans because in the past he has made it obvious that he is at least trying to be pro-town, here he is straight up pro-mafia
- I think he is Andrews scum buddy. Yes I really do.

The plan obviously is severely flawed and I don't think I need to explain why. That being said I personally think this is a post made by a pro-town player rather than someone who aims to gain an advantage for their faction. I've never played with Andrew before so I can't judge his play style but I stand by my statement.

OP

- 1.How is his plan een slightly pro-town? 2. If he is trying to be pro-town then wouldn't he being helping his faction?

The reactions themselves are justified to an extent. A player posts an absurd plan and a player acts accordingly to said plan. However the way Shotty was going at it seemed to really be eager to push a lynch onto Andrew and going back to how

I felt the plan had a pro-town motive makes me think that Shotty was trying to capitalize on a easy lynch.

OP

- 1. Where is the line of justification drawn? 2. Nice IIoA 3. Ok so now let me ask you this about the bolded section of you quote. You said that

YOU

think the plan was pro-town correct? And you think that since

YOU

have an certian oppinion about something that it must be right?(That's VERY confident of you). Did you ever consier the fact that I thought the plan was anti-town, and pro-mafia?(I only said it a thousand times). So then, if my oppinion of his plan is that it is Anti-Town, then wouldn't me voting him make sense? Yet, you vote me because

"You think that it is pro-town(somehow), so since I think other wise I am OBV scum"

So if you think it is anti-town of me to vote for who I think is mafia then keep your vote on me man, but other wise you have no reasoning at all.
4. How am I trying to capitalize on an easy lynch? Does this look easy to you? I am having to work pretty hard at getting Andrew lynched. BECAUSE I THINK HE IS SCUM!

- Umm... I would like to say that Andrew and OP are pretty obv scum together... that's about it.
OH WAIT HOLD ON I FOUND ONE MORE THING AGAINST ANDREW!

maybe should lynch erinyes to prove to u guys

^Epic attempt at offering to bus much?

[chkflip]

You think the scum team is andrew, OF, and erinyes?

[parknourie]

vote: drmyshotty

Losing your cool like always. But u have said that you improved since we played. Looking back at your games, whenever people are spot-on, you lose your cool. So since you lost your cool now, you are 100% Mafia/Werewolf.

[chkflip]

UNVOTE:

- With five scum candidates, it makes for easier mislynches.
- I'd like to hear shotty's opinion on parknourie's most recent accusation.
- I'd like to hear shotty elaborate on this andrew/of/erinyes possibility.
- I shouldn't have to mention that it's only page 6/7 into day 1 and that scum could easily hammer shotty, who may very well just be over-excited. I mean, he's sixteen. It happens.

[OpposedForce]

- thank you
- I haven't attack his past dumb plans because in the past he has made it obvious that he is at least trying to be pro-town, here he is straight up pro-mafia
- I think he is Andrews scum buddy. Yes I really do.

The plan obviously is severely flawed and I don't think I need to explain why. That being said I personally think this is a post made by a pro-town player rather than someone who aims to gain an advantage for their faction. I've never played with Andrew before so I can't judge his play style but I stand by my statement.

OP

- 1.How is his plan een slightly pro-town? 2. If he is trying to be pro-town then wouldn't he being helping his faction?

Like I said the plan is severely flawed and isn't a viable tactic for town to use. I've stated that the plan had a pro-town ulterior motive behind it rather than the plan itself. The reason I believe this is because it wouldn't be giving an advantage to either faction. The seer gets lynched then mafia claims leaving them open for an Werewolf kill. If anything it would put mafia at a disadvantage and give Werewolves the upperhand.

But the way he phrased it made me think he was trying to eliminate both factions by have one destroy the other then leaving the Werewolves vulnerable to town lynches. By any means it's not a good plan nor does it help town but the motive behind it I see it as pro-town.

The reactions themselves are justified to an extent. A player posts an absurd plan and a player acts accordingly to said plan. However the way Shotty was going at it seemed to really be eager to push a lynch onto Andrew and going back to how

I felt the plan had a pro-town motive makes me think that Shotty was trying to capitalize on a easy lynch.

OP

- 1. Where is the line of justification drawn? 2. Nice IIoA 3. Ok so now let me ask you this about the bolded section of you quote. You said that

YOU

think the plan was pro-town correct? And you think that since

YOU

have an certian oppinion about something that it must be right?(That's VERY confident of you). Did you ever consier the fact that I thought the plan was anti-town, and pro-mafia?(I only said it a thousand times). So then, if my oppinion of his plan is that it is Anti-Town, then wouldn't me voting him make sense? Yet, you vote me because

"You think that it is pro-town(somehow), so since I think other wise I am OBV scum"

So if you think it is anti-town of me to vote for who I think is mafia then keep your vote on me man, but other wise you have no reasoning at all.
4. How am I trying to capitalize on an easy lynch? Does this look easy to you? I am having to work pretty hard at getting Andrew lynched. BECAUSE I THINK HE IS SCUM!

Like I stated the plan itself wasn't pro-town but the motive behind it seemed pro-townish to me. As for me and my convictions I think it's good to take a confident stance on something and following through with it. Your overly defensive reaction to my post helps re-affirm my conviction.

It was clear that your opinion of his plan was "pro-mafia" and "anti-town" but let's be honest here, your posts regarding your thoughts were mostly fluff relating to "He's mafia" or "He just claimed mafia!" Rather than any coherent reasoning you seemed to rush past reasoning and into tunneling. It's also odd how you think he is sided with the mafia faction seeing how if his plan were to follow through it would put mafia at a severe disadvantage. Something you seemed to overlook with your excessive tunneling.

Also answering your response to "capitalizing on an easy lynch" I stand by that statement. Your tunneling on him with your substance-less posts re-affirms my belief. It's just that it didn't turn out so easy when you yourself were brought into suspicion by others.

- Umm... I would like to say that Andrew and OP are pretty obv scum together... that's about it.
OH WAIT HOLD ON I FOUND ONE MORE THING AGAINST ANDREW!

Nice OMGUS. Instead of waiting for a proper response from me you jump straight into the "scum buddy defense" argument. Thanks for solidifying my vote on you.

maybe should lynch erinyes to prove to u guys

^Epic attempt at offering to bus much?

More tunneling without any reason on why you believe this. Nice.

[chkflip]

@Shattered Viewpoint:
- What's your opinion on the day's developments thus far?

[OpposedForce]

vote: drmyshotty

Losing your cool like always. But u have said that you improved since we played. Looking back at your games, whenever people are spot-on, you lose your cool. So since you lost your cool now, you are 100% Mafia/Werewolf.

As much as I'm content with my vote Shotty this seems to be just subtle jumping on the wagon without any concise reason for doing so except "losing his cool making him 100 percent Mafia/Werewolf". Also to mention that this vote placed him at L-1.

FOS: Parknourie

[chkflip]

@Shotty:

Starting with a false assumption and then building a "house of cards" argument on that single assumption is a common part of the game of Mafia, by sheer virtue of the way in which the game is structured. So many unknown factors, abilities, and allegiances exist in the typical game (and especially in an atypical game, such as a Theme Game or Experimental Game), that each Day is an exercise in sorting out truth from fiction.

It can be difficult at times to tell who is building false arguments based on

ignorance

(and therefore likely to be ProTown, if somewhat ineffective), and who is building false arguments based on

secret knowledge

(Scum in possession of the ability to place blame without fear of hitting their teammates). Arguments which seem particularly well-reasoned, or based on hidden assumptions that no one else shares, can sometimes be evidence of scummy behavior. On the other hand, it may be evidence of a Cop with a guilty result who is unwilling to roleclaim yet!

- What are you, dumb or scum?

[andrew94]

my dear friend shootyy.
i have said: this would cause from for example


33% town win chance --> 40% chance
33% mafia chance ----> 40% chance
33% werewolf chance ----->20% chance