Open 248: Two of Four - Game Over

[Thor665]

EBWOPreview: *sigh* Okay, maybe I'm the one not being

opaque

enough - here's how I see it.

Freudian slip for the win!

[BlakAdder]

Well now that you've explained yourself, I understand a bit better, Thor.

unvote

I'm keeping my vote off for now, considering how fast votes are flying around when not everyone has had something to say yet.

[Jora]

Someone could still call B.S. on him.

Yes, we'll see. But it's quite unlikely.

Do you understand that you specifically asked to go last on the Miller claim?

.....This is rather pointless unless he is either the Miller himself or is scum looking to get onto a Miller claim.
.....

Oh, yes! What a smart-ass scum I am! 100% scumtell.
Great analysis so far.

[Thor665]

Why did you wish to claim last then?

Your avoidance of the question and attempt to quick dismiss my accusation is noted in my little black book of scum, I shall title it "How I caught }|{opa".

Do you actually believe CommieX is strong town tell? You initially almost seemed more bewildered that I pointed him out as a second suspect then you were that I targeted you with a vote. What's up with that?

[Jora]

Thor, you accede my Miller-claim plan and now tell that plan was wrong and I shouldn't be the last?! Think again.

Why did you wish to claim last then?

Becouse, I'm the scum-hunter. I offer Miller-claim plan and wanted to be sure that the last claiming isn't scum. That was reasonable plan, besides no one object.

Do you actually believe CommieX is strong town tell?

No doubt. There 50% chance of failing the bluff. No one conscious scum could dare to do it.

[edmund.angles]

I'm not a Miller.

I think it was a good idea to get the miller to claim, no matter if you are the miller or not. Off course it is best when you are the miller, because there's more potential to trip the scum, but there might not even be a real miller. It removes the possibility for scum to claim miller later.
It would be pretty gutsy for scum to claim miller with 4 left to claim, so I choose to believe CommieX for now.

Thor assumed everyone would see the miller claim in the same way as him.

Statement of intent: If I don't find anyone scummy at the end of the day I will attempt to lynch however has contributed the least to the discussion. I will do this no matter if anyone agrees or not.

Vote: Charter

because he is the last to post

[charter]

Let everybody answer the question: I'm a Miller (y/n)?

And I'll be the last to answer, if you don't mind.

Lol.

vote }|{opa

Tripped up by his own cleverness. Thor explained in 24. His response is just utterly terrible as well with how he's defending it by saying it's a protown plan (which I would debate, but isn't the point) instead of defending why he wanted to be the last to claim.

The only way his plan worked if he was town, is if he was the miller hoping to catch scum claiming miller. What is the point of confirming a townie at the start of day one? Now, no scum will even try and fake suspicion on him if he is town. His plan is hugely beneficial to him as scum with his "I'll claim last" because if no one claims, then he claims and he's 'confirmed' town today and probably when we get to LYLO.

And I believe edmund is likely his buddy with his big explanation of going to vote whoever discusses the least. Pretty much just setting himself up to do nothing all day then policy vote a lurker at deadline. The way to avoid this, is to wagon him and not drag out the day. Unfortunately, I only have one vote

[Jora]

Let everybody answer the question: I'm a Miller (y/n)?

And I'll be the last to answer, if you don't mind.

Lol.

What's so funny? You and Thor stated accusation upon me refer to that if I'm not a Miller then plan is wrong. I don't get it. I'm not a miller and I'm townie, but even so it could be used for the benefit. Let suppose that there would be no real Miller, then I recieved a chance to lie and claim Miller for myself. Why?
Then
0)I wouldn't be lynched D1. And through that I increasing the chances of lyncing scum. Cop didn't check me, that I increasing the chances of cathing the scum.
1)Mafias probably and very likely would trying to kill me at first night as "confirmed town". I die instead PR.
2)If I survived to D2, I immidietly claim backward, which scums is doubtful to capable of.
3)..........
4)Profit!!!

And when supposing that plan what benefits do I get if I would be a scum? The same - you yelling! But is that so? I already draw everyones attention. That bad for a scum. If do that what you saying i'm intended to do, and survived to LyLo I would be in a noose and that very obvious.

[BlakAdder]

Okay, opa, your plan doesn't make a whole lot of sense. A lot of this defense seems hastily slapped-together. Plus I think you're not giving us enough credit if you think we won't lynch you just because of the fact that you claimed Miller on D1. This plan seems very much more pro-opa than pro-town.
I really want to vote, but I'm not comfortable putting anyone at L-1 yet. I'll give you some more time to defend yourself, but if you set of my scum radar any more I won't be so hesitant to cast my vote.

[Jora]

That wasn't my "plan". I just show that is nothing scummy in suggesting to be the last Miller-claimed. Quite the contrary - it would be scummy if I don't.

[BlakAdder]

But your thought process relies on too many assumptions. And it still would still pay off just as much if you were scum, if not more.

[Jora]

Scummy is to be in the middle and drifting. Like BlakAdder or charter. But not to propose the mass-claim rules. That always imply excessive attention. Yes, the vantage place in my plan was for me. And what? Everybody can decline it and propose an other queue for claiming. No one objected to that... And it's perfectly done! Why they blame me now? Just 0_0

[Jora]

VOTE: charter

[BlakAdder]

First, "in the middle and drifting" is not the only definition of scummy. Scummy is anything that seems suspiciously pro-scum.
Second, how am I or Charter drifting? I'm pretty sure it's clear that I'm focused directly on you now.
Third, the fact that nobody had to go along with it isn't the point. The point is it seems suspiciously like you were setting yourself up to give yourself a safe fake Miller claim.

[BlakAdder]

EBWOP: And you give no reasoning for voting for charter?

[charter]

How am I "in the middle and drifting"? Reach much?

[Jora]

Second, how am I or Charter drifting? I'm pretty sure it's clear that I'm focused directly on you now.

Just thought that evrybody is fucused on me now.

And you give no reasoning for voting for charter?

How about bandwagoening on middle, drifting scum and the most popular one: OMGUS!

[BlakAdder]

...drifting is the exact opposite of focusing on one person. And the OMGUS only came after you voted him.
Your logic kinda sucks, but I still don't want to vote yet. Too big of a risk for scum too get a hasty hammer.

[Jora]

Sorry, I'm newbie to all this terminology and this site scecific thinness. I wanted to say that charter carried along by currents of the crowd. Just bandwagoning, repeating and try's to strengthen the inefficient places in reasoning of predecessors.

[BlakAdder]

That's the thing, I'm having a hard time labeling you as scum or newbie town. I was almost in your exact shoes in my first few games so that definitely seems realistic to me. I'm just having a hard time making up my mind.

[charter]

I'm not seeing how you can can play the newbie card with regards to terminology but you have this ultimate knowledge of protown claiming actions.

You haven't satisfactory addressed the reasons people have brought up against you, pardon me for not inventing a false reason for voting you instead of reiterating the good ones.

[Jora]

You haven't satisfactory addressed the reasons people have brought up against you, pardon me for not inventing a false reason for voting you instead of reiterating the good ones.

Don't throw dust in crowd eyes. The only reason is that I proposed myself as the last one to claim. But it's no scummy at all.

[Thor665]

@edmund.angles - terrible vote is terrible.

@}|{opa - why the vote on charter? Do you agree with edmund's "logic" for voting charter?

I'll admit I like how }|{opa was willing to and able to explain why CommieX was likely town. I'm a little concerned that he understands that sort of role interaction logic and seems utterly baffled by my case on him.
CommieX is town.
charter is about what I'd expect charter to be - will advance a slight townish vibe thus far but that might just be because he's agreeing with me and I'm easy to appease .
BlakAdder is talking a lot but is actually not saying much yet. Need more before read forms.
}|{opa is newbie. Not certain on whether he's newbie scum or town yet. Leaning scum still, his defense is odd and a bit of a mish-mash and he's lashing out at everything right now - hard to get clear reads.
edmund is pretty anti-town already, and acts proud about it, would be willing to consider his lynch.

EBWOPreview - charter is in my brain, stealing my ideas and posting them before I can.

@}|{opa - you really don't think that if the very last person to claim said 'Miller' that town wouldn't be a little suspicious of that one? You have logic, but it's not that great. Why not just let the Miller claim on their own? Why did you try to set up the Miller claim in a fashion which placed you as the final claim?

[Jora]

why the vote on charter? Do you agree with edmund's "logic" for voting charter?

I think that he's a scum bandwagoning me to quickly make a overweight "case". I think that edmund is right about a lurkers. They ruined many games. Also he's tactic is comfortable for a scum. However, he courageous tell us about he's intentions and this is not a scum style.

And I'm not newbie in every sense of the word. I'm a guest. In the places I came from forum-based mafia has completely different flavour. It's a shame, but I'm doesn't used yet to communicate on English well. Grammatic is pissing me off.

you really don't think that if the very last person to claim said 'Miller' that town wouldn't be a little suspicious of that one?

Yes. But I don't decided at that moment will I be doing the "pretending part" or not. And even so it wouldn't be lasts long, just in order to protect RP's with the own chest or finally tell the truth on the very beginning of day 2.

Why not just let the Miller claim on their own?

The experience is dictating that even if the actions seems totally obvious, there would be much better if somebody suggest it publicly during a day-phase. That excludes many kind of little misunderstandings and quarrels.

Why did you try to set up the Miller claim in a fashion which placed you as the final claim?

But why not? I don't afraid to draw attention and decided that it would be much better. Or else we could face the possibility of that the real Miller would be the last (unintenciously or by the Will of The Providence). Then we'll be in position to commit a terrible mistake. Hence, the last one must be choosen by some method.

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

Alright, so, I agree that opa's tactic seems scummy to me, because, like everyone else said, it seems like he wanted to go last to see if he could fake claim, and if there actually was a miller, he could plausibly take out the "confirmed town" role at night. Also, your vote on charter for being "in the middle and drifting" is a bit farfetch'd. Day 1 began yesterday...wait, its morning now, new day...that makes...19 hours. I don't think its possible to call someone a drifter after only 19 hours of a game, cause you would hate me then. Liking this wagon, and would agree with a lynch. However, I like the edmund case too, and will keep opa from L-1.

I think it was a good idea to get the miller to claim, no matter if you are the miller or not. Off course it is best when you are the miller, because there's more potential to trip the scum, but there might not even be a real miller. It removes the possibility for scum to claim miller later.
It would be pretty gutsy for scum to claim miller with 4 left to claim, so I choose to believe CommieX for now.

It seems like edmund is trying to support his partner, or at least trying to buddy up to another opa, and trying to make himself look like a good townie. He explains how it's good, and then goes on to vote charter. Looking to see if that vote sticks. however, this does seem scummy and like you're covering yourself, so

unvote, vote: edmund.angles