Open 244: Carbon-14 (Game Over, Werewolves win!)

[Robocopter87]

Listen, yes, you can be town. But you aren't acting like a Seer. Your play doesn't fit. Your actions with your claim aren't town. Your responses to my points aren't town. You are set on Liam being scum without a good case.

You could be Town. But I think your scum.

Copper said you obvbreadcrumbed? Where are these [sic]? Tell me, where did you breadcrumb? YOU show me, not Copper.

Copper, don't point out the breadcrumbs. If they are real breadcrumbs, [sic] knows where they are.

So, [sic] please show me your breadcrumbs.

[[sic]]

I said in 145 that I didn't breadcrumb. I've never claimed to have breadcrumbed. Breadcrumbs don't even prove anything, since mafia/werewolves can do them just as easily as the seer/cop.

Out of interest, how would you expect a Seer to play?

[Scott Brosius]

Lynching sic without a counter-claim today is stupid.

[Robocopter87]

I said in 145 that I didn't breadcrumb. I've never claimed to have breadcrumbed. Breadcrumbs don't even prove anything, since mafia/werewolves can do them just as easily as the seer/cop.

Out of interest, how would you expect a Seer to play?

Any Cop or Seer plays Town enough to not get lynched but scummy enough to not get night killed. Usually stays out of the way and lets other people be in line of view so they aren't as big of a target. Thats how you should play most basic PR's.

[[sic]]

Any Cop or Seer plays Town enough to not get lynched but scummy enough to not get night killed. Usually stays out of the way and lets other people be in line of view so they aren't as big of a target. Thats how you should play most basic PR's.

Isn't that pretty much how scum would want to play as well? All that proves is that I'm bad at my role, whether scum or town.

[CallMeLiam]

unvote

I'm really short on time, and I know it sucks for you guys but after a quick skim I'm inclined to believe [sic] and

vote: Robocopter

don't really want to lynch an uncountered Seer claim.

However if you all disagree and need a lynch, I would be a fine choice. In the event we can't lynch scum, then confirmed alignment is what we need from D1 for back reading and info. Will try to get on later tonight but I'm out of my front door in five minutes and need some shoes.

[[sic]]

That should avoid modkill a for Liam.

Unvote

since that wagon won't happen. Robo's recent posting has killed my brief pro-town view of him. Share others' concerns of buddying from Copper. Going to do some reading and come back with a vote.

[[sic]]

Had thought that Copper originally called me town before L-1, but I see it was right after. Still, not sure he realised at the time (I didn't). This was definitely before any possible PR hints, deliberate or not. His apology post-claim was a bit much, I thought, but belief of the claim is consistent with his behaviour since early on. Not 110% sold just because he defended me, but I'm not going to vote him today.

I don't really get why Robo (or anyone) was apparently surprised by Copper "taking my side" after the claim. He's been "on my side" for the entire game.

Sorry for the split posts, kind of busy so I'm throwing stuff down as I have time. 42ish hours to deadline if I'm counting right?

[Robocopter87]

Alright, you act like scum, a wagon forms on you and stays a while.

You claim Seer while also saying,

zomgunvote, etc.

You immediately assume that everyone is going to accept that you are town.

Then Copper comes in saying he was sorry due to the obvbreadcrumbs, yet, theres no breadcrumbs! It looked like a failed attempt from scum to defend his partner near death.

[sic] continues to say things like,

@Robo: If you think Copper's my buddy then the smart play would be to lynch him.

Voting me is useless right now.

[Scott Brosius]

The more I look at it, the more I think given the lack of counter-claim and Copper's play, that Copper is buddying town sic very hard.

Unvote
Vote: Copper

[Robocopter87]

Fine. We lynch Copper instead.

UNVOTE: [sic] for now
VOTE: Copper

Unfortunately, as scummy as [sic] is. He is uncounterclaimed, which kinda ruins my whole case.

[Copper]

If [sic] doesn't want to call it breadcrumbing, then that's fine. Excessive hinting. Dropping tells. Leaving big clues... etc. Whatever you want to call it, Robo is now ducking for cover. Is it really that hard to believe that someone on [sic]'s wagon was rolefishing? I contend that player was Robo on account of his vote hopping. He wanted to appear as though he was considering his vote, when he was really just attempting to turn up the pressure on [sic] to claim. This is why Robocopter is the best lynch today, and his vote hopping solidified that in my mind.

[Robocopter87]

So I'm scum because I changed from a uncounterclaimed PR(though scummy) to someone who said there was breadcrumbs when there wasn't. I'm not ducking for cover, you have been in my choice for a scumteam for a while now. You and [sic]. But [sic] is uncounterclaimed so why not lynch you?

I'm not ducking, I'm helping killing you, because your scum.

[Me=Weird]

Obviously, an a2rude lynch isn't happening.
I'm for lynching robo at this point, though I agree that copper's buddying up, I'm not sure if I think that's worth lynching them for(yet), unless there's other stuff.
He's completely tunneled on [sic] the whole game, he had a funky unvote and revote which could have been him posting and then reading the thread. He's continued to attack [sic] despite nothing even resembling a cc. He's obviously not my first pick, but well, ATTACK OF THE EVIL DEADLINE!!

Unvote, Vote: Robocopter87

[Robocopter87]

[[sic]]

[sic] continues to say things like,

@Robo: If you think Copper's my buddy then the smart play would be to lynch him.

Voting me is useless right now.

Are these still scummy now that they've come true?

Robo seems completely unable to concede a point on anything. Every time I feel like I've made a strong argument, he just ignores it (last para of 126, most of 145, 149, first para of 151, 154, etc). Kind of felt like he got caught without a second option when I claimed, and has been playing reactively since then.

I tink that's three votes? Claim time, methinks.

[Robocopter87]

Can't believe I'm going to be lynched.

[sic], I am NOT claiming unless someone expresses the want to hammer.

[[sic]]

I'll hammer you at or near deadline if you don't claim. Can't see the wagon going away on its own before then.

Btw, for those who can't figure out what an AtE looks like:

Can't believe I'm going to be lynched.

[Copper]

I realize that another head already addressed this point, but I want to elaborate.

Then Copper comes in saying he was sorry due to the obvbreadcrumbs, yet, theres no breadcrumbs! It looked like a failed attempt from scum to defend his partner near death.

We've been using "breadcrumb" as internal shorthand for the "I'm a power role" cues that [sic] has left in his posts. I don't know why [sic] says there are none, but lines like:

I think M=W is smart enough not to hammer after 4 pages of short posts and without a claim, but just in case: Hammering me at this point would be a VERY BAD MOVE.

and

Might claim soon. Losing hope that some people are able to actually help themselves/the town out.

strike me as fairly obviously breadcrumbs. Robo, I'd like you to say out the single biggest reason you think I'm scum. Even if you feel you've already covered it in-thread, write it out in a more concise matter instead of just quoting yourself.

Scott, I'm confused that you voted for this reason:

The more I look at it, the more I think given the lack of counter-claim and Copper's play, that Copper is buddying town sic very hard.

Of course I'm buddying town sic. This is a seven player game. A confirmed voting bloc only two or three strong can absolutely make the game. It's better to townhunt instead of scumhunt when the numbers are this low, and simply pick out the scum with PoE. We agreed fairly quickly that [sic] was a townie, and then he dropped obvious power-role cues. We didn't quite defend him enough, and he was forced to reveal his claim. Now he's uncounterclaimed. Our primary town suspect as an uncountered PR - that's about as confirmed as they get. So, yes, I'm buddying up to the person I'm almost certain is town. Why is this vote-worthy? Indeed, our single greatest regret in the quicktopic is that we didn't buddy him enough when doing so might have saved him from claiming.

[[sic]]

Not sure you get what I'm saying about "breadcrumbs":

For the record, I didn't deliberately breadcrumb. I wasn't careful about hiding that I was a PR, though, so I could see someone who was paying attention (e.g. Copper) picking up on that. I was posting on the assumption that I wasn't going to get lynched, I'm sure there were signs.

In other words, I wasn't thinking "I'll write this so they can see I'm a PR", but I also wasn't thinking "If I write this will they figure out that I'm a PR?"

My definition of breadcrumb is leaving a hint that I want to point back to later. I didn't do that, but I was definitely playing like someone who wanted to claim, and expected to live afterwards. So I can see how you'd figure it out, but the "breadcrumbs" were incidental rather than deliberate. Kind of splitting hairs, I guess.

[Robocopter87]

Copper, those are the worst examples of breadcrumbs and minor tells of a Powerole. It looked like the regular flailing of scum.

[Scott Brosius]

The more I look at it, the more I think given the lack of counter-claim and Copper's play, that Copper is buddying town sic very hard.

Of course I'm buddying town sic. This is a seven player game. A confirmed voting bloc only two or three strong can absolutely make the game. It's better to townhunt instead of scumhunt when the numbers are this low, and simply pick out the scum with PoE. We agreed fairly quickly that [sic] was a townie, and then he dropped obvious power-role cues. We didn't quite defend him enough, and he was forced to reveal his claim. Now he's uncounterclaimed. Our primary town suspect as an uncountered PR - that's about as confirmed as they get. So, yes, I'm buddying up to the person I'm almost certain is town. Why is this vote-worthy? Indeed, our single greatest regret in the quicktopic is that we didn't buddy him enough when doing so might have saved him from claiming.

It seems you knew he was town before anyone else. As Robo just said, those are not breadcrumbs and are not indicative of sic being a town PR. Especially given that you said he left breadcrumbs, and then he said he didn't. It looks like you are attempting to gain town-cred by "recognizing" sic was town, when in fact there should be no reason you thought that, unless you know who the scum are.

[Me=Weird]

Someone please hammer robo or it'll be a no-lynch. Plus, do we really want someone who will try to lynch claimed PR's without a CC in LyLo? If he's town, my top picks would likely be copper and a2rude.

[Robocopter87]

This is exceedingly stupid.

Lynch Copper.

Oh yeah, not self hammering.

Also, [sic] is lucky he isn't counterclaimed otherwise i would be pushing for his lynch SO BAD.

[[sic]]

Claim please, Robo.

Especially given that you said he left breadcrumbs, and then he said he didn't.