More Leeway for Normal Flavor

[zoraster]

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Normal_Game

The setting of a Normal game should be Mafia related. Even flavor text should be minimal and not be based on any book, movie, song, time period, etc.

[nhammen]

1. Normal games must be flavorless, contain only flavor based on mafia or werewolf, or adhere to the following guidelines.

FTR, I was under the impression that the current rule is "Flavor must be based on mafia, warewolf, or face to face games."

The last time I read the rules (in the wiki I think), it said that. But now I can't find it anywhere. When did it change.

[Ythill]

FTR, I was under the impression that the current rule is "Flavor must be based on mafia, warewolf, or face to face games."

If that's true than obv add that to my rule 1.

[zoraster]

I think you guys are confusing my proposed normal draft changes with the official rules. In that it does say mafia, werewolf or face to face. It's technically an expansion of the current rule, but I'd be more than happy to have it expand further.

For "basic" games it's:

The setting of a normal game should be Mafia, Werewolf or face-to-face related. Even flavor text should not be based on any book, movie, song, time period, etc.

For "advanced" games it's:

Flavor should have no effect on the game. Flavor should not indicate who killed a player. Roles should all be known as their common role names and not some flavor name.

Just so no one is confused, the official rules currently are:

The setting of a Normal game should be Mafia related. Even flavor text should be minimal and not be based on any book, movie, song, time period, etc.

[nhammen]

I think you guys are confusing my proposed normal draft changes

Never looked at that before. But I have seen the first rule mentioned there before. Is that rule mentioned somewhere else maybe?

[Ythan]

Quoting the Wiki about site policy is not the best way to support an argument about changes to site policy.

[zoraster]

Quoting the Wiki about site policy is not the best way to support an argument about changes to site policy.

Excuse me? Except those

are

the official normal rules. They're linked to in the normal queue threads. It also happens to have the text of "This page has official status; unlike most wiki pages, it cannot be edited by normal users. If you believe edits need to be made, please bring them up on the talk page." at the top.

What exactly did you mean here? because I don't think you were very clear, so I may be missing your point.

I think you guys are confusing my proposed normal draft changes

Never looked at that before. But I have seen the first rule mentioned there before. Is that rule mentioned somewhere else maybe?

We had a long thread discussing things in the draft rules, and that was one element of it. If you read that thread, you may have seen it.

[Mr. Flay]

zoroaster is right; most of the wiki is informally edited and collaborative, but a few select pages are locked and guarded with the official stamp.

[ConfidAnon]

I strongly agree that any generic (not based on a specific event/book/etc) flavor should be allowed in normal games so long as it does not influence the game in any way.

[Ythill]

This thread needs more mith. I envision him contemplating this heavily and it makes me happy.

[ConfidAnon]

Happy birthday Ythill!

[Ythan]

This thread is a discussion of change to policy. Quoting the current policy as authoritative on whether it should itself be changed doesn't make sense.

[Mr. Flay]

Huh? You have to know where you're starting before you can change things... several people in this thread have been confused about the current guidelines, which is frankly kind of embarrassing.

[Ythan]

It is. Has a lack of adherence to the policy been much of an issue? I know I forgot, but that was an open.

[zoraster]

This thread is a discussion of change to policy. Quoting the current policy as authoritative on whether it should itself be changed doesn't make sense.

Quoting the current policy is necessary when discussing changing it. Whether something needs changing or not depends largely on what the status quo is. It also gives structure to the discussion at hand because we know where we're starting from.

Regardless, there's really no point in trying to criticize this, Ythan. I don't think you gain anything from it other than a pointless digression on whether the post was needed or not.

[The Fonz]

Come to think of it, my large normal was the one game I can think of where it wasn't possible to ascertain killer from method (every single kill had a different method). Though this didn't stop Adel from trying.

[Mr. Flay]

If a mod mentions a different kill style in every night scene, I'm actually going to assume that's mechanics (versus one or two of the usual types, where it may or may not). I can see why Adel was distracted...

[The Fonz]

There were also three kills a night. You really think there were, like, 15 different killers? The whole idea of every single kill being different was so that they weren't all matched up with each other. One of the kills was 'garrotted' and he did some internet research and found that a garrot was also known as a 'colombian necktie' (unbeknown to me). One of the groups was called the Colombian Cartel, so he assumed that group was responsible.

[Yosarian2]

I think you guys are confusing my proposed normal draft changes with the official rules.

No, the werewolf, mafia, face to face was the official rule long before you made that wiki page, zor. For a long time, it was just werewolf and mafia were allowed in the mini normal queau, and then I believe at some point mith specifically approved face to face as another valid flavor, unless I'm remembering incorrectly.

I can't for the life of me figure out where that was said, though.

[Ythill]

Ohey I just figured out a workaround that would solve the problem with public flavor names. Use the translation list that Mith suggested, containing all possible roles, and just come up with a few extra pieces of flavor which are assigned to null entries. Like so...

VT (soldier)
Cop (records officer)
Doc (medic)
Mason (night watch)
Vigilante (sniper)
????? (sergeant)
????? (mine sweeper)
????? (supply officer)

[shaft.ed]

but now youre running a semi open instead of a closed game.

[Ythill]

Not if the list contains every allowable mini-normal role, plus a few dummy slots for mod inventions and fakeclaims of them. My example was abbreiviated.

[Vi]

Not if the list contains every allowable mini-normal role, plus a few dummy slots for mod inventions and fakeclaims of them. My example was abbreiviated.

I'm fairly sure mith didn't want a definite whitelist for Normal roles.

[zoraster]

Not if the list contains every allowable mini-normal role, plus a few dummy slots for mod inventions and fakeclaims of them. My example was abbreiviated.

I'm fairly sure mith didn't want a definite whitelist for Normal roles.

I'm not sure that he didn't. I just think that getting one was fairly low on his priority list because he's undecided. Although, for example, in those proposed rules I kept the "you may have one nonnormal role" and that keeps it from ever being truly semi-open.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Can't we decide on a comprehension?

For Normal's, first-time mods can only do Mafia/Werewolves flavor. Mods who have successfully modded a game can use every generic flavor as long as it doesn't influence the game in a game-breaking way.