mith wrote:Lots of people are introduced to the game through Are You A Werewolf?
Sure; but this is mafiascum, not werewolfscum, and I think it's reasonable to limit our introductory games to our most common flavor.
Mafurscum?
The two main ways I've seen it done are "you can't claim flavor" - which is annoying, and usually prompts players to try to edge up to the line without crossing it - and "if you want to fake claim, I'll write you fake flavor", which has worked well for some mods but I could see potential problems there as well (I don't know that players have ever really tested that method).
Don't use the first approach - ever - for the reason mith brought up. It will just encourage them to try to break the game because they know you're hiding something.
I've actually been toying with the idea of doing a game with flavored Role PMs and letting scum create their own fakeclaim flavors. The catch with doing something like this is that you -must- use different flavors for each power role (not type of power role; I mean power role PLAYER) in the game PLUS a sample Vanilla PM at the very least, and that's a lot of writing.
I know that at least
one Newbie game I've modded has probably crossed the flavor line on paper. Then again, it was very clear that the flavor was Town vs. Mafia and knowledge of what I was talking about didn't change anything. That and it was my best flavor writing onsite so far; I really need to step it up because that game is old now
As for the originating concern, I think if we wrote up some guidelines for non-breaking flavor (if somebody hasn't already, in one of their modding guides),
I'm sorry, did you say something?~
As soon as we come to a consensus inthread I can add it to what's in my sig.
Hmm, this got me thinking. A lot of mods distinguish between different faction kills (gunshot = vig, knife = SK, poison/garrote/beat up/ect = mafia) that's not against the current rules, correct?
SensFan will tell you that all kill flavors are non-Normal; however, there is a very specific set of flavors that is accepted as "normal" and this isn't it. Mafia shoots. Poisoning is a very specific kill from a very specific role (Poisoner). Garroting and beating people up would be okay in a single-faction game.
----
1. Normal games must be flavorless, contain only flavor based on mafia or werewolf, or adhere to the following guidelines.
2. The mod should post a notice in the queue and in his ruleset, informing players that they are signing up for and/or playing a flavored normal game.
3. Flavor should be entirely original. Games based on books, movies, videogames, sports, real people, or any other topic which would allow a player's knowledge of the source to give him an advantage should be run as theme games. Please provide a brief summary of your flavor when you submit your setup for review. (example: The town are lumberjacks and the mafia are environmentalists.)
4. Flavor posted in the thread should have absolutely no bearing on the game. It should be possible for a player to read only the role reveals posted at the bottom or top of any death scene and gain all information needed to play. This relevant information should be formatted to stand out from the rest of the post and should be limited to the details available in the dead player's role PM, the phase during which the player died, and a brief description of the kill method. (example: Ythill Mafia Roleblocker (tree-sitter), stabbed night 1.)
5. A sample vanilla townie PM must appear in the mod's ruleset or opening post. It must include the town win condition.
6. Role PMs and reveals must include the standard name of the role. If secondary role names or descriptive flavor lines are given in role PMs, such information must be publically available.* It is permissable to provide public secondary names or flavor lines for roles which do not appear in the game.
7. Descriptions of a role's abilities must not contain flavor, except that a player with a kill may be told his kill method.
1. I think "contain only flavor based on mafia or werewolf" is a bit vague. See the game I linked above for an example of a game with flavor related to Mafia on some superficial level.
2. If we were allowing flavored Normals - as in the sort of thing I mentioned above with individual flavors - I would be behind this. Incidentally, am I completely wrong on my Mafia history or were "flavored Normals" the original types of games played once the game hit the parlor scene?
3. Fair.
4. I like this.
5. This too.
6. This is a little touchy and goes back to the writing-flavor-on-demand issue. Including flavor names for roles makes them MUCH more difficult to falseclaim ("I'm a Town
Abjurer
, aka JOAT"). Truthfully I would rather not see this sort of thing in Normals; if it is seen I would definitely recommend the mod do the recommending for flavored titles.
7. Fine.
----
1. Don't put anything in a Town role PM's flavor text that you wouldn't write as in-thread flavor text for that role's death.
2. Share the (or at least a) Townie PM in-thread if you're going to use any role PM flavor.
3. Don't mention anyone else's role or mechanics in role PM flavor text unless it's already been mentioned in-thread (this is a corollary of #1), or is integral to the role.
4. Would a non-player reading your flavor text gain any understanding of the game's setup, roles, or mechanics? If so, you've probably said too much.
5. Does your flavor text augment or modify the role's mechanics? If so, you've put it in the wrong section. All role mechanics should be unambiguously labeled as such, including if possible the standard "role name".
6. Does removing the flavor text cripple the role in any way (other than aesthetically)? If so, you've definitely said too much.
1) Yes.
2) Yes.
3) Will add "Remember, as a general rule you should tell your players as much as they NEED to know, and no more" if/when this is added to the guide.
4) We're still talking about Normals, right? In Themes that may be part of the point
In Normals, though, definite yes.
5) Yes yes.
6) Yes yes yetc.
Everything you say and do matters. People will respond in ways you may never see. May those responses be what you intend.
