Open 238: Trendy and Subversive Game Over

[podium123456]

It's not only what you say, it's how you say it.

Dont gloss over that last post of mine... respond to what i asked of you. Where did i get emotional/heated/flipped-out with you? Show me.

When teejay maintained his incorrect observation after i tried to explain it to him, should i have continued trying to get him to understand it... or should i have dropped it?

What isn't accurate about the facts i listed at the bottom?

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The reason i am persistent about this, is because if people would take the time to break down these accusations individually, i believe they will see that there were no unusual reactions. They are 4 separate situations that are being exaggerated and treated as one.

p.s. - and i hope you arent criticizing me for not putting a bunch of smileys and lol's in my posts. my attitude is what it is... i am sharp/abrasive/sarcastic at times. but i try not to be more rude than the person i am dealing with.

[podium123456]

here.... you want meta, here it is Link This is the only town sided game i can link to. There is an ongoing game in which i have been confirmed town (by death) if you want to find that one and look at it as well.

but again, i want you to respond to what i have asked. i believe that if you go step-by-step on each of the different accusations, you will find nothing unusual. i dont even care if my meta shows that i have given the same tone before as town... the point is that i haven't overreacted here to begin with.

[ODDin]

Okay then.

You being emotional and heated in response to me is mainly showed in this line:

What was i supposed to do?

Not

try to get him to understand it? And allow his incorrect criticism to stand? ???

This line reads to me in a broken, crying voice, mostly with the help of the 3 question marks at the end and the emphasised "not". Lots of question marks on the whole represent higher tones and more emotion put into the statement. (These are used in many other posts as well)
Again, it's a matter of how I read you and how I interpret your posts. Emotion is in the details and is subject to personal interpretation. This is why I'm asking you to provide other games where you were town and reacted in a similar manner. You've been on the site more than me, you should have at least one game where you were town and were under attack. I would've looked myself, but you haven't got a wiki page. If I see that this is simply the way you always react, I'll drop the argument.

The facts in the end are, well, very interestingly phrased. Interestingly to the point of being an argument against you on their own right. This, especially:

I made ONE post to teejay regarding his accusation (which i had to repeat because he didn't understand)

No matter how you look at it, you didn't make one post to teejay. You made five. Yes, I know you said in the parentheses you "repeated" it, but it's a very awkward way to put it.

And again, I'm not saying you shouldn't have reacted at all. I'm saying that the actual wording of your reactions reads to me very emotional and very heated - much more so than was necessary.

[ODDin]

Ah, ninja'd. Will look at that game.

[mallowgeno]

Now that you mention it ODDin, he has been AtEing a lot:

A. It wasn't

ME

that almost killed the game, it was gonnano... for quoting an ongoing game.

B. Gonnano accused me of being scum based on his (incorrect) notion that i was acting differently in this game... i disputed that. And here you are telling me that i am scum for disputing that? Really? What was i supposed to do, just agree with him and lynch myself?

Your vote on me is weak, incorrect, and generally not well thought out. Seems very scummy.

Wow, defensive rather quickly. Considering that this is only the second page, I find it disturbing that you were so quick to become defensive.

??

If someone seriously accuses you of being scum, then what is wrong with defending yourself... regardless of if it's page 1 or 21?

I'm 'disturbed' that you are more concerned with my justified response, than with his seemingly scummy accusations/vote.

Lol I found this one very funny:

Again, i ask you... how was my defense an overreaction? ?? What should i have done?? Agreed with him??

^overreacting when he's trying to say he wasn't overreacting

Overall analysis: Scum

[mallowgeno]

I wish millar posted more so I could ISO him. Three posts isn't going to cut it.

[ODDin]

Well, I looked at that game and it was quite an interesting read, actually. You were also attacked there and were explaining yourself over and over again, but you come off much more collected, cool and self-confident in that game.
You'll probably insist on why, so here's why:
Almost no instances of multiple question marks
Trying to drop the issue several times
Saying things along the lines of "well, I've said what there is to say so do whatever you want with it"
Saying "*shrug*"
Even using some humour here and there

The signs of indifference and trying to drop the issue are very important. As town, you know you're town, and you don't want to hold the game on discussing yourself. You know you're innocent, so you don't feel so much need to explain your innocence. When you're scum, there's nothing more important than proving your innocence, and since it's incorrect, it's more difficult to prove, and thus scum don't want to just "leave it be" and "let everyone see for themselves", because they know that truth is against them.

[gonnano]

I got a similar impression reading the linked game... like the argument was the most important part, not some sort of percieved personal attack against him.

I'd like to know what Sawyer and millar think about the comments that have been made recently.

[mallowgeno]

vote podium

That puts him at L-1. I'd also like to hear from our inactive townies before the hammer.

[ODDin]

Let's not hurry with this, though. We're only on page 4.

[podium123456]

Okay then.
You being emotional and heated in response to me is mainly showed in this line:

What was i supposed to do?

Not

try to get him to understand it? And allow his incorrect criticism to stand? ???

See... this is EXACTLY what i mean. People are pointing to the END of my conversations and saying 'oh you over-reacted'... but the exasperation at that point was due to me having to re-explain what i felt was a very basic situation. Look at the FIRST response i made to you here. Does that look like an overheated/over the top response?

When you didn't understand me, i became more sarcastic... but that's only because you couldn't understand what i considered a pretty basic situation. (and you still dont, i believe)

This line reads to me in a broken, crying voice, mostly with the help of the 3 question marks at the end and the emphasised "not". Lots of question marks on the whole represent higher tones and more emotion put into the statement. (These are used in many other posts as well)

you are reading way too much into 3 question marks. i usually go with the roll eyes smiley, but thought that might be a little too rude.

The facts in the end are, well, very interestingly phrased. Interestingly to the point of being an argument against you on their own right. This, especially:

I made ONE post to teejay regarding his accusation (which i had to repeat because he didn't understand)

No matter how you look at it, you didn't make one post to teejay. You made five. Yes, I know you said in the parentheses you "repeated" it, but it's a very awkward way to put it.

Again... another example of what i have been saying. And this goes back to the VERY first post i made to you... you still arent getting what im saying. if teejay had understood what i meant in my first post, then everything would be cool. he didn't. i HAD to keep arguing the point, unless i wanted the incorrect observation to stand. then you say 'oh, yeah but look how many times you did it... you are just overreacting (paraphrasing)'.

The point is that i didn't become more 'heated' (in your opinion) until i had to repeat myself. Is that really all that unusual for mafia?

[podium123456]

oh. my. god. now mallowgeno... who basically hasn't said squat all game comes in and puts me at L-1. are you serious?

well, i know exactly whats gonna happen. everyones gonna start shaking their heads going 'yep, mmhm, ayup... that podium fellow is just doing too much overreacting, so he's scum'. when the truth is that i havent done one scummy thing... nearly

everyone

is piling on me for a BS reason that started when millar made his little 'oh you overreacted, so you are probably scum' remark. then 'over-reacted' became the hottest new catch-phrase.

good grief people.

[podium123456]

Almost no instances of multiple question marks

What!? Did you read the same game i did? Right at the beginning (page 3, i think) i made a post that had FOUR instances of multiple question marks ALONG WITH a question mark smiley.

Are ya kiddin me?

[ODDin]

Almost no instances of multiple question marks

What!? Did you read the same game i did? Right at the beginning (page 3, i think) i made a post that had FOUR instances of multiple question marks ALONG WITH a question mark smiley.

Are ya kiddin me?

There were at the start, yes, but then you stopped.


Regardless, are you realising you're arguing over how I interpret your emotional reaction?

[podium123456]

Regardless, are you realising you're arguing over how I interpret your emotional reaction?

Oh i'm sorry... i forgot to ask permission.

Hey, i'm at L-1 here. Do you mind if i challenge some of the reasons people are using to say that i am scum?


GIVE ME A FREAKING BREAK

[podium123456]

Almost no instances of multiple question marks
Trying to drop the issue several times
Saying things along the lines of "well, I've said what there is to say so do whatever you want with it"
Saying "*shrug*"

i just went over that thread closer... since it has been over a year (and it was my first forum game).

Dude... seriously... how close did you read that thread? In the first big argument with elvis knits my posts were peppered with multiple question marks, question mark smileys, and roll eye smileys. on the 12th page (near the end) i made arguments where i almost verbatim repeat the type of AtE that i have made in this thread "what do you want me to do? stamp my feet and argue to infinity until they believe me" PUNCTUATED with a question mark smiley. You're telling me that isnt somewhat consistent with my activity here?

Now did i have that attitude all through the thread? Of course not if there was nothing for me to dispute in that manner.

The **shrug** you reference above was actually an insult to a case someone made on me... as in it was weaksauce. Remember you are comparing an ENTIRE game to ONE timeframe in this game, so periods in that old game where i wasn't facing exasperating debate will appear differently.

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For perhaps a better comparison to my current mafia attitude, i would suggest you find the ongoing game that i am confirmed townie in, but dead. If you do a search of my posts, the game is on the 4th page of my results. cant say much more than that, as i am respecting the moderators rules.

But i would suggest you check it out... i only lived one day, so its short... but you will see more of the attitude that i presented here. There are actually a lot of similarities with this game... multiple people ganged up on me and i got

extremely

frustrated that i was having to explain myself multiple times and they still werent getting it. Seriously, i think this will show you that what you see here is my normal demeanor when faced with this type of debate.

[ODDin]

I didn't read the game until the end, I read about 5 pages and got a certain very consistent impression. You have handled an attack on you in a very cool and controlled manner, while the way you handle it here doesn't seem cool and controlled.
The fact that you insist on this is seriously ridiculous. It's an impression I got. It's a subjective thing. I can't pinpoint every single phrase and every single smiley that makes me think this or that. It's an overall impression.
The correct townie response should have been to say "well, I'm not really that upset, I dunno" and let it be. Not continue discussing with me whether or not you're upset.

Regarding the last two paragraphs: You're an idiot, and I hope you didn't just kill the game for good.

[podium123456]

Now that you mention it ODDin, he has been AtEing a lot:



Lol I found this one very funny:


Overall analysis: Scum

This post is garbage.

Again, someone is pointing to the END of an exasperating debate session and damning me because i got worked up. Without giving

any

input as to whether the initial reaction was normal/correct.

The AtE's here are consistent with the AtE's found in the game i linked... and are especially consistent with the ones in the game i cant name. Both in which i was town. That is a FACT.

But it's mostly garbage because you havent said jack all game, and then jump in and say 'oh tee hee ur right it's AtE... better lynch him' and put me at L-1.

[podium123456]

I didn't read the game until the end, I read about 5 pages and got a certain very consistent impression. You have handled an attack on you in a very cool and controlled manner, while the way you handle it here doesn't seem cool and controlled.
The fact that you insist on this is seriously ridiculous. It's an impression I got. It's a subjective thing. I can't pinpoint every single phrase and every single smiley that makes me think this or that. It's an overall impression.
The correct townie response should have been to say "well, I'm not really that upset, I dunno" and let it be. Not continue discussing with me whether or not you're upset.

Regarding the last two paragraphs: You're an idiot, and I hope you didn't just kill the game for good.

You're wrong. Flat out wrong.

The first argument i got into with elvis knits i didnt handle in a calm and controlled manner. Shall i start posting quotes?

At the END of the game i make nearly IDENTICAL AtE's as i have here. Why is this not important to you? You were the one that wanted the meta... why are you not considering the full scope?

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I haven't broken any rules... i didnt link or quote that game... i just said theres one out there that i am finished in, if you find it you will see similarities. The rule isn't there to prevent observation, it's to prevent people in THAT game from discussing the game outside of the thread while they are still involved. i.e. scum talking to each other through pms or chat or something.

[gonnano]

Why don't we just get a podium claim? I would almost be willing to hammer, depending on what he claims.

[podium123456]

I'll say this... IF i get killed or lynched, i hope to god that one or both of oddin and teejay are scum. then i wont feel so bad for having this blow up like it did. cause ive never seen so many circular/illogical arguments in my life.

"yeah i think he was wrong there. but you really overreacted when you had to explain it to him multiple times without him understanding it."

or

"boy u sure got defensive quick! we're only on page 2!"
"uhh well... he accused me of being scum"
"no he didnt"
"yeah... right here where he said it... do you see? so then you understand why i was defensive, right?"
"i cant hear you cuz i have potatos in my ears nyahh nyahhhh nyahhhh"

???

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despite all this, i really do like this game. no joke.

[ODDin]

You do need to claim, though, seeing that pretty much everybody in the game except for you wants you lynched, or at least doesn't object.
That being said, I want to hear more from millar and sawyer before we hammer.
Also, teejay, you said you don't want to vote until you're sure. Are you still not sure? (Not trying to convince you either way, just asking.) Do you think we're ready to lynch?

[gonnano]

I agree with waiting on millar/ sawyer before lynching.

[podium123456]

I cant believe you guys are willing to lynch me based on a comparison of my first scum game that happened a year and a half ago, and this one. Especially when there are certain segments that are nearly VERBATIM with what has been held against me here. What is the point of meta, if you don't consider NEARLY IDENTICAL phrasings? Observe.

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Said March 2009:

i've said ALL i can say about who i think is scum, and NO ONE is following. what am i supposed to do? stamp my feet and remain on him until the internet explodes?

Said July 2010:

I did my little random vote thing... what the hell do you want me to do... start crying until everybody votes my random vote?

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Said Feb. 2009:

Huh???

Said July 2010:

What??

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Said Feb. 2009:

Wow. I feel like i'm in the twilight zone... i keep specifically explaining the scenario i gave as a reason, and people apparently either aren't reading it or don't understand it.

Said July 2010:

this is stupid. am i in the twilight zone?... Is it my fault i had to repeat myself?

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Said Feb. 2009:

Not disdain... exasperation from having to repeat myself so much.

Said July 2010:

but the exasperation at that point was due to me having to re-explain what i felt was a very basic situation.

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Does this post look like the post of someone who handled an attack in a cool and controlled manner? There is shouting, insulting, emphasizing, and ZOMG THREE ELLIPSES at the end... and this happened on the FOURTH PAGE of that thread.

Odinnn.... SURELY you jest when you tell me that that post is cool and controlled, and that my posts here comparatively aren't.


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LOOK AT THIS SHIT:

Said March 2009 - 1 month into the game

As it stands though, I am getting really annoyed with Podium and his theory and the arguments that have been had since then. Its really drawing a lot of attention, for absolutely no reason and it makes reading the thread painful.

Hey, well make sure you aren't annoyed with the guy that attacked and inaccurately described my gameplay to spark the exchange, and that admitted that our discussion was not furthering the game... yet continued to keep arguing.

By all means, direct your annoyance fully on me.

It was my mistake for defending myself, i should have just let him say whatever he wanted.

Does this not mirror the attitude i have given here, that i am about to be lynched over? And look at his description of me... he is not describing someone that is just dropping stuff because of indifference.

Seriously people.

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And do me a favor and ISO the three people that are voting me. Sawyer, millar, and mallow. Are you kidding me? Sawyer and millar have THREE posts total. Millar's vote on me is 100% bogus. Millar and mallow aren't far behind.

Helllooooo townnnnnnnn... this does NOT add up. Wake up!

[ODDin]

Please stop, this is getting embarrassing.

To the point, there are similarities (no shit, it's the same person), but your behaviour there seems MORE cool and controlled than your behaviour here does. It's a personal interpretation. I've read into it what I've read into it, and everybody else is entitled to read into it something else - I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone. Your posts, on the other hand, are getting worse and worse. If you're town, I seriously suggest you learn to calm yourself down for future games, otherwise you'll just get yourself lynched a lot.

Now, claim.