Newbie 958 ~Game over!

[Nikanor]

Vote Count 1.5

Earlder1 (3)

- brianj, Incognito, LordChronos

remouk (1)

- Alta

Coach Travis (1)

- Earlder1

LordChronos (1)

- Coach Travis

Incognito (1)

- remouk

Not Voting (2)

- Leech, ThatTumblweed

With nine players alive, five votes are required to lynch.

Deadline falls on Saturday June 5 at 17:14 UTC.

[Incognito]

Glad to see remouk becoming more involved but unfortunately it's against me. Responding to his case:

There's nothing more scummy than voting without explanation (except when there are none at the begining of the game).

Why? There have been plenty of times that I've voted without explanation, so I completely disagree with what you're saying here. And I know plenty of other players who feel the same way I do, so I'm gonna need a bit more than this because honestly, voting without explanation is not a scum-tell at all.

The game is about poiting things. If no one voted XXX when you decided to vote him with no explanation, I don't get how it can change someone's mind to the point that he sees the same thing as you.

The point of my vote wasn't to change anyone's minds about anyone at that point - it was to obtain reactions from both the person I voted, and the other people in the game. Votes can serve multiple purposes; they don't necessarily

only

have to be used to push someone towards a lynch - they can also be used to apply pressure to people or gauge reactions from the player being voted or the other people in the game. There are probably other purposes for votes that I can't really think of right now. Also, in that very post you quoted me from, I pretty clearly explained why I voted Earlder1 in the first place - what did you think of my explanation?

I see it as a "let's vote XXX, maybe someone will vote him too, I'll agree with his explanations and won't be seen as a follower/scum jumping on a wagon".

That's just silly. If I was really voting someone just to try to get a mislynch, wouldn't it make more sense for me to actually provide the reasons that I'm voting the person since that would probably me more likely to help me persuade the other people in this game to join the same wagon as me? Especially if, as you say, I'm an experienced player who would likely know how to do such a thing?

You may disagree with my method here, but I really think you need to think a bit more if the method I've used is really more likely to come from a me-scum or a me-town. I mean, you stated that you agree with Coach Travis's suspicions of me, but even he changed his mind about it and decided that he doesn't find me suspicious for it anymore.

Also, about Earlder1, he's not a newbie player like you're claiming he is. He's one of the semi-experienced players in the game, so he at least has some idea of what he's doing here. It's fine if you disagree with the reasons we've found him suspicious thus far, but I think it's incorrect to disagree with them simply because you think he's new to the game.

[LordChronos]

I have to agree with Incog on the voting without giving reasons. I have seen several town players do that, including Papa Zito and Kishime (if any of you have played with them).

@Incog

I thought Leech and I were SEs. Do we have more than two?

@Leech

Please give us your thoughts on what has been happening. Who is scummiest?

[brianj]

Regarding to above post, I meant 'post'. Not 'vote'. Above notification qualifies all the time; do not prod me, replace me instantly.

remouk's arguments are interesting, but I have to say Incognito has valid point. Obviously it would look pretty scummy too if he chose the alternative of seriously pushing for the lynch, but that is contrarily to the argument. I think I am fairly good at distinguishing bandwagon votes from pressure votes, and from re-reading I don't believe this town would have sheeped the Incognito vote like you suggested. But you are speaking up, and this is very good. It would be nice to see debatable post from Alta too. And how is that analysis coming up Earlder1?

[brianj]

@Incognito
#96 You will probably see this being done by me quite frequently, actually. I generally copy & paste the post I am arguing from whenever I find myself facing a way to explain things- especially since English is my second language.

[Incognito]

Kinda short on time right now but a quick post anyway.

I thought Leech and I were SEs. Do we have more than two?

Oh whoops. You're right. I just assumed Earlder1 was an SE too because his join date's in February, and he has "Mafia Scum" as a title. But yeah, the mod's post does seem to indicate differently.




And ah, thanks, brianj.

Everyone: We could really do with more posting. I just posted yesterday and there've only been 3 posts added since that time. You can't all be scum, so please pipe in. These are exactly the kinds of conditions that favor scum.

[Coach Travis]

I'd help more, but the problem is I can't do anything in a non-active game, because I'm more reactionary than aggressive, it's just how I always am, even in real life.

It's nice to see Remouk finally post, but his vote on Incognito is indeed weak, considering a lot of it was based on something I originally found suspicious, then realized was just a different strategy which I'd never known of, but seems to be valid, and this has since been pretty much confirmed by another experienced player(LC). By no means am I giving Incognito a free pass, but he seems town to me right now, while Remouk is still suspicious, because after all that time his only content was responding to something that had already been dealt with.

Also don't like Alta's somewhat contradicting himself. So those two and Earlder 1 still seem most suspicious to me, meaning nothing has changed at all, and I still haven't seen enough from anyone I haven't mentioned at some point this game.

[ThatTumblweed]

I realize that there have been very few posts, and I've been coming back to see if there is anything being posted that I should respond to, but I don't feel like there's really anything I'm observing that hasn't been pointed out by other players.

I really find remouk to still be scummy, as his one content-laden post didn't dispel any of my previous thoughts. His defense of Alta is a little strange to me, as I didn't really see alta as "protecting" remouk as much as he was defending himself and using remouk as an example. Protect seems an odd choice of words there. I also really disagree with his read on Incog, as I don't think his arguments are that strong.

Earlder has jumped head-over-hand ahead of remouk on my scumminess radar. If I wasn't going to be putting him terribly close to being lynched, I would vote him. But as he says, he hopes he has a chance to redeem the fact that he's "playing horribly." Though I feel like claiming a town identity even as you are the most obviously scummy to be a bit weak.

[Nikanor]

Vote Count 1.6

Earlder1 (3)

- brianj, Incognito, LordChronos

remouk (1)

- Alta

Coach Travis (1)

- Earlder1

LordChronos (1)

- Coach Travis

Incognito (1)

- remouk

Not Voting (2)

- Leech, ThatTumblweed

With nine players alive, five votes are required to lynch.

Deadline falls on Saturday June 5 at 17:14 UTC.

Leech has been prodded.

[remouk]

@mod Nikanor: I don't see ThatTumblweed in your latest Vote Counts!

Oops. Just visualize her name in the not voting list and I'm sure it'll appear. ~Nik

@Coach Travis: Yeah, of course my vote is weak, it's the first day and we don't have much to build a case. I'm not sure at all that Incognito is scum, but he is my top suspect and voting him will make things clearer because he has to answer.

@Incognito: I didn't thought about that strategy and never saw it (I've only played one game before this one). Anyway, I do think that a non-explained vote is scummy (even if good town player already did it), because it's far easier to explain a vote after everyone talked about it, than before. And you can always use the "I wanted to put pressure on him" backdoor.

@ThatTumblweed: I used "protecting" with the quotes. As I said I'm not english so my choice of words may be bad, sorry about that.

[LordChronos]

@remouk

Do you still find Incognito most suspicious after his reply to your case on him?

@Coach Travis

If Alta and Earlder are the most suspicious players here, why are you voting for me instead of one of them?

[Coach Travis]

Yeah, I have no reason to keep that random vote, and there's no reason for me to be overly soft like in my first game.

Anyway, I didn't want to vote Earlder 1 because doing so would put him in L-1, and I think it's too early to do that. Remouk has a vote, and Alta doesn't, so because he hasn't done much and I don't like how he's saying he suspects Remouk even when earlier he didn't, with no reason to really become suspicious of Remouk during that time(this happened before Remouk's weak vote)

Vote:Alta

I doubt this will be my final one of the day, but I do need to see more from Alta, and he is one of my three suspects right now.

[Nikanor]

Vote Count 1.7

Earlder1 (3)

- brianj, Incognito, LordChronos

remouk (1)

- Alta

Coach Travis (1)

- Earlder1

Incognito (1)

- remouk

Alta (1)

- Coach Travis

Not Voting (2)

- Leech, ThatTumblweed

With nine players alive, five votes are required to lynch.

Deadline falls on Saturday June 5 at 17:14 UTC.

Alta has been prodded.

[remouk]

@remouk

Do you still find Incognito most suspicious after his reply to your case on him

Yes. That's why I keep my vote there. I do understand the strategy but I still find this scummy for the reasons I explained in my last post.

Am I the only one to think that way?

[ThatTumblweed]

@remouk

The only one who is admitting that they think that way, at least.

[Leech]

Picked up my Prod. Sorry about the delay guys, I've been extraordinarily busy. I'll do a quick re-read and give my thoughts.

[Incognito]

I don't really find remouk to be suspicious right now like some of the others have mentioned. There might be some WIFOM involved in this read, but I just wouldn't expect a pro-scum newbie to push on a pro-town IC the way remouk has done with me here. And I'm getting the feeling that he genuinely believes that what I did was a scum-tell even though, as I've mentioned before, I'm positive that he's wrong in this case.

remouk, do you have any thoughts about the other players outside of me and Earlder1? You mentioned you don't really have anything to add about them - why is that? Do you not have a read on them?

-~-~-~

I'm feeling a bit more content with having my vote where it is right now. I'm not too crazy about the fact that after receiving a good amount of pressure from a bunch of people, Earlder1 has seemed to vanish from the thread. I'm modding him in my Mini Theme game right now, and I will note that I did have to prod him there over the weekend, but he was still active there up until at least Thursday, which is about the time that he last posted here.

I don't like how he's saying he suspects Remouk even when earlier he didn't, with no reason to really become suspicious of Remouk during that time(this happened before Remouk's weak vote)

I questioned him about this before - what did you think about his explanation?


Eager to see more from Leech and Alta (or his eventual replacement).

[Nikanor]

Vote Count 1.8

Earlder1 (3)

- brianj, Incognito, LordChronos

remouk (1)

- Alta

Coach Travis (1)

- Earlder1

Incognito (1)

- remouk

Alta (1)

- Coach Travis

Not Voting (2)

- Leech, ThatTumblweed

With nine players alive, five votes are required to lynch.

Deadline falls on Saturday June 5 at 17:14 UTC.

Earlder1 has been prodded.

[Coach Travis]

@Incognito:It still wasn't much of an explanation, since he wasn't that suspicious of Remouk at first, then only became a bit more suspicious after a couple more posts, didn't post for a while, and all of a sudden he returns to say Remouk is his only suspect. Either way, he clearly hasn't been putting much effort into this game so far, and that alone is suspicious, because even though this has been a slow game, Alta's been one of the least active here.

[Nikanor]

Vote Count 1.9

Earlder1 (3)

- brianj, Incognito, LordChronos

remouk (1)

- Alta

Coach Travis (1)

- Earlder1

Incognito (1)

- remouk

Alta (1)

- Coach Travis

Not Voting (2)

- Leech, ThatTumblweed

With nine players alive, five votes are required to lynch.

Deadline falls on Saturday June 5 at 17:14 UTC.

brianj has been prodded.

[Incognito]

Coach Travis: ah, ok. Previously you had said that Alta had mentioned that he wasn't suspicious of remouk

at all

but in your most recent post, you seem to correct that and mention that he was initially suspicious of him but just hasn't given thoughts on anything outside of him. That's why I questioned you about it.

The rest of what you've said is accurate though.

[LordChronos]

Really not liking the utter lack of anything at all from Leech and Alta.

Incog, what do you think of ThatTumblweed's play thus far?

[Earlder1]

Well, sorry about the delay guys, I've beed prodded lol.

But like Incog said, I haven't had much time for my other game either so I hope this isn't seen as a scum tell. So I've read through the thread and such and I have my reads. They are as follows.

brianj- I'm a bit weary about his play. As I'm sure will be agreed with, I was an easy target because my mistaken comments. In post 103, he also seems to be trying a bit hard to appease everybody. He says he agrees with both sides and fails to really have an opinion on anyone but myself. I'd like to see some more content from him, but for now he reads slightly scummy.

Incog- Well, I think he's pretty pro-town, but I'm also very cautious about saying that about the ICs. These are the most experienced players and therefore can be very good at deceiving, such as his scum record implies. His play does strike me as town because I do understand his reasonjing against me and his reasoning about unexplained votes. So, I would say he's leaning town but I would not be surprised if he's just a good player.

LordChronos- I honestly have no read on you. I am going to have to iso your posts but I can't remember anything off of the bat that would set you as either scum or town. Lol, you can even ask Incog because I tried to "track" you in my other game, only to realize that you are in my newbie game, not my mini one. That being said, I really don't know what to think about your play. Hopefully I will get more of a feel for it soon enough.

Alta- I'd say he is the most unmemorable player. He definitely needs to post more before anythin can be said about him so I would peg him as neutral for now. I need to especially go back and find where he contradicts himself so that I can get a better feel for Coach Travis's case against him. But, for now, I will leave him as a big "?".

Coach Travis- Well, he's an interesting fellow and is currently where my vote resides. He says that he is more of a reactive player than aggressive, which is fine but it makes the game harder. He then proceeds to say Remouk's case is weak (which it is) and then gives a decent analysis of Alta and why his play doesn't sit well with him. After reading his most recent posts, I actually get more of a town vibe from him. His last post especially makes me think he may be town. I get a leaning town read on him.

Unvote

Earlder1- is town .

Remouk- His case agaisnt Incog is pretty bad, but I sympathise with him in that it may be due to inexperience. Honestly, there is stronger evidence against me than there is Incog (although I'm glad he doesn't suspect me). That being said, I give him more of a newb-read, although he uses that as an excuse quite frequently. Just that fact makes me a bit uneasy, but for now I will report him as neutral.

Leech- Post more. I like your first post however, because it was full of good analysis, which is always pro-town. So yeah, post more but I am leaning him toward town for now.

Tumbleweed-I think she is town and I don't think anyone can find anything to disagree with that lol. Maybe that is how I looked in my first game, but I just get a straight town vibe from her.

So in recap, I have prepared the following list in terms of how scummy I think everyone is, 1 being most scummy.
1. Brianj
2. Lord Chronos
2. Alta
2. Remouk
5. Incog
6. Coach Travis
7. Leech
8. Earlder1 lolz
9. Tumbleweed

With this in mind

Vote: Brianj

.

[Coach Travis]

Alright, so now that Earlder1 has delivered his big post, I feel a bit better about leaving my vote off of him, as he actually made an effort to help in that post. I pretty much agree with him about Incognito, Tumblweed, Leech and Remouk.

Though so far I'm getting a townie vibe from LC, as he has been trying to help at points, and hasn't done anything terribly suspicious so far. I know he's experienced and all so the same thing applies to him as to Incognito, but so far I do get a townie vibe from both of them.

I actually haven't noticed much about Brianj either way:He has been posting at a decent pace, but I haven't found much on him to make me feel strongly about him, so I'll definitely go and read back through his posts, to see if I can get a clue as to what Earlder 1 is seeing in him, because at first glance he seems unremarkable.

And I'm still somewhat suspicious of Earlder1 due to his early play, but I'd say his most recent post puts him behind Remouk on my suspect list.

So far my listing would be this:

1.Alta
2.Remouk
3.Earlder 1
4.Leech(not overly suspicious, just really needs to do something)
5.Brianj
6Incog
7.LC
8.Tumblweed

[brianj]

I've been prodded; will post my analysis as well.