Mini 917 -- Precision Mafia (Game Over)

[Seacore]

I think the scenarios in the pre-game Mod posts indicate that a lynch cannot be stopped by overvoting. If everyone goes into PR debt some day, the lynch will happen as usual, but all night actions will fail. Please correct me if you understand differently.

There's a "stopped lynch" scenario that shows a lynch can be prevented by debt.

[Iecerint]

O. I totally missed that.

Well, that makes fifi look even worse (because of the waste-looks-townie rheoric), and makes setup-breaking look worse.

[Cruciare]

Excerpt from the Anthem of East Europan Imperial Alliance

Forward we march
To conquer those who defile the graves of our fathers
For the everlasting glory of the Emperor, king of kings

♪ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlIrMt6vicw ♪

(Can we still pretend that it's Valkyria Chronicles Mafia? =P)

But seriously, my opinion on CP is 'use as necessary', i.e. don't worry about conserving or wasting - if you need to use it then use it, if you don't need to use it then don't use it. I agree with Iecerint's point about not discussing CP usage in great detail, the vanillas will go "YEAH" and the power roles will go "NO WAI".

I don't know what Almaster is getting all wild about. I don't think there's anything wrong about optimal play speculation instead of so-called 'scumhunting' at this point in the game. I mean the only 'content' by which anyone could really 'scumhunt' at this point is Fifi's vote (of which I await the answer to the million dollar "why" question). I'm not liking how Almaster's throwing around the word 'scumhunt' and 'scumhunting' like we're supposed to have found the scum already (and it's not like anyone else is doing much more than Seacore). I mean only three players have posted more than four times.

[The1fifi]

1 - Why I voted? Cause i am a recent player, never played with CP system, therefore did not remembered to use you resourceful, altough never seen by me tactic, of the bold FoS.

2 - Really, i know its harder for scum to win than it is to town, but is the scum team already looking for an easy victory, by breaking the setup?

3 - Everyone jumped on the wagon pretty quickly. quick acting is defenitely not good, cause takes you to many misunderstandings, i.e lynch a townie, unless you want that misunderstanding, read mysslinch to happen.

FoS on Icerynt for trying to make me look 100% scum only after less than 4 or 5 posts from me..

[Iecerint]

(Can we still pretend that it's Valkyria Chronicles Mafia? =P)

OK by me. But, given that, did you just claim scum with the Imperial chant? Or Selvaria - SK?

1fifi's comeback post does nothing to change my opinion of him. Should add that I only stay in RVS until I see any kind of case on someone; your behavior qualified.

[Seacore]

@fifi

So you didn't even look at the major difference in this set up?

What kind of asset are you to the town if that's the case? And don't start pointing fingers at people who apparently leapt to attack you. None of us voted, we all just pointed out the scummiest thing somebody had done by far.

Some of us FOS'd, others just mentioned your scuminess, and we did so quickly because it's the only thing that has really happened. But did you see anybody vote for you? No. because we were waiting for you to explain.

And lets get this right, your defence so far is

1) You didn't read the posts prior to yours or the set up
2) People are scummy for pointing out your bad action
3) People who are discussing the set up are scummy as well.

So has anybody posted yet who isn't scum? Apart from you?

[AlmasterGM]

I see no reason to delay this wagon.

Vote: The1fifi

[Fate]

I like the "lynch the VI who used CP on a random vote" wagon.

As for all the 'discussion' about trying to use CPs to determine roles, I don't think it will fly. This is because of "Commander" roles.

Even if we all vote 3 times, the scum commander will have enough CP left to NK. All we will have done is make it harder for our PR to action, assuming we have multiple but only 1 commander for bonus points.

I can't see any real way to outsmart the setup, but maybe strategies and uses for this system will come to our minds as we get used to it.

We have around 34 points right now (as a whole, not including teams) and it only takes 7 points to lynch.

So we gotta be precise with our wagons. We can get in a few today.

Vote: The1fifi

for terrible play. Makes a post that makes barely any sense but shows he has indeed read the rules for CP, and should have been more careful with it.

[popsofctown]

FoS of lynchery: The1fifi

You can totally obviate the voting issue by waiting to unofficially tally a majority who have made a commitment to lynch someone, then having all those people who committed vote. There is no risk of ever voting a wagon that won't come to fruition that way.



I don't know if anyone has picked up on this, but we can halflynch someone giving them an ultimatum that they squander X CP in a vote/unvote cycle, or get lynched. If it's scum, which hopefully it is that's what you'd aim this sort of thing at, they lose nightkills/actions. If it's town, it could hurt a bit, but we'd probably still get the lynch and most of our actions.

This would be an option if there are two people in the town acting really scummy. We halflynch one, then half lynch the other.

[fhqwhgads]

if fifi is scum, he's wasting scum points. Let him. Scum need points to function. Town just needs to find and lynch scum. Let's not let the setup obscure the fact that the best way to find scum is dayplay.

This. Also, the let's waste our CP until only one is left theory is shot by the fact that we don't actually know exactly how much CP we have.

Fixed

LOL

In Day 3, people were going back to my thoughts and using them to try and win.

Thus satisfying your win condition. Cool. Carry on.

It's not just the scum that are going to be stingy. Any power roles that exist are going to try to conserve for themselves.

By that reasoning, it also means that commanders will be less reluctant to conserve CP.

Bloody hell, can we get over this "your trying to break the game" "na ah! YOUR trying to break the game" dispute? It's distracting my scumhunting. Seacore & AlmasterGM, stop bussing so hard.

[Cruciare]

(Can we still pretend that it's Valkyria Chronicles Mafia? =P)

OK by me. But, given that, did you just claim scum with the Imperial chant? Or Selvaria - SK?

Pfft, you can have the baker and the wildlife freak and the bar singer and the rest of those Squad 7 noobs, see how you fare against Selvaria and my uber-OP land battleships.

1 - Why I voted? Cause i am a recent player, never played with CP system, therefore did not remembered to use you resourceful, altough never seen by me tactic, of the bold FoS.

2 - Really, i know its harder for scum to win than it is to town, but is the scum team already looking for an easy victory, by breaking the setup?

3 - Everyone jumped on the wagon pretty quickly. quick acting is defenitely not good, cause takes you to many misunderstandings, i.e lynch a townie, unless you want that misunderstanding, read mysslinch to happen.

FoS on Icerynt for trying to make me look 100% scum only after less than 4 or 5 posts from me..

Siii~gh, it's a VI who can't speak English properly. Traditionally I've been against the lynch of VIs (because VI wagons are too easy for scum to hop on), but the last two times I campaigned against their lynches they turned out to be scum - maybe I should take the hint XD. I'm not in any kind of hurry though, there's no gain in using up CP right away and no loss in using pseudo-votes (e.g. FoS) instead. I've been getting scum-trying-too-hard-to-be-aggressive vibes from Almaster, so his presence on the Fifi wagon does worry me. Happy to pursue Fifi lynch today (it's not preferable to have VIs live too long), but if Fifi flips town I'd be even happier to pursue Almaster lynch tomorrow.

Lynch FoS: The1fifi

On another note, I don't like Seacore's #55. It resembles scum trying to bus his scumbuddy after realising that the lynch of said scumbuddy is inevitable.

[fhqwhgads]

Siii~gh, it's a VI who can't speak English properly. Traditionally I've been against the lynch of VIs (because VI wagons are too easy for scum to hop on), but the last two times I campaigned against their lynches they turned out to be scum - maybe I should take the hint XD.

Yeah, the problem with VI's are that we tend to discard them and everything they do/say is seen as a null-tell. It basically makes it impossible to pin them when they are scum.

[The1fifi]

Ok, i think that my mystake created a lot of fuss

@Cruciare: I am sorry about my English, but as you can see by my Location, I am Portuguese. I try my bet and i believe its understandable.


@Seacore: I read the set-up, i just didn't realize that wasting a vote would make such an impact on town points. I don't see a noob mistake pointing me as scum. As you said, its the only thing that happened! Isn't this the kind of situation scum enjoys, everyone focused on one player, so early on!?

@Almaster : You worry me. You post like 3 times, do no analyzis, and the only thing you actually do is "Yeh, kill him quick". You don't see a reason to "delay this wagon"? I take it from there you are 100% sure i am scum then.

[McGriddle]

Wow, this game certainly got punched into overdrive rather quickly lol.

[Iecerint]

Selvaria is my goddess, but I'm afraid I have dark hair. Crumb4U.

[popsofctown]

Siii~gh, it's a VI who can't speak English properly.

Proficiency with a second language is not correlated with general intelligence. Don't bash on someone because they don't share your native language. That's ignorant.

[AlmasterGM]

Happy to pursue Fifi lynch today (it's not preferable to have VIs live too long), but if Fifi flips town I'd be even happier to pursue Almaster lynch tomorrow.

Why would fifi flipping town (which he probably won't) mean I'm likely to be scum?

Bloody hell, can we get over this "your trying to break the game" "na ah! YOUR trying to break the game" dispute? It's distracting my scumhunting. Seacore & AlmasterGM, stop bussing so hard.

It's not really a dispute so much as it is Seacore being scum. Even after the "dispute," all he's done is go, "LOL let me get on the obvwagon." But whatever floats your boat.

P.S. Your name is annoying as hell to manually quote.

k, i think that my mystake created a lot of fuss

@Cruciare: I am sorry about my English, but as you can see by my Location, I am Portuguese. I try my bet and i believe its understandable.

@Seacore: I read the set-up, i just didn't realize that wasting a vote would make such an impact on town points. I don't see a noob mistake pointing me as scum. As you said, its the only thing that happened! Isn't this the kind of situation scum enjoys, everyone focused on one player, so early on!?

@Almaster : You worry me. You post like 3 times, do no analyzis, and the only thing you actually do is "Yeh, kill him quick". You don't see a reason to "delay this wagon"? I take it from there you are 100% sure i am scum then.

Allow me to refresh your memory on the progression of events:

You: Vote.
Us: Why are you RVing when the setup clearly penalizes it? Mistake, right?
You: No, I did it intentionally.
Us: …

I seriously cannot think of a single excuse for this AT ALL. How could you NOT read the setup even after we questioned you on it the first time?

[The1fifi]

You just dont want to understand it!!! I said my RVS was intencional, but i didn't realize it would be so bad to spend points. You really are framing me here!

[Seacore]

all he's done is go, "LOL let me get on the obvwagon

So you can do it and it's town
I do it and it's scum?

Good to know. I value your consistency

[Cobalt]

PRO QUESTION FOR ALMASTER: how does trying to find a breaking strategy for town make seacore scum?

[Cruciare]

Proficiency with a second language is not correlated with general intelligence. Don't bash on someone because they don't share your native language. That's ignorant.

The VI bit and the can't speak English properly bit are entirely separate points. English isn't my native language either.

Why would fifi flipping town (which he probably won't) mean I'm likely to be scum?

You've been acting pretty scummy IMO, but if Fifi's scum then you're probably not. I prioritise Fifi's lynch over yours because I have a hard time playing with people like him (see Fhq's #61).

Wow, this game certainly got punched into overdrive rather quickly lol.

Hi McGriddle, how are you? Do you have anything not-useless to say?

[McGriddle]

Proficiency with a second language is not correlated with general intelligence. Don't bash on someone because they don't share your native language. That's ignorant.

The VI bit and the can't speak English properly bit are entirely separate points. English isn't my native language either.

Why would fifi flipping town (which he probably won't) mean I'm likely to be scum?

You've been acting pretty scummy IMO, but if Fifi's scum then you're probably not. I prioritise Fifi's lynch over yours because I have a hard time playing with people like him (see Fhq's #61).

Wow, this game certainly got punched into overdrive rather quickly lol.

Hi McGriddle, how are you? Do you have anything not-useless to say?

Lol not really besides the theory that the people voting carelessly are probably not scum, except for the initial voter.

[popsofctown]

Could you explain that statement?

[Iecerint]

"Fifi is scum; the people voting him are not."

That is how I read it.

[Iecerint]

BTW -- V/LA until Monday morning. I'll be skiing.

Noted. Have fun!