SWN II: The Curse of the Nekomata (Game over!)

[sykedoc]

Honestly, syke doesn't seem to be making any sense to me right now. You really have no reads 10 pages into the thread? I even have a few at this point and I'm usually pretty bad on those myself.
Stubbornness to actively not contribute even when called out for it is also making my scumdar go off.

I had "reads" by your definition, but I dont consider it a read until i feel i can substantiate my claim of why someone is scummy

Syke also overreacted to a small number of votes, already worried about a hammer that is several votes away. I don't see a townie being worried about being at L-8 or so.

How many times do I need to repeat myself? I've seen scumwagons hammer faster than you can say "die".

Eek, what makes Pom's case bad? I understand that meta cases are generally weak and would probably agree with you on that, but the case wasn't based solely on syke's scummy meta, but his actions he claims to be justified by his meta

.

Its based on exactly (1) game out of 8 or 9 other games. Nobody has brought up how any other game except that one game makes me look bad. This is a terrible use of meta.

[RayFrost]

Ray, what made you change your policy lynch vote from ace to DeathNote? If you want both of them policy lynched anyways, what has made you decide you want DN lynched even more than ace? (personally if I had to choose between the two I'd pick ace just because of how annoying his posts are to read because of his claimed post restriction )

I'm no longer policy lynching DN.

He's scum.

[wolframnhart]

Ok I looked at DN and in his 5 posts I don't see how he is scum, i don't even see how he is scummier then datadanne.

[Anon]

Wait, wait, wait.

I want the people who are saying sykedoc's case is crap and such, to explain why you dont think he is scummy after:

- Blatant fence-sitting. Typical scum behavior trying to survive only pushing when necessary. (Sykedoc has already behaved like this as scum).

- Refusing to give opinions but when pressured by Llama, ta-dá, a full list of opinions magically emerge of notepad. Guess you didnt want to get fluff angry.

- Overreacting to 5 votes. Really?

- Also, I dont buy the softclaim OH YOU ARE GOING TO BE SO WRONG WHEN YOU LYNCH A POWER ROLE.

Power roles that are at 5 votes and are not even threatened to lynch DONT start screaming they are power roles because that paints a huge target on their asses. Most likely this is a scum appeal to emotion that its even terribly implemented.

The meta case I found is just confirmation of something sykedoc has already done as scum.

We have scum here people.

[sykedoc]

Wait, wait, wait.

I want the people who are saying sykedoc's case is crap and such, to explain why you dont think he is scummy after:

- Blatant fence-sitting. Typical scum behavior trying to survive only pushing when necessary. (Sykedoc has already behaved like this as scum).

- Refusing to give opinions but when pressured by Llama, ta-dá, a full list of opinions magically emerge of notepad. Guess you didnt want to get fluff angry.

- Overreacting to 5 votes. Really?

- Also, I dont buy the softclaim OH YOU ARE GOING TO BE SO WRONG WHEN YOU LYNCH A POWER ROLE.

Power roles that are at 5 votes and are not even threatened to lynch DONT start screaming they are power roles because that paints a huge target on their asses. Most likely this is a scum appeal to emotion that its even terribly implemented.

The meta case I found is just confirmation of something sykedoc has already done as scum.

We have scum here people.

I like how you avoid that I fence sat in plenty of other games. Its just a bad habit, its not a scumtell. Of course, you had no desire to dig deeper than one game, because if you were sly enough with quotes you could manipulate having only one game as proof. I explained my reaction to five votes OVER AND OVER. You just don't care to listen.
The softclaim has a lot to do with the fact that I don't care if I die.

You're far scummier than Kairyuu. You're clearly manipulating the fact that nothing besides a single game of mine supports you. Your claims are weak.

Unvote
Vote Anon

[DocPotter]

Personally Anon, I always worry when people say "If you get me to L-2 ask for my role and I can make you look silly for crusading." and "I've seen scumwagons hammer faster than you can say die."

Especially at what, L-8.

Which in my head conflicts with him saying that he's cautious with his votes/reads. I'm kinda cautious although not to the extent that skyedoc seems to be.

Then there was the threat around iso 4 or 5.

Vote skyedoc

Something here feels scummy and I think it's him.

fos NUL, Kyle

2 days, they should have posted again by now.

Ray, your policy lynch idea is starting to look better.

[Anon]

Right, we can add OMGUS to the scumtells listed in my last post.

Sykedoc, then why in HELL didnt you link me to these games where you exhibit this "bad habit"?

Sykedoc can you link me to some games you've played as town? I'll let you choose the ones that express similar behavior to the way you are playing here.

[sykedoc]

Right, we can add OMGUS to the scumtells listed in my last post.

Sykedoc, then why in HELL didnt you link me to these games where you exhibit this "bad habit"?

Sykedoc can you link me to some games you've played as town? I'll let you choose the ones that express similar behavior to the way you are playing here.

Some are on my wiki. I'm sure you knew that since you clearly dug through my game history anyway. I think if you're going to bring up ONE game, you best be ready to bring up the others. Again, the sample size is FAR too small. Check Mean Mod Lovefest. I was fence sitting and got endgamed. I was town. So your "fence sitting is obvscum" reasoning is completely off base.

Anon. If you are going to look through someone's game history, don't just look at one game. I mean I could probably dig through yours and find something that makes you look bad too. That would be only taking into account one occasion where there are many.

Also just because someone thinks you're scummy doesn't mean its OMGUS.

You've had a vote on me for awhile, it wasn't until just now that I decided to vote you.

"An OMGUS vote means a player vote another player simply because that player voted him - a vote back. "

"OMGUS stands for "Oh My God, You Suck (for voting for me)!". it is sometimes used as a shorthand to indicate that you are voting for someone primarily because they voted for you. "

I clearly gave reasoning for my vote.

You're clearly manipulating the fact that nothing besides a single game of mine supports you.

I like how you avoid that I fence sat in plenty of other games. Its just a bad habit, its not a scumtell. Of course, you had no desire to dig deeper than one game, because if you were sly enough with quotes you could manipulate having only one game as proof. I explained my reaction to five votes OVER AND OVER. You just don't care to listen.

People seem to believe that if you have someone voted, regardless of the reason if they vote you back its OMGUS. Don't attempt to twist this.

If you're diligent enough to look at my games, look at more than one. I defy you to find another example outside of that one game.

[LlamaFluff]

- Refusing to give opinions but when pressured by Llama, ta-dá, a full list of opinions magically emerge of notepad. Guess you didnt want to get fluff angry.

Apeasing a dominant force is a smart tell. Anyways, I got what I wanted out of him. He gave some reads, and just is one of those playstyles (that really bugs me) who never votes.

- Overreacting to 5 votes. Really?

FoS Anon

Overreacting is not a scumtell. Saying someone is overreacting is a scumtell.

DP lynch should at least have a little steam at this point

[My Milked Eek]

Wait, wait, wait.

I want the people who are saying sykedoc's case is crap and such, to explain why you dont think he is scummy after: [...]

I feel you started with a meta case and then went from there, picking up what seemed like some scumtells when you squint your eyes a bit.

1) you ignore his full meta
2) meta cases are lame
3) your tells aren't really tells

[tubby216]

Wait, wait, wait.

I want the people who are saying sykedoc's case is crap and such, to explain why you dont think he is scummy after: [...]

I feel you started with a meta case and then went from there, picking up what seemed like some scumtells when you squint your eyes a bit.

1) you ignore his full meta
2) meta cases are lame
3) your tells aren't really tells

Isso, além de se apertar muito. Empurrando um caso de má é scummy.

vote: Anon

[Fishythefish]

The initial meta case from Anon is pretty strong for a meta case.

The defense that skye has tried to change his tactics is no defense at all. The defense that the sample size is small is more fair - so far we know that skye has played very similarly indeed to the way he did as SK once. I'd like more examples, but that still makes him more likely scum.

@skye: have you exhibited this caution over d1 reads in completed games as town?
You are currently making statements about your meta - like it's changing rapidly, it's the same as town and scum. We've got no reason to believe those statements. For anyone who has the time on their hands (maybe even me at some point), could you provide links to completed games you have started?

Soft PR claim from skye is fail, but not scummy.

Overall, I think this meta case, as it stands (pending being refuted with evidence by skye or having more added to it) would make a nice little cherry on top of a good case. It makes me marginally more suspicious of skye, but no more than that.

Anon's follow up case sucks. Responding to calls for opinions isn't scummy, overreacting isn't scummy, softclaiming isn't scummy. Fence-sitting at this stage of the game may be a tiny bit scummy, but no more than that. Imo, OMGUS isn't scummy either, but calling people on it and largely ignoring their post is.
@Anon: why did you only look at that game in constructing your case? If you didn't, how do skye's other games fit with your case?

vote:DocPotter

the worst wagoner on a bad wagon.

[DocPotter]

Overreacting is not a scumtell.

Seriously, most of the 'heat' I seem to attract lately is due to me overreacting.

Unvote

I still have a scummy feel from the skyedoc wagon and I honestly thought it was sky himself.
Just have to take a third look.

[wolframnhart]

@Doc I don't believe Llama was talking about you, he was quoting Anon when he said that, yet you immediately jump off the wagon, even more so you jump off the wagon when Fishy votes you for being the worst wagoner?

unvote, vote DocPotter

[LlamaFluff]

Overreacting is not a scumtell.

Seriously, most of the 'heat' I seem to attract lately is due to me overreacting.

Unvote

I still have a scummy feel from the skyedoc wagon and I honestly thought it was sky himself.
Just have to take a third look.

Me saying a wagon sucks make you get off it? Awesome.

Why were you voting syke?

[DeathNote]

FoS: DocPotter

He joins the wagon then hops off just because of one person saying it was a badwagon? A little dodgy, aren't we?

My vote stays on Syk and to those who think it is a bad wagon, please review with me why the wagon started.

Meta wagons suck, yes, but this is not a meta wagon. Syk gained votes because of his attempt to active lurk. He stated early on that he had no reads yet and thus Llama pressured him to actually scum hunt. After a brief debate he finally posted a LoS, not a simply "Such-and-such is scummy" but a List of Suspicion! Thats when pressure rose and the meta case was brought up. Now he spams three posts at a time looking like scum caught on L-1 when he is still has at least 8 more votes to go.

This is my case on Syk, and for the moment, it is the best case.

[sykedoc]

Now he spams three posts at a time looking like scum caught on L-1 when he is still has at least 8 more votes to go

You'll find I do this a lot anyway. Another bad habit of mine. I can try to tone it down but I can't assure you of this.

@skye: have you exhibited this caution over d1 reads in completed games as town?
You are currently making statements about your meta - like it's changing rapidly, it's the same as town and scum. We've got no reason to believe those statements. For anyone who has the time on their hands (maybe even me at some point), could you provide links to completed games you have started?

I made the statement that I'm trying to make both my plays similar. Its hard to see this because there have been long gaps in my playing time. What I'm trying to say is a single game is barely significant to predict my entire pattern of behavior. Its hard for me to give you examples because I was barely playing games from D1 previously. Though, your case is more fair than I've seen from Anon's case. His case against me feels scummy because it seems like he's trying to manipulate a piece of information. You aren't basing everything on that one piece of info, and I see your point is fair but you should be a bit more worried about people who aren't here at all after posting once or twice than me if you're considering active lurkers.

I still have a scummy feel from the skyedoc wagon and I honestly thought it was sky himself.
Just have to take a third look.

You seem odd to me. You're being really vague.

[LlamaFluff]

FoS ace

Stop lurking. You have been on site and my questions are really easy to answer if you arent faking a PR

[DocPotter]

So sue me for being honest.

DN, three people.

Jumping on a wagon, as you put it, that two people (I think it was) had already left is not wagon jumping. How can it be real wagon jumping to jump on a collapsing wagon? It's me placing a vote where I think there's something scummy. LLama, and MME and Tubby however make me think I voted early, hence unvote and take annother look.

Yes I know most of LLama's post was directed at Anon, but part of Anon's case against Skye is his fence sitting, which is something I know I do early in larges. Same with overreacting, which I seem to do in any game. (Go check if you want. The Troll's post in the Mafia Discussion is partly directed at me for doing just that)

There is someting scummy there with that Skyedoc wagon, or so my gut says. I'm just not sure what yet.

[StrangerCoug]

Taking the game back over (thanks Tar!) and doing a vote count.

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE COUNT

Anon (2): sykedoc, tubby216
DeathNote (2): Datadanne, RayFrost
DocPotter (2): LlamaFluff, wolframnhart
Kairyuu (1): Fishythefish
Parama (2): Sanhora, ace5993
RayFrost (2): animorpherv1, SaintKerrigan
sykedoc (3): Anon, Kairyuu, DeathNote
Not voting (11):, Bogre, DedicatedScribe, kyle99, MafiaSSK, My Milked Eek, Nul, pman5595, xuie77, Parama, Pomegranate, DocPotter

With

25

players alive, it takes

13

votes to lynch.

Count corrected as per post #272 below.

FishytheFish's vote at #261 does not count as he didn't unvote Kairyuu first. Bogre,

Dedicated Scribe

(mistyped his name in the prodding app—my bad), and xuie77 are prodded.

[animorpherv1]

For now, I'm going to

unvote

. In my opinion, none of the cases are really strong enough for me to vote on yet.

[wolframnhart]

Stranger I think you missed my vote on DocPotter SO just in case:

unvote, vote DocPotter

[StrangerCoug]

Stranger I think you missed my vote on DocPotter SO just in case:

unvote, vote DocPotter

What happened was that I put your vote in backwards, i.e. as DocPotter voting you. I'll fix it.

[Bogre]

I'll be catching up here soon...this game has exploded and I've been trying to get up to speed in my other ones first.