Mini 912 - Little Golden Mafia (OVER)

[Phlight]

I think the whole plight hydra situation depends on the nature of the way they post, if they just log on individually and post without consulting each other then with two quite possibly different opinions there's a good chance Plight's posts are going to be riddled with inconsistencies, which means we're not going to be sure if it's because plight is scum or just the nature of the hydra.

If however they consult with each other before each post, and point out in the thread when they disagree on something then I think it would be fine. It's only the second page so it's kind of hard to say either way.

@Plight: with regards to what I've said could you clear up the way you two will be posting?

So whatever messups they make, unless they say beforehand its bcuz they're hydras, we can take it as a scumtell.

Exactly. As I explained before now, if one of us screws up, I have to accept it as a post with which I disagree, but I cannot simply write it off as irrelevant. For example, if my role is scum and one of us decided to say "I'm scum" (probably through obvious scum tells), then how would it be sensible to not lynch me if I say "Oh, that was just Light-kun. Phate here to say he's just an idiot and to ignore it?" If I were Dram or someone else, I would almost definitely lynch the hydra anyway or push hard for it.

The fact that I am two people doesn't change how my posts should be perceived. If I talk between my two parts before hand, it would be similar to going over one's post in your mind to ensure that you post what you intend to post. If done afterward and my post is blatantly wrong, stupid, or scummy, I would expect the town to punish me for it and not allow the excuse of "hydra" to come up much less be validated. To allow such excuses to be accepted is very anti town, and the following confusion would be pro-scum.

As for signing, how would it help? I could simplify things and sign every single post "Phate" but how would that help? It would tell you nothing and I will still be behind one name regardless of who I really am, and to the end your defending, nothing's changed. My point is:
No, I will not sign each post with what part is currently posting.
No, the fact I am a hydra doesn't change whether my posts are scummy or not.
And Scribe, I see your point about the RVS, but still, would you say something must occur in the RVS for it to end? Or is it just that this one time is an exception that it should be more than a hydra discussion and opinion?

VOTE COUNT:

chamber (1) - Trumpet of Doom
DedicatedScribe (2) - Phlight, MacavityLock
dramonic (0) -
kunkstar7 (0) -
Limerickx (1) - Kunkstar7
lobstermania (1) - dramonic
MacavityLock (0) -
Panzerjager (1) - peanutman
peanutman (2) - totallynotmafia, DedicatedScribe
Phlight (0) -
totallynotmafia (1) - lobstermania
Trumpet of Doom (1) - Limerickx

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[PJ.]

Hi, /confirm since I never did so before.

First, I would like to say

FoS:MacavityLock

This is a serious FoS
Now, arguing about the hydra has distracted us from scum hunting already and it's only page 3, so let's end this.

Phlight will not be signing his post because doing so opens up the possibility to more easily say that "X said ___ which was not endorsed by Y, so ___ is not a scum tell because X is just a bad player" If Phlight does not sign his post, he is showing that he is taking full responsibility of ALL post that he post and we can lynch him on any and all valid scumtells. In short, treat hydras like you would if they were a single person. Phlight is a "him" not a "they". All scumtells are scumtells. All bad plays are bad plays. Anyone saying otherwise I'll assume is trying to distract the town with pointless arguement.

Now for Dedicated Scribe,

No I mean why you don't sig your hydra posts because you like confusing people.

A. Everything I've done to this point has been to end the RVS more quickly and effectively.

B. But arguing about the ethics of hydras and whether they should sig...won't really bring much to the table.

Macavity, I want more info.

bolding and lettering were done by Panzerjager

Bolded A and Bolded B contradict each other. Everything you have done can be summed up as a Random vote and argueing with Phlight about having him sign his post. So if B states that we won't be going anywhere if we argue about signing post and A states that all you have been doing is trying to get us out of RVS, then you are clearly trying to drag us into pointless conversation.

Also why were you in such a hurry to get us out of Random Voting Stage?

For the record, I agree with what Phlight was saying about the fence sitting in the post that fired off the debate and I really can't put it better than he did.

This is more than enough for me to

Vote: DedicatedScribe

[Limerickx]

I think what Phlight said makes sense. I haven't played with a Hydra before, but I imagine it would put them in a tougher position (the 'greater possibility of inconsistancies' thing.)

[MacavityLock]

Macavity, I want more info.

I voted due to your play up to that point, nothing else. If everything you've been doing so far has been to get out of the RVs, why did you random vote twice?

As for Phlight, I plan to hold that player to the same bar of consistency that I do every player. If that makes the game any harder for them, well, that's what they signed up for. That of course is offset by the benefit of two minds being better than one.

[dramonic]

V/LA for a decent part of the weekend.

[DedicatedScribe]

Hi, /confirm since I never did so before.

First, I would like to say

FoS:MacavityLock

This is a serious FoS
Now, arguing about the hydra has distracted us from scum hunting already and it's only page 3, so let's end this.

Phlight will not be signing his post because doing so opens up the possibility to more easily say that "X said ___ which was not endorsed by Y, so ___ is not a scum tell because X is just a bad player" If Phlight does not sign his post, he is showing that he is taking full responsibility of ALL post that he post and we can lynch him on any and all valid scumtells. In short, treat hydras like you would if they were a single person. Phlight is a "him" not a "they". All scumtells are scumtells. All bad plays are bad plays. Anyone saying otherwise I'll assume is trying to distract the town with pointless arguement.

Now for Dedicated Scribe,

No I mean why you don't sig your hydra posts because you like confusing people.

A. Everything I've done to this point has been to end the RVS more quickly and effectively.

B. But arguing about the ethics of hydras and whether they should sig...won't really bring much to the table.

Macavity, I want more info.

bolding and lettering were done by Panzerjager

Bolded A and Bolded B contradict each other. Everything you have done can be summed up as a Random vote and argueing with Phlight about having him sign his post. So if B states that we won't be going anywhere if we argue about signing post and A states that all you have been doing is trying to get us out of RVS, then you are clearly trying to drag us into pointless conversation.

Also why were you in such a hurry to get us out of Random Voting Stage?

For the record, I agree with what Phlight was saying about the fence sitting in the post that fired off the debate and I really can't put it better than he did.

This is more than enough for me to

Vote: DedicatedScribe

Obviously that was me trying to rethink the situation. I was slightly annoyed that the RVS was still continuing after our discussion on hydras took place, so I decided to try and do something else to bring up another RVS-ending convo. But now we have ended the RVS, thanks to a "useless convo".

This is because we moved from a useless convo to determining whether this useless convo was a scumtell. I was afraid that the hydra thing had not yet ended the RVS, so I just randomly bandwagoned.

The RVS exists to end. If we spent the entire day in RVS, nothing would happen. Something must happen to end it.

[DedicatedScribe]

Pretty sure that explains everything.

Also, that fence sitting thing is entirely situational, and is not a scumtell.

You have assume the reasons why I did it, and then whether I was scum and did it.

[PJ.]

Dude, 80% of mafia is deducting why someone would do something, or, in short, make assumptions.

[Phlight]

@Plight: with regards to what I've said could you clear up the way you two will be posting?

We don't make every post jointly. If I had a particularly important post with which I wasn't sure my other half agreed (say, a long case, or a vote analysis) I would probably post it in Notes (our Notes page is primarily how we communicate) for him to look over it, and once the day gets going and we have some strong suspicions, we'll likewise discuss them and try to bring the other 'round, but other than that and until then, we just post.

[lobstermania]

DedicatedScribe, why are you so concerned about ending the RVS asap? It will figure itself out on its own.

[DedicatedScribe]

Dude, 80% of mafia is deducting why someone would do something, or, in short, make assumptions.

i thought someone would say this. Ofc you have to make assumptions to play mafia, but not you don't base lynches on wild, unlikely assumptions. You base them on assumptions that are likely to be true.

Not really concerned about ending the RVS asap, except that it's all there is to do, except to participate in it. I'd rather my meta be for striving to end the RVS, since I don't like it.

The RVS is meant to be ended. The faster it ends, the better. Why make it last longer than it needs to?

[totallynotmafia]

@Plight: with regards to what I've said could you clear up the way you two will be posting?

We don't make every post jointly. If I had a particularly important post with which I wasn't sure my other half agreed (say, a long case, or a vote analysis) I would probably post it in Notes (our Notes page is primarily how we communicate) for him to look over it, and once the day gets going and we have some strong suspicions, we'll likewise discuss them and try to bring the other 'round, but other than that and until then, we just post.

Well if you are town I hope that you will put the same effort into avoiding inconsistencies as you would if you were scum, otherwise I can see it as being a disadvantage for the rest of us because of the greater potential of you being mislynched. Honestly though if I didn't know already, so far I wouldn't be able to tell you're a hydra.

With all that in mind, this post worries me:

I think the whole plight hydra situation depends on the nature of the way they post, if they just log on individually and post without consulting each other then with two quite possibly different opinions there's a good chance Plight's posts are going to be riddled with inconsistencies, which means we're not going to be sure if it's because plight is scum or just the nature of the hydra.

If however they consult with each other before each post, and point out in the thread when they disagree on something then I think it would be fine. It's only the second page so it's kind of hard to say either way.

@Plight: with regards to what I've said could you clear up the way you two will be posting?

So whatever messups they make, unless they say beforehand its bcuz they're hydras, we can take it as a scumtell.

This seems as if DS is setting up the precurser for that possible mislynch.

I also don't like this contradiction:

But it doesnt seem if there's been enough to end the RVS.

The RVS is meant to be ended. The faster it ends, the better. Why make it last longer than it needs to?

So it's alright to end the RVS, as long as it's not you being voted for? Care to explain that DS?

[PJ.]

Dude, 80% of mafia is deducting why someone would do something, or, in short, make assumptions.

i thought someone would say this. Ofc you have to make assumptions to play mafia, but not you don't base lynches on wild, unlikely assumptions. You base them on assumptions that are likely to be true.

Not really concerned about ending the RVS asap, except that it's all there is to do, except to participate in it. I'd rather my meta be for striving to end the RVS, since I don't like it.

The RVS is meant to be ended. The faster it ends, the better. Why make it last longer than it needs to?

It's over, you have several serious votes on you, and the assumption that you are scum is indeed very likely to be true.

[PJ.]

no posts in 12 hours and only 4 in the last 24 hours.

[totallynotmafia]

Yeah, I just made a post in my newbie game why I think inactivity hurts the town, I'm guessing I don't have to outline that here.

[PJ.]

Coming back 12 hours later to find one post about inactivity is disconcerting in my first mafia game after a 3 month break.

[DedicatedScribe]

I think its good that the RVS is over, even if you guys are voting for town. A speedlynch doesnt seem likely, and I think I can defend myself if you guys will allow.

TNM, that wasnt a contradiction at all. There were few votes on me att of that post. I'm not sure i know what precursor means, but if I'm right, then I don't see how that sets up a precursor. It's more of stating fact. I didn't say "if they make a contradiction w/o blah blah, we lynch them", but instead "we can take it as a scumtell". And wouldn't we?

Panzerjager, I tend to say that things aren't likely unless they are going to occur or are true. What do I do if all you do is assume the wrong things about my posts? All I can say is "No, I was doing this in order to..."

[PJ.]

That last sentence came off as complete jibberish to me.

[Limerickx]

With all that in mind, this post worries me:

I think the whole plight hydra situation depends on the nature of the way they post, if they just log on individually and post without consulting each other then with two quite possibly different opinions there's a good chance Plight's posts are going to be riddled with inconsistencies, which means we're not going to be sure if it's because plight is scum or just the nature of the hydra.

If however they consult with each other before each post, and point out in the thread when they disagree on something then I think it would be fine. It's only the second page so it's kind of hard to say either way.

@Plight: with regards to what I've said could you clear up the way you two will be posting?

So whatever messups they make, unless they say beforehand its bcuz they're hydras, we can take it as a scumtell.

This seems as if DS is setting up the precurser for that possible mislynch.

Or stating the obvious? Do you disagree that if Plight makes a contradiction, even if only resulting from using a hydra, that we can take it as a scumtell?

I also don't like this contradiction:

But it doesnt seem if there's been enough to end the RVS.

The RVS is meant to be ended. The faster it ends, the better. Why make it last longer than it needs to?

So it's alright to end the RVS, as long as it's not you being voted for? Care to explain that DS?

I don't see how this is a contradiction, and I also don't see how its saying what you claimed.

[dramonic]

Ugh, arguing about the RVS, talk about useless.
Phlight, just telling you, if you justify any stupid action on the fact you're a hydra, I will hunt you to the end of the world

[Phlight]

Mod: Chamber hasn't posted in 5 days and 16 hours. According to your ruleset, 72 hours of inactivity leads to a prod, with 48 hours from the prod to post. Even allowing 16 hours that you didn't notice inactivity, that's grounds for replacement. Can you confirm that you are searching for a replacement?

[Phlight]

Mod: Also, kunkstar7 and Trumpet of Doom both hit 5 days of inactivity in 2 hours, and peanutman is due for a prod. With such a lurk-friendly ruleset, would you please announce in-thread when you're prodding and searching for replacements?

[peanutman]

Limerick, I picked up on totallynotmafia's comments as well.

Well if you are town I hope that you will put the same effort into avoiding inconsistencies as you would if you were scum, otherwise I can see it as being a disadvantage for the rest of us because of the greater potential of you being mislynched. Honestly though if I didn't know already, so far I wouldn't be able to tell you're a hydra.

This it total fluff to me. Wouldn't you want every town member to avoid inconsistencies? And how is a hydra at a greater potential of being mislynched?

This seems as if DS is setting up the precurser for that possible mislynch.

Wasn't DS just saying what a few others have already said? That basically being a hydra is not an excuse.

On a side note, I think this topic has been well covered by now, and we should stop talking about how to deal with Phlight particularly and start generating relevant discussion and scum-hunting.

Yeah, I just made a post in my newbie game why I think inactivity hurts the town, I'm guessing I don't have to outline that here.

I also find this hypocritical. You post to make a point about inactivity without contributing anything new.
I try to play this game in a way that all my posts contribute to the discussion in one-way or another. Stating that there's inactivity and that's it not helpful for the town in a non-newb game doesn't seem productive to me. If things are dead, re-read the thread, post new questions, follow up on leads however slim they may be. But don't post about inactivity while essentially being inactive in the same breath.

Unvote, vote : totallynotmafia

[Trumpet of Doom]

If I had to guess at why nothing's going on, I'd generalize from my personal situation and say everyone's waiting for someone to do something else. (In related news, I tend to suck at D1s.)

So I probably ought to contribute to the discussion I kinda kicked off. I probably asked Phlight to sign their posts because I felt it might make the game easier for me somehow, although now I'm not sure what it might have been... the only thing I can think of right now is to make metagaming easier (say there's one head that's giving me strong scumvibes and one that's giving me weak townvibes; if I had time and inclination, I could look through their playing histories, see if I read one as always scum or always town, and take that into account - maybe something like "I don't particularly like posts X, Y and Z, but those are from Phate. And in games P, Q and R that had Phate in them, he was town and I wouldn't have figured it out if I wasn't told. So those posts shouldn't factor too heavily into my read on the hydra as a whole.")

@19: I guess I can see why you wouldn't feel a particular need to sign your posts. "I like confusing people" is a bit of a turn-off, but I'm sure at some point I'll be able and willing to look through y'all's game histories and figure out if that's a true statement or not. (Why yes, I

have

lived in Texas all my life. Why do you ask?)

20

definitely

feels off, and Phlight does a nice job explaining why in 21.

22: The RVS'll end when it's ready to end. You don't need to drag it out, certainly, but there's no need to rush it, either.

@everyone talking on page 2 about how Phlight disagreeing with themselves could be a scumtell... frankly, I think I'd be slightly more concerned if there

wasn't

at least some amount of disagreement. (Other scumtells, OTOH, are of course fair game.)

I'm gonna have to go with Panzer and Phlight on this.

Unvote; Vote: DedicatedScribe.

[MacavityLock]

My apologies, this game has been really dense for page 3, and I really haven't dug in deep. I should have time to do some in depth reading of this game tomorrow.