Mini 912 - Little Golden Mafia (OVER)

[lobstermania]

Hmm....DedicatedScribe finally managed to end the RVS. I'm not sure how I feel about the Mason claim. Granted, it's better than VT, it's going to take a little while for me to feel comfortable viewing him as confirmed town.
Also, I don't understand how the title of the story would affect DedicatedScribe's claim....

VOTE COUNT:

DedicatedScribe (4) - Phlight, Panzerjager, Trumpet of Doom, totallynotmafia
dramonic (0) -
kunkstar7 (0) -
Limerickx (1) - Kunkstar7
lobstermania (1) - dramonic
MacavityLock (0) -
Panzerjager (0) -
peanutman (1) - DedicatedScribe
Phlight (0) -
totallynotmafia (2) - lobstermania, peanutman
Trumpet of Doom (1) - Limerickx
Wolframnhart (0) -

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[Phlight]

Hmm....DedicatedScribe finally managed to end the RVS. I'm not sure how I feel about the Mason claim. Granted, it's better than VT, it's going to take a little while for me to feel comfortable viewing him as confirmed town.
Also, I don't understand how the title of the story would affect DedicatedScribe's claim....

Hm... rather than know the title of the story DS is, I would prefer to know what kind of information he has on his mason partner that is guaranteed. I'm going to

unvote

to think things over.

[Trumpet of Doom]

Couple of reasons for a flavor claim:

1. If he gives a story name that one of the other players has, they can call him out on it and we've hit scum on page 5.
2. I'm asking for both stories so that I can figure out whether it makes sense, flavor-wise, for those two stories to be masons together. In RBT's last game I played (Musical Mafia - Mini 709), he put a fair amount of thought into PM flavor, and I'm expecting him to have done so here as well.

Of course, I'd also like to know if he and his partner are confirmed to each other, as I've already mentioned.

[dramonic]

he said he was mason, not neighbour. Correct me if I'm wrong, but mason = confirmed, neighbour =! confirmed

[Trumpet of Doom]

I think some mods'll make them unconfirmed and call them masons anyway. Don't know how RBT'd do it, which is why we're asking.

[Phlight]

I think a fullclaim is best, excepting the name of the mason partner.

[Phlight]

Actually, don't give the partner's story name either. That's for partner to claim.

[Limerickx]

Hey all, just letting you know I wont be able to check the thread until the weekend.

[Trumpet of Doom]

I think a fullclaim is best, excepting the name of the mason partner.

Seems to me if they're confirmed town to each other, there's really no reason for him not to claim who the other is and let him confirm that. If you can think of one, I'd love to hear it.

[Phlight]

It would be a better idea to invent a heavily cryptic code that he could have the partner explain. An "obvious breadcrumb" which worked decently well in my Death Note game for L. That way, he can claim and not give the mafia information on his partner. I would like the story title of the partner and the partner to not be named.

The point still remains that giving the mafia the names of two masons, especially mutually confirmed masons, is a terrible idea. If they are not confirmed, we should still not tell mafia the connection since the mason claim is sufficient for the time being (along with other details).

[dramonic]

Well, we won't lynch him, he might as well put a code in his next post and send the solution to his partner during the night.

That way we don't out a mason and when the time comes the mason can confirm himself (preferably later in the game) without being outed to soon and NKed instantly on night 2.

[Trumpet of Doom]

...am I missing something? Here's my thinking:

I'm fairly confident two masons are not all the power we have. So if we have two confirmed masons on D1, scum have to either:
- kill the masons, which would give a cop two free nights to work and would tell a doc who to protect (at least for N2); or
- look for the other power role(s), which means they're not killing the confirmed-town masons, which means they've got confirmed town running around in lategame, which scum DO NOT WANT.

But whatever, I guess we can agree to disagree - this is as much a theory discussion as anything else, so I'm guessing those of us with reasonably strong opinions on the matter aren't going to be easily swayed by someone else's reasoning.

[peanutman]

I prefer the idea of not outing the other just yet. I do like the "obvious breadcrumb" solution, giving his partner the chance to clear himself/herself when necessary, without becoming a sitting duck for scum. I think it would be a strong advantage for us to have a confirmed townie emerge later in the game.

However, DS still hasn't gotten back to us on the questions regarding his claim (i.e. does he know his partner's alignment, is he even aligned with town?).
On that note, does anyone else find it odd that he, who was active in early game, hasn't posted since Tuesday night after his claim?

[wolframnhart]

Well being as only two other people have yet to say anything about this mason claim we need them to say something before we can move on.

[kunkstar7]

It would be a better idea to invent a heavily cryptic code that he could have the partner explain. An "obvious breadcrumb" which worked decently well in my Death Note game for L. That way, he can claim and not give the mafia information on his partner. I would like the story title of the partner and the partner to not be named.

This idea works, but it doesn't confirm his claim. If he was scum his scum partner could work just as well with this to the same effect, except we would believe that the scum were town masons. Unless I'm missing something confirmed him as mason. Could I also get a link to this game you mention, I couldn't seem to find it, I would like to see how it worked out.

[peanutman]

V/LA until Sunday. I hope that DS has answered some questions by then. It's getting on 3 days of silence since his claim.

[lobstermania]

It would be a better idea to invent a heavily cryptic code that he could have the partner explain. An "obvious breadcrumb" which worked decently well in my Death Note game for L. That way, he can claim and not give the mafia information on his partner.

This idea works, but it doesn't confirm his claim. If he was scum his scum partner could work just as well with this to the same effect, except we would believe that the scum were town masons.

I think this would have been better saved for Day Two, after the code/claim.

I don't understand how we could verify that the code was, indeed, correctly deciphered.

[Phlight]

Assuming we have a cop and a doctor is a

terrible

idea.

If he claims the name of his partner, he's just outed a power role for no reason.

Later, if the mason partner dies, he can point to the mason and be like 'that was my partner. See, now I'm confirmed.' Alternatively, if he dies and flips mason, the partner has the option of immediately claiming or waiting 'til he's close to lynch or at lylo.

Not claiming the partner's name gives the town much more strategic depth. Even if he claims his partner's name, there's still no guarantee they're masons until one dies. We don't gain anything from the name, and we lose power-roles.

[Trumpet of Doom]

Apologies in advance for Mastinizing your post, Phlight.

Assuming we have a cop and a doctor is a terrible idea.

I wasn't assuming both - hell, I wasn't even assuming we necessarily had either (there's a reason I said "a" cop/doc instead of "the" cop/doc).

Later, if the mason partner dies, he can point to the mason and be like 'that was my partner. See, now I'm confirmed.'

What? This is absolutely horrible. Confirmed to be able to nighttalk, maybe, but not alignment-confirmed, and you know it. If they're not confirmed and DS's partner dies and flips town, we don't know a thing about his (DS's) alignment. And if he says they are confirmed, I'm not going to believe it until his partner backs his claim up. (That is the primary advantage of masons, yes? To be able to say, "yes, this guy's being truthful as far as his role goes"?)

Alternatively, if he dies and flips mason, the partner has the option of immediately claiming or waiting 'til he's close to lynch or at lylo.

Same problem.

Even if he claims his partner's name, there's still no guarantee they're masons until one dies.

If his partner backs him up on it, either both of them are masons/neighbors/what-have-you or both of them are scum. (Absurd play by both parties excepted, of course.)

We don't gain anything from the name, and we lose power-roles.

...were you even reading 111? If scum go for the masons, they're giving whatever other PR(s) we have two nights to be useful. (And I'm sure we have at least one that's not the masons.)

I have trouble seeing how this impressive reading comprehension fail could come from experienced town.

HoS: Phlight

- my vote's staying on DS until he fullclaims, and it might stay there after the claim as well (it depends what he says). If I unvote DS, you're next.

[totallynotmafia]

Still waiting for DS....I'd love it if his story was "The all-alone, friendless little mute boy", and right now he's thinking "oh shit."

[dramonic]

What? This is absolutely horrible. Confirmed to be able to nighttalk, maybe, but not alignment-confirmed, and you know it. If they're not confirmed and DS's partner dies and flips town, we don't know a thing about his (DS's) alignment. And if he says they are confirmed, I'm not going to believe it until his partner backs his claim up. (That is the primary advantage of masons, yes? To be able to say, "yes, this guy's being truthful as far as his role goes"?)

Well, if he says they're confirmed to each other and he's lying, the other mason can just deny it. Voila, caught scum without revealing a PR to the scum (since in that case scum would already know that the mason partner is there)

[Trumpet of Doom]

I'm slightly confused. Is that supposed to be a response to me, dram? And if so, is it of the "ToD, you're wrong, here's why" variety?

[Trumpet of Doom]

"I'm slightly confused" might work a little better as "I'm getting mixed signals here," but I think you get the point.

[dramonic]

basically I'm saying DS should say

in his next post

if he and the other mason are confirmed to each other.

[Trumpet of Doom]

...was that ever up for debate?