Open 192: SCIENCE Mafia, Finished

[MrWhereItsAt]

Checking in while watching football, quick answer is i mostly player large theme games offsite. Ive never been in such a tiny game, so being 2 mislynches away(or even discussing LyLo) seems like an endgame situation to me.

Vote count

SaintKerrigan (2): malpascp, StrangerCoug
mykonian (1): SaintKerrigan
StrangerCoug (1): Pomegranate
Pomegranate (1): Cat
malpascp (1): mykonian

Not voting (1): MrWhereItsAt

[mykonian]

Answer my question first, please.

I find your question to be near-rhetorical (meaning you are not interested in the answer, but rather want to say a thing)

I hope this is the last time you want to hear that answer.

Now mine please

[mykonian]

and why are you having a problem with answering questions? Even if I did forget to answer something, you have nothing to hide, right?

I think you are hiding something

unvote vote SaintKerrigan

[SaintKerrigan]

I was asking a serious, non-rhetorical question, that I expect you to answer: Why is asking the town a question manipulating the town? I am rather interested in the answer to this, and your continual dodging of the question is making me suspicious of you.

As for the answers to your questions:

#1: I don't know how other people are going to answer. That was the point of asking the question. I wanted to see how people felt about what you did.

#2: I didn't intend for it to be a rhetorical question. I intended it to be a question that people gave an answer to, thus allowing me to see what people thought on the matter.

[Pomegranate]

and why are you having a problem with answering questions? Even if I did forget to answer something, you have nothing to hide, right?

I think you are hiding something

unvote vote SaintKerrigan

This is your third vote in 13 posts. You look like votehopping scum.

Unvote; Vote: Mykonian

.

[animorpherv1]

Vote count

[/size]


SaintKerrigan (3): malpascp, StrangerCoug, mykonian
mykonian (2): SaintKerrigan, Pomegranate
Pomegranate (1): Cat


Not voting (1): MrWhereItsAt

[Pomegranate]

For some reason I am unsurprised that ani posts votecounts three times a page.

[mykonian]

and why are you having a problem with answering questions? Even if I did forget to answer something, you have nothing to hide, right?

I think you are hiding something

unvote vote SaintKerrigan

This is your third vote in 13 posts. You look like votehopping scum.

Unvote; Vote: Mykonian

.

Tell me, why would scum votehop?

Esspecially when I have told everyone that I have the intention to have a fastpaced game?

[mykonian]

I was asking a serious, non-rhetorical question, that I expect you to answer: Why is asking the town a question manipulating the town? I am rather interested in the answer to this, and your continual dodging of the question is making me suspicious of you.

As for the answers to your questions:

#1: I don't know how other people are going to answer. That was the point of asking the question. I wanted to see how people felt about what you did.

#2: I didn't intend for it to be a rhetorical question. I intended it to be a question that people gave an answer to, thus allowing me to see what people thought on the matter.

at the first: We misunderstood each other: I found you manipulating the town, by asking the question what people thought about it, since that question seems to have, with this site meta, only one answer from the town, which is disturbing or scummy. Therefore, you seem to be arguing for my lynch rather then asking a serious question.

You easily avoid this with #1, when you state the obvious "I ask a question because I don't yet know". For the situation of putting someone at L-1 on page 3 I think this is

not the truth

For this reason, where you are avoiding the question by saying: "I didn't expect anything", I'll keep my vote on you.

So yes, I know that is not a normal accepted thing to do, but on the other hand, it is not scummy. It is a very quick escalation of the situation, it is maybe even opportunistic (in the way that I was waiting for a moment to make the game serious very quickly), but your argument against Mr made little sense and showed the same opportunism, grabbing the first thing you could get.

[mykonian]

BTW, pom:

I would like an answer on the question what your scumtells are.

Futher, voting density: (votes/posts)

pome 2/7
myko 3/13

if my maths are right, 3/13 is less then 2/7. So your argument is even more wrong. I still like to know why changing your vote often (or percieved often) is scummy, though.

[StrangerCoug]

Well, that was the first use of that vote.

I am very much disappointed in this town, where the reason "I would be disturbed if the lynch was on town" is a reason to unvote and

do nothing afterwards

. Seriously, I warned you 3 posts ahead that I would be doing this, and still the first reaction you have is: "Did he really do that?" followed by a reflexive "unvote".

I would be ok with SC questioning me, I would be ok, with him voting me, I would be ok with him leaving his vote, or moving it to someone completely different for whatever reason, but this is no town behaviour. SC uses his unvote to

seem

towny, as in "see how good I am, I am trying to avoid a mislynch!", while his objective should be to find scum. This is even more obvious seen that my vote actually didn't go through.

Who is more disturbing, the person eager to lynch, or the person that only unvotes, doing no scumhunting at all afterwards?

unvote vote Strangercoug

Hello? Your accusation that I decided to unvote and then stop scumhunting doesn't have as much validity when it's the post right after the unvote.

and why are you having a problem with answering questions? Even if I did forget to answer something, you have nothing to hide, right?

I think you are hiding something

unvote vote SaintKerrigan

This is your third vote in 13 posts. You look like votehopping scum.

Unvote; Vote: Mykonian

.

Tell me, why would scum votehop?

At a bare minimum, you come off as not taking your vote seriously, which is not a pro-town quality to have. Worst case scenario is that you're panicking after realizing your vote is unpopular.

On an unrelated subject, you do not defend cases against you by dodging questions, which is making me like SaintKerrigan more and you less.

Unvote: SaintKerrigan since it was missed not once, but twice (it was in post #44)
Vote: mykonian

[Pomegranate]

BTW, pom:

I would like an answer on the question what your scumtells are.

Futher, voting density: (votes/posts)

pome 2/7
myko 3/13

if my maths are right, 3/13 is less then 2/7. So your argument is even more wrong. I still like to know why changing your vote often (or percieved often) is scummy, though.

Scumtells: Being hypocritical, votehopping, backpedaling, jumping on a lot of wagons (especially late in the wagon), changing one's mind a lot, and similar things.

I think you misunderstood what I meant about voting density.

voting density:

myko: 4/17 (it was 4/14 when I made my post)
pom: 2/8

But one of my votes was random, so I only had one serious vote, and you had three. Also, (this is what I originally meant), between posts 39 and 52, you made 3 serious votes. That was the votehopping I was referring to.

In general I see votehopping as scummy because scum try to hitch themselves at the right wagons at the right times, so votehopping looks like scum trying to be on the most 'popular' wagons.

[Pomegranate]

That's L-1. No one hammer.

[mykonian]

everything in blue is defensive. If you don't think I am scum, feel free to skip or scan them.

good, pome, how often were those votes on popular wagons? once.

So, sure, following wagons is scummy, but that was not what I did, right?

And on that question, I'm sorry, but I meant it as "what are your own scumtells when playing scum?"

@SC: about the unvote, I had expected you to continue with a vote, or at least a FoS after you already observed. You didn't seem to interprete the situation, or searching for scum. I like people following their unvote with scumhunting to find a new lynch-candidate

I have not had the idea that I dodged a question. The question asked to me multiple times was why I thought SK was manipulating. I have answered the same amount of times, in hopefully clear wording that I thought his question to about what people though of my action to be not so much a question, but a way to get the subject there.

And what really gets me mad is that you somewhat imply that I don't take my vote seriously. I thought I was the one that has argued to make those votes serious as soon as possible, and you were the ones that disagreed. I use my vote to express my suspicions, sure, but is that scummily hopping or showing your stances.

Because don't you worry, I have been serious about all (but the random) votes. The difference in how convincing those votes are is in the reasoning. Further, I think there has barely been someone that commented on my case on you (what a shame), so panic it wasn't there. And my vote returned to SK, so the panic hypothesis is out of the window, I think.

So people, seriously, I have no three votes for voting 4 times, putting someone at L-1, and accusing 2 people and arguing for shorter day's within 3 pages. BUT, all but the L-1 vote have been very well reasoned, and there has been no attacks on that. The question why a lot of voting meant I am scum was answered that it could very well be antitown, if I wasn't serious about them: I think my reasoning with the votes shows differently.

Mind if I have a few questions for you? (and people not yet here, feel free to answer later)

what did you think of:

StK's answer that he didn't know what to expect from his question what everybody thought about my L-1 vote?
SC's unvote without anything else
Mr's post which only answered a question, after which he went out again.
Pome's voting density argument

[Pomegranate]

Myko, I will respond to your post hopefully later tonight. It requires a lot of rereading and analyzing. But as I definitely don't want you hammered,

Unvote

.

[mykonian]

Myko, I will respond to your post hopefully later tonight. It requires a lot of rereading and analyzing. But as I definitely don't want you hammered,

Unvote

.

Take your time, It'll probably be 18 hours before I read it.

[animorpherv1]

And here I was thinking I'm a great mod. Also, I post Vote counts like 3x a page to keep updated, so I don't forget.

Vote count

mykonian (2): SaintKerrigan, StrangerCoug
SaintKerrigan (2): malpascp, mykonian
Pomegranate (1): Cat


Not voting (1): MrWhereItsAt

[Pomegranate]

And here I was thinking I'm a great mod.

Don't worry, you are.

[SaintKerrigan]

Mod: Pomegranate unvoted Mykonian.

[animorpherv1]

Mod: Pomegranate unvoted Mykonian.

Thanks.

[mykonian]

18 hours past and the mod made just as many posts as the rest of the game...

For anyone that will come here, could you answer the 4 questions at the end of my post 63.

[SaintKerrigan]

StK's answer that he didn't know what to expect from his question what everybody thought about my L-1 vote?

Obviously I meant what I said. I was looking to see how people felt about what you did.

SC's unvote without anything else

I don't find anything strange about it.

Mr's post which only answered a question, after which he went out again.

Again, nothing strange with it, especially since I understand the urge of football myself. On an unrelated note, GO PACK GO!!!

Pome's voting density argument

Personally, I think Pom's argument is not a good one. Scum may be trying to hop on wagons, but just because a person slaps his vote around doesn't mean that he's scum.

Another question for you: How was my vote against MrWhereItsAt opportunistic? He didn't have any votes on him at the time, and I've already explained the reason why I voted him (and how it since became pointless).

[mykonian]

Main Entry: op·por·tun·ism
Pronunciation: \-ˈtü-ˌni-zəm, -ˈtyü-\
Function: noun
Date: 1870

: the art, policy, or practice of taking advantage of opportunities or circumstances often with little regard for principles or consequences

Meh, now I see the definition, I am not too sure anymore.

What you did was taking advantage of a move by Mr that wasn't scummy, but was a good opportunity to vote. So the main goal could barely be to find scum in Mr, and was more likely to stir up discussion.

[SaintKerrigan]

Main Entry: op·por·tun·ism
Pronunciation: \-ˈtü-ˌni-zəm, -ˈtyü-\
Function: noun
Date: 1870

: the art, policy, or practice of taking advantage of opportunities or circumstances often with little regard for principles or consequences

Meh, now I see the definition, I am not too sure anymore.

What you did was taking advantage of a move by Mr that wasn't scummy, but was a good opportunity to vote. So the main goal could barely be to find scum in Mr, and was more likely to stir up discussion.

But if I was trying to stir up discussion, what exactly makes that scummy? How was Mr's statement a good opportunity to vote?

On the other hand, you're starting to look less like conniving scum and more like overaggressive town.

Unvote: Mykonian.

I'm not inclined at the moment to vote anyone else.

Pomegranate has some explaining to do regarding her vote spread argument. Just what made you think that the vote spread argument was a good reason to vote Mykonian, Pom?

[mykonian]

wait. I never called you scummy for taking that opportunity to vote Mr, right? I just said that it was not more then that, grasping the opportunity, and that my vote on you was a more extreme version of that. Mr's statement was a good opportunity to vote since he said something that was doubtful.

mod, can we have prods on Cat and Malpa?