Mini 892 - Mayor Mafia (GAME OVER)

[MonkeyMan576]

The problem with Socrates' theory of all town should want to be mayor is good except that if we all sat here with supports on ourselves noone would get elected.

My list of 5 criteria were totally made up on the spot by the way - if anyone can think or different ones give us all a shout, I've never played with this mechanic before.

Monkeyman is not coming with the pressure of an early wagon at all. How experienced are you, Monkey?

Support Hoopla

I'm fairly experienced. I've played in a lot of games anyway.

I'm not exactly sure what "proper action" would be at this point, considering there is four votes on me and no case.

[Socrates]

The problem with Socrates' theory of all town should want to be mayor is good except that if we all sat here with supports on ourselves noone would get elected.

My list of 5 criteria were totally made up on the spot by the way - if anyone can think or different ones give us all a shout, I've never played with this mechanic before.

Monkeyman is not coming with the pressure of an early wagon at all. How experienced are you, Monkey?

Support Hoopla

Well, players would obviously need to keep realistic expectations about their chances of being elected.

I will also reiterate that I think the most important thing to do is ensure that town gets elected, so I must ask: Do you have reason to think that Hoopla is town? Why her and not yourself when there are multiple people that want you as mayor?

~This post was brought to you by the Socrates For Mayor Assosiation. He's got fire!

[Socrates]

The problem with Socrates' theory of all town should want to be mayor is good except that if we all sat here with supports on ourselves noone would get elected.

My list of 5 criteria were totally made up on the spot by the way - if anyone can think or different ones give us all a shout, I've never played with this mechanic before.

Monkeyman is not coming with the pressure of an early wagon at all. How experienced are you, Monkey?

Support Hoopla

I'm fairly experienced. I've played in a lot of games anyway.

I'm not exactly sure what "proper action" would be at this point, considering there is four votes on me and no case.

Defend your position or accept that you have acted scummy. Your first post contains a scummy and unjustified generalization and blanket statement that flies in the face of what (I think) optimal pro-town behavior should be.

[MonkeyMan576]

The problem with Socrates' theory of all town should want to be mayor is good except that if we all sat here with supports on ourselves noone would get elected.

My list of 5 criteria were totally made up on the spot by the way - if anyone can think or different ones give us all a shout, I've never played with this mechanic before.

Monkeyman is not coming with the pressure of an early wagon at all. How experienced are you, Monkey?

Support Hoopla

I'm fairly experienced. I've played in a lot of games anyway.

I'm not exactly sure what "proper action" would be at this point, considering there is four votes on me and no case.

Defend your position or accept that you have acted scummy. Your first post contains a scummy and unjustified generalization and blanket statement that flies in the face of what (I think) optimal pro-town behavior should be.

It's not unjustified or scummy. If someone recommends themselves as mayor I think it increases the likelyhood that the power could be used for scrupulous means. And if election results were so obvious than we wouldn't have elections or debate about it in the first place.

[Col.Cathart]

I am going to say this once, and then I will probably say it a few more times after someone calls me scummy for it, but there is no pro-town reason to not try and win the Mayoral election. The members of the town only have one way to guarentee that the mayor will be used in a pro-town fashion, and that is by getting themselves elected.

Anyone deliberately not wanting the position is avoiding the spotlight and the scrutiny it brings or attacking someone for campaigning for themselves will get the stink eye from me.

Ok...

Gotta say, I haven't thought of it this way, and it's a good point, so I'm willing to revise my statement, and I'm not going to attack anyone for it.

unvote

But that's just the one side of the problem IMO. Double voter is a VERY juicy role for a scum, and I don't think, they would pass up the opportunity just like that. Someone who starts a major election campaign, and is quickly supported by a bunch of other people looks weird to me. Your play so far is obvtown, so I don't think it's the case here, but it's certainly a thing to watch in a nearest future.

[MichelSableheart]

Second support count of day 1:

charter (0)

kyle99 (1)

Hoopla

Moai Interceptor Cannons (0)

Debonair Danny DiPietro (0)

SerialClergyman (1)

charter

* Hoopla (3)

Col.Cathart, xRECKONERx, SerialClergyman

Socrates (2)

Socrates, Debonair Danny DiPietro

MonkeyMan576 (0)

xRECKONERx (1)

Moai Interceptor Cannons

nhammen (0)

Col.Cathart (0)

SaintKerrigan (0)

Not supporting anyone:

kyle99, MonkeyMan576, nhammen, SaintKerrigan

With 12 players alive, it takes 7 votes to elect someone as mayor.

an * marks who would become mayor if the day ended right now.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Second vote count of day 1:

charter (0)

kyle99 (1)

Hoopla

Moai Interceptor Cannons (0)

Debonair Danny DiPietro (0)

SerialClergyman (0)

Hoopla (0)

Socrates (0)

MonkeyMan576 (4)

charter, Socrates, Moai Interceptor Cannons, xRECKONERx

xRECKONERx (2)

MonkeyMan576

nhammen (0)

Col.Cathart (0)

SaintKerrigan (1)

Debonair Danny DiPietro

Not voting anyone:

kyle99, SerialClergyman, nhammen, SaintKerrigan, Col.Cathart

With 13 votes available, it takes 7 votes to lynch someone. However, noone can be lynched before a mayor is elected.

[charter]

All people who vote others without posting their reasons are scum.

See what I did there? I laid down an unfounded accusation with no justification that lets me accuse others of being scum for no good reason.

The same thing as what Monkey did.

I don't actually believe my statement up there, and I don't believe that those who want themselves to be mayor are scummy for pretty much the exact same reason Socrates said. If you're town, the best person (in your view) to be mayor is yourself, since you know that the extra power is going towards furthering the town's agenda. I thought about pushing myself for mayor, but I have no delusions of getting anyone else's votes to be elected.

Monkey's argument for why self nominating is scummy is not the justification I would expect town to use at all (if they believed that), and it furthers the notion that Monkeyman is, indeed, trying to push suspicion onto others rather than find scum. His reason for why election results being obvious is scummy is just ridiculous.

Cathart, who are you most suspicious of right now?

MORE PEOPLE SUPPORT SERIAL! HE DOES NOT RAPE BABIES (I hope).

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

I change my mind.

Unvote, Vote: SaintKerrigan

. Also, what's all this Hoopla support about?

[Col.Cathart]

Cathart, who are you most suspicious of right now?

Well, I did a re-read just seconds ago, and (oh irony!)

vote: Reckoner

I shouldn't unvote him in the first place. I did it, because my first vote was based on his self-election, but now as I read everyone, he's got the highest count on bullshit meter from all players here. So far none of his post were helpful to town in any way. True, the same can be said about all those who are not posting at all, but the difference is, HE IS posting, and yet nothing came from it so far.

Apart from him, Kyle's post when he said he'll probably go with majority rubbed me the wrong way, but it might be a newbie mistake so I'm not going to pursue him yet.

MM made similar mistake to me in taking only negative look at the self-election case. His last post is bullshit though. Neutral for now.

[MonkeyMan576]

All people who vote others without posting their reasons are scum.

See what I did there? I laid down an unfounded accusation with no justification that lets me accuse others of being scum for no good reason.

The same thing as what Monkey did.

I don't actually believe my statement up there, and I don't believe that those who want themselves to be mayor are scummy for pretty much the exact same reason Socrates said. If you're town, the best person (in your view) to be mayor is yourself, since you know that the extra power is going towards furthering the town's agenda. I thought about pushing myself for mayor, but I have no delusions of getting anyone else's votes to be elected.

Monkey's argument for why self nominating is scummy is not the justification I would expect town to use at all (if they believed that), and it furthers the notion that Monkeyman is, indeed, trying to push suspicion onto others rather than find scum. His reason for why election results being obvious is scummy is just ridiculous.

Cathart, who are you most suspicious of right now?

MORE PEOPLE SUPPORT SERIAL! HE DOES NOT RAPE BABIES (I hope).

What argument were you expecting? Because if you don't have one, it just looks like you are trying to get other people to vote on a bandwagon with no legs.

[charter]

Your argument was if someone nominates themselves for mayor, it increases the chance that they will use it for unscrupulous means, which I assume means increases the chance scum will abuse it.

If you were town and thought that self noming is scummy, I would have expected an argument that tries to explain why scum and not town would self nominate. Not just that people who self nominate are power hungry scum. I can't think of such an argument, but all you did was repeat your earlier generalized statement, just used more words to say it.

Also, if you're not advocating self noming, then that means, if you were town, you're increasing the chance scum will be elected, which is contradictory to your statement.

Serial, how come you're not voting Monkey? You'll lose out on a lot of town points when he flips scum.

[MonkeyMan576]

Your argument was if someone nominates themselves for mayor, it increases the chance that they will use it for unscrupulous means, which I assume means increases the chance scum will abuse it.

If you were town and thought that self noming is scummy, I would have expected an argument that tries to explain why scum and not town would self nominate. Not just that people who self nominate are power hungry scum. I can't think of such an argument, but all you did was repeat your earlier generalized statement, just used more words to say it.

Also, if you're not advocating self noming, then that means, if you were town, you're increasing the chance scum will be elected, which is contradictory to your statement.

Serial, how come you're not voting Monkey? You'll lose out on a lot of town points when he flips scum.

You're really over-reaching the strength of your argument, which is scummy.

I don't see why I would need to use more words to explain my position if fewer words is just as adequate. And there is no mathematical connection between self nominating and electing town. My hypothesis is that asking to be nominated has the potential to be self serving, I would rather nominate someone who has more altruistic motives. "I am a great player" "I could be town" "Therefore I should be mayor" doesn't really seem like good logic to me.

[kyle99]

I'll

support: Hoopla

because I'm not really sure who would be the best mayor, having this been my first non-newbie game. I'm still deciding about the vote though.

[charter]

Now you've changing the reason you find me scummy because no one agreed with your old one. Before I was declaring the winner to be obvious that made me scummy, and now I'm reaching that makes me scummy.

The thing is, you've never explained your position, you just keep repeating that people that self nom are scummy. You've never explained why self noming makes someone more likely to be scum than town.

[SerialClergyman]

Monkey - If you're fairly experienced, why are you so worried about an early wagon on nothing? Your reaction looked telling to me because I generally find the townie response to an early bandwagon is bemusement, especially if there's no reason to the wagon. Your reaction was genuine concern and asking about reasons for it. I'd possibly expect that from someone who is a little inexperienced, but if that's not you, then I'm suspicious.

Vote monkey

charter - I was waiting for an answer to my question.

@all - I've voted Hoopla because she's an excellent player and is solidly active. She's hard to read but not impossible and she's convincing.

I've been somewhat negative about calls for supporting myself because although I am definitely town I feel there would be better options. I disagree that any player who is defeinitely town is better than a goodp layer who is likely town. If the double vote is tunnelled on a bad case we're going to have real trouble lynching elsewhere, for example. But I gave my own assessment of my own playstyle and it's suitability to be mayor above.

The argument reminds me of getting lynched - if you were at L-1, you could argue that even if you were vanilla you should claim cop with a guilty on someone else in the town because any lynch is better than yoruself, a confirmed townie. But it doesn't play out that way in practicality, sometimes even though you are only sure about yourself, the team's success is bigger than the mistake they are about to make.

kyle - you've signed up for this game, now you're playing it. No more mention of newbieness, no more indecision. Just do your best and be honest if you're town and you'll do fine. If you keep playing the newbie card, I'll get suspicious.

[kyle99]

Ok, I'll try to be more decisive

Apart from him, Kyle's post when he said he'll probably go with majority rubbed me the wrong way, but it might be a newbie mistake so I'm not going to pursue him yet.[/qoute]
Sorry that rubbed you the wrong way. I didn't mean that I would try to go with a majority on lynch votes, just go with a majority on mayor votes, which I probably won't end up doing anyway.

[xRECKONERx]

I don't see why it's page four and I'm getting flak for not being helpful.

[charter]

Reckoner, do you think Monkey is scum? You going to jump ship if he gets another vote?

[charter]

MOI, what happened to change your mind to unvote Monkey and vote Kerrigan?

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

ITT:

charter tunnels too much

-----
The case on Monkey is being epicly overinflated IMO. Haha, 'town points' - that's a good one Charter. Serial, your reason especially is a bit pathetic for someone of your apparent calibre: bemusement = town, concern = scum? What?

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

MOI, what happened to change your mind to unvote Monkey and vote Kerrigan?

Kerrigan was always the better vote than Monkey in my eyes. It's just that Monkey had a bigger wagon at the time, but his reaction was inconclusive. Also, Charter, we're only on page four. Calm down a little.

[MonkeyMan576]

[quote="SerialClergyman"]Monkey - If you're fairly experienced, why are you so worried about an early wagon on nothing? Your reaction looked telling to me because I generally find the townie response to an early bandwagon is bemusement, especially if there's no reason to the wagon. Your reaction was genuine concern and asking about reasons for it. I'd possibly expect that from someone who is a little inexperienced, but if that's not you, then I'm suspicious.

Vote monkey

I don't think there's a problem with pointing out if a wagon is based on scummy logic. I wasn't worried after the first or the second vote. But I think after four or five votes anyone has a right to point out that a bandwagon has no basis behind it.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

Monkey, who are

you

suspicious of?

[MonkeyMan576]

Monkey, who are

you

suspicious of?

Reck and nhammen are my top suspects right now. Although since it's still early day one opinions are changing rapidly.

[charter]

MOI, why was Kerrigan a better vote than Monkey?

I don't plan on calming down. We have scum dancing on a bed of hot coals, no need to let the feet cool off.