Mini 892 - Mayor Mafia (GAME OVER)

[MonkeyMan576]

MOI, why was Kerrigan a better vote than Monkey?

I don't plan on calming down. We have scum dancing on a bed of hot coals, no need to let the feet cool off.

Charter was like this in Muppets Mafia too. When he thinks he's right about something he doesn't think clearly. I might also add that he was lying as town on his roleclaim in that game, so I would think twice about who you trust.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

MOI, why was Kerrigan a better vote than Monkey?

It was something to do with Kerrigan's his post 66, but I want to wait until he checks into the thread again before commenting (i.e. interrogating him) on that. For the meanwhile, let me digress and turn your attention to the first half of Cathart's post 58:

vote: Reckoner

I don't trust anyone who supports himself for the mayor.

What do you think of this?

[SerialClergyman]

Serial, your reason especially is a bit pathetic for someone of your apparent calibre: bemusement = town, concern = scum? What?

Err.. i'm a bit of a results over reasons guy.. hence all my talk about being unconvincing. To me, and not necessarily to everyone else I accept, the scummiest thing Money has done is gotten worried over a wagon that he thought had no basis. If you're town and have 4 votes and genuine in thinking there's no reason people are voting you, you also aren't worried about being lynched. Monkey gave me the distinct inpression he was, and was looking for someone to argue with and defend himself against. He just didn't handle the pressure like I'd expect him to.

charter = tunnel. I love the passion, I hate the closedmindedness, but he's a good enough player to drop it if there's reason to. It's not a tell either way, I think (I haven't seen charter scum that I know of).

[Socrates]

Town reads: Charter, Moi

current suspicion: SerialClergyman, Monkey.

SC's reasoning to jump on the monkeywagon was underwhelming to me.

I have yet to sees a post by Monkey that makes me think he is town.

I wonder what Hoopla will say when she see all this support she has. The way she has built up so much support without even being present is sending off alarm bells in my head.

I've been somewhat negative about calls for supporting myself because although I am definitely town I feel there would be better options. I disagree that any player who is defeinitely town is better than a goodp layer who is likely town. If the double vote is tunnelled on a bad case we're going to have real trouble lynching elsewhere, for example. But I gave my own assessment of my own playstyle and it's suitability to be mayor above.

The argument reminds me of getting lynched - if you were at L-1, you could argue that even if you were vanilla you should claim cop with a guilty on someone else in the town because any lynch is better than yoruself, a confirmed townie. But it doesn't play out that way in practicality, sometimes even though you are only sure about yourself, the team's success is bigger than the mistake they are about to make.

Do you even know how much power this role has in the hands of scum, SC? We lose out on an ENTIRE day! Not to mention the extra ability for scum to throw their weight around and direct exactly what lynches will happen where. I would DEFINITELY rather this role be wasted on a tunneling townie than give it to a possible scumbag.

[nhammen]

Why not discuss what we're doing with the mayor and what the best qualities are rather than go into a pretty unnecessary RVS?

I'm thinking good qualities would be:

a) Active
b) Easy to read
c) Good scumhunter
d) Good townhunter
e) Convincing.

To be honest, I have a) down pat. b) and e) I'm certainly not and c) and d) are variable and late-game centric at best, so I'd consider myself pretty mediocre as mayor. I was only half kidding in what I wrote to charter - I doubt one extra vote will be what I need to lynch scum.

Anyone else thinking of mayoral qualities/candidates?

I'm not too active (the once a day requirement almost made me not sign up). I don't know about easy to read, as I have never been scum yet. However, when I was Cop in Newbie 850, I was roleblocked night 1. I am a good scumhunter. So far I have a 66% catch ratio... starting with Day Night. I don't know about townhunting. I haven't kept track. Convincing? Not enough. Not early enough. See Newbie 850 for an example.

Support nhammen

for now. I'll change it if an agreeable support wagon forms. Currently, I have three people who I feel agreeable about.

Monkey's argument for why self nominating is scummy is not the justification I would expect town to use at all (if they believed that), and it furthers the notion that Monkeyman is, indeed, trying to push suspicion onto others rather than find scum. His reason for why election results being obvious is scummy is just ridiculous.

Cathart, who are you most suspicious of right now?

MORE PEOPLE SUPPORT SERIAL! HE DOES NOT RAPE BABIES (I hope).

I could get behind this.

Reck and nhammen are my top suspects right now.

Why?

MOI, why was Kerrigan a better vote than Monkey?

I don't plan on calming down. We have scum dancing on a bed of hot coals, no need to let the feet cool off.

How do you know it's scum? You could have townies dancing on hot coals... a sight which scum love to see.


BTW, I called it. charter is tunneling and Monkey is playing scummy.

[Socrates]

EBWOP: I also want to hear a response from Saint to the questions I levied at him and my stink eye on Cathart still stands.

[nhammen]

Do you even know how much power this role has in the hands of scum, SC? We lose out on an ENTIRE day! Not to mention the extra ability for scum to throw their weight around and direct exactly what lynches will happen where. I would DEFINITELY rather this role be wasted on a tunneling townie than give it to a possible scumbag.

The problem is scum are likely to say exactly this if they see a townie tunneling on another townie. Then it wastes a day AND directs attention towards the tunneling player. Personally, Serial is looking ALOT more townie than you are.

[Socrates]

BTW: I hate the way people are dismissing the suspicion on Monkey as "Charter tunneling". My gods people its page 5! Its like, the first wagon of the entire game! Sure, the case isn't full proof but there is nothing wrong with pushing such a stance aggressively in my view.

[Hoopla]

Hi everyone, I've just moved apartments and am having trouble with my internet provider - they expect it to be set up and ready either on Friday or Monday, depending on when a technician can get out here.

I'm at the library now, and I'll try and make a post or two during my downtime, but consider me V/LA for now.

--

My reason for voting/supporting Kyle was that I think it's a good idea to lynch the mayor on Day 1 and treat it as a normal day. My reasoning is it's sometimes quite difficult to discern town players on Day 1. We have no mod-confirmed alignments to play with, so it seems frivolous to give someone extra power based on reputation or their early play.

Of the last 64 mini normals, only 13 times has scum been lynched Day 1. This is slightly worse than random, probably due to scum's ability to work together to avoid it. If a town lynch is likely, I think it will be very beneficial to have confirmed town choosing the mayor for Day 2. I can easily see this mechanic being exploited by scum, and think arbitrary power is unnecessary until we have viable town reads.

[MonkeyMan576]

Reck and nhammen are my top suspects right now.

Why?

Because reck's rubbing noses with you early in the game looked like he was trying to get you to agree to some sort of alignment with him.

[Socrates]

The problem is scum are likely to say exactly this if they see a townie tunneling on another townie. Then it wastes a day AND directs attention towards the tunneling player. Personally, Serial is looking ALOT more townie than you are.

How does it waste an entire day in the hands of a bad townie? I was talking about how they are a whole vote closer to holding majority and the game will end one day sooner. This isn't kingmaker, and if the mayor obviously isn't on the right track we can still lynch the old fashioned way.

Isn't it common knowledge how much more powerful a scum doublevoter is than a town doublevoter?

Mayor in the hands of scum: very bad

Mayor in the hands of negligent town: not good, but doesn't nearly put the town in as bad a posiotn.

[Hoopla]

Some more thoughts while I'm still here:

The monkeyman wagon is good - he's at L-2 I believe. But I'm fine with putting him at L-1 considering we can't lynch until we've chosen a mayor. I don't think his blanket suspicion was bad, but the reaction to his own wagon was definitely off.

Re my support for mayor: I'd still prefer mayoring whoever we make our D1 lynch candidate, and don't intend to support mayoring anyone else until I hear sound reasoning behind why this would be a good idea on D1.

Vote: Monkeyman

[charter]

MOI, why was Kerrigan a better vote than Monkey?

It was something to do with Kerrigan's his post 66, but I want to wait until he checks into the thread again before commenting (i.e. interrogating him) on that.

I want to know your reason as soon as possible.

For the meanwhile, let me digress and turn your attention to the first half of Cathart's post 58:

vote: Reckoner

I don't trust anyone who supports himself for the mayor.

What do you think of this?

He's already retracted that.

Anyhow, who the mayor is now isn't really that important. Scum having an additional public vote on day one isn't a big deal. It will be important for them not to have it in the coming days, as it essentially makes LYLO one day sooner if the mayor is scum. All this said, Hoopla's idea of lynching the mayor is something to consider.

[SaintKerrigan]

Why don't you like that I nominated myself, and what problems do you have with me saying it is pro-town for a member of the town to try and become mayor?

It's more related to my feeling that people that nominate themselves shouldn't get the role. But since a lot of people are doing it, I might have to reconsider that stance. I also don't recall myself stating that I had any problems with a member of the town trying to become the mayor. I'm not sure how you inferred that.

@ MOI: I'd kinda like to hear why one post makes me vote-worthy, too.

@ Hoopla: All jokes aside, I don't really get what you're saying about lynching the mayor on Day 1.

[MonkeyMan576]

Okay, so what I get is that charter thought I was wrong to think that self-noming was bad, and then charter thought I was wrong to react to being at L-3 and that I didn't give him the exact argument he wanted(not that my argument itself was bad).

[charter]

Okay, so what I get is that charter

thought I was wrong to think that self-noming was bad, and then charter thought I was wrong to react to being at L-3 and that I didn't give him the exact argument he wanted(not that my argument itself was bad).

actually said was, Monkey was trying to shove suspicion under people without justifying it and then your justification didn't actually justify your claim. Charter hasn't said anything about how you reacted to votes on you.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

Hoopla, you've just put Monkey on L-2 if I count correctly. And the way I understand it, if Monkey gets to L-0 then

you

(the person with most support for mayor) become the mayor and he dies anyway.

@Mod: Is that how it works?

What do you think was off about Monkey's reaction to his own wagon?

Err.. i'm a bit of a results over reasons guy.. hence all my talk about being unconvincing. To me, and not necessarily to everyone else I accept, the scummiest thing Money has done is gotten worried over a wagon that he thought had no basis. If you're town and have 4 votes and genuine in thinking there's no reason people are voting you, you also aren't worried about being lynched. Monkey gave me the distinct inpression he was, and was looking for someone to argue with and defend himself against. He just didn't handle the pressure like I'd expect him to.

Serial, right after the fourth vote on Monkey (i.e. he actually waited until there were four votes) he simply pointed out that there were four votes on him without a good reason - I don't know how you got the distinct impression that he was worried from that. If anything I find the

lack

of reaction more eyebrow-raising than what you're trying to push.

@Charter, I'll get back to you in a minute.

@ MOI: I'd kinda like to hear why one post makes me vote-worthy, too.

Before we get to the main dish, here's a question for you. Do you want to be mayor or not? I'll only accept 'yes' or 'no' as the answer to this question.

[MonkeyMan576]

Okay, so what I get is that charter

thought I was wrong to think that self-noming was bad, and then charter thought I was wrong to react to being at L-3 and that I didn't give him the exact argument he wanted(not that my argument itself was bad).

actually said was, Monkey was trying to shove suspicion under people without justifying it and then your justification didn't actually justify your claim. Charter hasn't said anything about how you reacted to votes on you.

Speaking of trying to shove suspicion on to people, you're trying too hard to make me look suspicious without considering the possibility that I'm town(which I am).

I'm not trying to shove suspicion onto anyone. I'm suggesting that weather or not people want themselves to be mayor or someone else may say something about their motives. To me, it would be something obvious to look at, not something that makes someone scummy for suggesting.

[charter]

Serial and Hoopla, what do you think of MOI?

[SaintKerrigan]

Before we get to the main dish, here's a question for you. Do you want to be mayor or not? I'll only accept 'yes' or 'no' as the answer to this question.

I believe I have already stated my opinion on that matter. But just so that it's clear, the answer is "no."

[SaintKerrigan]

Er, the quote tag should read "MIC" instead of "MOI."

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

Oh? Not the reply I was expecting. I basically read your post 66 as 'I kinda want to be mayor, but if I nominate myself people might see me as scummy so I'll just imply it'. The whole post just struck me as very dishonest and subtly contradictory of itself. If you don't want to be mayor, why did you fill out Serial's mayoral qualities thing?

[MonkeyMan576]

Very contradictory.

Vote: SaintKerrigan
Support: Moai Interceptor Cannons

[Hoopla]

23. At the beginning of the game, the players decide who gets this role. This decission works as a normal lynching decission, except that votes should read

Support: Player Name

and

Unsupport: Player Name

.

Day 1 can't end through a lynch before a mayor has been chosen

. If, at the end of the day, no player has received the support of the majority of players, the player with the most support will become mayor. If there is a tie, the first player to have reached the highest amount of support will become mayor. If noone has received any support, a random player will become mayor.

Maoi: This is how I interpretted the rule for lynching/mayoring. We can't lynch until a mayor has been chosen. Forced mayordom only comes if we reach the deadline without a majority on mayor supports.

SaintKerrigan: The purpose of lynching the mayor is so we have a confirmed alignment choosing the mayor for Day 2, as the mayor chooses his successor upon death. This is better than making an unsure choice on Day 1. We have little information to work with, and I can see this mechanic being more useful on

Day 1

to scum than town. Therefore we should treat this day normally, and not support a mayor until we decide who to lynch, so we can mayor them.

[charter]

Serial and Hoopla, what do you think of MOI?

Don't know why I keep thinking MOI, I mean MIC.

Kind of wish Hoopla didn't explain, since catching a scum quickhammering, but then not actually hammering, would have been pretty awesome.

MIC, still waiting on the reasons for what changed your mind from Monkey to Kerrigan.

Hoopla, what do you say about waiting to mayor until we've decided on a lynch, and then deciding whether or not to mayor the lynchee or someone else. If possible, I'd prefer mayoring someone that isn't about to die.