888: X-COM TFTD Mafia: Over!

[Claude Lefevre]

if Spencer was scum, he wouldn't even need to refer to the real content of a role PM... but Jaime is right right, Spencer is not clear, but from my PoV he is the 2nd closest to clear. Nobody is actually clear, according to Jaime's definition.

But these are platitudes.

@Spencer: your ideal course of action is: today me, Jaime tomorrow. Which means you trust Leon. Would you tell me more about this?

[Edward Smilie]

Even though Spencer is highly likely not scum you can't rule him out comepletely just yet.

You can never clear anyone 100%. However, given that we actually have to lynch someone, lynching someone we don't

think

is scum is a bad idea.

Yet another slip by Jaime and we get nothing? /facepalm

Nice of you to drop in from lurking to say that. Any reason in hell we should see that as a 'slip?'

And lurking=/=scummy, there's nothing really to reply to except tunneling and speculation. No one has even as much as mentioned you really, besides Edward.

I'm almost tempted to policy-lynch anyone who ever says this. It's the single scummiest thing a player can do.

God, Claude's last post is a huuuuuuuuuuuge stretch.

[Leon Dreyfus]

I'm almost tempted to policy-lynch anyone who ever says this. It's the single scummiest thing a player can do.

Uh, no it's not. In your opinion it is. When I have nothing to respond to really and other discussion is going on, I'm not going to interrupt it at the time being.

Let's see, he claims vanilla, and doesn't even know the main half of his role PM, even after I had done that and had to look back AND Malth told everyone it was in the OP. Yeah, he's a golden egg right there.

[Claude Lefevre]

ESL, so too much slang for me in the last two posts. What is a golden egg and what does a stretch mean?

[Jaime Marcelle]

Uh, no it's not. In your opinion it is. When I have nothing to respond to really and other discussion is going on, I'm not going to interrupt it at the time being.

I still don't see why you think that it's not scummy. could you please tell us how.

Now let's reveiw my definition of what something scummy is:

Something that is scummy is usually one of two things (except for a few excepions but those are just too complicated so lets not go there).

1. Something that helps the scum more than town
And/or
2. Something that hurts the town more than scum

Now then, lurking can fall under both of these. For 1, it allows scum to just stay in the background so they won't stand out as much and won't look as suspicious. It can also fall under number two because it hurts the town because it gives them less information by not having a person participate as much. Now, if you can disprove me, I would be happy to give you the benifet of the doubt and say that lurking is not scummy.

ESL, so too much slang for me in the last two posts. What is a golden egg and what does a stretch mean?

A stretch is something that is possible or reasonable but since you'd have to go to great lengths to make it that way thus making it unbeleivable.

As for golden egg, I can't think of any good way to explain it but if I can think of a good way to explain it i'll post it.

[Edward Smilie]

A stretch- you are taking a small bit of information, and attributing to it more value than is merited. IE, that someone thinks their top two suspects are you and Jaime doesn't mean that they trust Leon (ie, think he is definitely town)- they just have to have Leon as even marginally less likely to be scum than Leon.

@ Leon: Meh, you're probably right that we're not going to convince each other right now, though it still amazes me that anyone thinks that way when the evidence is so overwhelming. Towns that are unwilling to lynch lurkers lose.

But still-

Our role PMs were sent to our mains, not these accounts. If he wasn't aware of the role pm on the first page, in the same way you claimed not to be, I can see how he could have had an idea in his mind of what his pm said (your role is able seaman) thought you were claiming something different to that (your role is average aquanaut) and posted without thinking 'maybe i should check this out with my own pm first.' We've established that Jaime doesn't necessarily seem to always think thinks through with brilliant logic before he says them.

The alternative is that Jaime is scum. If he were scum, he'd only know the contents of the town pm from the first page. However, if that were the case, and he were referring to the first page as he looked at your claim, he'd see the merely average aquanaut bit, wouldn't he? At the worst, a scum who has seen the townie PM is

no more

likely to forget its contents than a townie who has.

Or, without knowing what your role pm is, and knowing you're town, he's taken a wild guess that you might have misquoted something. That's even less plausible- I have never, ever seen a situation where that has happened- a scum who doesn't know what the townie role pm is accuses someone of misquoting it. It just wouldn't make any sense for a scum to do that.

For shits and giggles, if jaime isn't scum, who is?

[Spencer Remmington]

@Spencer: your ideal course of action is: today me, Jaime tomorrow. Which means you trust Leon. Would you tell me more about this?

Reading comprehension is tech. That's about all I need to tell you.

[quote="Spencer"
Honestly, a Claude lynch probably does make the most sense. If he's not scum it's far more likely Jaime is (assuming the game goes on) [/quote]

However, rereading this I can see where you might be led astray. Let me be more explicit

If Claude flips scum, and the game continues, then Leon is most likely scum
If Claude flips town, and the game continues, then Jaime is most likely scum

If Leon is scum, and the game continues, then Claude is most likely scum
If Leon is town, and the game continues, then Jaime is most likely scum

If Jaime is scum, and the game continues, then dear God Jaime is a moron, and Claude is most likely scum
If Jaime is town, and the game continues, then I'm at a loss, but I'd lean Leon as scum.

So, notice a trend here.

When either Jaime OR Leon is scum, Claude is scum with them, or they were the last remaining scum

, further,

if Claude flips town, we are still liable to have a chance since Jaime only makes sense as lone scum

Claude is both a good bet for scum and a good bet for getting the last bit of information we need to find the remaining scum, if any.

Does this make sense?

[Edward Smilie]

Hmmm. It makes sense. It also kinda worries me, since I think Leon's more likely scum in either situation than Jaime- I don't see how a few 'slips' can possibly make up for the difference between being the pivotal vote that gives the Emile wagon momentum, and being the person who pushed the counterwagon to the scum in the first place.

My one concern with Jaime, really, is that the Igor vote by Emile was an attempt to quicklynch to win, and then Andrew unvoting made it impossible, so Jaime decided to bus. However, EVEN IN that scenario, it would mean there was another partner.

Basically, in terms of today, I put scumgroups involving Claude > Scumgroups involving Spencer or Leon (still not sure what to make of the whole Leon thing- townies shouldn't need flavor updates) > scumgroups involving Jaime.

Tbh, although i still want an answer from Leon on the 'if Jaime's not scum' example, I feel we've debated long enough to make me happy with a

vote: Claude Lefevre

. Like i said, nothing he's done all game stands out as being protown, he was one of the leaders of the counterwagon, and he's a plausible partner for all other players.

[Leon Dreyfus]

For shits and giggles, if jaime isn't scum, who is?

Claude would be the next choice.

[Jaime Marcelle]

However, rereading this I can see where you might be led astray. Let me be more explicit

If Claude flips scum, and the game continues, then Leon is most likely scum
If Claude flips town, and the game continues, then Jaime is most likely scum

If Leon is scum, and the game continues, then Claude is most likely scum
If Leon is town, and the game continues, then Jaime is most likely scum

If Jaime is scum, and the game continues, then dear God Jaime is a moron, and Claude is most likely scum
If Jaime is town, and the game continues, then I'm at a loss, but I'd lean Leon as scum.

So, notice a trend here. When either Jaime OR Leon is scum, Claude is scum with them, or they were the last remaining scum, further, if Claude flips town, we are still liable to have a chance since Jaime only makes sense as lone scum

Claude is both a good bet for scum and a good bet for getting the last bit of information we need to find the remaining scum, if any.

Does this make sense?

This makes sense and I would have to agree with it. However, I would prefer to wait until later in the day until I vote and I advise everyone else to do the same (One more vote would put Claude at L-1 and I don't think that's safe this early).

[Edward Smilie]

Man, I see what they mean about you saying pointless things to 'sound town' though.

Ewwww, we shouldn't lynch right now! Let's leave it to later! Long days benefit the town! Weeeeeeeeeeee!

Do you have any pressing issues you feel need to be resolved before you vote? Are you pursuing an angle that you think requires more discussion? If so, why not aggressively push these things?

Or are you waiting around, in the hope of the mythical scum 'slip up?'

Because there sure as hell isn't any reason to hang around just for the sake of hanging around.

[Jaime Marcelle]

Do you have any pressing issues you feel need to be resolved before you vote? Are you pursuing an angle that you think requires more discussion? If so, why not aggressively push these things?

It may not be that pressing however, I still think it should be looked at more. I want to hear more about why Leon feels so strongly about why lurking isn't scummy. While I somewhat agree with you and Leon that he likely won't change and no one will likely change their veiws on the matter I still think it deserves some consideration. Another thing that I've just recently noticed was Leon's latest post. While it seems harmless enough, it's how harmless it is that makes me look at it. He comepletely ignored the question I asked him beforehand.

So Leon: Again I ask this the third time. Why do you think lurking isn't scummy?
Also, why ignore the question when I asked it the other two times?

I do see what you mean Edward and I will try to be more agressive.

[Claude Lefevre]

@Spencer: I disagree and I think that by my turning town you will only get the doubt on Jaime and Leon and one dayvote when you will actually need two.

Also, I disagree because whatever my readings of the game may be, I cannot trust anyone. If Edward was the last scum playing a brilliant game, we would have already lost, since after Andrew's death (hey hey, look, he told me to consider voting me if he died) he's become like the closest to clear and therefore unofficial town leader.

Still, I am ready to bet that there is but one scum left. If you think that Spencer's plan makes sense then go ahead, hammer me and try to do a good job tomorrow.

@Jaime: do you realise how many times in this game you told "I agree with", "You are right, my bad" and so on?

[Jaime Marcelle]

[quote"Claude"]@Jaime: do you realise how many times in this game you told "I agree with", "You are right, my bad" and so on?[/quote]

Pretty much and I wish there was a way for me to explain it but I can't really. I guess it's just my playstyle. Meh.

If Edward was the last scum playing a brilliant game, we would have already lost, since after Andrew's death (hey hey, look, he told me to consider voting me if he died) he's become like the closest to clear and therefore unofficial town leader.

Wasn't Spencer the closest to being clear? You even state earlier that he's the second closest to being clear from your point of veiw (And unless I am mistaken the first was you, correct?)

[Claude Lefevre]

you are right (<-- LoL), this mistake does not change the situation that much, as I am convinced that it's either you or Leon.

[Leon Dreyfus]

"Hey guys~ I'm scum! Sorry that was just my playstyle speaking! Pfft. Silly me!"

[Jaime Marcelle]

"Hey guys~ I'm scum! Sorry that was just my playstyle speaking! Pfft. Silly me!"

I think you're blowing situation out of proportion a bit. Being an agreeable person and a person who admits his mistakes does not mean I am admiting scum. I also didn't expect anyone to beleive me so w/e.

Also Leon, I enjoy how you are STILL ignoring the question I asked you. So now, for the FOURTH TIME: Why do you beleive that lurking is not scummy? Also, why are you avoiding the question so much?

[Leon Dreyfus]

Because that question is opinion based.

[Jaime Marcelle]

Because that question is opinion based.

Yes, I understand that. However, I am getting vibes (especially now that you've been avoiding the question for so long) that you do not even know the answer to the question. And even then, it could provide us with useful information. Also, is an opinion based question nessesarily bad? How is it any worse then another opinion based question. In fact, most of the game is opinions and opinion based questions! Would you rather people ask "Are you scum?" or "Who do you think is scum?" If no one answered any opinion based questions, we wouldn't get that far, would we?

[Claude Lefevre]

This is getting ridiculous. I already have a vote on me, and it is a wrong vote, but whatever. My hypothetical vote on Leon has no reason to remain hypothetical any longer. You can hammer me anytime. If another townie (assuming as I do that Ed is town) votes me, scum may easily hammer, so screw it.

Vote: Leon

(besides, the reason why scum is prolly not yet voting me is because they don't want to draw attention, and this analysis is particularly fit for Leon, the biggest suspect after me)

(besides 2: if I were scum, I would have killed Edward, not Andrew: me and Edward never got along very well during the game, and he was bothered by my allegedly scummy questions as much as Andrew)

Unless you have any further questions, I have said all I had to say and I suggest to consider this situation as a crossed vote. Leon votes me, and Spencer and Jaime will be free to decide how and whom they will hammer.

[Edward Smilie]

The whole 'Yeah, it's ridiculous how i'm being voted, so i'll vote the player most similar to myself' thing doesn't really cut any ice with me.

(besides 2: if I were scum, I would have killed Edward, not Andrew: me and Edward never got along very well during the game, and he was bothered by my allegedly scummy questions as much as Andrew)

Massive pile of WIFOM and you know it.

Unless you have any further questions, I have said all I had to say and I suggest to consider this situation as a crossed vote. Leon votes me, and Spencer and Jaime will be free to decide how and whom they will hammer.

Why would you assume that Leon, who says Jaime is PE No1, would countervote you instead of voting Jaime? Why would he be happy leaving it down to Jaime and Spencer to decide?

To be honest, I'm getting some townie frustration off Claude, but I ain't shifting, because:

I can't see how Jaime can be scum unless he's legitimately the stupidest player ever.

I pretty much can't believe that both of those who created the counterwagon to the dead scum are town. And Leon comes off more sincere, and willing to put himself in a position to be criticized, than Claude does.

Also, the day we lynched Emile, Claude said this:

If Emile flips scum, Jaime is my vote tomorrow If Emile flips scum, Jaime is my vote tomorrow .

I'd kinda like to know why the idea of voting Jaime fell off Claude's radar so quickly, if I'm honest.

Spencer i guess is the wildcard. Could you clarify at all why you needed an updated flavor pm? You are still vanilla, right?

[malthusis]

The First Vote Count of Day 5:

Claude:1 (Edward Smilie)

Leon:1 (Claude Lefevre)

Not Voting:3 (Spencer Remmington, Leon Dreyfus, Jaime Marcelle)

Notes:

1. Deadline is in 2 days!

[Jaime Marcelle]

It seems everyones having trouble with multiple posting XD.

This is getting ridiculous. I already have a vote on me, and it is a wrong vote, but whatever. My hypothetical vote on Leon has no reason to remain hypothetical any longer. You can hammer me anytime. If another townie (assuming as I do that Ed is town) votes me, scum may easily hammer, so screw it.

You should know by now that all you're doing by saying this is creating noise... This will not stop you from being lynched.

(besides 2: if I were scum, I would have killed Edward, not Andrew: me and Edward never got along very well during the game, and he was bothered by my allegedly scummy questions as much as Andrew)

WIFOM

Unless you have any further questions, I have said all I had to say and I suggest to consider this situation as a crossed vote. Leon votes me, and Spencer and Jaime will be free to decide how and whom they will hammer.

Fine with me as long as Leon decides to go with it.

Also, as the deadline is on Friday, I will

Vote: Claude

due to the fact that

a. Claude is in my opinion just behind Leon in terms of scummyness and
b. Spencers latest post

However, please, PLEASE no one hammer until tomorrow (at the very earliest) because I still want to hear from Leon about the question I asked him about a while ago and possibly more depending on the answer i get from him.

[Claude Lefevre]

Edward: I prefere to vote Leon today and hypothetically Jaime tomorrow because Leon's post stating that he would have been v/la during night seems etremely scummy to me. I already posted on this.

1) Whats the point in crying wifom wifom when I am at L-2 (L-1 now)? Of course I know, so what? I had to say it and you know I did. Someone must be proud of the last night kill right now.

2) Jaime, thx for pointing out what Edward already said about wifom. Once again you add no content and you just hide joining the choir.

3) Jaime, what is the point in putting me at L-1 in a situation that some still think to be a lylo and then asking not to hammer?

Meh, such a fail... not only because I don't like to die, but also because Spencer's plan has a weakness: when I flip town you will lynch Jaime. And at the moment I find Leon scummier, therefore I don't like what's happening.

[malthusis]

Finally found a link to a download of X-COM!:http://www.hotud.org/component/content/ ... rs-Edition

You'll need DOS-BOX to run this. You can get it at: www.dosbox.com