ChiboSempai wrote:Though one thing of note seems that you are being fairly defensive against the claims of you Jester hunting. Whether or not you want to - or even if you were in the first place, it seemed to have struck a soft spot on you when people are trying to use it as a scumtell for you, though tbh, so many people will make a scumtell out of anything on D1 since there's nothing else to go off of yet.
Sure, and I can see this. I probably was a little too defensive just because I felt (and still feel) like a case is being built out of nothing at all; especially now that others have engaged in the conversation (to a greater degree than I) and yet I'm still the scummy one. It's contradictory. And the fact that a couple of pages has now been spent discussing the jester doesn't matter at all to me. We don't have a deadline right now, so I feel pretty comfortable with the direction of the discussion since we are still gaining information from other players (and myself for that matter).
Regardless, the jester conversation was going to come out whether it was me or not, since it was also noticed by someone else.
ChiboSempai wrote:Though one thing of note seems that you are being fairly defensive against the claims of you Jester hunting. Whether or not you want to - or even if you were in the first place, it seemed to have struck a soft spot on you when people are trying to use it as a scumtell for you, though tbh, so many people will make a scumtell out of anything on D1 since there's nothing else to go off of yet.
Sure, and I can see this. I probably was a little too defensive just because I felt (and still feel) like a case is being built out of nothing at all; especially now that others have engaged in the conversation (to a greater degree than I) and yet I'm still the scummy one. It's contradictory. And the fact that a couple of pages has now been spent discussing the jester doesn't matter at all to me. We don't have a deadline right now, so I feel pretty comfortable with the direction of the discussion since we are still gaining information from other players (and myself for that matter).
Regardless, the jester conversation was going to come out whether it was me or not.
ChiboSempai wrote:ConfidAnon - Well yea, they are more than likely to get lynched as all they have to do is purposefully act scummy and make the town want to lynch him, but you should definitely know that lynching isn't the only way to kill someone lol. There's tones of other ways someone can die, from both day and night killers (not to mention the common mafia night kill).
ChiboSempai wrote:Jesters are anti-town. Straight up, as they are another faction that can take the win away from the Town and mess up their judgment. By lynching a Jester you're
not
lynching scum which is the whole point of the game. However, the Jester is also anti-mafia as well. Same as town, it's another faction that can take a true win away, not to mention with the bullcrap a Jester can cause, with how 5cvm is claiming these scumbuddies, what if one of those 2 were actually scum? I'm sure the scum wouldn't like someone just making brash claims that could be putting unnecessary attention on the scum members.
This is a good point. I hadn't even thought of getting in the way of the mafia's win condition.
ConfidAnon wrote:xvart, 73 wrote:I understand that. I don't think I can be any more clear: I wasn't looking for a jester; I was asking a simple question about game setup before I considered putting another vote on him.
This point is devolving into "I'm right!" "No, I'm right!"
My stance is that by asking about the possibility of a jester, you were looking for a jester, but I'm done arguing it.
That's fine; although you continued to argue it in that same post? Do you just have to have the last word or the final punch to continue to paint me in this scummy light?
ConfidAnon wrote:If there is a jester, they are more than likely getting lynched, just saying.
Now you are hypothesizing about a jester, which you've already said is scummy; not only that, but you are resigned to second place being a satisfactory win.
ConfidAnon wrote:xvart, 73, cont. wrote:Do you really think that the mafia and the (mostly likely) non-existent jester have already planned out this grand scheme you suggest?
No, but if a jester existed, they would seek to do so.
I thought even simply hypothesizing about a jester was scummy?
ConfidAnon wrote:xvart, 73, cont. wrote:ConfidAnon - who do you think is more anti-town at this point? Me or 5cvm?
5cvm is more anti-town, while you are scummier. There's a difference there . . . your question sounds like you were using it to make yourself look better.
Good point regarding scummy vs. anti-town behavior. Regardless, I wasn't trying to make myself look better. I was trying to see your priorities, or rather how important (or lack of importance) 5cvm's behavior was in your book.
ConfidAnon wrote:I agree, but I'm not hunting for a jester . . . I'm calling you scummy for hunting for the jester. I won't argue that point any more, but it's not going away. And my allegations are founded, whether you acknowlege it or not.
Your definition of "hunting for a jester" is pretty perplexing to me. Why are you dead set on building this case against me for
asking about game setup
"hunting for a jester" when others are even more engaged in the jester discussion than I have ever been:
ChiboSempai wrote:Before anyone reads this post, since some people seem to believe for some reason that it's NOT good to look out for a Jester, this mindset is horrible imo. This is a forum based game with a ton of days set aside for each in-game day, potentially weeks. There is plenty of time to discover Jesters, Mafia, Independants, fell Town members, and all of that at the same time. We should be working to discover the game as a whole, by forgetting about the possibility of the Jester we are completely turning our back on a possible big part of the game. Imo as a mafia player you should play for a complete win. Sure as both town and mafia you can share a win with the Jester, but what's the point. We should work to achieve the best win possible.
ChiboSempai wrote:Why it's good to hunt for Jesters (Referring to some people's claims of it being scummy like ConfidAnon):
-Jesters are part of the game, we shouldn't refuse to turn our backs on any part of the game. Knowledge is power.
-A Jester is independent that can win the game. If we discover who they are, we can stop them from winning.
-If we can discover who the Jester is, that's someone we can take off of our potential lynch pool. Making the lynch pool smaller and smaller makes it easier to target scum. For instance, we're at 12 members right now. With today's lynch at the moment we have a 1/12 chance (or 8.3%) in lynching a scum member with a lynch pool of 12. If we work enough to deduce who we think can be a Jester, then we're taking a person out of our lynch pool (since we're labeling someone as a person we don't want to lynch), we would have a 1/11 chance (or 9%) in lynching scum. Every extra little bit helps.
-Jesters do not help the town. They get in the way of the game essentially and by them making the town want to lynch them, it's only going to stop the town from lynching scum. Yes, our main focus in the game is too take out the scum, though a Jester trying to get us to lynch him is going to lead us off track from our main goal. Finding out who the Jester is can help our judgment and keep our eyes on the main goal.
Aranfan wrote:Unvote: 5cvm
I am convinced that 5cvm can only be a Jester. It's the only thing that makes any sort of sense.
So let me ask you this, ConfidAnon: Who is scummier based on these jester hunts? Me, Aranfan, or ChiboSempai? Who on that list has been more pro-jester hypothesizing or jester hunting?
ConfidAnon wrote:BTW, here's an interesting thing everyone should read:
http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Jester
This is the key line:
mafiawiki wrote:If a Jester is lynched before any other faction has won, the game will usually continue to determine second place.
If there is a jester, they are more than likely getting lynched, just saying.
Also, how should the town feel about your resignation to second place being satisfactory? I guess we disagree on this since I play for the town first place win.
ChiboSempai wrote:One thing that stood out to me is when 5cvm first said that TheButtonMen and xvart were scum, then Button goes and votes xvart. Just going ahead and agreeing with 5cvm almost makes me think that Button is trying to clear himself in everyone elses eyes by voting someone who has been called out as scum. This is the only way I could see bussing be valid this early in the game if by some stroke of luck 5cvm actually did just conveniently out 2 scum members. That's a chance I'm not willing to take this early though.
Interesting observation. I know it is not possible for both TheButtonMen and myself to be scum; so I could only add that his vote on me was the attempt to start a bandwagon on me instead of him.
xvart.
it is very easy to play in the town's best interest.
