Mini 885 - Boom, Game Gutshot/Abandoned by Mod!

[Humble Poirot]

Hi everyone. I tried something different for this game. Instead of just catching up post after post I decided to read the ISOs first even if I didn't fully understand what was going on. The purpose? To read the players styles and reactions without getting influenced by the topics. So as to not easyly take a side. Please, do not be offended by any of my opinions as they're meant to show what my current feeling about your playstyle is. I can always be wrong and we can always agree to disagree.

Let's see if it works.

5cvm.

Vote hopping in RVS. Mentions random.org. Too much joking around. Air of being above it all. Ok, this repeated claims of scum should be rewarded with a lynch regardless of the real allignment of the player. Too anti-town to be helpful in the future. Jumps on bandwaggons. Laughing.

sidenote

: Claiming scumbuddies is IMHO, a modkillable offense. Because, in the event of being scum, it would spoil the game and faking to break a rule should have the same punishment as breaking it. That said, the mod has no rules against it so it's fine. But the WIFOM is horrible.

questions:

1) How serious do you consider a mafia game to be?
2) Do you think that your current tactics will help you win the game (Assuming you're town, don't give me the "I'm scum version", please)

Aranfan.

Seems to be eager to play and go for evident scumslips. His motives to avoid a jester lynch seem sincere and I can't really see it as a farfetched scumtactic to save an innocent 5cvm for later. Lynch the lurker to save mod trouble? That I don't like. But you gave your reasons and unvoted when I replaced in.

sidenote

. If there is, indeed, a jester, I will be greatly dissapointed.

questions:

A_Squirrel:

Okay. I cheated here. Hearing the same argument that Aranfan used. I went to see who had issued it first (I can see that there might be some sort of unfairness in the order in wich I read the ISOs but I think I can work around it objectively, especially if I reread the whole game later)
It appears that A_squirrel just mimicked Aranfan. But not only that. He claimed it was from random.org. This I find scummy. The need to "blame" the votes on someone else looks like a preemptive defense mechanism. His explanation for this is unsatisfying. Then I see of a lot that looks like scumhunting. I like it from there so I will call it a null-tell and watch it from here. He doesn't seem to push to much but that may be his playstyle.

questions:

ChiboSempai

I was eager to read this one. From the few quotes I've seen. I want to see if those questions and activity really aim somewhere. Ok. Post 4 is a nice town-tell for him regarding 5cvm. His annoyance seems genuine.

One thing that stood out to me is when 5cvm first said that TheButtonMen and xvart were scum, then Button goes and votes xvart. Just going ahead and agreeing with 5cvm almost makes me think that Button is trying to clear himself in everyone elses eyes by voting someone who has been called out as scum.

Noted. Very interesting.

sidenote

: I'm gonna go ahead and say. If there's a town killing role, off 5cvm. Don't hesitate for he is a huge liability for town at this point. Whatever his allignment.

sidenote

2: All in all. This is a very interesting game despite (and because of) the scum/VI/Jester WIFOM and all the reactions revolving around it.

questions:

Jesters in 3/6 games? Seriously? Can you link me to those?
You mentioned that mafia could kill 5cvm. highly unlikely, I say. Do you agree?
how is jester anti-mafia? It's one easy mislynch...
What's the use of hypothetical questions like "If you were scum/town/survivor..."?
do you still feel this way?
EDIT: What did you not like about xvart's posts? What's your current feel on him?

ConfidAnon

:Ok. I forgot to add notes. I like him. His inquiries seem genuine. His arguments seem so too.

sidenote

: mini normal with no vanillas should've never been approved. That's probably a sign of a bad mod.

questions:

If 5cvm is scum, Aranfan is his scumbuddy.

Do you think this is SO straightforward? Wouldn't it be best to buss him or just ignore him?
Explain your Chibosemapai vote. Why did you leave xvart? How do you feel about him now?
Why do you try to guess teammates with no flips? How is that pro-town?

Evilgorrilaz:

Looks confused and new but has already 600+ posts on site so he is NOT. Basically lurked the entire time. Lynch candidate.

hitogoroshi

I like. I like how he tries to reason with 5cvm. Seems like a smart player. I have a good feel about you but you posted very little... I'll eagerly wait for more.

sidenote

: He may have a point about people who are posting too much. When some post to much others lag behind. We need to be careful and avoid fluff.

rite

: Another one with practically no info. I agree with his thoughts about 5cvm but there's not much more. I'm starting to see a pattern here. Holidays...

Seregil

: The post where he votes Chibo is poorly explained but I can understand the possible reasoning. I'll think about it.

questions

I don't either. Perhaps instead of looking at Chibo and Confid I should be looking at Chibo and hito?

why?
Do you plan to follow up on Chibo? Don't you have any other questions for him?

TheButtonmen

:

Your account has been in 4 games, this one, DeathNote where you dropped out of, Bloodlust which had no joker and Crayola catastrophe, which while it did have a jester was also a Theme game. Yet you claim to be at the vary least 3 for 6 with jesters?

Same thing I asked. Nice.

questions

This post was written in jest, right?
So you think that scum has a scum posting style and that they are overt? That's why jester can be easyly confused with scum? Ok then. Who else is overt?

xvart

He changes his mind about the "coincidence". Uses a lot of words like "fabrication" and seems to look at everyone in a scum until proven otherwise way. Pessimistic/paranoid? I'm very sleepy atm. I think I'll read him tomorrow because he seems interesting.

sidenote: Village idiot and jester are 2 different things in Mafiascum.

questions

What's so bad about bandwaggons in RVS?
Was squirrel's post a coincidence, a lie or what? Why is it not scummy?

---

Some extra notes:
-Forgive me if you feel this was too large. I'll try to be as concise and to the point as possible in the future.
- I didn't vote anyone. I know. As a matter of fact.

unvote

just in case. I want to sleep on it and get some answers before anything.

Disclaimer: This post was made listening to Fatboy Slim. If you see any excessive rythm or intensity it, sue them.

[xvart]

Humble Poirot - interesting way to replace in. Looking forward to hearing how you think it turns out afterwards.

Uses a lot of words like "fabrication"

Yes, I do tend to be a little verbose. I like to write posts that are a little more extravagent to add some personal flavor.

and seems to look at everyone in a scum until proven otherwise way.

Good observation. This is also true.

xvart

He changes his mind about the "coincidence".

I didn't change my mind; I essentially said the exact same thing you did in your A_Squirrel analysis, minus the scumhunting; but I dropped my vote to move on to others. In fact, I got some serious heat for suggesting that I would remember this encounter after saying I would consider it null for the time being.

sidenote: Village idiot and jester are 2 different things in Mafiascum.

questions

What's so bad about bandwaggons in RVS?
Was squirrel's post a coincidence, a lie or what? Why is it not scummy?

re: village idiot

- I didn't know that. I will go look up the difference.

re: bandwagons

- nothing is wrong with bandwagons in RVS. And nothing is wrong with question bandwagons, either; at least in my eyes.

re: squirrel

- As I said, I don't believe it was a conincidence, but I don't necessarily find it scummy at this time. I don't think it was scummy because it feels more like just something posted off the cuff without putting much thought into it. I also would find it hard to believe that a scum would do something so silly unless it was a terrible attempt to bus him so early. I typically do not even consider RVS votes when looking at people's votes against others. When we lynch TheButtonmen and he flips scum, the first place I'm looking is A_Squirrel since he not only random votes but also justifies it as actually being random based on a website. If the scum team actually comes out A_Squirrel, TheButtonmen, and 5cvm I am going to crap myself.

Also, I will try and tone down on the long posts. When I play I prefer to read posts with lots of quotes so I don't have to look back and the information is easy to locate. I find it easier to reference and follow cases presented.

xvart.

[Evilgorrilaz]

Hey guys, i'm back from thanksgiving. Gimme a bit to reread.

[Aranfan]

I like Humble, he posts a lot of info and makes cognizant points. I feel he's town.

[5cvm]

Claiming scumbuddies is IMHO, a modkillable offense. Because, in the event of being scum, it would spoil the game and faking to break a rule should have the same punishment as breaking it. That said, the mod has no rules against it so it's fine.

These days you guys really have your extremely specific, well-aged, smelly cheese and desperately don't want anyone to move it, don't you!

Please note that it is in no way my intention to break rules, get mod killed, or in any way do anything other than win the game (for my team) (my team being the scum). The fact that I have to say that is very odd. xD

And to the inevitable "Why don't you answer my questions" post: Nevah. <3

One thing that stood out to me is when 5cvm first said that TheButtonMen and xvart were scum, then Button goes and votes xvart. Just going ahead and agreeing with 5cvm almost makes me think that Button is trying to clear himself in everyone elses eyes by voting someone who has been called out as scum.

Noted. Very interesting.

You're welcome. He

is

scum so you must be right about this. Go ahead and vote him now. <3

[Seregil]

Why is it only between those two players?

Exactly.

This is the strangest argument I've seen in about 20 games without a doubt. One can find 1 or 3 people suspicious but not 2. Talking about weak arguments...

Post 163 - So you find us suspicious because you disagree with us? That is an extremely weak reason imo.

Unvote, Vote: Seregil

I've been wondering why you didn't talk about my reasons being weak before (instead inventing your dichotomy theory) ??? They are. Considering that it is day 1 and at the time there were only 5 pages or so what did you expect? However the reactions to my post have been very useful

[Evilgorrilaz]

@Arafan
If you seem to support policy lynches (aka magis), why don't you support policy lynching people who are actively trying to confuse town?

@Humble
While I may have joined a long time ago, I was on hiatus for ~a year so forgive me as I am trying to get back into the game. Relearning as I go.

[Boxman]

Prod time!

Prodding hitogoroshi and rite.

Also, prods are now counted in the first post.

New Rule:

Rule 9b.

[hitogoroshi]

Sorry about that, guys, my time is kinda limited here and my large game is cresting at the same time so I'm being demanded everywhere. I should have something today, and if you want to catch me on AIM and find some sources for my biodiversity paper I'll have something for sure today .

[Evilgorrilaz]

Sorry about that, guys, my time is kinda limited here and my large game is cresting at the same time so I'm being demanded everywhere. I should have something today, and if you want to catch me on AIM and find some sources for my biodiversity paper I'll have something for sure today .

Academic dishonesty yo.

[hitogoroshi]

Hey, you guys can help me research it! Nothing wrong with that!

[ConfidAnon]

Do you think this is SO straightforward? Wouldn't it be best to buss him or just ignore him?
Explain your Chibosemapai vote. Why did you leave xvart? How do you feel about him now?
Why do you try to guess teammates with no flips? How is that pro-town?

1. No, its definitely not straightforward. I said it in a blunt manner to get reactions and add dramatic effect. AranFan was basically writing off 5cvm as scum. You can interpret it in different ways, but I feel that if 5cvm is scum, AranFan is likely scum because of it.

2. The ChiboSempai vote was only for reactions and to progress conversation away from jesters. I voted him because he was active, and therefore a vote that would likely spark some discussion.

3. How is it not pro-town? Scum are, excluding Masons, the only players in the game who know each others' alignments. Therefore, there will probably be some connections between them. Looking for those connections is a genuine scumhunting tactic. Obviously looking for connections should not be completely substituted for individual scummy behavior, but it can be a profitable line of inquiry.

This is the strangest argument I've seen in about 20 games without a doubt. One can find 1 or 3 people suspicious but not 2. Talking about weak arguments...

I'm not saying that there is a number of people that, should you find that number suspicious, is extremely scummy.

You picked two players (myself and Chibo) and said out of the two, one is scummier. By grouping two players together, you were making it sound like only one of the two could be scum. A situation where you have to choose A or B, no "all of the above" or "none of the above" available. As scum, you could easily get one of them lynched, have them flip town, and then move on to the other mislynch. Setting up a dichotomy is scummy.

I've been wondering why you didn't talk about my reasons being weak before (instead inventing your dichotomy theory) ??? They are. Considering that it is day 1 and at the time there were only 5 pages or so what did you expect? However the reactions to my post have been very useful

I expected a genuine scumtell, or at least some semblance of one.

Basically what you've done with your reasoning is something to the effect of this:

John: "I like baseball."

Sally: "I can't stand baseball, I like basketball."

John: "You're scum."

[hitogoroshi]

Wow, I've really been out of it this game, haven't I? My random vote is still there.

unvote

.

I like Confid and Poirot because their posts are very readable. Xvart, a common trick is to link to the post with a hyperlink rather than quoting something pick. Pruning your responses can't hurt either.

Seregil, I'm starting to think you're deliberately misinterpreting Confid's point. You have one more chance to understand why setting up dichotomies is scummy, especially when your reasoning is "those two didn't like xvart's posts."

5cvm is apparently hell-bent on being anti-town this whole game. Maybe he's jester, maybe he's an idiot scum, or even dumber town. Regardless nothing helpful is ever going to come out of that player slot and I don't see why we're okay with that. Let's bring this retarded drama to it's cross-eyed, drooling, impotent climax.

vote: 5cvm

. I don't have too much of a read on the others but that is literally irrelevant. If we don't lynch someone so brazenly anti-town our options are a.) do it later or b.) keep him around forever. a.) is pointless - we're less likely to have good scumreads now than later - and b.) is stupid for a plethora of reasons.

[Evilgorrilaz]

My only question at this point is: do we lynch 5cvm or hope we have a vig or something to kill him at night?

[ChiboSempai]

ChiboSempai

I was eager to read this one. From the few quotes I've seen. I want to see if those questions and activity really aim somewhere. Ok. Post 4 is a nice town-tell for him regarding 5cvm. His annoyance seems genuine.

One thing that stood out to me is when 5cvm first said that TheButtonMen and xvart were scum, then Button goes and votes xvart. Just going ahead and agreeing with 5cvm almost makes me think that Button is trying to clear himself in everyone elses eyes by voting someone who has been called out as scum.

Noted. Very interesting.

Welcome to the game! I especially like your first post. As everyone else said it's very neatly laid out, easy to read, etc. Already offering a lot of insight on what's been said.

As for your questions from your part on me...

-Sorry my count was a little off, it wasn't 3, it was 2. Though I am in the middle of other games were a Jester is suspected.
I haven't been playing mafia for too long so I haven't been in that many games though what I have been in:

Mafiascum

Bloodlust Mafia - Game Over
Crayola Catastrophe - Game Over, Jester lynched D1
Mafia in the Village - D1 lol

Smash World Forums

Grammys Mafia - Game Over, Can't Link (Thread is in Mod only area), Jester lynched D1
Anime Mafia - D3, Can't Link (Thread is in Mod only area)
Mafia Tournament Sleepover - N2
Monster Island Mafia - D1

Those are all my games incase anyone is interested. The order that they started were - Grammys, Bloodlust, Crayola, Tournament, Anime, Mafia in the Village, Monster Island. Jesters confirmed in 2 of those 7 games, even still leaving quite an impression on me though.

-It's possible, I was more just stating all of the possibilities. If 5cvm is a Jester then all the mafia knows is that they aren't one of them. For all they know to them that he could possibly be town. With all of 5cvms random claims if he accidentally guessed right (perhaps like Button in the post of mine you quoted). Even though a Jester could distract the town, with the way 5cvm is playing he could be drawing unneeded attention to possibly scum members, something they may not want.

-I mean let's face it, Jester is more anti-town than anti-mafia I would say, though a Jester can still draw unneeded attention to the scum (with how 5cvm is playing at least) and it's still another role that can take away an ideal win from the scum.

-The questions were more for to get a feel for everyones play styles. I read over the questions but didn't look too much into it yet. Everyone can use their answers as they want. I like to look for consistency in how ppl play. If I can tell from their answers that they would normally play a certain way (especially if I say like what would you do in such and such situation if you were town) and I see them acting completely different in this game, I know something is up.

-I haven't seen anyone else yet sort of slip up as much as Aranfan. I could be wrong, hell, no one is ever 100% on their votes especially in a D1 scenario, but after what he did when I first voted him and now trying to push a quick lynch on you (or should I say the role b4 you joined) when the mod already said he was going to be replaced feels like scum trying to quickly end the day without much discussion and ending it on who could potentially not be a scum member.

-Here is what I said about xvart's posts: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 31#1985031

[rite]

Hey team--

Sorry I haven't been around, just started a new job and things have been busy (and this game, at least to me, running somewhat slow)

vote: 5cvm

I want this day to end. I've already made my thoughts on 5cvm clear-- think he's just goofing around. I'm tired of it.

[ConfidAnon]

rite

- Why do you want this day to end?

Seregil

- How were the reactions to your post useful?

[Aranfan]

Wait, how does it follow that if 5cvm is scum then so am I?

[Seregil]

Setting up a dichotomy is scummy.

I only have 1 vote so I have to pick one. Again you are essentially saying that you can't discuss two people as being scummy because then you are scummy. You

both

were questioning xvart when I found nothing really questionable about his posts. Therefore I felt I had to pick one of you and I did.

2. The ChiboSempai vote was only for reactions and to progress conversation away from jesters. I voted him because he was active, and therefore a vote that would likely spark some discussion.

I expected a genuine scumtell, or at least some semblance of one.

Really? That's funny. You just said you voted for Chibo

to get a reaction

. Where is the scumtell in that vote??? You should really try to follow your own logic.

Your posts (Confid) have been the ones that are useful to me. First in reaction to my post and now in reaction to Humble's question. I'm really thinking of voting for Confid.

[rite]

Because I'm not a fan at all of day ones, where everything is just conjecture based on little evidence. After the first night, when you can go back and look at previous posts and try to glean something, that's what I like in this game, not the he-said she-said stuff that, in my experience, usually just ends with a random person getting lynched anyway.

On an unrelated note,

mod

, I'm out of town on business until Monday, and my internet access will be sporadic if existent.

[Humble Poirot]

Sorry for the huge delay... I had not finished my post and then I was busy and pushed this forward, I'll post in 5 hs...

[TheButtonmen]

Yo, I'm back, Actual post more this evening.

[Boxman]

rite's V/LA noted.

[TheButtonmen]

@ Rite

, What's stopping you from looking at previous posts and trying to glean something during D1 and you realize that just giving up on D1 and not scum hunting until day two is quite anti-town?

@ Humble

, What do you mean I said scum is overt? If they were this game would be a hell of allot easier. Also Welcome to the game, hope you enjoy your stay and if you don;t mind me asking what's your previous experience with mafia?

@ Evilgorrilaz

, I of the opinion ending D1 with a policy lynch right now seems to be giving Mafia a free turn. We don;t know enough that I feel like we should bring day 1 to a close but we do know enough I think we can make a choice based on something other then annoyance

@ Arafan

, Who do you find the most scummy at this point and is there any questions you think should be asked?

[ConfidAnon]

I only have 1 vote so I have to pick one. Again you are essentially saying that you can't discuss two people as being scummy because then you are scummy. You both were questioning xvart when I found nothing really questionable about his posts. Therefore I felt I had to pick one of you and I did.

No I'm not. I could care less if you suspect me or not, but you mentioned two players, then said one is scummier. Your post set up a dichotomy. If it was between 5cvm and, oh I don't know, Aranfan, I'd still have a problem with it.

Really? That's funny. You just said you voted for Chibo to get a reaction. Where is the scumtell in that vote??? You should really try to follow your own logic.

Your posts (Confid) have been the ones that are useful to me. First in reaction to my post and now in reaction to Humble's question. I'm really thinking of voting for Confid.

I see your point about the reaction vote, but my point about your vote is still valid.

Hmmm . . . why not vote me? I'm fairly certain I don't have any votes, and if you find me scummy (translation: OMGUS), what's the point of not voting? The last bit of your post sounds like you testing the waters to see if you could get a bandwagon going on me reasonably. Your getting scummier and scummier.