Mafia 103 - Ktown Mafia (Game Over)

[Wickedestjr]

Questions that were never answered;

No, I like the RVS, dont force people out of it, it will come naturally.

How?

CrueKnight - Do you believe Haylen's claim?

cruelty - How many scumbuddies do you have apart from Mr. Squirrel?

YamiJoey - Why did you take so long to confirm? Were you discussing tactics with your scumbuddies?

Scott Brosius - Who do you think is more likely to be scum: malpascp or SolemnJ?

Mr. Squirrel - Are you good at scumhunting? Should I keep my expectations high?

Torqez - What do you think of Furry's vote for you?

VistaSoldier - Which one of these four players is most likely to be scum and which is most likely to be town and give reasons for both;

Scott Brosius
cruelty
Torqez
Katniss

[Haylen]

Sorry for the long post. They will get shorter once we are out of the RVS. Consider that additional motivation to get us out of the RVS. Very Happy

No >.> Haylen likes jokes. She likes the RVS. She also likes very long posts! See cr3t1n's mafia for details.

[Haylen]

Questions that were never answered;

No, I like the RVS, dont force people out of it, it will come naturally.

How?

Magic!

[Furry]

Because I only replace into games (one played from start I think). Plus I have talked with a few people in the game, wanted to play with them, so yeah. I never want to play as scum though, its so frustrating to create and keep track of a line of thought.

How would your playstyle change if you were playing as scum in comparison to your play as town?

Not much. I have a nice and flat meta, only a few people have ever been able to meta me with success.

Is your vote serious?

The reasons I voted for Haylen weren't serious, but I voted her for a serious reason.

This didnt answer my question, so lets try a rewording.

Did you consider your vote part of the RVS, or an end to the RVS?

[J-Fox]

Scum duh

If you are serious, then

Unvote Vote: J-Fox

If this wasn't a serious answer, then why didn't you answer seriously? Did you think I was serious or not?

I didn't answer seriously because I wanted to see what you'd say if I said I was scum. Your answer is a quite good one.

[CrueKnight]

CrueKnight - Do you believe Haylen's claim?

I already said I was confused since she claimed like 2-3 claims. After she explained what the RVS was, then of coarse I don't believe it.

[Mr. Squirrel]

Wicked, what the hell is with all these questions? If you were asking anything useful, I wouldn't be complaining, but half of these are completely pointless or can be answered if you would just read the thread. For example:

CrueKnight - Do you believe Haylen's claim?

I don't think anyone believes her claim. IF they do, then they can't tell a joke when they read it.

cruelty - How many scumbuddies do you have apart from Mr. Squirrel?

Are you accusing he and I of being scum based only on the RVS? I'm assuming this question is asked in the hopes that cruelty will answer in an extremely stupid way and give away his alignment, but srsly? I think even the worst scum player on earth, if asked this question, would know not answer it.

Mr. Squirrel - Are you good at scumhunting? Should I keep my expectations high?

Does it matter?

How would your playstyle change if you were playing as scum in comparison to your play as town?

*facepalm*
Ummmm...maybe in the fact that if you are scum you have completely different objectives than if you are town. Did you really need to ask this question?

The reasons I voted for Haylen weren't serious, but I voted her for a serious reason.

This makes absolutely no sense, but then again, neither does anything else you say.



I really hope all of these questions are just a desperate attempt to end the RVS. If you are gonna be asking things like this all game, I'm just not gonna read your posts.

[CrueKnight]

Wicked, are you wicked IRL??? Are you really what you look in your avatar? Are you a guy?

[Katniss]

Wickedestjr: Just to reiterate, what Mr. Squirrel said. Really, what is with all these questions. Alot of them, are basically noise posts, that aren't very useful in rooting out scum, and have no real effect on the game. Maybe it's your attempt to appear as if you are helping out the town, by posting all these (albeit: filler) questions. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, that you are merely trying to help end the RVS, and get some kind of read on everyone.

I'm going to answer the questions that are ueseful for the game, rather than the ones that ask (What would you do if:

X

happened?)

Right now, I'm looking at Torqez and Crueknight. They both voted for Furry. Both were bandwagon votes.

How do you know they were bandwagon votes?

Bandwagon:

Several Votes on the same player to try to Lynch them or force them to roleclaim; especially used if the votes come in quick succession and without independent reasons.

What is it then if it isn't bandwagoning? Torqez and Crueknight both voted the same player, in quick succession without independent reasons. The only other possible explanation I can think of, is that the votes are attributed to a 'rookie mistake' as I've seen happen in a couple games before.

Not that bandwagoning is automatically a scum sign, but he has hopped on to two so far, which isn't really "random." And it's all I got to work with right now.

As for Torqez, his vote on Furry, was both a Bandwagon and OMGUS Vote. Again, Bandwagon votes, aren't an automatic scum sign, but it's all I got to work from right now.

What is wrong with bandwagoning? Also, why don't you vote for them if it's the best thing you've got?

Sorry for the long post. They will get shorter once we are out of the RVS. Consider that additional motivation to get us out of the RVS.

Nothing is necessarily 'wrong' with bandwagoning, but mafia do use that as a tactic to pile up votes on a person, for a quick lynch. On the other hand, as seen in this day 1 it appears to be a good thing, because it can start up more serious discussion.

I didn't vote, because there are

two

options I had to pick between. I'm also giving them a chance to defend themselves, so I can get an accurate read, before using my vote.

[Katniss]

Wow. You actually made up stuff there Kat. :p I was surprised, because I had no idea what the votes were.

I was going to random vote you but decided not to.

Damn I hate being in the spotlight in the beginning all the time.

I created a theory based off of what I've read, not stuff I've made up, without a basis. And unfortunately, you were one of those that I had some info to create a theory off of. Sorry it seems that you're in the spotlight but we got to start somewhere, eh? Well how about this: What do you think of Torqez? Or any other player so far?

[SolemnJ]

Random stage ends when no one else is random voting silly. We usually want this to happen as soon as possible so that we can get on with the game.

Why not do anything to end it? If you try hard enough you can kill the RVS a couple pages in max.

@Kat - Why is bandwagoning bad? I think its a great way to get a game rolling

@SJ - Any luck with ending the RVS?

We're getting there.

So what needs to be done to get there? What can you do to get us there?

Also, I still don't see what CrueKnight's voting habits were as a valid scumtell. But its worth a finger of suspicion.

Why FoS? Why not vote? What is the line between the two?

1. Stop random voting. I do this by doing what I'm doing. To end the RVS, just enamate feelings of RVS-endingness

2. The line between the two is how valid I feel the suspicion.

***

@Wickedestjr:

The point was to note it and see what the town thought of it. My overall TONE in that post was not serious.

I tell you what I'm going to do b/c I'm methodical like that. If you could metagame me, you'd see that that's just what I do. I'll post my thoughts when I have valid suspicions.

***

Also, Crueknight seems to be a spammer this Mafia.

[Torqez]

Torqez - What do you think of Furry's vote for you?

It sucks! Hence my OMGUSness!

Although, Civil Engineers are much below Electrical and Electronic Engineers in the hierarchy - I have nothing to worry about!

[Furry]

Torqez - What do you think of Furry's vote for you?

It sucks! Hence my OMGUSness!

Although, Civil Engineers are much below Electrical and Electronic Engineers in the hierarchy - I have nothing to worry about!

Well maybe I will just let the Oakland area sewer system collapse tomorrow at work instead of working on replacing old lines.

1. Stop random voting. I do this by doing what I'm doing. To end the RVS, just enamate feelings of RVS-endingness

2. The line between the two is how valid I feel the suspicion.

Thats now how you end the random voting stage. The fact that so many people are complaining about it though and showing no real push to get out of it (what the hell really?) I will go do it for you guys.

unvote
Vote Solemnj

You obviously think that CK is scummy for something he is doing, which means that the RVS should be over. Instead of voting him and getting us out of the random stage, you are just looking at it as something to note, and moving on. So as town you are either ignoring a scum tell, refusing to put a foot forward for progress, or intentionally prolonging the RVS. What would make the FoS worthy of a vote? Where is that line for you?

Weeeeeee... random stage over. People can pay me in hugs.

[SolemnJ]

Hm...thats interesting thinking.

But my voting patterns are different than yours, and I see no difference between voting for a player and saying my beliefs, and just stating what I think.

Besides, isnt the RVS over if people are using logic in their attacks?

[malpascp]

Good point

unvote Vote: Furry

I think you and CK are scumbuddies. Your last post simply tryed to make something (desperate) just because Solemn didn vote CK.

[Kdub]

Vote Count

CrueKnight (1)

- CrueKnight

Furry (4)

- J-Fox, Mr. Squirrel, Torqez, malpascp

cruelty (0)

-

YamiJoey (0)

-

Scott Brosius (0)

-

Mr. Squirrel (0)

-

Wickedestjr (0)

-

malpascp (0)

-

J-Fox (2)

- SolemnJ, Wickedestjr

SolemnJ (1)

- Furry

DeathNote (0)

-

Torqez (0)

-

VistaSoldier (0)

-

Katniss (0)

-

Haylen (1)

- Haylen

No Lynch (0)

-

Not Voting (6)

- cruelty, YamiJoey, Scott Brosius, DeathNote, VistaSoldier, Katniss

15 players alive, 8 votes needed to lynch.

[Furry]

But my voting patterns are different than yours, and I see no difference between voting for a player and saying my beliefs, and just stating what I think.

There is a big difference in accountability. I tend to yell at people for not getting this, but its not the same to say "I think X is scum" "FoS X" and "Vote X". They all hold different levels of belief and are treated differently in (at least my) analysis.

People who dont want to vote, are trying not to take any strong stances while still appearing active as possible. This means that by only saying "I think" and "FoS" you are trying to avoid taking any responsability for your actions and votes, and therefore are scummy.

Besides, isnt the RVS over if people are using logic in their attacks?

Yes. As soon as someone makes a non-random vote the RVS is over in my books.

[Wickedestjr]

Questions that were never answered;

No, I like the RVS, dont force people out of it, it will come naturally.

How?

Magic!

Can you show me a game where players got out of the RVS without trying to?

Did you consider your vote part of the RVS, or an end to the RVS?

Neither. It wasn't really part of the RVS I don't think, because it was an attempt to push us out of the RVS. It also didn't end the RVS.

1: I didn't answer seriously because I wanted to see what you'd say if I said I was scum. 2: Your answer is a quite good one.

1: That didn't seem like what you were trying to do when you responded. Also, your response didn't seem to have a serious intention behind it;

Scum duh

Wait, did I say that out loud?? Sh-

It looks like you were trying to make it obvious that you were joking, which would defeat the purpose of your reason for responding in that manner. So it looks to me like you are lying, and I'm liking my vote more.


2: How so?

Wicked, what the hell is with all these questions? If you were asking anything useful, I wouldn't be complaining, but half of these are completely pointless or can be answered if you would just read the thread. For example:

CrueKnight - Do you believe Haylen's claim?

I don't think anyone believes her claim. IF they do, then they can't tell a joke when they read it.

I don't regret asking the questions I did. I think that as long as they are game-related, they will help contribute to the discussion, no matter how stupid they are. For example, you thought my questions were stupid so you make this complain which started a serious discussion between us which is good.

cruelty - How many scumbuddies do you have apart from Mr. Squirrel?

Are you accusing he and I of being scum based only on the RVS? I'm assuming this question is asked in the hopes that cruelty will answer in an extremely stupid way and give away his alignment, but srsly? I think even the worst scum player on earth, if asked this question, would know not answer it.

I'm not going to explain until cruelty answers the question.

Mr. Squirrel - Are you good at scumhunting? Should I keep my expectations high?

Does it matter?

Nope. I didn't really want you to respond.

Please answer the question.

How would your playstyle change if you were playing as scum in comparison to your play as town?

*facepalm*
Ummmm...maybe in the fact that if you are scum you have completely different objectives than if you are town. Did you really need to ask this question?

Obviously. I was hoping he would respond by explaining the difference in the way he plays as scum vs. town. I was hoping for a brief description of his metas.

The reasons I voted for Haylen weren't serious, but I voted her for a serious reason.

This makes absolutely no sense, but then again, neither does anything else you say.

I can understand why you would misunderstand that. I meant that the reasons I voted for Haylen were serious ones, but I voted for her for a serious

purpose.

Hopefully that clears that up.

I really hope all of these questions are just a desperate attempt to end the RVS. If you are gonna be asking things like this all game, I'm just not gonna read your posts.

When we are discussing seriously, I will not question every little thing that people say. All of my game related questions will be serious. Are you glad that I am attempting to get us out of the RVS, or do you think I just shouldn't have ever tried?

[SolemnJ]

Hm. Good lesson, then, anyways.

...Chainsaw Defense?

unvote; vote Crueknight

There, happy?

Now...question: why does Furry have so many votes on him?

[Wickedestjr]

Wicked, are you wicked IRL???

Sometimes.

Are you really what you look in your avatar?

No.

Are you a guy?

Yes. Look at the blue arrow under my avatar.

CK, what was the purpose of asking these questions?

Wickedestjr: Just to reiterate, what Mr. Squirrel said. Really, what is with all these questions. Alot of them, are basically noise posts, that aren't very useful in rooting out scum, and have no real effect on the game. Maybe it's your attempt to appear as if you are helping out the town, by posting all these (albeit: filler) questions. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, that you are merely trying to help end the RVS, and get some kind of read on everyone.

I'm going to answer the questions that are ueseful for the game, rather than the ones that ask (What would you do if: X happened?)

See my response to Mr. Squirrel.

What is it then if it isn't bandwagoning? Torqez and Crueknight both voted the same player, in quick succession without independent reasons. The only other possible explanation I can think of, is that the votes are attributed to a 'rookie mistake' as I've seen happen in a couple games before.

Let me rephrase that question. Do you think CK and Torqez were deliberately trying to help a bandwagon or were just randomly voting?

Nothing is necessarily 'wrong' with bandwagoning, but mafia do use that as a tactic to pile up votes on a person, for a quick lynch. On the other hand, as seen in this day 1 it appears to be a good thing, because it can start up more serious discussion.

I'm not going to get into an argument with you about whether bandwagoning is good or not, but usually bandwagons are good for the town, even if they are random bandwagons in the RVS.

I'm also giving them a chance to defend themselves, so I can get an accurate read, before using my vote.

Why? You are allowed to vote and unvote as much as you want. Wouldn't you get a better read by pressuring them with a vote before they answer?

2. The line between the two is how valid I feel the suspicion.

I sense a contradiction. You want to get out of the RVS badly, yet you don't vote for somebody when they are worthy of an FoS, when none of the other options for a vote you have shown any interest in. Why?

@Wickedestjr:

The point was to note it and see what the town thought of it. My overall TONE in that post was not serious.

I tell you what I'm going to do b/c I'm methodical like that. If you could metagame me, you'd see that that's just what I do. I'll post my thoughts when I have valid suspicions.

What was this in response to? Also, I asked more than just one question to you. Please answer them all.

[Wickedestjr]

Dislike the ideas of Furry chainsaw defending CK. First of all, it isn't even chainsawing. Second of all, we don't know the allignment of either one of them. Third of all, Furry seems pretty pro-town.

[SolemnJ]

Precisely; I'm wondering why Furry has so many votes on him.

To your question: If logical discussion has begun, the RVS is null. Besides, I would have voted earlier, if I wasnt in a rush, and then I got stubborn b/c people were telling me to vote.
Furry was just half agreeing w/ me. I feel that the RVS is ended when logical discussion begins. He feels that votes must be put down.
I suppose I miss the point of votes- to vote for who you think is scum.

Now I know that I should vote for those I suspect, too. /new at this. Sorta.

That statement u quoted was in response to the question of
"Why would I even say that if it wasnt serious?"

[Mr. Squirrel]

Wicked, what the hell is with all these questions? If you were asking anything useful, I wouldn't be complaining, but half of these are completely pointless or can be answered if you would just read the thread. For example:

CrueKnight - Do you believe Haylen's claim?

I don't think anyone believes her claim. IF they do, then they can't tell a joke when they read it.

I don't regret asking the questions I did. I think that as long as they are game-related, they will help contribute to the discussion, no matter how stupid they are. For example, you thought my questions were stupid so you make this complain which started a serious discussion between us which is good.

I disagree. Asking stupid questions just spams up the thread and distracts us from any real evidence that other players might have or any scummy actions of theirs. Plus, it just makes you look stupid and detracts from any credibility I give your posts in the future.

Mr. Squirrel - Are you good at scumhunting? Should I keep my expectations high?

Does it matter?

Nope. I didn't really want you to respond.

Please answer the question.

I refuse. Whether or not I am good at scumhunting will be seen by my actions in game. Besides, that is a loaded question. If I say yes, you will forever hound my posts and if I ever slack in my scunhunting you say that I am scum who is not trying to help the town. On the other hand, if I answer that I'm not a good scumhunter, you will just say that I'm scum trying to set your expectations low so that you don't suspect me later on.

Just for that,

vote wicked

I really hope all of these questions are just a desperate attempt to end the RVS. If you are gonna be asking things like this all game, I'm just not gonna read your posts.

When we are discussing seriously, I will not question every little thing that people say. All of my game related questions will be serious. Are you glad that I am attempting to get us out of the RVS, or do you think I just shouldn't have ever tried?

I'm glad we are leaving the RVS, but I don't think your questions are at all the proper way to do it.

[Katniss]

What is it then if it isn't bandwagoning? Torqez and Crueknight both voted the same player, in quick succession without independent reasons. The only other possible explanation I can think of, is that the votes are attributed to a 'rookie mistake' as I've seen happen in a couple games before.

Let me rephrase that question. Do you think CK and Torqez were deliberately trying to help a bandwagon or were just randomly voting?

Both voted on one person, Furry, who hasn't done anything to warrant a vote yet. The votes boosted Furry who already had a couple votes, to be the top person for a lynch. It doesn't seem very random, for two people to happen, to randomly vote on the same person, with that person also being the top vote getter.

I've said this already, but the only possible reason I can think of, is the rookie mistake vote, which gets innocent newer players lynched on day 1.

Though CK did unvote Furry, I see that malpascp, has also added his vote to the Furry train.

I'm also giving them a chance to defend themselves, so I can get an accurate read, before using my vote.

Why? You are allowed to vote and unvote as much as you want. Wouldn't you get a better read by pressuring them with a vote before they answer?

What is the point of the FoS if you can't use it? I also, repeat, I had

two

people I had to vote for; Torqez and CK, and now I have another one added to that list, malpascp. I had to choose between them, and at the same time, I don't feel too strongly on anyone of the three in particular just yet.

Wickedest, some of your questions right now, on people who haven't done anything suspicious, seem like a distraction, to keep from actual scumhunting. This in itself seems suspicious. I can see the build-up you are using to discredit and make people like myself seem scummy, in my case the fact that I FoS people instead of voting on someone. People don't like the FoS in this thread, for some reason, so fine I'll go with that plan, and

VOTE: Wickedestjr.

For reasons stated.

[CrueKnight]

What is it then if it isn't bandwagoning? Torqez and Crueknight both voted the same player, in quick succession without independent reasons. The only other possible explanation I can think of, is that the votes are attributed to a 'rookie mistake' as I've seen happen in a couple games before.

TBH, I random voted. And nobody else had a reason for voting. So I did the same.