Mini 867- TTGL Mafia: GAME OVER: Roles posted.

[Vi]

Vi, why do you want to lynch Yos?

For spearheading this lynch like it's the only option we have.
That and calling out Seraphim like there's an out-there chance he's a n00by inexperienced player and not someone who has been on this site for about as long as I have (not to mention someone who /ins for a lot of bastard games).

[Yosarian2]

Vi, why do you want to lynch Yos?

For spearheading this lynch like it's the only option we have.

Well, it is. Duh. If he's telling the truth, then we lynch him, find out he's telling the truth, and then find scum. It's simply the correct move here.

That and calling out Seraphim like there's an out-there chance he's a n00by inexperienced player and not someone who has been on this site for about as long as I have (not to mention someone who /ins for a lot of bastard games).

Did you read my post? I specifically said that I did NOT think Seraphim is a likely to be VI who'd daykill someone and then lie about his role as town, which is part of the reason we SHOULD lynch him, because I think he's probably either telling the truth or lying scum.

[MonkeyMan576]

I don't think it's the only option we have, it's just the proverbial giant elephant in the room. He's claimed responsibility for killing a townie, and not given good justification for doing it, besides hoping he'd get lucky.

Either I want more justification or my vote stays.

[MonkeyMan576]

Actually, I believe it is an FOS and not a vote at this point...but you get my drift.

[Vi]

Vi, why do you want to lynch Yos?

For spearheading this lynch like it's the only option we have.

Well, it is. Duh. If he's telling the truth, then we lynch him, find out __ he's telling the truth, and then find scum. It's simply the correct move here.

And before Rule 18 was clarified and thus it was only possible to attempt to lynch Seraphim OR lynch someone else, would you say that his lynch was the only option?
(Also, nice lack of "if" )

That and calling out Seraphim like there's an out-there chance he's a n00by inexperienced player and not someone who has been on this site for about as long as I have (not to mention someone who /ins for a lot of bastard games).

Did you read my post? I specifically said that I did NOT think Seraphim is a likely to be VI who'd daykill someone and then lie about his role as town, which is part of the reason we SHOULD lynch him, because I think he's probably either telling the truth or lying scum.

I don't read anyone else's posts and I do just fine

I can see a pro-Town motive for killing Boxman. Contrast

On the other hand, there's

absolutly no reason

for a pro-town day-vig to vig early in the day instead of later, when he might actually hit scum. None at all.

His actions so far this game would make the most sense if he's a scum day-killer, like a day-SK or a mafia with a one-shot kill, running a gambit to try to use his daykill to "confirm" himself.

That's not the only explination,

but just based on his daykill and the weak explination he gave for it (not to mention his SK-claim before that), it makes the most sense.

which is so ambiguously closed-minded that I find it scummy.

[MonkeyMan576]

Vi, why do you want to lynch Yos?

For spearheading this lynch like it's the only option we have.

Well, it is. Duh. If he's telling the truth, then we lynch him, find out __ he's telling the truth, and then find scum. It's simply the correct move here.

And before Rule 18 was clarified and thus it was only possible to attempt to lynch Seraphim OR lynch someone else, would you say that his lynch was the only option?
(Also, nice lack of "if" )

That and calling out Seraphim like there's an out-there chance he's a n00by inexperienced player and not someone who has been on this site for about as long as I have (not to mention someone who /ins for a lot of bastard games).

Did you read my post? I specifically said that I did NOT think Seraphim is a likely to be VI who'd daykill someone and then lie about his role as town, which is part of the reason we SHOULD lynch him, because I think he's probably either telling the truth or lying scum.

I don't read anyone else's posts and I do just fine

I can see a pro-Town motive for killing Boxman. Contrast

On the other hand, there's

absolutly no reason

for a pro-town day-vig to vig early in the day instead of later, when he might actually hit scum. None at all.

His actions so far this game would make the most sense if he's a scum day-killer, like a day-SK or a mafia with a one-shot kill, running a gambit to try to use his daykill to "confirm" himself.

That's not the only explination,

but just based on his daykill and the weak explination he gave for it (not to mention his SK-claim before that), it makes the most sense.

which is so ambiguously closed-minded that I find it scummy.

What's a convincing pro-town reason to kill another townie? I can't think of one. Why not wait until you have more information?

[Cobalt]

Yos, if Sera is lying, why hasn't there been a Kamina counterclaim?

[MonkeyMan576]

Yos, if Sera is lying, why hasn't there been a Kamina counterclaim?

Are you assuming Kamina is town? If so, why?

[Vi]

What's a convincing pro-town reason to kill another townie? I can't think of one. Why not wait until you have more information?

I'll let you stare at this one until you see the argument from hindsight.

[Yosarian2]

Vi, why do you want to lynch Yos?

For spearheading this lynch like it's the only option we have.

Well, it is. Duh. If he's telling the truth, then we lynch him, find out __ he's telling the truth, and then find scum. It's simply the correct move here.

And before Rule 18 was clarified and thus it was only possible to attempt to lynch Seraphim OR lynch someone else, would you say that his lynch was the only option?
(Also, nice lack of "if" )

I don't really think rule 18 needed to be clarified; I would always normally assume that if someone is told by the mod in their role PM they're unlynchable, that they actually are.

Also, I don't need an "if" there. The whole sentence is an "if/then" clause. "IF he is town, THEN (we lynch him, find out he's telling the truth, and move on)." It's just a shame natural language is less precise then computer language.

That and calling out Seraphim like there's an out-there chance he's a n00by inexperienced player and not someone who has been on this site for about as long as I have (not to mention someone who /ins for a lot of bastard games).

Did you read my post? I specifically said that I did NOT think Seraphim is a likely to be VI who'd daykill someone and then lie about his role as town, which is part of the reason we SHOULD lynch him, because I think he's probably either telling the truth or lying scum.

I don't read anyone else's posts and I do just fine

I can see a pro-Town motive for killing Boxman. Contrast

On the other hand, there's

absolutly no reason

for a pro-town day-vig to vig early in the day instead of later, when he might actually hit scum. None at all.

His actions so far this game would make the most sense if he's a scum day-killer, like a day-SK or a mafia with a one-shot kill, running a gambit to try to use his daykill to "confirm" himself.

That's not the only explination,

but just based on his daykill and the weak explination he gave for it (not to mention his SK-claim before that), it makes the most sense.

which is so ambiguously closed-minded that I find it scummy.

"Ambiguously close minded"? A pro-town person shouldn't daykill someone on page 2 of day 1, it's just a horrible move. Even if you're 100% convinced you've caught scum that early, you should still pressure them, vote them, see who defends them and who goes along, and THEN daykill them. The way he did it was just incredibly anti-town. Besides the fact that, you know, he killed a townie on page 2 of the game and refused to give any reason. And still hasn't.

What, exactally, was your reasoning for thinking Boxman was scum?

[Vi]

Vi, why do you want to lynch Yos?

For spearheading this lynch like it's the only option we have.

Well, it is. Duh. If he's telling the truth, then we lynch him, find out __ he's telling the truth, and then find scum. It's simply the correct move here.

And before Rule 18 was clarified and thus it was only possible to attempt to lynch Seraphim OR lynch someone else, would you say that his lynch was the only option?
(Also, nice lack of "if" )

I don't really think rule 18 needed to be clarified; I would always normally assume that if someone is told by the mod in their role PM they're unlynchable, that they actually are.

Nyaaaaa, this isn't going where I want it to.
Why is lynching Seraphim literally the

only

option, as opposed to believing him?

That and calling out Seraphim like there's an out-there chance he's a n00by inexperienced player and not someone who has been on this site for about as long as I have (not to mention someone who /ins for a lot of bastard games).

Did you read my post? I specifically said that I did NOT think Seraphim is a likely to be VI who'd daykill someone and then lie about his role as town, which is part of the reason we SHOULD lynch him, because I think he's probably either telling the truth or lying scum.

I don't read anyone else's posts and I do just fine

I can see a pro-Town motive for killing Boxman. Contrast

On the other hand, there's

absolutly no reason

for a pro-town day-vig to vig early in the day instead of later, when he might actually hit scum. None at all.

His actions so far this game would make the most sense if he's a scum day-killer, like a day-SK or a mafia with a one-shot kill, running a gambit to try to use his daykill to "confirm" himself.

That's not the only explination,

but just based on his daykill and the weak explination he gave for it (not to mention his SK-claim before that), it makes the most sense.

which is so ambiguously closed-minded that I find it scummy.

"Ambiguously close minded"? A pro-town person shouldn't daykill someone on page 2 of day 1, it's just a horrible move. Even if you're 100% convinced you've caught scum that early, you should still pressure them, vote them, see who defends them and who goes along, and THEN daykill them. The way he did it was just incredibly anti-town. Besides the fact that, you know, he killed a townie on page 2 of the game and refused to give any reason. And still hasn't.

Shouldn't

, but does that necessarily mean Seraphim is nonTown (notice I'm not using terms like

anti-Town

or

scum

) for doing so? I don't think I've ever seen Mafia pull a stunt like this, but I've

definitely

seen Town do things like that (forbiddanlight, Natirasha, Fritzler, all the people you know and love).

What, exactally, was your reasoning for thinking Boxman was scum?

Good question, but for integrity reasons I'll think that question would be best redirected to

Seraphim

.

[Cobalt]

xofelf, you should have content to post by now.

[Jahudo]

Just to clarify my stance, I believe that hammering Seraphim will do nothing. Day will not end, fl will shrug and say to keep playing, and then we'll all unvote and find scum.

Now let's here more from Jebus, xofelf and Cacho. They really haven't given an opinion on Sera yet.

[MonkeyMan576]

Just to clarify my stance, I believe that hammering Seraphim will do nothing. Day will not end, fl will shrug and say to keep playing, and then we'll all unvote and find scum.

Now let's here more from Jebus, xofelf and Cacho. They really haven't given an opinion on Sera yet.

Why do you believe this?

[Jahudo]

Based on past games with Seraphim, I don't think he'd make a lying gambit as town.

[MonkeyMan576]

Based on past games with Seraphim, I don't think he'd make a lying gambit as town.

Most townies don't lie...this doesn't explain why you don't think he's scum.

[Jahudo]

Based on past games with Seraphim, I don't think he'd make a lying gambit as town.

Most townies don't lie...this doesn't explain why you don't think he's scum.

I don't think he's done anything outright scummy.

[Yosarian2]

Nyaaaaa, this isn't going where I want it to.
Why is lynching Seraphim literally the

only

option, as opposed to believing him?

In a mafia game, which would you rather do; just believe someone is telling the truth, or find out for a fact if they are, if there's no cost to finding out?

In mafia game, Facts > beliefs, by far. If you can get some actual hard facts, and build from there, you're way ahead of the game.

If they're real, easily confirmable roles are basically the mods' gift to the town. If someone claims an easily confirmable role, town should always confirm it ASAP, especally if doing so dosn't cost the town anything, which this apparently dosn't.

I mean, at this point, we can find out if he's telling the truth for free. If he's lying scum, he'll probably die, and if he's town and telling the truth, he'll be confirmed and we'll get to lynch someone else. Not doing that would be like the mod offering the town a free confirmed accurate cop investigation and the town saying "Neah, no thanks". It's really a no-brainer.

Shouldn't

, but does that necessarily mean Seraphim is nonTown (notice I'm not using terms like

anti-Town

or

scum

) for doing so? I don't think I've ever seen Mafia pull a stunt like this, but I've

definitely

seen Town do things like that (forbiddanlight, Natirasha, Fritzler, all the people you know and love).

I have seen scum pull stuff like that, actually. There was one famous (offsite) game where Baby Jesus was a scum with a daykill, and he just kept blatently killing off town in broad daylight, saying that he was killing people in order to "confirm their alignment", lol.

I certanly do agree that careless use of daykills is a mistake pro-town players sometimes make; hey, I was in two of the Bad Idea Mafia games. Still, if a person does an anti-town action, the rest of the town should both question him and pressure him until he explains himself properly.

Of course, that's not actually that important at the moment. I don't think a purely unlynchable scum daykiller is very likely, for obvious reasons, so if we lynch him and nothing happens, I'll most likely drop the suspicions related to the daykill, at least for the time being.

What, exactally, was your reasoning for thinking Boxman was scum?

Good question, but for integrity reasons I'll think that question would be best redirected to

Seraphim

.

[/quote]

I would love it if Seraphim would answer that question. So far, he's shown no interest in doing so.

[Yosarian2]

Yos, if Sera is lying, why hasn't there been a Kamina counterclaim?

Well, one possible answer would be that, for balance reasons and to prevent game-breaking mass claims, the most obvious roles in a theme game are often not in the game at all and given as safe claims to the scum, especally in a theme with specific and obvious "main characters".

[Vi]

...
Fair enough on all accounts. And if I'm right about Seraphim...

Nya, let's get this over with so Chaco has less of an excuse to not scumhunt.

Unvote: Jahudo
Vote to Hammer: Seraphim

Hey, that's a hammer ^-^

[Cobalt]

Yos, if Sera is lying, why hasn't there been a Kamina counterclaim?

Well, one possible answer would be that, for balance reasons and to prevent game-breaking mass claims, the most obvious roles in a theme game are often not in the game at all and given as safe claims to the scum, especally in a theme with specific and obvious "main characters".

I considered that, but it seems clear from the flavor that FL was very enthusiastic about making this setup, so I'd find it odd if she didn't include main characters. Like, I could see a DBZ game not including Goku or something, but this looks more like a pet project than a normal theme game. Sort of a "what if" game, if you understand me.

[Yosarian2]

Yos, if Sera is lying, why hasn't there been a Kamina counterclaim?

Well, one possible answer would be that, for balance reasons and to prevent game-breaking mass claims, the most obvious roles in a theme game are often not in the game at all and given as safe claims to the scum, especally in a theme with specific and obvious "main characters".

I considered that, but it seems clear from the flavor that FL was very enthusiastic about making this setup, so I'd find it odd if she didn't include main characters. Like, I could see a DBZ game not including Goku or something, but this looks more like a pet project than a normal theme game. Sort of a "what if" game, if you understand me.

(shrug) Fair enough. I dislike trusting those kinds of outguessing-the-mod flavor arguments too far, personally, but I see where you're coming from.

[Chaco]

*points to signature*

My bad, and by the time I have time to go in depth. . .hammer is dropped.

[Vi]

Nya, let's get this over with so Chaco has less of an excuse to not scumhunt.

*points to signature*

My bad, and by the time I have time to go in depth. . .hammer is dropped.

I guess it didn't work

[Chaco]

Now let's here more from Jebus, xofelf and Cacho. They really haven't given an opinion on Sera yet.

He played a rather impulsive, and luck based tactic. It was ill advised, and while he does admit to that it doesn't justify his action of kicking reason to the curb. I though it was a dumb move, nothing really more. It's null to me. Anyways, I'm not sure about the unlynchable, I guess we'll see. It seems uncertain.

@Socio: Answer what I posed earlier?