Mini 839 -- Mafia Invasion! (Game Over)

[Vi]

lol...there are still many to convinced

wat
Please explain this post.

Cut by imaginality: That works too. Although I don't remember wiploc going as far as this.

[afatchic]

Hey guys, sorry i didn't know the game had started. I thought most games that the mod requires confirming through PM, usually follows with a PM saying the game had started. So when i still hadn't received a PM i began getting curious and went looking to find it on page 4.

On to the big scummy elephant sitting in the middle of the room
What was the problem with the survey? I agree that Vi shouldn't have gotten to go last, however that doesn't mean you shouldn't answer it. Anyone who said it was distracting to the town (from placing RANDOM votes) has made the scummiest and worst excuse i have yet to see in a mafia game. (They should make a scummy for that. I know a couple people i would nominate! )

Okay, someones first argument was that we shouldn't answer it because Vi-(As scum) has already predetermined his answers to sound good and has created the questions in a way that he can fish for PR without anyone knowing. However, there are most likely 2 more scum in this game, meaning even if he did answer those questions beautifully and escape with no suspicion, we are still likely to get valuable info on the scum buddies. And i would gladly trade a PR for a better chance at catching the scum. Seriously, we should be able to win a mountainous game just fine, so we shouldn't rely on a PR to win it for us. (I already know someone is going to twist this and vote me for saying i am fine with taking the chance of having a PR outed, oh well)

Second, Y.C.'s argument was that now everyone will just focus on the survey instead of scum hunting. And i have two questions for this...
1)Your argument is not making the survey disappear, and is only drawing more attention to the survey. So what was the point of doing that?

2) If everyone would have just answered the question in the first 12 posts, and we would have been able to draw info from it and move on, then we wouldn't be focused on the survey. So why didn't you just post and move on? You seem to be contradicting your self here IMO by saying how scummy it is to distract us and make us pay attention to this survey, as you bring it right back to the center of attention.

Needless to say, the entire time i was rereading i had every intention of voting Y.C. until i saw the recent bandwagon on him, and now i don't want to just yet. I think this will provide real good information if we wait because:
If he is scum, it may make it easier to find his buddies. Someone may make an obvious bus attempt or something.

If he is town, because then the scum are probably going to try to continue to push for his lynch instead of taking the time to think about this rationally.

Right now i am a bit torn about Y.C. after reading it all at 1 time, I'm just not sure. I used to replace into a lot of games back when i actually played on here. EVERY time i replaced into a game as town, and fully agreed on the lynch that day, they turned up town.

Now on to the new topic about Tjoe Min Ja.
Well i was going to say something about this, but now that i think about it, i may should let him speak first. however here is a little preview of what it says....
WIWABIFWMVALBETSMADPITTMBC. IRCUWPOMOBJF,LWHIDSF. STSLANTTM.
(Hope i remember what that stands for lol)

BTW, I'll be participating in the survey in a few minutes.

[afatchic]

BTW, I'll be participating in the survey in a few minutes

So i may have exaggerated this.... I'm really tired and i have to be up in a few hours for class. I should have long enough of a break in between classes tomorrow to come check on this though...

[Col.Cathart]

That big scummy elephant in the middle of the room? Well, I'll be honest: In my opinion his points are just silly. Yes, exactly - silly, not scummy. I think, he just read Porkens refusal to answer the survey, and he thought 'survey - BAD!' and decided to fight it with all his might. It reminds me of Don Kichot - he sees the Dragon (survey) and wants to fight it, but he fails to see, it's only a windmill.

To the point: I think his points doesn't make any sense, but I still don't think he's a scum. I'm even willing to assume, that his promise of re-read and analyze everything from the beginning is the effect of realization of his actions, and I wouldn't be surprised if his 'analysis' will be one big backpedaling (or he'll just go deeper and deeper, but that would be utter silliness)

I'm inclined to agree with him on one ground though... We almost stopped looking at other things. Apart from Imaginality and maybe Vi in his last post no one seems to see TMJ's active-lurking behavior. More over he seems to either miss my question , or he's deliberately ignoring me...

FoS: TMJ

[afatchic]

FoS: TMJ

Why not a vote? Why so cautious...?

[Y.C]

First of all, my apologies for

LA the next seven days, the last four (9/4-7) being N/A

. I was surprisingly informed today I would be moving to a different apartment.

I will make the analysis in the following few hours and post it here.

Noted. If you can, please try to at least keep up with the thread. Moreover, if you do not come back in full force on the 8th, I'm reserving the right to look for a replacement for you immediately.

Please refer to post 86.

[sigma]

sigma, like DeathRowKitty, doesn't have much to go on based on not having any completed games. The responses feel vaguely Town; however,

9) [Do you think this survey will be useful in finding scum?] Yes -- whether or not it's answered by scum.

I'd like to know who you find suspicious based on this, considering you random voted in the same post.

Just to clarify, I've completed one newbie game in which I was scum. I have not completed any games as a town. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Surveys like this seem to be more revealing when they're not answered. People usually go into the reasons why they're not answering, and those reasons can be very revealing.

Y.C. looks like scum.

Delibaretly admitting this either conceales a desire to get lynched, being a jester, or is rude in the extreme. So much in fact, that I will move my vote to her if she does not stop this side-tracking. I will sacrifice a townsperson on the principle that such rudeness should not go unpunished and that I do not wish to have any contact with self-declared trolls.

Huge overreaction -- saying that one is a troll and actual trollish behavior are far off from each other. Policy lynching because of minor rudeness is a worse idea than policy lynching lurkers. If you're actually advocating lynching rude people, I'm forced to come to the conclusion that you don't actually care who gets lynched.

The only other option I see is an appeal to the mod for the removal of Vi from the game. This will serve a similar purpose, but in my opinion he will not consent to this.

Digging in deeper. Asking for people to be mod-killed without a serious basis for it seems pretty anti-town to me -- doesn't mod-killing end the day immediately?

Vi, you should not be forcibly replaced.

Wishy-washy in the extreme. In your previous post, you asked for vi to be mod-killed. Why ask if you don't think vi should be replaced?

This advocating a mod-kill business and then backing off just looks terrible. A vote only brings you to L-2, so I'm going to vote you to make the point that your upcoming analysis needs to be a good one. Obviously, no one should hammer before Y.C makes his post.

Unvote

Vote: Y.C

@tjoe:

Please explain your reason(s) for voting Y.C. You're ignoring questions and lurking, and it looks suspicious.

[Tjoe Min Ja]

@Col Cathart - 58 : nothing. just try to put some presure

since Y.C. is the only persone who refused to fill out the survey....I want to make him talk more

[Col.Cathart]

FoS: TMJ

Why not a vote? Why so cautious...?

As long as we're not in RVS, I have my policy to not vote when someone didn't answer my questions (with few very scummy exceptions like Santos in newbie 803 [ironically he wasn't a scum]). If he'll answer and I won't be satisfied, then I'll vote.

EDIT after seeing TMJ's answer - If you want people to talk, then be an example and talk, when people are questioning you. That's another one liner, which gives us... Absolutely nothing. Also, I'm pretty sure he wasn't the only one who refused to fill the survey (JD, Cruciare), so it's not true either. I'm definitely not satisfied with this answer here.

So here you go, Afatchic -

vote: Tjoe Min Ja

[Porkens]

@Col Cathart - 58 : nothing. just try to put some presure

since Y.C. is the only persone who refused to fill out the survey....I want to make him talk more

afatchic hasn't answered, either (even though he posted after saying he didn't have time to post). Given, he didn't refuse outright, but it would have taken 4 seconds to fill out. I think your "attack" on YC is a little flimsy here.

While I have a deep personal attachment to blind pressure votes; yours is worrisome.

Now I'm absolutely fine with the YC train haven'ting breaks, but this wagon will warrant investigation one way or the other as the dust settles.

I wouldn't be surprised if we've stumbled onto scum with this wagon, actually. So I encourage those of you voting for TMJ to switch to YC. Yes, TMJ joined an easy wagon. However, sometimes wagons are easy for a reason.

[jammer]

@TMJ, if it was not said before, your vote was quite blantently sheeping.
It is hypocrite to vote someone else to get them participate if you do little yourself. Besides I think there are others who did less.
As you keep your vote on YC now he is being wagoned, what is the main reason you keep this vote?

Unvote: afatchic; Vote: James Denholm

[RedCoyote]

Y.C has asked for a replacement due to the unforeseen circumstances he referenced in post 80. I have already had two people show interest in replacing into the game, so the transition will take place as soon as I can make contact.

[jammer]

*I hate cops*

Porkens why are you so focused(tunneling) on YC?
You disregard other player actions and are completely focused on getting YC lynched.

[Porkens]

When I see someone cracking under pressure, I like to push a little bit harder. I'm not disregarding, necessarily, the actions of other players. I do think, however, that YC is/was the strongest lead we had and I saw no reason to get distracted from it.

[DeathRowKitty]

@jammer
You seem disinterested in the YC wagon. What do you think of YC's actions?

[Vi]

Col.Cathart said my opinion on TMJ 82, and even if he hadn't Porkens and jammer did too.

Now I'm absolutely fine with the YC train haven'ting breaks, but this wagon will warrant investigation one way or the other as the dust settles.

I wouldn't be surprised if we've stumbled onto scum with this wagon, actually. So I encourage those of you voting for TMJ to switch to YC. Yes, TMJ joined an easy wagon. However, sometimes wagons are easy for a reason.

Do you want both TMJ and Y.C lynched?
Do you want them both lynched ASAP?

jammer, why are you voting according to a set policy?

[Porkens]

Do you want both TMJ and Y.C lynched?

sure.

Do you want them both lynched ASAP?

That depends on what you mean by "P"

[Cruciare]

Oh poop, there goes that line of investigation. I'll wait and see what the replacement says about everything, until then my vote will stay on Jammer. I'm wary of his subtle defending of Y.C. and attempts to jump on a possible TMJ wagon whilst anti-tunneling on the Y.C one. Also, he asks too many questions (no really, read his posts), a mild tell of scum trying to take an offensive position.

@Col: I do agree that Y.C. was silly, but why do you think he wasn't scummy?

As for TMJ, coming from a guy who called Vi "dumb head" in his first (?) post, all I'm getting is a null read. I've seen players like him before, and in most cases (when they're not pretending), that kind of behaviour was not indicative of their alignment. Questioning them also proved largely useless because their answers didn't make any more sense than their general behaviour. 82 did raise some eyebrows however, so I'll watch for his future commentaries.

Lastly

, I especially want to hear from James again.

(Whoops, here comes a fake edit...)

Do you want both TMJ and Y.C lynched?

sure.

That's funny, I would've thought that one's alignment would affect your willingness to lynch the other?

[Cruciare]

*I hate cops*

Wait, does anyone know what he meant by this?

[DeathRowKitty]

I assume he meant people who cop out.

[Porkens]

That's funny, I would've thought that one's alignment would affect your willingness to lynch the other?

well sure, but you gatta lynch one for that to work

jammer wrote:
*I hate cops*

Wait, does anyone know what he meant by this?

no idea

[DeathRowKitty]

I wasn't going to bother correcting my last post but it's kind of bothering me...

I think by cop he meant an instance of copping out, not one who cops out. No, it doesn't matter to the game, but I'm a lunatic so I had to correct myself.

[Tjoe Min Ja]

Yes, since the survey has derailed this whole game into an obsessive discussion about it, shifting attention from anything else.
We cannot know about Vi's alignment, since evryone's attention is directed towards the aftermath of the survey.

In effect, this caused a general tormoil which is very harmful to the game in general, and the town in particular,by allowing the mafia and 3rd parties to stay relatively under the radar.

Since this effect is so extreme, I believe that such an action should be sanctioned by the most effective tool we have at our disposal: the lynch.
By lynching the survey initiator, we make a point about the validness of such actions in future games and are able to abandon this line in the present one.

The only other option I see is an appeal to the mod for the removal of Vi from the game. This will serve a similar purpose, but in my opinion he will not consent to this.

RedCoyote, if you consider this survey business enough grounds for removal from the game, please post a reply to the same effect.

I'm going to decline to take any action on the grounds that I've seen nothing that would warrant it.

P.S: Vi, if in the other game the survey was adele's, my point still stands. You did not invent this method simply to irritate others, you copied someone else's technique, a technique I find highly flawed and rude.

Also, Your alignment is no longer the issue. The only way to get out of the survey entanglement is to end it right here, either by a lynch or a stop to this line of discussion, which will not happen willingly, nor can it, under the circumstances.
Such a turn of events was predicted by Porkens in the passage I quoted.

lol.... I gotta start getting used to all this stuff.

when I answer Vi's survey I said that Vi is possibly 51% scum 49%town
but Y.C post ring alarm in my head when he try to take Vi down.

[afatchic]

TJM- If Vi is 51/49 to you right now, then why did it bother you that Y.C. tried to take Vi down. Accoriding to that, he had a 51% shot at taking down scum, and 49% shot at taking down town. What part of the taking down bothered you?

[Col.Cathart]

@Col: I do agree that Y.C. was silly, but why do you think he wasn't scummy?

Of course, little scum taste is still there, but I've seen players like that. Their point of view blinds them so much, they're not seeing how stupid are things they are typing. I see him as overreacting townie who went into argument in Vi, and it was too late to backtrack from that point, so he went deeper into this bullshit. But that's only my opinion. Which is more or less useless, as Y.C. will be replaced, and we'll never know the answer...