Open 160 Bird 7P (GAME!) - before 823

[hohum]

BTW it's perfectly okay for you to say "I have no read on XXXX"

That is a satisfactory answer. I'm not trying to force you to have an opinion. I just want to know if you do and what it is because it will help ME get a better read on YOU.

I'm specifically interested in knowing what you currently think of me, since as you pointed out you and I have interacted the most.

[hohum]

So, nothing like this here? Right?

I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here but you're not making it very easy with glaring

contradictions

in your thought processes.

yea...

I'd like you to point out for the classroom where I actually ever said I wasn't making suspect lists. I'm more than happy to, and I'm not the one who objected.

He is.

[hohum]

BloodCovenenant: quit defending your scum buddy.

[hohum]

@BloodCovenant: I also noticed you're dodging questions. You've been asked something twice, and now I'm getting sort of curious myself. See post 44, post 33. You've posted twice now without answering. It shows you're either not really paying attention or you just don't care. Either way, it's scummy as hell and you need to stop.

[Light-kun]

Vote Count:

L-1
NONE

L-2
yabbaguy - (muzzz, hohum)

L-3
BloodCovenent - (VP Baltar)
VP Baltar - (Charnel)
Charnel - (Octupis)
Nolynch - (BloodCovenent)

With seven alive, it is four to lynch.

[Charnel]

vote VP Baltar

could you explain why?

would you like it spoon fed to you?

o, this is the experienced guy. Sorry to be relatively new, sir. Now it would be nice if you didn't try to gain any superiority, and just played the game.

[muzzz]

@Yabba: see, that's why I asked if you understood the RVS. Humans don't do random. Our brains simply aren't wired for it. So every vote has a point, even if it's not readily apparent. Dismissing it because it was during the RVS is, well, not smart.

@BC: answer questions please.

[Charnel]

Wait... you seriously believe that I am pushing for a no lynch?

why only post this now? and if answers are so easy, why didn't you give them? Since this is just a single sentence, that you hope removes some pressure. It actually doesn't add a lot to the game, being a oneliner.

unvote vote muzzz

way too often talking about random-vote-theory.

and while he is mostly attacking BC(asked already multiple times for him to answer, and one attack (inconsistency) , he has still his random vote around.

[Octupis]

If the player's in your lucky spot, Octupis, why vote for them?

With any luck they will be scum

@muzzz-44: RVS, obviously. Voting for someone in the 7-spot is a, well yes, it is a pointless vote, I'd call it a joke vote.

Your right though, it was a joke vote.

I throw my vote around because it's the only tool that I have. Wagons are the only tool that the town has to effectively coordinate an attack and pressure people. People who like to pick apart quick wagons are simply wrong for doing so and they're doing the town a grave disservice.

Which of these do you find more important, throwing your vote around or aiding bandwagons?

[muzzz]

@Charnel: my vote isn't random. It never was.

[Charnel]

you found the only two reactions on your post?

and you found a new way to start a theory discussion...

would you please make a next post?

[Charnel]

the previous was at octupis

@Charnel: my vote isn't random. It never was.

ok. Then you vote yabba, because? I had the impression that it was a random vote that was kept later.

and why all the fluff about random votes?

[muzzz]

Main points against Yabba:
- Not participating in the RVS.
- Pretending people can't be scummy from the get-go.

Contrary to popular belief, you can occasionally make scum slip by engaging them in theory debates.

[yabbaguy]

Usually I would never expose such iffy suspicions so soon. I only have a few:

(green = town, red = scum)

- muzzz put a vote on me for reasons I'm still iffy over. The fact he finds a lack of a random vote "scummy as hell" when I've seen a handful of people get away with it is probably nothing more than a theory debate, though. Saying he's suspicious is nothing more than OMGUS at this point.

- VP, not sure why he withheld sound logic when exchanging with Charnel. It wasn't out of frustration. Still, that's one thing.

- You hohum, I'm well in the green at the moment. You're very actively engaged in finding scum, and that's good. What I'm not a fan of is that your scumhunting is trying to get me to do things I would not ordinarily do, like post a suspect list NOW when I would rather just be silently collecting notes.

- BloodCovenent is tipping into the red at the moment. The fact he's blatantly cross-defending ME is scummy probably in that he's trying to get a townsperson lynched. Unfortunately, that's nothing but WIFOM to you, so again, I just gotta keep watching for more cohesive reasons like the question dodging issue at hand.

- Charnel, I'll state later down.

- Octupis, nothing significant.

But you see, I've only come up with 0-2 things for each. I'm doing it right, but this is as good as it gets after 1 RL day. This is why I've been really dodgy about putting my suspect list up, because I hate it when people throw me off my strategy. I had a plan going, and you decided to not only make me do it your way, but you *babied* me through the process, as if I was hapless scum. This isn't a good idea, because you're using personal and emotional degradation as a method of investigation, and that is NOT going to make a townsperson crack any differently from scum, if they do at all.

Now instead, I've come out with admittedly dodgy evidence, per your request. Instead of my first player-by-player analysis being reasons slowly accumulated over time the way I wanted them to be, now I come up with a crap list instead. This undermines my viability.

I know exactly what I'm doing.

Confirm No Vote

@muzzz-56: Have you tried the die rolling feature before?

@Charnel-57: Sorry, but that's a crap reason to vote for someone. Yes, he's talking about random voting, but he's also tying it into the issue with me. Saying that he's not scumhunting is inaccurate.

Also his vote is serious, as far as I can tell. I don't know if it was always that way, but I think he's made it clear it's deliberate.

@muzzz-62: Why is not doing RVS a scumtell? Are scum scared of voting?

That second bullet is not an accurate summary. Of course people can act scummy from the get-go. It's just that I'm not going to immediately jump on one scumtell off the bat. I'm the sort to let the facts pile up before I declare someone definitively suspicious.

I think the popular belief is that theory debates can cause scumslips. That's what you're claiming with me, right?

One thing I'm not doing is voting and FOSing as liberally, as I did last game. I did that a lot last game, and now I'm not doing it as much. I'd say that is probably because I've been pressed on the defensive, and again, throttled from my usual course of action.

I want to ask a few questions:

-BC, why are you blatantly defending me? Post 49 is really crappy, honestly. Where do you stand on hohum? Where do you stand on me?
-Charnel, you seem detached from the game a bit. Why did you still think after all the discussion that muzzz would be random voting?
-VP Baltar, why weren't you willing to share your reasons for voting for BC? It wasn't frustration, so I'm stumped.

[muzzz]

Other people didn't have to make a random vote because there was sufficient content after a few posts.

It's a very deliberate decision to use dice instead of any other reason for your vote.

Yes, scum are often scared of voting. Especially in the RVS.

The second bullet dealt with you flipping out over Hohum's early accusations, not with your initial refusal to post a suspect list.

[yabbaguy]

Oh when they (hohum, male or female?) posted "yabb and BC are scummiest"? It just took me a bit aback to see how some people can come up with a suspect list so quickly.

Different styles of play. You thought I flipped out?

Now if I didn't want to random vote, I could've also been one of those people who waited for the discussion to start. That's easy, the discussion got rolling extremely quickly (and I'm assuming it would have as quickly even if it hadn't been me). Instead, I outright "told" everyone I was not one to random vote.

However you twist what I said, if you're going off of that for a scumtell... it ends in nothing but . That's fact.

[muzzz]

Show me where I twisted what you said.

The only WIFOM here is you saying "but I could've just waited for the discussion to start".

[Charnel]

Main points against Yabba:
- Not participating in the RVS.
- Pretending people can't be scummy from the get-go.

Contrary to popular belief, you can occasionally make scum slip by engaging them in theory debates.

point two is debated by Yabba.

and the last I disagree with you about. It is also an easy place for scum to hide in. -> possibly active lurking.

@yabba. I missed a big portion of page two, that I reread later. That gave me a bit of an odd read on the game. The reason why I still needed to know the case from Muzzz.

[yabbaguy]

@muzzz-66: Wrong word on my end. How you hypothetically interpret what I say.

What I'm saying is that you never know if the people who didn't random vote this game (whether they didn't get on fast enough or however) would actually random vote if given the chance. They could be dodgy people who wouldn't random vote either. In short what I'm saying is, are you going to peg scumpoints onto everyone who doesn't random vote? Does it make any difference that I outright stated that I didn't want to random vote?

[muzzz]

@Charnel: do I look like I need something to hide in?

@Yabba: most people make random votes. If anyone else was planning on not doing that, they can consider themselves lucky that the RVS was over in two hours.

[BloodCovenent]

@BloodCovenant: I also noticed you're dodging questions. You've been asked something twice, and now I'm getting sort of curious myself. See post 44, post 33. You've posted twice now without answering. It shows you're either not really paying attention or you just don't care. Either way, it's scummy as hell and you need to stop.

No, i was asked it once.

Muzz regarding 33 - I understood VP's vote, but with Hohum's vote, it was bandwagoning. What I wasn't comfortable with per-say, was how he started a thought, and i felt he didn't complete it. By him tunneling me, suggest that I really want a no-lynch, is scummy in itself. I do not want a no lynch, i used that as a way to get out of the RVS, for after we're through with the RVS, the real fun begins.

If you're not, then you need to say that you aren't so we can go about scum hunting. Expecting that we're all just going to assume that it was a joke vote only makes you look scummier.

This is complete bullshit. Just because I vote for this,

as my first vote,

which was

given during the random vote stage

,

indicates

, that it was a

random vote

! Would it have been better if I just voted myself like mastin? you still would have taken it the wrong way. Check my Meta, i've started off at least one other game with a vote for no-lynch.

You said you wanted to provide discussion fodder and that's what you're doing. Don't bitch about being in the spotlight. I shouldn't have to explain why deviating from the normal practice of random voting in any way is a scum tell, even if it's only a minor one.

I'm not bitching about being in the spotlight, i'm bitching about your stupidity! Have you ever played with Mastin! He always claims scum, gives his scum-partners, and self votes, is that the normal too?

You're still at the top of my list.

Unvote, Vote Yabba

Then keep your vote on me damnit!

I throw my vote around because it's the only tool that I have.

You inadvertently contradicted yourself, where did you do it? In the quote of yours above this one.

. People who like to pick apart quick wagons are simply wrong for doing so and they're doing the town a grave disservice.

Wrong, picking apart some wagons can be very helpful for the town.

BloodCovenenant: quit defending your scum buddy.

Hohum: quite tunneling.

@BloodCovenant: I also noticed you're dodging questions. You've been asked something twice, and now I'm getting sort of curious myself. See post 44, post 33. You've posted twice now without answering. It shows you're either not really paying attention or you just don't care. Either way, it's scummy as hell and you need to stop.

seriously dude? your so gay, he asked one question...

one

. I'm not dodging questions, just overlooked it. I thought it was rhetorical, and I missed his post 44. You are taking a very large leap in saying that I am not paying attention, or me not caring. I do care, i'm just also in other games that this one, you of all people should know. Like I said, i over looked it, but I have responded to it now. It is not scummy as hell, and what do I need to stop? Something that cannot be stopped? If i've missed something, please, kindly point it out, don't dramatically thrust it on me, and suddenly call me scum becuase of it. You are taking huge assumptions, and twisting them to suit your purposes.

- BloodCovenent is tipping into the red at the moment. The fact he's blatantly cross-defending ME is scummy probably in that

he's trying to get a townsperson lynched

. Unfortunately, that's nothing but WIFOM to you, so again, I just gotta keep watching for more cohesive reasons like the question dodging issue at hand.

question dodging is not a scumtell at this point in time! Maybe if i was asked

several

, not just

one

question at deadline, and I posted several times, all evading the questions could you accuse me of that, and accuse me of being scum

at that point in time,

not now.

-BC, why are you blatantly defending me? Post 49 is really crappy, honestly. Where do you stand on hohum? Where do you stand on me?

I think you're both crappy town.

[Charnel]

@Charnel: do I look like I need something to hide in?

well, it could be.

lets say you were a mason-vig, then you don't want to give too much away about the game. Since we disagree about the use of theory discussion as an aid for finding scum.

[muzzz]

@BC:
- People have to take your no-lynch vote seriously if you want it to end the RVS.
- You're not Mastin. And I bet even he had a few very rough games before his meta built up.
- Hohum's tunneling? Are you serious?
- Dodging questions is always a scumtell. You can argue that you weren't dodging, but that's it.

@Charnel: let me rephrase that question. Do you think that my play, on the whole, looks like that of someone trying to hide behind theory fluff?

[Charnel]

@Charnel: let me rephrase that question. Do you think that my play, on the whole, looks like that of someone trying to hide behind theory fluff?

that, and adding pressure on BC, without following it with your vote, while you are more serious then on Yabba.

[yabbaguy]

@BC-70: Did you see muzzz's vote? Somebody's gotta be the catalyst that gets the game going. One way you're handling this differently from Mastin, you're being a heck of a lot less cool about it. Somehow, I don't think being the shock jock is your desirable approach.

Thing is, if you always self-vote, NL vote, whatever, that means you do it scum or town. Thus, the skepticism is warranted.

You're second-highest on hohum's list apparently. I don't think that's indecisiveness. How is this a contradiction of the advice of throwing the vote around? And tunneling?????????? (?x100)

I will buy into your argument of picking apart wagons, especially the latecomers who come up with a lame excuse for hopping aboard. That should set off warning bells, red flags, etc. etc.

@All: Please don't ever use "you're so gay" (etc.) as a phrase in your posts, ever. It's truly disrespectful to the homosexual population.

I'm truly fascinated by your labelling me crappy town. You just blasted your lid instead of calmly responding to the comments. If they are as stupid as you claim they are, it's easy to intelligently shut down the comments instead of blowing your stack. I mean, look at yourself, you're compulsively using bold to get the point across, you've called stuff bullshit and called people stupid. And yet through all that, your emotion has caused you to spew comments that sometimes make no sense at all, as outlined above.

Get your head in the game. If you're not doing this seriously from start to finish, you might as well write "anti-town" on your forehead in permanent ink.

Question: Why am I crap town?

@Charnel-73: I think we're misinterpreting, I think muzzz said to BC "I still think Yabb's scummiest, but you're next." Am I reading that right?