Mini 816: Revenge of the Monkey(GAME OVER!)

[charter]

Not that you answered my question at all, but if two scum swoop in for a quickhammer, then it's going to be pretty obvious they are scum. You speak of that as if it's a bad thing, but I think it's a good trade. I'm not feigning anything. I use early bandwagons to try and catch scum and clear town all the time.

And don't pull any of this "you've been on the site blah blah" crap, since that doesn't mean anything either.

[StrangerCoug]

How did I fail to answer your question? My point was that if we're not careful, bandwagons can lead to mislynches. You seem not to care, which is a big fat scumtell.

You say that if two scum swoop in to quickhammer, then those two are obvscum. How, therefore, is Scott Brosius being run up to L-2 or L-1 for no other reason than "just because" a good thing?

[Snake]

Plus, it's absolutely pointless for it to stay there given that we have been prematurely pulled out of the RVS stage by this ridiculous bandwagoning and "just leaving it there" will ultimately be more scummy in the long run.

I think the "ridiculous" bandwagoning started with charter. You unvoted after Scott had 3 votes. I just thought it was unusual since most people seem to wait to unvote until a real discussion has started or until someone on the wagon they're on gets 4 or 5 votes. And since you random voted me, I see no reason that you needed to unvote.

No. When I voted him, I had no idea who was scum. Devastation's plea for people to unvote I found extremely scummy of him (almost enough to earn a lynch) and makes Scott look very scummy as well, even though Scott hasn't done hardly anything himself I find scummy. Devastation is trying to stop others from scumhunting by quashing this wagon. He is trying to rob us of Scott's reactions to a large wagon on himself.

You know what this says? "Devastion was scummy, so I voted for Scott." That's not helping you.

How do you say I'm scummy and trying to push a mislynch? In the post where I voted, there's nothing that says I'm trying to push a mislynch. Nowhere in any of my posts do I say or imply that. Here you have taken up the assumption Scott can't be scum, for all I know Scott is scum.

I said it looked like you were pushing a mislynch. And if you were, you wouldn't say you were. Again, you're not helping yourself.

I thought my reason was pretty self explainatory, I was just bandwagoning. Yeah, bandwagoning is very protown, best way of scumhunting in the RVS I know of. If you wagon someone fast for no reason, you get to see their reactions (and those of other people) which is great for determining their alignment. There's no way we have a jester, and if we do, fuck this game then.

What it does is cause discussion. It's not scumhunting. Not that it matters anyway, because you already implied that you think Scott was scum, so your supposed reasons for bandwagoning are likely lies.

People I'm currently suspicious of.
Scott because of how panicked Devastation got when he had four votes on him.

Again, this says, "Devastion was scummy, so I voted for Scott."

You have been on this site for three days shy of two years now. Post like those two years minus three days have taught you something and don't feign oblivion to something that's common knowledge among Mafia players.

Agreed.

Not that you answered my question at all, but if two scum swoop in for a quickhammer, then it's going to be pretty obvious they are scum. You speak of that as if it's a bad thing, but I think it's a good trade. I'm not feigning anything. I use early bandwagons to try and catch scum and clear town all the time.

Like I said before, sometimes you get townies that quick hammer. Care to link me to some games where using bandwagons to clear town and catch scum worked out? Given how many games you've played, I'll want/expect links to least 5 games since it works out so well.

[StrangerCoug]

You have been on this site for three days shy of two years now. Post like those two years minus three days have taught you something and don't feign oblivion to something that's common knowledge among Mafia players.

Agreed.

I posted the quote here, not charter.

[Snake]

I know. Sometimes when I quote and I'm responding to the same person repeatedly, I put their names for a quote that isn't theirs.

[Konowa]

Scum like to bandwagon when they can get away with it, for starters. We want to lynch someone because that person is most likely scum, not merely because we feel like it.

Difference is playstyle then. I agree with everything charter has said regarding bandwagons that form in the RVS. I too am a fan of RVS wagons. The wagon by itself is not scum-hunting, however it causes reactions, which leads to discussion, which leads to scum-hunting.

I am fairly confident charter is town at this point.

69 is horribly horribly scummy just due to the fact of jester speculation.

FOS Devestation

@Dev- How is leaving your random vote parked until you find someone you actually believe to be scum scummy?

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You know what this says? "Devastion was scummy, so I voted for Scott." That's not helping you.

Again, this says, "Devastion was scummy, so I voted for Scott."

You are totally misrepping what happened. Charter's first post was /confirm. His second post was voting Scott. It was -after- this that Devestation starting flailing around and charter started to hone in on Devestation.

unvote;

vote Snake

[Snake]

You are totally misrepping what happened. Charter's first post was /confirm. His second post was voting Scott. It was -after- this that Devestation starting flailing around and charter started to hone in on Devestation.

I'm not misrepping anything. Charter voted Scott, then in his next post said:

I don't see any reason to unvote.

Could it really be this easy?

Scott and Devestation being scum together?

That implies he thinks they can both be scum. He later said Dev because he tried to stop the Scott wagon and keep us from gaining info. That reasoning says that he thinks Dev was the scummy one, but decided to vote Scott. Even to this point, he has yet to say anything scummy Scott did.

[Konowa]

Here, have another vote!

Vote Scott Brosius

Devestation posted in between that, trying to deflate the wagon on Scott.

You cant seriously expect to pull off a bandwagon lynch in the RVS...

Unvote so we don't have any accidents

He then calls Devestation out on trying to deflate Scott's wagon, tying them together for that reason.

I don't see any reason to unvote.

Could it really be this easy? Scott and Devestation being scum together?

You neglect to take into fact Devestation's post between charter's. He voted Scott first

before

Devestation's flailing came into play. charter ties the two together after Devestation's post for that reason. So yes, you are misrepping what happened and now you are caught and trying to get yourself out of it.

[charter]

How did I fail to answer your question? My point was that if we're not careful, bandwagons can lead to mislynches. You seem not to care, which is a big fat scumtell.

Ok, this is much clearer than your other post. I will ask you too, why do you discount the possibility of a wagon on Scott ending with a scum lynch?

You say that if two scum swoop in to quickhammer, then those two are obvscum. How, therefore, is Scott Brosius being run up to L-2 or L-1 for no other reason than "just because" a good thing?

For the same reason I've been saying. You get to see how he reacts, and how others react to it and if anyone unvotes, or quickvotes. I call it scumhunting.

Snake. Please go read the order in which these events occurred. I voted Scott. Devastation then pleaded for people to unvote. I did not vote Scott because Devastation was scummy. The vote for Scott occurred before Devastation did all his scummy actions.

What it does is cause discussion. It's not scumhunting

Ok, then, you tell me how you find scum if it's not by pressuring people and analyzing reactions.

Snake, here's some games with bandwagoning.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10182
I put someone at L-2 on page two, no reason given. Everyone easily cleared the wagonee so much that they got killed night one.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11459
I put scum at L-1 on like post ten, also cleared a townie through vigorous L-1 wagoning.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10710
A few big wagons on the first few pages I believe.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9466
Tons of reactions gathered from early big wagons.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10755
Obvious that me and my scumbuddy pushed for mislynches. We would have been caught easily if it wasn't a newbie game.

I am frankly shocked that so many people think bandwagoning is scummy. I don't think I can remember a game where anyone paid it any notice.

[Snake]

He then calls Devestation out on trying to deflate Scott's wagon, tying them together for that reason.

That's what doesn't work. That would be like me saying you and charter are scum because he did something scummy and you're defending him.

You neglect to take into fact Devestation's post between charter's. He voted Scott first

before

Devestation's flailing came into play. charter ties the two together after Devestation's post for that reason. So yes, you are misrepping what happened and now you are caught and trying to get yourself out of it.

I'm not neglecting anything. The point, one way or another, is that he left his vote on Scott even after Dev tried to get people off his wagon. I'm aware of the order: Charter voted Scott in RVS and then Dev defended him. The point is that even after Dev made the post, charter kept his vote on Scott while also saying he didn't see any reason to unvote.

Ok, this is much clearer than your other post. I will ask you too, why do you discount the possibility of a wagon on Scott ending with a scum lynch?

Why should we discount the possibility of a wagon on you ending with a scum lynch?

Ok, then, you tell me how you find scum if it's not by pressuring people and analyzing reactions.

Pressure rarely works, especially if they're aware that's what it is. They're behind a computer, so they have plenty of time to think. What I try to do is question, look for inconsistencies and look for slips.

Thanks for the game links. I'll check the out soon.

[Snake]

Charter, the first three seemed fair game, but those last two links you were scum, survived, and won the game for your team. Obviously that means it doesn't always work in towns favor and you may very well be scum right now because of it. My vote will remain on you, but seeing how it seems to be able to work in towns favor more so than I thought, it will be easier to get my vote off you, should something else come up.

[Konowa]

That's what doesn't work. That would be like me saying you and charter are scum because he did something scummy and you're defending him.

So trying to deflate a random stage wagon for no reason is not scummy to you? It does work that way. Also it is logical, while wrong in this case, for you to possibly think that.

I'm not neglecting anything. The point, one way or another, is that he left his vote on Scott even after Dev tried to get people off his wagon. I'm aware of the order: Charter voted Scott in RVS and then Dev defended him. The point is that even after Dev made the post, charter kept his vote on Scott while also saying he didn't see any reason to unvote.

Why should he have to move his vote if he thought both were scum? In post 81 you even bold this while quoting charter.

You are either purposefully neglecting things, or trying to misrep what happened. Either way I think you are scum.

[Devestation]

I could almost do a real OMGUS vote there, because apparently you really DO suck

I know you did it for reactions, but I called for people to unvote because I think bandwagoning is daft the entire way, and mafia can go and search for reactions too using the same technique. Plus, without any real evidence at all, a bandwagon on anyone on the game would have yielded the same reactions.

I'm not "Panicked". Thats an overstatement.

[Devestation]

wth... there was like 60 posts between where I was up to and when I posted

[Devestation]

Devestation, post 49 wrote:
You cant seriously expect to pull off a bandwagon lynch in the RVS...

Unvote so we don't have any accidents


He then calls Devestation out on trying to deflate Scott's wagon, tying them together for that reason.

You say that as if you know that they were actually trying to lynch Scott. Why?

[Devestation]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10755
Obvious that me and my scumbuddy pushed for mislynches. We would have been caught easily if it wasn't a newbie game.

Shame on you for trying to mislead newbies as to the best course of action... now they'll be out in other games thinking NLs are okay >_>

[MonkeyMan576]

Vote Count
With 12 playing, it requires 7 to lynch

Devestation(3) - Sajin, Ryan2754, charter
Scott Brosius(2) - Charlatan, AdamNW,
Snake(2) - Ryan2754, Konowa
Charter(2) - dramonic, StrangerCoug
Regfan(1) - Snake
Dramonic(1) - Scott Brosius
Ryan2754(1) - Regfan

[dramonic]

This list is appaling. We've gotten some conversation going, why are there still so many different lynch candidate?

[Konowa]

You say that as if you know that they were actually trying to lynch Scott. Why?

I never said that they were trying to lynch Scott. I said you were trying to deflate a random wagon on Scott.

I am pretty sure Devestation is scum at this point. This is getting quite easy.

Purely theoretical, Devestation why do you think No Lynches are bad?

---

My head is really starting to hurt reading some of the posts in this game.

@dramonic - What was the point of your last post?

[dramonic]

I think it's fairly obvious.

We are out of RVS, therefore the ones who are still voting people from RVS should either unvote or explain why they won't.

[Snake]

So trying to deflate a random stage wagon for no reason is not scummy to you? It does work that way. Also it is logical, while wrong in this case, for you to possibly think that.

There's wasn't very little or too much people on the wagon, so I'm indifferent on the matter. If there wasn't many people on the wagon, I'd say he was jumpy, but if there was at least 5 on the wagon, I'd say he was being smart.

Why should he have to move his vote if he thought both were scum? In post 81 you even bold this while quoting charter.

Because he had actual reasons for thinking Dev was scum. The reasons for Scott were nonexistent. Glad to see he did a smart thing and actually changed his vote to the person who he thought was acting scummy. His suspicion on Scott relies on unknown information. How is that smart or useful?

You are either purposefully neglecting things, or trying to misrep what happened. Either way I think you are scum.

Again, I'm not misrepping anything. It's there for all to see, if they don't understand, then I guess I'm in the wrong or maybe I'm missing something, but as of now I stand firmly by it. But can you tell me what I'm neglecting and how it affects the point I've made?

This list is appaling. We've gotten some conversation going, why are there still so many different lynch candidate?

Do you have any comments on the actual conversation or what? Your vote hasn't changed from the RVS. Has it turned into a real vote? If not, who do you find suspicious?

[Konowa]

Going by your reasoning, you have not "explained" your random vote.

Are you going to confirm your random vote and step it up to a serious vote? If so, why?

[dramonic]

Mea Culpa.

My vote is staying on Charter because I consider quick-wagons to be purely scum beneficial.

[Konowa]

Simulpost ftl.

96 was addressed at dramonic

---

Snake you got to work on your quoting. Just saying.

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Will address everything else tomorrow. One too many vodka-redbulls tonight.

[Snake]

Snake you got to work on your quoting. Just saying.

Lol, damn, you're right. Sorry. I preview my posts before I post them to =/