Mini 809 ~ Mafia ViPod (Game Over!)

[VP Baltar]

Because it was implying he had a night action, which could have potentially been a power role. My questioning has shown he has a penchant for asking these types of questions, and thus that implication is no longer valid. Why do you assume that only town persons would have seen his question?

[elvis_knits]

Why would cow implying he has a night action be harmful to the town?

Only if he's town and outed himself as a power role. In which case you shouldn't be voting for him, seeing as he's town, and a power role.

If he's scum trying to set up a fake claim, I don't see how that's so harmful to town. Faking a power role is not that easy, contrary to popular belief, and there will be multiple ways to catch him if that's what he's trying to do.

Why do you assume that only town persons would have seen his question?

I'm not assuming that. What does that have to do with anything?

[VP Baltar]

Why would cow implying he has a night action be harmful to the town?

Only if he's town and outed himself as a power role. In which case you shouldn't be voting for him, seeing as he's town, and a power role.

You don't think potentially outting yourself in the first few pages of a game as a powerrole is harmful to town?

My vote was for added pressure to my questioning. It's not like he's in danger of lynch.

I'm not assuming that. What does that have to do with anything?

I think you are very much assuming it. You're acting like I'm pointing out something that was barely noticable and could be endangering hasdfgas. The question was very obvious in the sense that i think most people saw it and would have made a mental note of it.

I'm willing to admit that perhaps my questioning was a bit risky, but I think the answers that hasdfgas gave proved to be beneficial to the town. Would you disagree?

If he's scum trying to set up a fake claim, I don't see how that's so harmful to town. Faking a power role is not that easy, contrary to popular belief, and there will be multiple ways to catch him if that's what he's trying to do.

I disagree. The earlier scum build fakeclaims in games the more likely they are to look protown when they claim later. If a hypo-scum claimed a powerrole in a game and pointed out breadcrumbs from the first few pages of the game, you are telling me that you'd still be highly doubtful of the claim?

[elvis_knits]

Of course outing yourself as a power role is harmful to town, but um, the person would still be town, so it's even more harmful to town to vote/lynch them.

I realize that scum are apt to pick up on a breadcrumb, maybe even more that town. So I don't mind you pointing it out for that reason. Whether you pointed it out or not, it would still be there. But your questions do more that point out his potential breadcrumb, they force him and others to talk about it more, which increases the chance that he or someone else will give another clue to their role. It is a way of role fishing.

I think what you are trying to say is that you did NOT think there was any chance that cow was a power role, and that you thought cow was planting that in advance of a fake claim and so it was inherently scummy. You're saying no real power role would ask a question in thread because they wouldn't want to draw attention to themselves.

My question to you, VP, do you still think what cow did was scummy? Or do you think he just tends to like to nail down the rules?

[VP Baltar]

I think what you are trying to say is that you did NOT think there was any chance that cow was a power role, and that you thought cow was planting that in advance of a fake claim and so it was inherently scummy. You're saying no real power role would ask a question in thread because they wouldn't want to draw attention to themselves.

I did not actually say that there was no chance of that. I do, however, think it would be more likely as a scum move than a town move.

My question to you, VP, do you still think what cow did was scummy? Or do you think he just tends to like to nail down the rules?

I think he has effectively shown that he likes to nail down the rules. And I'll preempt you on your next question of 'why is my vote still there?'...because it will move as soon as I have a new suspect to put it on. It's not hurting anything where it is at currently, and if hasdfgas were to start gaining a wagon based solely on the points I raised you can rest assured that I would remove it immediately.

[Sotty7]

VP, if you really believe Has isn't a power role why didn't you just store this little nugget and use it against Cow if he tried to “fake claim” later in the game?

Doesn't questioning him about it right now make it lose it's power somewhat?

[VP Baltar]

Doesn't questioning him about it right now make it lose it's power somewhat?

Not in my opinion, no. It has been effectively pointed out for everyone to see. As for me saving it for later...that's not really how I play. I don't really take notes on games as I'm playing, so if it came up weeks and weeks later where hasdfgas claimed it is very likely that I would have forgotten. How does keeping it to myself help the accusation gain any "power" later, as opposed to nipping it in the bud initially?

[Sotty7]

I was thinking in terms of a hypoHas claim later in the game. If what you say is true, you wouldn't have believed the claim and you could have used this whole thing as a way of saying why.

[elvis_knits]

I think what you are trying to say is that you did NOT think there was any chance that cow was a power role, and that you thought cow was planting that in advance of a fake claim and so it was inherently scummy. You're saying no real power role would ask a question in thread because they wouldn't want to draw attention to themselves.

I did not actually say that there was no chance of that. I do, however, think it would be more likely as a scum move than a town move.

And what makes his question/breadcrumb more likely to be a scum move than a town move?

Do you view all breadcrumbs that way? If not, what was more scummy about this one?

[VP Baltar]

And what makes his question/breadcrumb more likely to be a scum move than a town move?

I don't assume anyone to be an idiot, and I wouldn't expect someone with a powerrole to be foolishly asking questions like that in the thread. I could however see scum trying to buy town points subtly.

Do you view all breadcrumbs that way? If not, what was more scummy about this one?

No. Why this one stood out to me is the same answer as to the first question. It was done in a very obvious way, which isn't something you expect from a protown person that would be highly interested in keeping themselves safe at the same time they are breadcrumbing.

[VP Baltar]

If what you say is true, you wouldn't have believed the claim and you could have used this whole thing as a way of saying why.

And what if I had forgotten the point later? That would not have been very beneficial at all, and I don't think the scenario you are describing would have added any power to my point.

[elvis_knits]

I just don't think that's the way you should act around breadcrumbs unless you have a reason to think it's fake or the person is scummy. I guess you're saying it was too obvious, and therefore looked fake?

The risk of outing roles seems worse than the potential benefit. Because the attack is so WIFOM that it's hardly damning to hascow.

(And by outing roles, I don't mean that the breadcrumb would have remained hidden or scum wouldn't see it. But by you commenting on it and forcing cow and others to comment on it, gives more information about who might be power roles and who might not be).

[VP Baltar]

I didn't

force

anyone besides hascow to talk about it. I also dropped it when he explained his thinking to me.

Explain how I forced others to talk about it? I never asked for anyone else's opinion on the matter. In fact, you're the one who continues to bring it up after I've answered your questions for nearly two pages to the point where you are asking the same questions again. Does that mean you are now trying to get people to "give more information about who might be power roles and who might not be"?

[elvis_knits]

You brought it up. You made it a topic of conversation. And I'm TRYING to figure out if it was possible that you had pro-town motivations or if you were just role fishing.

And if accusing you of rolefishing makes ME a rolefisher, then, yes I am. But I don't see any way around that.

[VP Baltar]

well, I'm just saying that you can't really act like I'm protracting this discussioin when you are in fact the one doing it. I'm pretty sure I have explained my motivations long ago. What do you need explained further that I have not given sufficient reasons for?

You may have considered it a risky move, but I think by the end of my interaction with hasdfgas the town is the one who benefited overall. I guess it's up to your gut at this point what you think my intentions were.

[X]

On the topic of slow activity, however, I would move that the scum would be going especially out of their way to lurk in this game since it would actually have an effect upon the deadline. To that end, I move that lurking not be tolerated in the slightest for this game.

To that end,

Unvote, Vote hasdgfas

Claimed he could not find the thread initially and then he implied that he has a night action.

Any game without a fixed deadline should fit under this. So I better tell you that I'm graduating tonight, and parties and sleep will take up the weekend, so

V/LA until Monday

. But I don't think there is really an implication of a night action. Plus, this speculation on night action is rolefishing, and even if Cow has a night action, it doesn't point toward him being pro-town.

image, Empking, FL, pesco, PP, thoughts? The game has begun.

[image]

I certainly believe hasd's explanation of why he asked those questions; I don't think it points one way or another to him being a power role. If you want to get really WIFOM'y, you could argue that it points towards him being vanilla, as if he were a PR, he would have asked the question privately to avoid attracting attention. (Alliteration!)

VP Baltar bringing up the question as an implication of a night action was, in my opinion, overall a good thing for the town. Scum almost certainly noticed it, and by bringing it up, VP B has given hasd an opportunity to assert that it was in no way a claim of a night action and that it should not be considered as such. If he in fact is a power role, this has given him an opportunity to cover up a possible mistake. (I mean, really. What was he going to say? "Yes, I admit it, I'm the cop-doc-mason-recruiting-vigilante!")

Elvis has seemed a bit overbearing, but not scummy.

[forbiddanlight]

image, Empking, FL, pesco, PP, thoughts? The game has begun.

I'm sorry if you aren't aware, but I work the shittiest job in the world and only get online in the mornings and evenings. Not sure what to conclude from the e_k/VP fight, but I'm kinda leaning yes, VP is rolefishing, but e_k's attacks feel off. It's hard to explain, and as such I'd probably lean more towards voting VP if I were to vote immediately. However, I don't think VP has done enough to merit a vote, and will stay voting Vi.

I'm liking image since his synopsis actually might cover what I think is up with e_k.

[Vi]

Everyone's watching to see what you will do...
Everyone's looking at you...
Everyone's wondering, will you come out tonight?
Everyone's trying to get it right...

Vote Count III:

Everybody's working for the weekend!

VP Baltar (L-4) ~ Juls, Sotty7, elvis_knits

Vi (L-5?) ~ forbiddanlight, Empking
X (L-5) ~ PaperPenguin, image
Moriarty147 (L-5) ~ Pesco47, X
hasdgfas (L-6) ~ VP Baltar
Pesco47 (L-6) ~ Moriarty147

Minimum (L-7)

Not Voting:

hasdgfas
[size=0]image 0 | e_knits 0 | Empking 1 | f-light 0 | hascow 0 | Juls 0 | Pesco 1 | Mo 0 | P-Pengy 1 | Sotty7 0 | VP Baltar 0 | X 0[/size]

Battery Power:

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(87%)

[PaperPenguin]

I would have waited until tomorrow before suggesting that hasd is actively baiting a nightkill, something useful might happen if the scum try to reach for the lowest hanging fruit.

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: VP

Role Fishing

[VP Baltar]

I would have waited until tomorrow before suggesting that hasd is actively baiting a nightkill, something useful might happen if the scum try to reach for the lowest hanging fruit.

Explain.

[Empking]

[size=0]image 0 | e_knits 0 | Empking 1 | f-light 0 | hascow 0 | Juls 0 | Pesco 1 | Mo 0 | P-Pengy 1 | Sotty7 0 | VP Baltar 0 | X 0[/size]

What's that?

Prod timers, internal use only, move along, nothing to see. ~Vi

[Pesco47]

I would have waited until tomorrow before suggesting that hasd is actively baiting a nightkill, something useful might happen if the scum try to reach for the lowest hanging fruit.

Explain.

Second this.

To that end,

Unvote, Vote hasdgfas

Claimed he could not find the thread initially and then he implied that he has a night action.

Sure it's rather crappy for a serious vote reason, but look where it's come to now. You're still voting cow for lack of a better target, I expect you should find one pretty soon.

And how does that imply I have a night action? Seriously, it's clarifying the rules.

So you were just worried about somebody who may potentially have a night action and were just trying to be helpful?

This is a strawman misrep, right?

No one said that he should be lynched for it. I think it did deserve clarification, however because I don't assume anyone to be an idiot, and I wouldn't expect someone with a powerrole to be foolishly asking questions like that in the thread. I could however see scum trying to buy town points subtly.

I believe votes have always been indicative of lynching intent. When you said this, you did want cow to hang because that's what your actions had shown.

On the other hand, e_K's questions all feel like loaded ones that goad VPB into particular responses.

Unvote
Vote VPB
FoS e_k

[VP Baltar]

Sure it's rather crappy for a serious vote reason, but look where it's come to now. You're still voting cow for lack of a better target, I expect you should find one pretty soon.

Well considering there wasn't much else to comment on and people were only talking about me, it's a bit tough to find a target.

HOWEVER

I believe votes have always been indicative of lynching intent. When you said this, you did want cow to hang because that's what your actions had shown.

On the other hand, e_K's questions all feel like loaded ones that goad VPB into particular responses.

Unvote
Vote VPB
FoS e_k

First of all, you are utterly wrong that every vote shows lynching intent. But that is apprantly how you feel your votes should be weighed. So, we look at your vote. You want me dead and think I'm scum. Here is the important part: You simultaneously FoS EK, meaning you must think she is scum as well and would like her dead after I'm gone. This is all based on your premise that votes show lynching intent (and by extension somewhat, FoS's).

I find it a bit ridiculous that you think both EK and I could be scum. What I think is more likely is that you sensed the slight anti-EK sentiment building given her questioning and wanted to get your two sense in their early.

Unvote, Vote Pesco47

Add to that your attempt to get me to move my vote. I said on page three that I would move it when I found someone scummy and before the end of page 4 you're acting like I'm keeping it there because I can't build a case on anyone. You're really reaching for reasons to pad out your vote and make it look legit it seems to me.

Also, I hope people note how fast the wagon on me built. L-2 on page 4. I would almost guarantee there are one or two scum in there somewhere.