Mafia 96 - Murder in Emerald City (Game Over!)

[Kise]

Post 48 has a lot of grammatical errors... I defo need rest.. g'night once again.

[fallen angel]

Well, here are my thoughts so far- Mastin is being, well, Mastin. I'd be more worried if he acted sane. Roflcopter seems a bit scummy to me for tunneling Mastin with no real reason. Kise's voting Johnny seems really weird to me. Why him, out of all the other people who haven't posted? Out of the 21 still alive, haven't only about 7 or so posted?

Unvote, Vote Kise

.

[roflcopter]

fallen angel is scum with mastin. you heard it here first.

[Kublai Khan]

At least Eight games.
Most of the ones where I've acted this way are ongoing, though. Ask...hmm...

Asking players to confirm your behavior in on-going games? Really, Mastin? You know better than that.

Anyways, I acknowledge that you are shifting your playstyle. No problem. I've done it from time to time. It's healthy. Prevents meta-gaming.

Oh, and replacing in on the second page is practically the same as being in the game from the beginning. But if you want to split hairs about it, then fine.

And don't worry, Khan. I won't kill ya.

Uh.. Are you claiming a killing role?

Khan's Miller claim doesn't move me. I'd still vote for him if he acts scummy because I was in a game not long ago where the [Death] Miller was of neutral alignment and would have won the game before the town if all of the mafia were eradicated. So, Millers are still suspects IMO.

Yeah, that's pretty much all there is to it. I could be a miller or I could be a member of the mafia. Either way I show up as guilty. So my claim was just to give investigators a heads up. Everyone who isn't an investigator should just continue judging me based on my actions.

I'm also headed to bed. Be kind and trim your walls-o-text down a bit Mastin. Nobody likes having to deal with replacements.

[Hayker]

I logged on. You need not know more.

Yes, that would be Xyl's confusion-->Scumtell, correct?

Hopefully not your last.

Where else have you played?

Do tell.

I want to see how experienced you are.

Again, from what I've heard, rofl tunnels a lot. I'll look into it to see if this is true, but I do see how many players can/will tunnel and wouldn't call it a tell of any kind.

Which I defend against, like any good player should, mind you.

Like I said...replacing into a game isn't the same as playing from the start.

It works differently.
It has different rules.

I learned the scumtell from epic mafia. Can't remember from who though. I just remember is being used against me.

Anyways my mafia expierience.....
I started playing mafia on a forum called FEABL(Fire Emblem Arena Battle League) I have played games 8-14 on that site. It's a very different style as we all know each other fairly well there. Thus we leave clues upon every kill that points toward who the murderer was that night. One of these rounds(12) actually was a clueless game, which had very different results than expected. The mafia was obliderated. Mind you, the det revealed himself and was protected by the bg for half the game.

On casual collective I started a mafia game there. We've played several rounds, but a few have falllen apart and mafia isn't played at a very high level. Though there are a few exceptionally good players.

I've played a whole lot on epic mafia, though I play less now.

Here I've replaced into game newbie game700 when it had about 40 pages. I didn't realize it was 30 posts per page at the time(I thought it was 10) and was very overwhelmed by how much I had to read. Unfortunetly that game was a loss due to a very well played mafia member(Lizcc I think). Due to expecting(foolishly) I would be taken off the newbie queue, I was put into game 749 as a cop. I tried to participate, but was overloaded with mafia and life and had to replace out. Then I joined newbie game 759. This game was also a loss. I would try to credit myself that it wasn't my fault because I was night killed, but I didn't expect the mafia.


I'm not sure if I like the tunnel style of rofl, but it's a little early for me to be jumping to conclusions just yet. Hopefully time makes things more clear.

[roflcopter]

I find roflcopters constant strait up blaming Mastin being scum kinda scummy. Though I have to admit, I believe he brings up a few valid points.

explain how i am "blaming" mastin. if you mean the fact that i am accusing him, please expound on why this is scummy. i would also like to point out that saying my attack on mastin is scummy and then calling my points valid is an example of trying to have your cake and eat it too.

Obviously, I'm quite familiar with your style by now, so I know what to expect. And besides that, it generally would not be a good idea for scum to put so many eyes on them during the start of a game, because if they got lynched on D1 and flipped mafia, they'd be jackasses for real..

fact: mastin has developed a meta for some kind of random phase jackassery involving rapid fire monster posts. you evidently are aware of this.
fact (being assumed by you here): garnering a large amount of attention early on is counter to the goal of a player who is scum
in which of these situations will mastin draw more NEGATIVE attention - when he plays to his self-made meta, or when he is quiet and out of the limelight in the early game?
therefore, is it really safe to say the fact that he is playing to his meta of inane psychobabble makes him more likely to be town? the answer is no. mastin has built himself a meta prison wherein he must act this way no matter his alignment, therefore him acting this way tells us nothing about it. it is the actual content of what he is saying which is important, not simply the fact that he's saying so much of it as usual.

and in this case the content indicates he is scum. please proceed with helping me lynch him.

[fallen angel]

fallen angel is scum with mastin. you heard it here first.

Why? Reasons are nice, unless you just wanna tunnel-vision the whole game and hope you get lucky.

[Mastin]

@Hayker - The randomness never dies down until Mastin finds an opponent

Nah. It's already died down a bit.

and it just very well may be roflcopter.

I'll defend myself from rofl's accusations, but I currently think he's just tunneling town. (Will do that Meta read later to confirm that he tunnels like this as town.)

I can sense a bit of stubborn-tunneler looming.

Yea...I like tunneling as well. Do it far less often nowadays, but I still like it.

I honestly am not sure if you're town this time around, Mastin.

Well...people never are. They're normally proven wrong when they think me to be scum, though.

I noticed you don't get a mafia role a whole lot

Fortunately. I hate being mafia--it makes me feel like a burden to my team.

because the mods are smart (:p)

Yea. I need to make that an Insane Tell of some kind to include that.
"If Mastin plays in a game, he isn't mafia."

knowing you always brings attention to yourself

I love the pressure. It's a thrill, a challenge, to me. What would be the point in playing if everyone thought you were town?
Not much; it's quite boring, really.

and always end up in the hot seat.

While I do enjoy people calling me town (they're almost always right. ), again, there'd be absolutely no fun in playing if everyone did. So, best way to get people calling you scum and to actually have fun, act suspicious to get into the hot seat.
Works almost every time.
(...Unfortunately, occasionally, it works just a tad bit *too* well. )

My view on you leans more towards NOT being scum

Why, thank you. I take that as a compliment, considering what most say about me.

simply because of the attention you drew

If that's your only reasoning, you should be warned that it's a null tell from me. Not a town tell.

but I'm always watching and waiting for those scumslips.

Again, this seems like fence sitting.

I am using meta right now

Good. Metagaming-->Awesome. Metagaming Me won't work if you want to call me scum for differences in attitude, and only slightly works in finding consistencies, but still, it's a good practice. (Just not one which works very well on me.)

because in the game you were scum

Two games, actually. Polygamist and Lynch all Lurkers.
688 doesn't count; I was a newbie, back then.

your posts were very distanced and not as rapid as whenever you're town.

Eh, again, I frown upon people using my play as scum as evidence, because, quite frankly, it doesn't work well.

Khan's Miller claim doesn't move me.

While I do agree that it is the time for a Miller to claim, I do hold slight suspicions over it being a possible mafia tactic as well. I have my reasons for thinking this, but would rather not reveal the details other than what I've already said about it. It doesn't warrant a vote alone, though.

I'd still vote for him if he acts scummy

Yea, that's generally my plan. He's someone to keep an eye on. I'll be looking very carefully at his town meta, review his scum meta, and play this entire game for...well, the duration of this game. If he ends up being scummy, my random vote which I took off will become a serious vote.

because I was in a game not long ago where the [Death] Miller was of neutral alignment and would have won the game before the town if all of the mafia were eradicated.

I don't comprehend this sentence.

So, Millers are still suspects IMO.

Again, I agree. They're the claim to at least keep an eye on. (Quite personally [although this opinion is influenced heavily by epicmafia], I believe in not letting Millers know they are millers in semi-open setups.) It's the perfect scum claim, which is why I will be keeping an eye on Khan.

I can already tell roflcopter is an aggressive player

Yea. I like players like rofl. I'm aggressive as well, most of the time.

and a very serious one at that

Yea. Generally, I'm serious once we get out of the RVS, aside from the occasional joke.

despite his name.

Yea, I suppose that is a bit ironic.

where the aggressor doesn't seem to be open-minded enough to accept the possibility of someone's actions such as yours (Mastin) to be that of a pro-town player.

Eh, it happens.

Obviously, I'm quite familiar with your style by now

Most of it. It still changes from time to time.

so I know what to expect.

Fortunately. Most do not, though, which is why I like my style so much.

And besides that, it generally would not be a good idea for scum to put so many eyes on them during the start of a game

Again, I'm afraid I must insist this is a null tell, because if I did it as town and not as scum, soon enough, people would notice this and then call me scum whenever I don't do it.

because if they got lynched on D1 and flipped mafia

If anyone gets lynched Day One, it sucks for that person, at least. No matter their alignment, they'll likely feel like they failed their team.

they'd be jackasses for real..

Again, I believe this applies to most players, actually.

Not much to say about fallenangel

...Seriously nothing?

since he's still in a RVS of his own

Isn't that by itself worth commenting on?

What can you make of it?

I think you're a blue digimon

:/

is what I think.

No, seriously. Expressing opinions that are game related-->Pro-town.

But more seriously

That's more like it!

I think you'll bump heads with roflcopter for a bit

Probably.

and that will continue to be the focal point of D1.

Focal point? Probably not. A major debate point? Yea, almost certainly.

You two should ignore doing anything OMGUS

I do not believe in OMGUS'ing at any other point than the RVS.

because, in the event both of you are town,

This is actually what I am currently thinking, actually.

the mafia will just pick a side

Actually, if they're good mafia players, they will be divided and individual players will take one side, while others on their team will take the other, and perhaps even more taking both.

and play the parts of your supporters

Yea, again, see above. Depends on the members of the mafia, really. Some mafia members might take the lead if I drop the case, for example. (To not do so might be scummy, due to them backtracking. Depends on the arguments, really.)

How can you say I'm fencesitting when I already made a vote?

Because you seem to show a readiness to change to either rofl or me at any moment.

Oh boy...

Yes, boy.

I think I just gave Mastin more ammo for his next posts, lol.

Dead-on.

I bet it'll be a thick read.

Yea...the scroll on the Quick Reply box already looks fairly small. Not that bad, though. I've had worse. It looks to only make up roughly one sixth of the scroll bar. I've had them be so small it's hard to even tell how small a fraction of the post I'm writing.

OK, it's nearly 2:30 in the morning

Midnight, here.

so I'm logging off.

You can blame me if you wake up to the Apocalypse.

I'll come back to play tomorrow.

With luck, yea.

Night.

See ya.

Try not to make 14 pages when I wake up.

Aww...that's no fun!

Oh, fine. I'll hold back--only thirteen.

[Hayker]

I find roflcopters constant strait up blaming Mastin being scum kinda scummy. Though I have to admit, I believe he brings up a few valid points.

explain how i am "blaming" mastin. if you mean the fact that i am accusing him, please expound on why this is scummy. i would also like to point out that saying my attack on mastin is scummy and then calling my points valid is an example of trying to have your cake and eat it too.

Blaming does indeed mean accusing n this case. In fact I hardly see a differance between the two words. I'll admit it's there, but it's subtle. I'm saying your attack on Mastin is scummy because it started on the first post of the second stage. The RVS didn't even seem over at that point, yet you just claimed it was.

To be honest I don't fully comprehend your cake and eating comment, but I do like cake so I will eat some(insert the eating of cake here)
But really, You did have a few valid points, and I think at least, it would be foolish to not acknowledge that.

It's only a little after midnight here, but I have to record in the morning so i'm off to bed unless there is a post I find interesting after I'm done posting this.

[roflcopter]

let me quickly quash the idea that this:

It's the perfect scum claim, which is why I will be keeping an eye on Khan.

is true, with regards to the miller claim, especially in this game.

claiming miller as scum on day one is a gambit that may work on occasion, but more often backfires horribly. yes you preemptively explain any guilty votes on you, and yes you may even get people thinking you are cleared town for making the right move as a miller, but these two facts alone will not by a long shot win the game for your team, because once you have claimed miller the following things become true:
1) you are locked into that claim. as scum, this means you will not have the option of doing any of the following things: counterclaiming a power role in lylo, fakeclaiming an investigative/protective role with a false guilty/protect, adapting to a changing game environment such as discovering that the setup may be all vanilla, etc. there are many ways for you to find yourself in a situation several game days later where you are simply fucked because you locked yourself out of the right strategic move as scum.
2) no matter how your claim plays out, there is just no freaking way you're living to endgame. one of two things will happen - a vigilante will either not believe you or have no better idea who to shoot and will take the safest vigilante shot in the history of the game of mafia, the claimed miller, or an opposing scumteam/sk will come to the point where they need to start killing semi-cleared players because cleared players are the scum's SINGLE WORST NIGHTMARE and they will end up killing you.

therefore we are never, ever lynching kublai khan, and it doesn't even matter if i'm right and he's in fact town or i'm wrong and he's fakeclaiming scum because the problem will work itself out long before the endgame. continuing to waste time discussing whether or not you believe khan's claim, or especially considering him as a lynch candidate, will be viewed as scummy with extreme prejudice.

[Johnny Rotten]

A vote on me for my short post earlier? My goodness that is weak sauce dude.

Glad I am not alone in this being my first Large Game. Combine that with Mastin apparently being a mind-fuck specialist, I really didn't have too much to say at the time.

Not too sure what to make of Mastin yet, as this is my first game with him. I am nowhere near ready to vote at this point. Too many people haven't even been online yet.

I do find it quite interesting that some people feel the need to vote at this stage of the game. Scumtell? Possibly.

[Hayker]

I don't believe voting at this stage is a scum tell John. Especially because this is a hard game with the current majority being 12. Votes are fairly safe to use with not too much consequence(usually) at this point.

[roflcopter]

hayker: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Have_your_ ... eat_it_too

[Hayker]

Thank you for that rofl. With that now known, I still stick by was I said in post 58

[Mastin]

Post 48 has a lot of grammatical errors...

I noticed.

Well, here are my thoughts so far

Nice to hear, Fallen.

Mastin is being, well, Mastin.

Dang, I wish I could fit a hundred quotes in my sig--they'd be quotes like this.

I'd be more worried if he acted sane.

That's me, alright. Mastin, the insane guy.

Roflcopter seems a bit scummy to me for tunneling Mastin with no real reason

Again, I think it's likely a stylistic thing.

Kise's voting Johnny seems really weird to me.

He did explain it, though. I don't think it's the best vote from him, but I don't see anything scummy in it.

Why him, out of all the other people who haven't posted?

Actually, Johnny had posted at the time, FA.

Out of the 21 still alive, haven't only about 7 or so posted?

Yea. Johnny amongst them.

fallen angel is scum with mastin.

This does, of course, rely on the assumption that I am scum, which is, of course, a false statement. Who else are you going to tunnel on, Rofl?

you heard it here first.

And aside from you, I doubt you'll hear it again.

Asking players to confirm your behavior in on-going games?

Dead in all of them. :/

Anyways, I acknowledge that you are shifting your playstyle.

Intentionally, I might add. I hate having every player on MS.net know my style. It loses its power if that happens.

I've done it from time to time.

I've done it several times.

Prevents meta-gaming.

Eh, I have no problem with people metagaming me in defense. I do, however, have a strong distaste for when they use it as an attack against me.

Oh, and replacing in on the second page

...Is replacing in after gameplay has already started. In 762, I replaced in, but because I replaced in before the game began, I might as well have been playing from the start, for example.

is practically the same as being in the game from the beginning.

Not in my opinion.
And as I am the guy who controls my own actions...
My opinion makes the call on things like that.

But if you want to split hairs about it, then fine.

*splits hairs*.

Uh.. Are you claiming a killing role?

I asked basically the same thing. It's vital for Kise to answer the question. Ask rofl on the subject of:
Softclaims.
Or take a look at Lynch all Lurkers.

I could be a miller or I could be a member of the mafia.

This might be just a stylistic thing, but I find this kinda suspicious--if I were a miller, I'd be speaking with certainty, saying that I *am* a miller, yet

in theory

could be a member of the mafia, but aren't.

Be kind and trim your walls-o-text down a bit Mastin.

Aww, but they're so much fuuuuuun...

Nobody likes having to deal with replacements.

Is that a threat?

I learned the scumtell from epic mafia.

Hmm, odd, I play epicmafia, yet I don't recognize either your avatar or your name.

Nor have I seen that scumtell used on EM.

What setups are you playing there? <_<

I started playing mafia on a forum called FEABL(Fire Emblem Arena Battle League) I have played games 8-14 on that site.

Links to games you've been in work wonders.

On casual collective I started a mafia game there. We've played several rounds, but a few have falllen apart and mafia isn't played at a very high level. Though there are a few exceptionally good players.

Again, links to games work wonders for metagaming purposes.

I've played a whole lot on epic mafia, though I play less now.

Odd, since your general playstyle didn't seem to be that of a normal epic mafia player. When you mentioned other sites, I instantly thought of EM, sure, but your playstyle doesn't seem very EM-ish.

explain how i am "blaming" mastin.

You're voting me and accusing me of being scum. I'd call that a possible form of blaming.

if you mean the fact that i am accusing him, please expound on why this is scummy.

Tunneling so early in the game is anti-town. I wouldn't say it's scummy, but there's no denying it isn't pro-town to do.

i would also like to point out that saying my attack on mastin is scummy and then calling my points valid is an example of trying to have your cake and eat it too.

Or in simpler less metaphorical terms, an inconsistency. I don't agree, though--you can see an attack as having valid points, yet still think of it as being scummy.

fact: mastin has developed a meta for some kind of random phase

jackassery

I need to look up that word and confirm its definition (for my current definition of that word definitely doesn't fit the accusation you're making). You're the second player to accuse me of that.

involving rapid fire monster posts.

This is true; I make rapid-fire monster posts in most of my more recent games.

you evidently are aware of this.

Yea. He's seen it twice.

fact (being assumed by you here): garnering a large amount of attention early on is counter to the goal of a player who is scum

I think you mislabeled that; I'd leave out the "fact" part and leave it as "your assumption:".

And, again, as I explained, it's a null tell for me.

in which of these situations will mastin draw more NEGATIVE attention - when he plays to his self-made meta, or when he is quiet and out of the limelight in the early game?

Definitely the latter. It's happened in games. (I had lots of fun in said games until it went too far.)

therefore, is it really safe to say the fact that he is playing to his meta of inane psychobabble makes him more likely to be town? the answer is no.

I agree with rofl. It's a null tell. Not a town tell.

mastin has built himself a meta prison wherein he must act this way no matter his alignment,

Nah, I've broken it from time to time when playing with players who know me--they'll find it more suspicious and I can play under more pressure than normal.
But, most of the time, yea, I will play this way.

it is the actual content of what he is saying which is important

Not really. I say the same RVS stuff in every game. One player even perfectly predicted what my next post would be in one instance.

and in this case the content indicates he is scum.

If you say so.

---

Have to leave, right now; be back soon, if I can.

[roflcopter]

I asked basically the same thing. It's vital for Kise to answer the question. Ask rofl on the subject of:
Softclaims.
Or take a look at Lynch all Lurkers.

woah there. do not try to involve me in your rolefishing.

softlclaims brought on by pressure = scummy = need a fullclaim

possible breadcrumb = SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN MENTIONED SPECIFICALLY = DO NOT FULLCLAIM OR CONFIRM OR DENY A KILLING ROLE OR ANY OTHER KIND OF ROLE SERIOUSLY DON'T DO IT

mastin's attempt to 1) pull a fullclaim out and 2) attach my name to drawing out said fullclaim is scummy in the extreme

[roflcopter]

Tunneling so early in the game is anti-town. I wouldn't say it's scummy, but there's no denying it isn't pro-town to do.

earlier in this very post you made reference to lynch all lurkers mafia, and appealed to me as an authority, in making a (ill-conceived) point. but now your memory seems to very selective, as you are failing to take into account the same game, lynch all lurkers, where i did the exact same thing, as town, to zwetschenwasser, who flipped scum, starting on page 2.

so yes, i do in fact deny that it is not pro-town, and counter with the above evidence. check.

[roflcopter]

lynch all lurkers even includes a spot on scumpartner call without explaining my reasons, which you should also have been intimately aware of since you were reading the game as a replacement onto the scumteam. so that just makes you attempting to brush off a similar statement from me regarding a mastin-fallen angel pairing seem even more hollow.

[Empking's Alt]

Vote: Mastin

For unvoting her ranom vote.

[iamausername]

-=Vote Count #1=-

Mastin (3) - Kublai Khan, roflcopter, Empking's Alt
Johnny Rotten (1) - Kise
Kise (1) - fallen angel

Not Voting (16) - Achilles, BloodCovenent, cateraction, ckool5000, dvdkid13, Faraday, Hayker, Johnny Rotten, MafiaMann, Mastin, Mufasa, ZazieR, Namttam, Redith, reveillark, Wickedestjr

11 to lynch.

[Johnny Rotten]

You know, I am just going to be 100% honest with how I feel right now....

I don't know if Mastin is scum or not. What I do know is, his style of play last night was un-constructive (to say the least) and downright distracting.

That being said, it may be in the best interest of the town to vote Mastin out, whether he be scum OR town. If he flips scum, we score. If he flips town, then we lose a townie, but we also lose a HUGE distraction.

I will reserve my vote for the moment, to see how others feel about my opinion.

(why do I have the feeling I am about to be shit upon?)

[Achilles]

I am a bit surprised by how frequent and how long Mastin's posts are, but if he has a habit of doing this early in games, then I'm not sure what to make of it. It is distracting in a way, but at the same time, it generates conversation, and the more talk there is, the more likely chance there is for scum to slip up.

[ZazieR]

I am a bit surprised by how frequent and how long Mastin's posts are, but if he has a habit of doing this early in games, then I'm not sure what to make of it. It is distracting in a way, but at the same time, it generates conversation, and the more talk there is, the more likely chance there is for scum to slip up.

He does it all the time At least, he has done so in my games with him.

[ZazieR]

Emerald City First Post

FoS:

Seryna

Kise,

Nadroj15

ZazieR

,

For being the last to confirm. It's a scum tell. (Sure, they replaced the last two to confirm, but still...that doesn't mean the tell doesn't apply.)

Well, in this case it doesn't apply You obv knew that and are now trying to get me lynched. Reasons for that can be found below XD

-=All Role PMs have gone out. It is now Night 0. Deadline for night actions will be set once at least 75% of confirmations are in.=-

I'm a member of Mafia A, along with...hmm...let's say...Roflcopter, Mufasa, MafiaMann, and...hmmm...Ah, yes. Kublai Khan.
Fallen Angel is also a neutral mafia traitor, who we failed to recruit last night for reasons we shalln't reveal.

Zazie is a Mafia B traitor, who can be recruited by the Mafia B faction. We want Zaz dead as soon as possible because of that.
And Kise...oh, right, did I mention Khan's a rolecop and we have daytalking abilities? Yea, we do, and Khan has revealed to us that Kise is a Mafia B godfather. Yay!

Obv a lie as Rofl would never betray me , right Rofl?
Mastin is planning to use circular logic here when I get lynched and turn up as Mafia A traitor in order to keep himself and the rest of our team safe

Discuss that

[Wickedestjr]

Khan's Miller claim doesn't move me. I'd still vote for him if he acts scummy because I was in a game not long ago where the [Death] Miller was of neutral alignment and would have won the game before the town if all of the mafia were eradicated. So, Millers are still suspects IMO.

Do you actually think that Khan would have roleclaimed if this were the case? Maybe, but I kinda doubt it. I am willing to believe Khan for now, unless he does something scummy. Although I believe his claim, I would hesitate to vote him for doing something scummy just because he RC'd miller. I am going to pretend he is just an ordinary player, to make it fair for everybody.


@Mastin - I am sorry, but your posts are getting too long and none of which actually include content that is helping this conversation. I think that some of your posts are just distracting.

If I did not think that anybody else was scummy and we had a deadline that was near, then I'd vote Mastin, because he is not helping us at all, and I think it would be really hard to tell whether he was mafia or town. Mastin I would like to see more contribution from you.


@Mastin again - Which of these three people do you find the scummiest?

FallenAngel
Kise
Hayker


I am a bit suspicious of roflcopter because his vote for mastin doesn't really seem to have a good reason. He is also trying to convince us that Fallen is mafia without giving reasons. I don't know if this is his normal playstyle or what, but if I didn't have any other games to base his playstyle on, then I'd vote him. I would like to hear from others whether roflcopter is acting normal or not.