Mini 793: Scrubs mafia- GAME OVER

[BrianMcQueso]

Your analysis is also at odds with hp's own defense.

I am aware of this. I am not defending HP; I am saying that there is no 4 person scum team. HP is free to defend himself however he likes. Let me explain my position, with no analogies:

A) If you believe that HP's statement is a mistake by the mafia that reveals he is on a mafia team of 4 players, then that means you accept the idea of a 4 person scum team, which I would argue is wrong. I'm not saying that HP is innocent, I'm just saying the "tell" you're hammering on has no merit.

B) If you

don't

believe there is a 4 person scum team, and you're

still

trying to force a "scum slip" out of that idea, then your logic is flawed and you are acting scummily.

[Fishythefish]

Fair enough.

I accepted the idea of a 4 person scum team as possible, but as other players seem convinced in no uncertain terms that it is extremely unlikely, I've largely changed my mind (I have no personal experience to draw on in this matter). It remains odd that hp named a 4 player scumteam, but this is unlikely to be because he is on such a team.

unvote

[veerus]

A 4 scum team is possible but unlikely. I'd sooner believe 3 scum and sk which seems to be a popular set up around here.. my original comment/vote were pretty flimsy as befits a random vote this early in the game however the discussion which ensued may be interesting to analyze once a couple days go by... fishy/furry sure seem to have latched on to that a little too much

But the person that interests me is inHimshallibe. We're in the middle of our first non-random discussion and he interjects just to switch from one bandwagon to another without contributing anything to the ongoing argument. That stinks of scum trying to seem active without posting any content.

unvote; vote: inHimshallibe

[Brandi]

Anyway I don't know what to think of HP. That little 'slip up' isn't enough for a lynch, but should be kept in mind as we progress.

I do NOT like this.

Unvote, Vote: Brandi

whats wrong with what I said? Maybe I don't like the letter G in your name. I should vote you for that.

You're basically saying, straight up, that while you won't push any case against hp now, you're reserving something to use against him later. A perfect example of which is a scum needing a way to jump onto a wagon later in the game and pulling something from page 2. If you think he's scummy, there's certainly nothing better page 2 on which to base a vote, so vote him! Otherwise, let it go.

Well I just don't think its a good idea to lynch someone over one little thing, if they do more scummy things later on, that might be grounds to lynch them. But it seems like that it wasn't even a slip since everyone is saying a 4 scum group is almost impossible. So its probably not worth bringing up again anyway unless we somehow find out that there are 4 scum.

[Brandi]

At Brandi: I'll admit it wasn't the strongest, but explain to me why my reasoning was "crappy."

unvote
vote: Fishy

I like this wagon better than Brandi's.

Because, you act like there is something wrong with moving from a random vote to a more serious one, and implied that his vote wasn't even random when he said that it was. He didn't even give a reason for voting me originally, so there was nothing to "back down" from.

[Gorrad]

Unvote

.

I'll hold you to this. If you bring it up and no evidence of a four-person scumteam exists, I will personally make sure you're the next lynch.

[inHimshallibe]

For the record, inHim is an easy way to shorten my name.

At Brandi: I'll admit it wasn't the strongest, but explain to me why my reasoning was "crappy."

unvote
vote: Fishy

I like this wagon better than Brandi's.

Because, you act like there is something wrong with moving from a random vote to a more serious one, and implied that his vote wasn't even random when he said that it was. He didn't even give a reason for voting me originally, so there was nothing to "back down" from.

I see what you're saying. What I was saying was that Furry seemed to be extra-verbose in relating, "Oh, that was random." If he had said that, I'd have had no problem at all. Scum overexplain a lot of the time, and it was an initial type of gut read.

veerus: It's Day 1, meh. I'm not going to add much if there's nothing to be added. That's just more garbage to wade through on a reread, and doesn't help anyone, as far as I'm concerned. I'll do my little thing on the bandwagon.

Fishy seems to have cooled it on his front. Too bad he still has the most votes (I think.) Someone needs to climb aboard!

[Furry]

I see what you're saying. What I was saying was that Furry seemed to be extra-verbose in relating, "Oh, that was random." If he had said that, I'd have had no problem at all. Scum overexplain a lot of the time, and it was an initial type of gut read.

Unless im drinking, short on time or have a very specific thing I want to accomplish, im usually on the wordy end of things.

@Fishy - What are your thoughts on Brandi?

@mod

I expect at most one post between now and friday, I should be able to get consistant access starting this weekend.

[Fishythefish]

On Brandi:

Labelling me “probably town” in post 23 doesn’t quite ring true- I don’t think my first two posts look exceptionally pro-town, and this is possible buddying. Post 36- “Not enough for a lynch, but should be kept in mind”- this is a normal way for the scum to have an argument to come back to. Of course, it’s also true for everything in the game which isn’t lynchworthy. I’d like to know why she didn’t vote for hp at this point.

Fishy seems to have cooled it on his front. Too bad he still has the most votes (I think.) Someone needs to climb aboard!

“Too bad” for who? What does the “I think” refer to? Why should anyone climb aboard?

I find it suspect that you are trying to gain more votes for a wagon which already has 4, this early in the game, without explaining your own vote, and with no (imo) compelling argument against me.

vote: inHim

[inHimshallibe]

“Too bad” for who?

You're the one being run up.

What does the “I think” refer to?

I wasn't sure if you had the standalone most votes. But I checked, and you do.

Why should anyone climb aboard?

Wagons get things done. Much more so than non-productive voting.

and with no (imo) compelling argument against me.

The compelling argument is that you had 3 votes on you when I was looking for somewhere else to place a vote, and since I didn't think you were town in particular, I voted. The compelling argument now is that you have 4 votes on you, and someone else should make it 5. I like counting.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Unvote

Don't like inHim counting my vote amongst the seemingly serious votes against the Fish, trying to appear to have more support than he does?

[Fishythefish]

The compelling argument is that you had 3 votes on you when I was looking for somewhere else to place a vote, and since I didn't think you were town in particular, I voted. The compelling argument now is that you have 4 votes on you, and someone else should make it 5. I like counting.

What does putting a vote on someone because they have several votes on them achieve?

[Brandi]

On Brandi:

Labelling me “probably town” in post 23 doesn’t quite ring true- I don’t think my first two posts look exceptionally pro-town, and this is possible buddying. Post 36- “Not enough for a lynch, but should be kept in mind”- this is a normal way for the scum to have an argument to come back to. Of course, it’s also true for everything in the game which isn’t lynchworthy. I’d like to know why she didn’t vote for hp at this point.

Well the 'probably town' thing was a gut feeling. Not really based on anything. Isn't buddying only something for scum + scum anyway? If it were a scummy thing to do... why would scum buddy town? I don't quite get that. Also I didn't vote HP cuz I wasn't sure on the whole 4 scum thing, and no one else seemed really sure either so at that point in my mind it could have been a slip and it couldn't have been, I didn't think he needed a bandwagon because what he said was pretty ambiguous and seemed like a not very good reason to base an entire lynch off of.

Also InHim I'm not sure but what are your reasons for pursuing a bandwagon on fishyyy?

[Gorrad]

Scummy buddy to town for two reasons. The first being that improves the buddy's opinion of the scum, making the former less likely to vote for the latter. The second is that, should the buddy die, the scum look good by association with town.

[Maturin24]

@inHim: Are you suggesting we kill off Fishy just because he has the largest bandwagon on him? I'm not sure if that's the best way to get useful information, especially considering the wagon got started in RVS.

[veerus]

Scummy buddy to town for two reasons. The first being that improves the buddy's opinion of the scum, making the former less likely to vote for the latter. The second is that, should the buddy die, the scum look good by association with town.

masked as "hey, we're still in random stage, i don't need a reason to play scummy"

[Gorrad]

Scummy buddy to town for two reasons. The first being that improves the buddy's opinion of the scum, making the former less likely to vote for the latter. The second is that, should the buddy die, the scum look good by association with town.

masked as "hey, we're still in random stage, i don't need a reason to play scummy"

Can you clarify? I don't understand to what you're referring.

[veerus]

This:

veerus: It's Day 1, meh. I'm not going to add much if there's nothing to be added. That's just more garbage to wade through on a reread, and doesn't help anyone, as far as I'm concerned. I'll do my little thing on the bandwagon.

Fishy seems to have cooled it on his front. Too bad he still has the most votes (I think.) Someone needs to climb aboard!

[Gorrad]

...I still fail to see continuity. Can you spell it out as opposed to one word and a quote?

[veerus]

he's deflecting without really defending his actions and tries to fuel bandwagons without any logic.. ie. playing scummy while hiding behind the "it's too early in the game" excuse...

[Gorrad]

Ah, all right. Thanks for bearing with me.

[inHimshallibe]

What does putting a vote on someone because they have several votes on them achieve?

lol

Pretty sure I've already covered this one, but once again: putting a vote on someone when they already have several votes on them pushes them toward a lynch.

Also InHim I'm not sure but what are your reasons for pursuing a bandwagon on fishyyy?

Honestly, it was because he had the largest wagon at the time. There you go, although I think I've already said that.

he's deflecting without really defending his actions

Please tell me how I've deflected anything. I've not tried to hide anything that I've done. The post of mine you quoted was pretty blatant in my intent to wagon Fishy. Also, your wording just makes your case shakier. "... not really defending" - well, am I defending, or am I not? Don't throw both options out there and wait for the town to decide for you.

and tries to fuel bandwagons without any logic..

There's logic to the bandwagon, whether you see it or not.

ie. playing scummy while hiding behind the "it's too early in the game" excuse...

Once again, I've yet to excuse myself of anything, especially not using this "too early" argument. >.>

@inHim: Are you suggesting we kill off Fishy just because he has the largest bandwagon on him? I'm not sure if that's the best way to get useful information, especially considering the wagon got started in RVS.

Maybe I'm too old-fashioned, but I've never gotten this many questions from trying to wagon. It kind of perplexes me that most of you all are focusing on intent to lynch rather than using bandwagons as an instrument of the game. Does no one understand what I'm getting at with this?

Seeing as my preferred type of Day 1 is not going to happen, I'm going to have to abandon the "reckless" bandwagonry.

unvote

Unvote

Don't like inHim counting my vote amongst the seemingly serious votes against the Fish, trying to appear to have more support than he does?

Fair enough. But why pose that as a question? I think you're asking approval of the rest of us before you lay down a vote, which happens to be scum-motivated protocol. veerus did do the same, but was not so egregious, as he is still a little more convincing of his intentions.

vote: Debonair Danny DiPietro

[Fishythefish]

You have covered why you voted me- because I had the largest bandwagon. You have covered why you thought this was good- it pushed me towards a lynch. I'm completely lost as to

why

you thought pushing a fairly arbitrary player towards a lynch was a good thing. To get reactions? How far should this go? You advocated a 5th vote on me in a 12 player game- for me that is a dangerous thing to do if you don't find me particularly scummy.

As far as I can see, if a bandwagon on someone is composed of votes which aren't for scumminess, it has little chance of acheiving anything other than a quicklynch or a claim, both of which are undesirable outcomes. To use a bandwagon as an "instrument of the game", it must be genuine.

[inHimshallibe]

You have covered why you voted me- because I had the largest bandwagon. You have covered why you thought this was good- it pushed me towards a lynch. I'm completely lost as to

why

you thought pushing a fairly arbitrary player towards a lynch was a good thing. To get reactions? How far should this go? You advocated a 5th vote on me in a 12 player game- for me that is a dangerous thing to do if you don't find me particularly scummy.

The nature of the wagon determines how far the wagon goes. If we get 5 votes and still aren't satisfied, there will be a 6th. If the hunger still isn't gone, there's a lynch.

As far as I can see, if a bandwagon on someone is composed of votes which aren't for scumminess, it has little chance of acheiving anything other than a quicklynch or a claim, both of which are undesirable outcomes. To use a bandwagon as an "instrument of the game", it must be genuine.

There's also the stall (or not) and the fallout after a wagon disbands, for starters. Both of these are very good tools.

I don't feel like I have to explain myself any further on this, as it's not really pertinent to this game in particular. Don't develop all this theoretical... stuff... within the game; just play each game.

[Gorrad]

Don't develop all this theoretical... stuff... within the game; just play each game.

Read as: You've got me in a corner. Please stop scumhunting.