The Manor: Chzo Mafia (Game Over!)

[Lamont_Cranston]

Although on second thought you both could still be town; just because you hit her claim hard doesn't make you scum necessarily as her claim was very, very poor.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Well place a vg vote, it will do you some good.

[Lamont_Cranston]

they could both be scum Lamont.

Right now I'm too tired and depressed to care

For them both to be scum Stepho and his buddies would have to be saying that she is SO worthless that they just want her dead no matter what. That would be a chilling reality that my mind refuses to believe actually.

[Lamont_Cranston]

they could both be scum Lamont.

Right now I'm too tired and depressed to care

For them both to be scum Stepho and his buddies would have to be saying that she is SO worthless that they just want her dead no matter what. That would be a chilling reality that my mind refuses to believe actually.

Two scum groups?

Aha, great point. The other thing I just thought of was the fact that if the scum (or those on her team if two groups) thought that her wagon woudn't take it

would

be a great bus.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Naomi why can't you be scum that made up a Trilby claim at L-1?

[Lamont_Cranston]

I think you should be lynched today but I don't think it will happen.

I have liked Pyro's contributions as of late, anything else that points out he might be scum besides he's voting for you?

I haven't seen him as a lurker at all.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Right. On the CC I'm thinking the real Trilby could be hanging back OR there is no real Trilby and its a safe-claim.

I seriously have nothing else to think based on the way her claim was partially made, added to and then justified in a way that just makes no sense; i.e. Trilby is no dang one-shot cop -- to me that's like calling the Mod stupid -- I mean a one-shot cop is like a reporter or something not the

MAIN

character in the entire game.

Naomi, could you please add a little more juice to your role, its sounding a little "under-funded"? kthx.

errrm, * ducks *

[Lamont_Cranston]

Well partially NK-immune could of worked (one faction immune but not the other) and how does it fit the flavor?

Trilby is a one-shot cop?? Trilby is a continuous non-stop cop who

can

die. Based on flavor her claim

is

ludicrous.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Funny I previewed that post and didn't see those tag erors:

Trilby is a continuous non-stop cop who

can

die. Based on flavor her claim

is

ludicrous

[Lamont_Cranston]

Well I don't know much about Chzo and that wasn't what I based that statement on.

Being the main character, I can definitely see NK immune, just based on video games in general; when playing, you can die, but in the plot your character doesn't.

What makes you say he's a continuous cop? What exactly does he do in the game?

When you play the game he's the guy you play as. The entire game revolves around him constantly. You win the game by guiding him (as him) through a long investigation of various clues and items and eventually you win. There is no flavor reason for him to be only a one-shot cop. He would need to be a full-blown cop no matter what. I think the UNK is suspicious. Scum claim UNK all the time as a cover and Trilby doesn't have that as part of his flavor. He dies ALOT in the game over and over (when you make mistakes).

So flavor wise I can only accept a full-blown cop. Naomi please change your claim.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Trilby ends up being more of a puppet then anything, as I believe was mentioned already... perhaps there is another cop role out there, one yet to be confirmed?

Trilby is constantly being guided simply by luck, he's lucky to end up in Chzo manor, and lucky to find the culprit at the end of the game...

This, just like your justification of your weak claim as "game balance", is totally unfounded. He entered the manor as a thief and got stuck there. After that he begins a thoughtful investigation that takes place over

several

days and after unearthing (literally) all sorts of clues he eventually is able to "kill" the disembodied boy and leave the house. There is no luck there. It is him thoughtfully investigating and discovering clues THE WHOLE GAME.

Just claim full cop and everything will be OK.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Lamont:
Now you're asking me to make a fake claim on top of a claim you think to be fake? The mod said that this game was in no way meant to be fair to the town, and that it would require us to actually think.

With that being said, Pyro:
arguing in mafia is not bad, but arguing of things senselessly and coming to no solid answers is not good. That's what I saw happening.. and it's still going on... and will be till the game ends. The idea is to find those who are creating the senseless arguing that leads us nowhere...

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be true." This means that you are
A. Scum.
B. have a case of extremely short term memory loss.
As you appear to have a decant memory, we can eliminate B.

However improbable, must be true... but your answers are incorrect so you will come to an incorrect conclusion as a result of incorrect thinking.

A. I'm scum
B. I'm new and have made errors that scum are jumping on
C. I'm new and have made errors that

scum

everyone is jumping on and they are right I'm scum

Now that the answers are a little more accurate, would you still say B should be eliminated?

Yes, C is fine.

(on an outside the game note) I'm glad to see you sticking around and studying some games and such. I think the more you do the more fun it will be.

(back to the game) You need to be lynched.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I was thinking the same thing but I wanted to wait for the prod to go out and the "not vig-voting scum" list to clear first. Once we have it cleared up then I was thinking we could put like a 24hr timer on it for everyone to firm up their votes and such...

[Lamont_Cranston]

Mod: Voecount please

[Lamont_Cranston]

Devastation, if you do not place your vig-vote we will relentlessly push for your lynch after we vig and it

will

go through.

So please vig-vote nao.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Setael-3 (Pablo, Lamont, Pyro)

Pablo-2.5 (Amished, Setael, Tajo)
Sironi-2 (Zwet, Naomi)
Devastation-2 (Stepho, Rock)
Stepho-1 (Sironi)
Zwet-1 (Nyx)
Tajo-1 (Xtoxm)
Lamont-.5 (Amished)


Not vig-voting scum:

Devastation, AJ, Elmo

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

I also need Amish Ed to come back and clear up his .5/.5 voting as there has been a complaint... 9.9

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Setael-4 (Pablo, Lamont, Pyro, Amished)

Pablo-2.5 (Amished, Setael, Tajo)
Sironi-2 (Zwet, Naomi)
Devastation-2 (Stepho, Rock)
Stepho-1 (Sironi)
Zwet-1 (Nyx)
Tajo-1 (Xtoxm)

Not vig-voting scum:

Devastation, AJ, Elmo

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

: not yet established (but vote now!)

Setael-3 (Lamont, Pyro, Amished)

Pablo-2.5 (Amished, Setael, Tajo)
Sironi-2 (Zwet, Naomi)
Devastation-2 (Stepho, Rock)
Zwet-2 (Nyx, Pablo)
Stepho-1 (Sironi)
Tajo-1 (Xtoxm)

Not vig-voting scum:

Devastation, AJ, Elmo

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

:

not yet established (but vote now!)

Setael-3 (Lamont, Pyro, Amished)

Pablo-2 (Setael, Tajo)
Sironi-2 (Zwet, Naomi)
Devastation-2 (Stepho, Rock)
Zwet-2 (Nyx, Pablo)
Stepho-1 (Sironi)
Tajo-1 (Xtoxm)

Not vig-voting scum:

Devastation, AJ, Elmo

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

Ok sorry I'm doing this while at work getting calls. :8}

[Lamont_Cranston]

Btw, if Setael is pulling a

"rofl this town sucks, I give up"

its her fault for getting vigged.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

:

not yet established (but vote now!)

Setael-4 (Lamont, Pyro, Amished, Sironi)

Pablo-2 (Setael, Tajo)
Sironi-2 (Zwet, Naomi)
Devastation-2 (Stepho, Rock)
Zwet-2 (Nyx, Pablo)
Tajo-1 (Xtoxm)

Not vig-voting scum:

Devastation, AJ, Elmo

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

Here's what I'm thinking:

As soon as the Mod gets in, prods AJ, Devastaton makes his next post and Elmo posts again then we start the timer.

So towards that end:

Mod please prod Elmo

*** Please vig-vote now or be lynched. ***

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

:

VERY, VERY, SOON (vote now!)

Setael-4 (Lamont, Pyro, Amished, Sironi)

Devastation-3 (Stepho, Rock, Elmo)
Pablo-2 (Setael, Tajo)
Sironi-2 (Zwet, Naomi)
Zwet-2 (Nyx, Pablo)
Tajo-1 (Xtoxm)

Not vig-voting scum:

Devastation, AJ

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

Also, we seem to have a lot of people with only 1-2 votes on them, it may call for some kind of instant-runoff voting if we can't get decent wagons moving.

Instant-runoff voting (IRV) is the American English term for a voting system used for single-winner elections, in which voters rank candidates in an order of preference. If no candidate is the first preference of a majority of voters, the candidate with the fewest number of first preference rankings is eliminated and that candidate's ballots are redistributed at full value to the remaining candidates according to the next ranking on each ballot. This process is repeated until one candidate obtains a majority of votes among candidates not eliminated. The term "instant runoff" is used because the method is said to simulate a series of runoff elections tallied in rounds, as in an exhaustive ballot election.[1]

Apparently this is a fancy way of saying:

"If you're not on a main wagon, join one!"

AND

"If you don't you're scum!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

:

VERY, VERY, SOON (vote now!)

Setael-5 (Lamont, Pyro, Amished, Sironi, Devastation)

Devastation-3 (Stepho, Rock, Elmo)
Pablo-2 (Setael, Tajo)
Sironi-2 (Zwet, Naomi)
Zwet-2 (Nyx, Pablo)
Tajo-1 (Xtoxm)

Not vig-voting scum:

AJ

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

Hmm. Also - what effect would it have on a bad guy? Is there anyone here familiar with the flavour? I've only played

5

days a stranger

, and that was a while ago.

Yes and that is the game with the

Manor

. The Mod was very particular to point out that was the manor we are in.

Now since Trilby is the central character and the game is called FIVE days a stranger HOW IN THE WORLD does it make ANY sense for Trilby to be a one-shot cop!??

I mean the game isn't called ONE Day a Stranger!!!

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

:

VERY, VERY, SOON (vote now!)

Setael-5 (Lamont, Pyro, Amished, Sironi, Devastation)

Devastation-3 (Stepho, Rock, Elmo)
Pablo-2 (Setael, Tajo)
Sironi-2 (Zwet, Naomi)
Zwet-2 (Nyx, Pablo)
Tajo-1 (Xtoxm)

Not vig-voting scum:

AJ

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

You need to set a hard deadline for vig voting

I'm waiting for AJ's prod to get back?

[Lamont_Cranston]

@Town
Are we going for a majority of the votes for the vig so that informed anti-town parties have less influence or just who has the most ?

My thoughts were just the most votes but there has been a call for a "runoff" which could mean something different...

[Lamont_Cranston]

Setael-5 (Lamont, Pyro, Amished, Sironi, Devastation)
Devastation-3 (Stepho, Rock, Elmo)

These are the main wagons. I don't see the Devastation case really and so I can't really support it at this time.

I think we've caught scum in Setael. Her "rofl the town sucks" post followed by game abandonment reminds me of scum. Her lack of response to my pointed question concerning Ho living an extra day and her attempt to sway to village towards disbelieving Amished's claim while he is UNK Doc looks very suspicious. All of those things piled together make a good case against Set.

Pablo-2 (Setael, Tajo)
Sironi-2 (Zwet, Naomi)
Zwet-2 (Nyx, Pablo)

These are the secondary wagons.

I can't say I see much on Zwet; his before the deadline post for Stepho is noted (could be good or bad who knows? The fact he voted is good tho).

I can see the cases on Pablo and Sironi and I'm not sure which one is stronger but from my last examinations they seemed kind of on the weaker side.

Tajo-1 (Xtoxm)

This wagon is going nowhere. I would recommend a re-vote here.

Not vig-voting scum: AJ

Now this is a whole different ball of wax. AJ will be replaced 100%. We need a replacement that is willing to re-read and make a responsible decision. I would recommend they start at least from D2 (Pg. 46) and read from there and see what they think, what questions they have etc.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Hmm. Also - what effect would it have on a bad guy? Is there anyone here familiar with the flavour? I've only played

5

days a stranger

, and that was a while ago.

Yes and that is the game with the

Manor

. The Mod was very particular to point out that was the manor we are in.

Now since Trilby is the central character and the game is called FIVE days a stranger HOW IN THE WORLD does it make ANY sense for Trilby to be a one-shot cop!??

I mean the game isn't called ONE Day a Stranger!!!

When designing a setup, sometimes flavour is sacrificed for balance. Think about it from a modding standpoint. I would need to play the game to know, but you should only push this argument if you're really sure it's the case.

Ya I'm certain because there is no reason why Trilby would HAVE to be dumbed down. Trilby would be a determining factor in the game balance itself (as the main character). The game would be built around him and the disembodied boy. So the Mod wouldn't dumb Trilby down but OTHER roles to provide game balance.

A one-shot cop is

extremely

weak for THE main character of the game. And once again UNK makes no sense; Trilby can die plenty in the game and is at no time immune to it (not by default anyway).

However, I would like to understand more what Amished's role is and where the Mod got it and the details of it. I would like this iinofrmation before we vig. Can anyone help me here?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Well, i'm pretty damn certain there isn't going to be an NK Immune Cop (full) in the game...It's way too powerful.

Lamont, i've already said how you can die in-game doesn't count.

Does Trilby survive at the end of the game, in the

storyline

?

See I don't support the view that the Mod is following how Trilby "must" live because that's how a player would win the game with Trilby. I'm more for the view that just like in the actual game Trilby can be killed.

My main case here is with the flavor:

1) Trilby =/= one-shot cop

2) In-game Trilby =/= UNK

Trilby's character is not

required

to be UNK to provide flavor. I really disagree that the Mod is saying that Trilby has to be UNK (because "Trilby must survive to honor the way a player would win the game as Trilby").

I am much more in favor of the Mod leaving all of that open as the game is actually played. Therefore since Trilby doesn't have a UNK ability in the game I disbelieve he does here too.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Tajo's stalling posts layed out for you, seeing as no one can be bothered to check. He's playing pathetically whatever he is, but he shouldn't be allowed to get away with this kind of thing. And I think he's more likely to do this as scum, as scum have incentice to want to lurk.

I agree and I notice he's joining more games which surprises me. How can a person say he's bored with a game and not catch up or post consistently and yet join more?

I do not understand his actions here. I think we should talk more about him after we vig and he shouldn't be left off the table.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Well..That's more mod wifom than anything. I do see what you're saying and it makes sense, but there's no garantee the mod thought that way. So I don't buy point 2).

Point 1) may have some stock, but again...Dependant on how mod interprets 2), and like I said...If mod wanted to make Trilby NK Immune, I can see him impeding Trilby's other power. I don't think this argument holds. That said, the way Naomi claimed it did look bad. BUT if Trilby is as obv-cop as you say, then it's possible she really did believe it would be obvious to us he was a cop, hence the lack of claiming it.

Trilby is not obv-cop but if Trilby is a cop he's not one-shot cop. I mean the game runs 5 actual game days! There are morning scenes each day and Trilby is able to continue his "investigative" role on each day.

Btw points one & two are objective fact about the game itself.

Here is where the position is totally flawed:

If we are to accept that:

A)

Trilby must be UNK because he survives to leave the manor because that's how the game goes

Then we must also accept that

B)

The Mafi are in a similar way compromised so the town will win as well because that's how the game goes

, right?

Do you see how imbalanced that is? How un-gamelike it would make the setup?

Far better is allowing the game to play as it actually does with chances for Trilby to die AND investigate on each of our game days just like in the actual game.

Neither the UNK or the

one-shot

cop make sense here game-wise.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Ok well both our cases are clearly laid out so we're good.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I really think Devestation is the right choice for the vig...

Did you see my response to your previous post concerning the devastation wagon? Could you please reply to it? Thanks.

[Lamont_Cranston]

@Stepho:

I don't see us making a lynch at this time without a major re-alignment, but I am pretty sure that either Stephoscope or Naomi are scum, and within 24 hours I will have made my decision as to which one to vote for.

Ok this is post #987 it appears he is saying that

either

you OR Naomi are scum; in other words if Naomi is scum, you're not and vice-versa.

I think his point is very true here.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Post #1363 for everyone's reading pleaseure:

And I think Lamont has pretty well nailed Naomi to the floor. I won't vote until she posts to defend herself though.

Don't think that I forgot that yesterday you were saying you were going to vote for either me or Naomi...and while I understand Lamont's position, I relentlessly attacked Naomi's claim yesterday.

I think Devestation needs to die based on his shift in thinking. I spent a lot of time yesterday attacking Naomi's claim...and yet I was still on Devestation's list of suspects...now all of a sudden Devestation's giving credit to Lamont for outing Naomi's supposed scumminess, even though in my opinion Lamont hasn't hit Naomi nearly as hard as I was yesterday.

I'm starting to think Naomi's claim really is legitimate, based on posts from both her and the mod today.

I reserve the right to change this, but for now:

Vig vote:

Devestation

[Lamont_Cranston]

My reply is that it was quite an opportunistic statement, and there's no reason to think it's a valid point. It would be pretty easy for scum to sit back and see two townies (I'm not convinced Naomi is town, but it's a possibility) fighting, and then say "well one or the other must be scum", and by the time we've lynched one townie and then the other, the scum may be in trouble, but he and his buddies are almost at the win.

You seem to think I misinterpreted what Devestation posted...I don't believe I did.

Ok well, let me mull this over while I'm at work.

[Lamont_Cranston]

My reply is that it was quite an opportunistic statement, and there's no reason to think it's a valid point. It would be pretty easy for scum to sit back and see two townies (I'm not convinced Naomi is town, but it's a possibility) fighting, and then say "well one or the other must be scum", and by the time we've lynched one townie and then the other, the scum may be in trouble, but he and his buddies are almost at the win.

You seem to think I misinterpreted what Devestation posted...I don't believe I did.

Ok well, let me mull this over while I'm at work.

@Devastation:

Could you please reply to this?

[Lamont_Cranston]

[quote="Lamont_Cranston"]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

:

VERY, VERY, SOON (vote now!)

Setael-5 (Lamont, Pyro, Amished, Sironi, Devastation)

Devastation-3 (Stepho, Rock, Elmo)
Pablo-2 (Setael, Tajo)
Sironi-2 (Zwet, Naomi)
Zwet-2 (Nyx, Pablo)
Tajo-1 (Xtoxm)

Not vig-voting scum:

AJ, Dramonic

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

:

VERY, VERY, SOON (vote now!)

Setael-5 (Lamont, Pyro, Amished, Sironi, Devastation)

Devastation-3 (Stepho, Rock, Elmo)
Pablo-2 (Setael, Tajo)
Sironi-2 (Zwet, Naomi)
Zwet-2 (Nyx, Pablo)
Tajo-1 (Xtoxm)

Not vig-voting scum:

AJ, Dramonic

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

Amished has said he protected her which he has also said prevents her from being vigged.

He said he would rage quit over the Mod lying to him if this was not so and since

Ho

Elmo now lives an extra day I guess we have to believe him.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Lamont, I don't understand why you're tying to out-guess the mod... it seems extremely wasteful, since we have no way of knowing what he was thinking when he did anything while setting up this game...

It has nothing to do with the way you seemed to fabricate your claim in real-time/in-thread, you can be sure.

And more over, I think that pushing for me to change my claim is a waste of time and another distraction. Whether or not my 1-shot claim was legit, changing it to say I really am a 5-shot doesn't mean anything... it just means that I changed my story. A waste of time, and a major distraction...

I was being totally serious.

I have my eye on you Lamont... Are you controlling the game and distracting it at the same time...???

Yes, and I'm about to claim

odd-day tracker, even-day watcher, day-lynch/night kill bomb

[/sarcasm]

[Lamont_Cranston]

Btw,

Setael

has been officially lurking in this game for the last 3 days (she has posted on each of the 3 days elsewhere). I find this deplorable and it reminds me of scum.

[Lamont_Cranston]

The only reason he escaped a lynch yesterday was lying

to

for the town. Please take a closer look at Lamont because he got a day vig item and gave it to the town;

does not

this makes him prob-town.

/fixed

[Lamont_Cranston]

Post 1517 for your viewing pleasure:

Btw, if Setael is pulling a

"rofl this town sucks, I give up"

its her fault for getting vigged.

Welcome back Set, thanks for lurking.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

:

VERY, VERY, SOON (vote now!)

Setael-5 (Lamont, Pyro, Amished, Sironi, Devastation)

Devastation-3 (Stepho, Rock, Elmo)
Zwet-3 (Nyx, Pablo, Xtoxm)
Sironi-2 (Zwet, Naomi)
Lamont-1 (Setael)
Pablo-1 (Tajo)

Not vig-voting scum:

AJ, Dramonic

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

Unfortuantely we have

two

replacements we are waiting for.

On a side note Devastation, you have dodged Stepho's attack...

[Lamont_Cranston]

We have three extra days now, what's the rush?

[Lamont_Cranston]

You are seeking town points for doing something you would do whether you were town or scum.

I have townie points because of the fact that I 1) Protected the shell by avoiding a certain NK & 2) Gave the vig to the town when I didn't have to. Doing those two things doesn't necessarily make me town, but townie points nonetheless.

Yes, I avoided this game. I did my best to explain why my assumption that there's no scum roleblocker makes PERFECT sense (and was actually amished's point).

I asked you twice for an explanation and so far have received nothing.

Your explanation here has not addressed my specific concerns. I responded to your pointed question as well and have received no response.

Instead you accuse me of being scum for voting you. For an experienced player, this is a very weak defense.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Here are your attacks on Amished. You start slow and ramp it up.

Amished, I have a question for you, too. When you first claimed, why didn't you mention that your role enables you to avoid being blocked by town power roles? the way you tacked it on after really made it sound like you made it up...

---

Something is wrong with your claim. If the protection lasts until the start of the next night, how does it not apply to lynches, which happen BEFORE the next night starts.

Also, has anyone ever heard of a dr. that protects themself as well as a multitude of other people? Especially without a scum roleblocker? How is that balanced?

I'm not saying start a wagon on Amished. I'm just saying his claim is fishy and I'm not considering him confirmed town by any means.

---

The claimed powerrole being spoken of there is Amished's. Does it really make sense that a protown multiprotect doc would not be roleblocked by scum if they had the ability? Either Amished successfully protected naomi (and therefore wasn't blocked) or he's not the reason Naomi was granted an extra day.

Either the scum have no roleblocker or Amished is not really a doc. It's as simple as that. My argument was/is that a doc this overpowered + no scum roleblocker = imbalanced game.

You ignored my pointed question about this which is why I decided to vig-vote you. Could you please address the question below?

Also, has anyone ever heard of a dr. that protects themself as well as a multitude of other people? Especially without a scum roleblocker? How is that balanced?

@Setael:

Do you see here how you could be falling into a scum trap by thinking this way? On the other hand, if you are correct, how do we explain Ho living an extra day??

So what is the explanation here??

Thank you.

[Lamont_Cranston]

However, I would like to understand more what Amished's role is and where the Mod got it and the details of it. I would like this iinofrmation before we vig. Can anyone help me here?

[Lamont_Cranston]

I'm not saying start a wagon on Amished. I'm just saying his claim is fishy and I'm not considering him confirmed town by any means.

---

The claimed powerrole being spoken of there is Amished's. Does it really make sense that a protown multiprotect doc would not be roleblocked by scum if they had the ability? Either Amished successfully protected naomi (and therefore wasn't blocked) or he's not the reason Naomi was granted an extra day.

Either the scum have no roleblocker or Amished is not really a doc. It's as simple as that.

My argument was/is that a doc this overpowered + no scum roleblocker = imbalanced game.

I

really

don't like this "I'm not really attacking the town Doc" here while attacking the town Doc.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Good players DO provide a better defense though and it doesn't make sense that she wouldn't show townie by properly defending. I've seen scum act like this and until I see something better Set just looks like she is scum trying various psychological methods to weasel out of a vig kill.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Sounds like you need to be regular Rock, good for you.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Someone just have me prodded once all this vig nonsense is over with.

A wonderful example of a pro-town attitude. Since when is town dayvig nonsense?

I just think you are being lazy and not paying attention.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Well scum hate vigs that is for sure.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

:

VERY, VERY, SOON (vote now!)

Setael-6 (Lamont, Pyro, Amished, Sironi, Devastation, Zwet)

Devastation-3 (Stepho, Rock, Elmo)
Zwet-3 (Nyx, Pablo, Xtoxm)
Sironi-1 (Naomi)
Lamont-1 (Setael)
Pablo-1 (Tajo)

Not vig-voting scum:

AJ, Dramonic

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

In fact I'm going to update my wiki with a "defense abandonment" section. I'm also going to think hard about a "omgosh this town sucks" section.

[Lamont_Cranston]

The mod clearly stated that day-drop items have to be used that day.

The shotgun shell was a day-drop item that was not used the day it was found.

So of course, what we end up doing is devoting 85% of the discussion to who should be vigged.

Good job, carry on.

Brilliant analysis except that will be no excuse when Nyx fires the shot today.

My PM said the shell did not have to be used that day;

think about it

, its a SHOTGUN SHELL. The shotgun dropped the next day. So do you think what I'm saying about my PM makes sense??

You're going to need to eat alot more raisin bran when you're proven to be wrong in short order...

Quit being lazy and start trying to help the town instead of being such an anti-town critic.

[Lamont_Cranston]

The mod clearly stated that day-drop items have to be used that day.

The shotgun shell was a day-drop item that was not used the day it was found.

So of course, what we end up doing is devoting 85% of the discussion to who should be vigged.

Good job, carry on.

Brilliant analysis except that will be no excuse when Nyx fires the shot today.

My PM said the shell did not have to be used that day;

think about it

, its a SHOTGUN SHELL. The shotgun dropped the next day. So do you think what I'm saying about my PM makes sense??

You're going to need to eat alot more raisin bran when you're proven to be wrong in short order...

Quit being lazy and start trying to help the town instead of being such an anti-town critic.

Oh, and another thing Mr. Raisin Bran, this dayvig discussion provides excellent info for the town or did you just conveniently forget that's how day vigs work and why they are so good for the town??

FoS Rock

[Lamont_Cranston]

I remember being assured that we actually had a dayvig. Is there some uncertainty?

Its pretty clear. I received the shotgun shell and was told it didn't have to be used that day. The shotgun drop message is clear in that it will hold up for a single shot. Its very clear.

'Ol Raisin Bran over here is just trying to stir up trouble because he couldn't be bothered to scum hunt or help the town in any other way.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Oh look its 'ol Two-Scoops Sunshine himself!

[Lamont_Cranston]

Look, I hope the shotgun works and we get a dayvig.

However, why should our default assumption be that Lamont got a PM directly contradicting what the mod posted in thread?

Because a shotgun shell CAN'T be used by itself genius!

[Lamont_Cranston]

@Nyx:

Now that you have both the shell and shotgun together, do you have any additional info you can share about how they work?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Again, I hope that the dayvig works out. However, I can't believe that more townies aren't being a least a little skeptical about what's going on here.

Look, I don't care if Rock thinks he is helping the town or not.

This is subtle form of discouraging the day vig and its not serving any pro-town purpose.

He needs to wait until after we vig.

[Lamont_Cranston]

As the group rushes in a mob towards the fireplace, Nyx tramples the stretching hands of Lamont and Devestation before grabbing the gun himself. "Looks like a pretty standard 8-bore shotgun. Rusty as hell, though.

Probably fall apart

after one shot.

"

Shotgun + Shell = Day Vig

Simple.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Makes sense to me.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Obviously if somebody's PM contradicts a game rule you run with the PM and I'm sorry but obviously it makes

zero

sense how a shotgun shell can be used by itself -- OH and ya a shotgun just

happens

to drop the next day...

[Lamont_Cranston]

You are seeking town points for doing something you would do whether you were town or scum.

I have townie points because of the fact that I 1) Protected the shell by avoiding a certain NK & 2) Gave the vig to the town when I didn't have to. Doing those two things doesn't necessarily make me town, but townie points nonetheless.

Yes, I avoided this game. I did my best to explain why my assumption that there's no scum roleblocker makes PERFECT sense (and was actually amished's point).

I asked you twice for an explanation and so far have received nothing.

Your explanation here has not addressed my specific concerns. I responded to your pointed question as well and have received no response.

[Lamont_Cranston]

See, I knew Tajo was kewl. <3

[Lamont_Cranston]

@Zwet and Devestation and anyone else who accused me of OMGUS:

You need to look up the definition of OMGUS. I have good reason to be suspicious of lamont. Just because everyone is ignoring my points on him does not make them go away.

In less words for those of you who seem to ignore my entire posts: Lamont is seeking town points for doing something he would do whether he were town or scum.

Any townies on my vig wagon please reread today's posts. You either haven't been reading carefully or you're misunderstanding something.

That's the problem. I read your case. It's complete bullshit.

Thanks Zwet, your check is in the mail.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Tajo <3

Also, we really should have vigged someone by now. I suggest most votes kills + {dice} tiebreaker with a deadline for Thursday.

I think we should at least wait for Dramonic to weigh in.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Here are your attacks on Amished. You start slow and ramp it up.

Amished, I have a question for you, too. When you first claimed, why didn't you mention that your role enables you to avoid being blocked by town power roles? the way you tacked it on after really made it sound like you made it up...

---

Something is wrong with your claim. If the protection lasts until the start of the next night, how does it not apply to lynches, which happen BEFORE the next night starts.

Also, has anyone ever heard of a dr. that protects themself as well as a multitude of other people? Especially without a scum roleblocker? How is that balanced?

I'm not saying start a wagon on Amished. I'm just saying his claim is fishy and I'm not considering him confirmed town by any means.

---

The claimed powerrole being spoken of there is Amished's. Does it really make sense that a protown multiprotect doc would not be roleblocked by scum if they had the ability? Either Amished successfully protected naomi (and therefore wasn't blocked) or he's not the reason Naomi was granted an extra day.

Either the scum have no roleblocker or Amished is not really a doc. It's as simple as that. My argument was/is that a doc this overpowered + no scum roleblocker = imbalanced game.

You ignored my pointed question about this which is why I decided to vig-vote you. Could you please address the question below?

Also, has anyone ever heard of a dr. that protects themself as well as a multitude of other people? Especially without a scum roleblocker? How is that balanced?

@Setael:

Do you see here how you could be falling into a scum trap by thinking this way? On the other hand, if you are correct, how do we explain Ho living an extra day??

So what is the explanation here??

Thank you.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Also this:

You are seeking town points for doing something you would do whether you were town or scum.

I have townie points because of the fact that I 1) Protected the shell by avoiding a certain NK & 2) Gave the vig to the town when I didn't have to. Doing those two things doesn't necessarily make me town, but townie points nonetheless.

[Lamont_Cranston]

You are not playing very well at this time Set. Why is this? All of these posts have been clearly presented at least twice.

I'm trying to decide if this is a scum last ditch effort to finally present a real defense or what??

[Lamont_Cranston]

Right. I'm not trying to convince anyone by that post, only to point out the truth about it. Certain people will always say "oh this could of been done by scum" which doesn't mean anything absoultely by itself, except the particular point they are referencing is not a 100% ironclad town argument (see my wiki under WIFOM).

My point is of course that town is

more likely

to have done it than scum.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

:

VERY, VERY, SOON (vote now!)

Setael-7 (Lamont, Pyro, Amished, Sironi, Devastation, Zwet, Dramonic)

Devastation-3 (Stepho, Rock, Elmo)
Zwet-3 (Nyx, Pablo, Xtoxm)
Sironi-1 (Naomi)
Lamont-1 (Setael)
Pablo-1 (Tajo)

Not vig-voting scum:

AJ

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

Ok, I think that we should set a 24 hour deadline from today. This will be a chance for the votes on the top three wagons to possibly shift around.

I also think Naomi & Tajo need to re-vote. If they don't I think that should be held as suspicious.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I apologize to the town for being an easy mis-vig. I feel that I have defended against everything anyone brought up and don't really know what else I could have or can say.

I certainly agree that Amished should not be vigged or lynched. My sole argument is and always was that his role seems overpowered if there is no scum RB.

I don't really feel like there's anything I can do to stop this vig. It's based on misunderstandings and nonsensical drivel. Though I'd much prefer scum get vigged, I do think a lot of info will be gleaned once I flip town so if we're going to vig a townie, it may as well be me.

Post #1652 & #1654 please.

[Lamont_Cranston]

PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT VOTING FOR NAOMI OR WOULD NOT BE IF THEY DID NOT WANT TO VIG SOMEONE FIRST
Please explain how the following sequences of post do not convict naomi. I may have gotten some of the post numbers wrong. Two is the most important.

1. 998, 1002, 1006, 1015, 1028, (stalling for time)
2. 1031, 1033, 1038

Reposting since it got ignored by everybody except one person.


Although purposing polices is usually bad, I have one to suggest. How about if we get to two days before deadline, we lynch the person with the most votes.IF there are two wagons that might possible go through (one at 6, the other at 5) then we will force everybody to chose between one of those two wagons. Sound good?

First we have to deal with the vig. I'm proposing a 24 hr deadline from when we can get some consensus about it.

Secondly, I did not ignore your case against Naomi either; mostly they are points that I already made and agree with.

[Lamont_Cranston]

@Setael: Do you see here how you could be falling into a scum trap by thinking this way? On the other hand, if you are correct, how do we explain Ho living an extra day??

That's the question you keep referring to? No wonder I didn't notice it. The first one is a rhetorical question, right? If not, the answer is no, obviously.

You don't see how the scum could plan to not roleblock Amished and then attack him over how he wasn't roleblocked??

Your reply to the second question to follow.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Ok you make excellent sense here in response to my second question:

The second part I have answered a million times.

I believe Amished is the reason Ho lived an extra day

.

But that isn't what you said before, instead you blatantly contradict that logic:

Also, has anyone ever heard of a dr. that protects themself as well as a multitude of other people? Especially without a scum roleblocker? How is that balanced?

I'm not saying start a wagon on Amished.

I'm just saying his claim is fishy

and I'm not considering him confirmed town by any means. Either the scum have no roleblocker or

Amished is not really a doc.

Not only does this attack the previously established fact that Amish is a Doc (as you agreed to in your first post) but it sets up a false WIFOM where the town must choose from two false possibilities; false because the third choice was conveniently not included. This is exactly what scum would do if they wanted to lynch a self-protecting Doc.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I'm being asked to re-vote? I'll have to go over and look at the cases for the top three candidates, I will vig vote again soon

Naomi, the only reason this is being asked is because the person you are voting for has no chance of getting the most votes. It is similar to a runoff election.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

:

VERY, VERY, SOON (vote now!)

Setael-7 (Lamont, Pyro, Amished, Sironi, Devastation, Zwet, Dramonic)

Devastation-4 (Stepho, Rock, Elmo, Naomi)
Zwet-3 (Nyx, Pablo, Xtoxm)
Lamont-1 (Setael)
Pablo-1 (Tajo)

Not vig-voting scum:

AJ

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

Yes, but that means I'm going to have to join a wagon, for the sake of progress. I'm not happy about having to do so, but I'm not interested in voting for someone and having my vote wasted I'm here to help the town, not hinder it... Keeping my vote the way it was would be a complete waste.

With that being said:

Vig-vote: Devastation

Naomi when you move your vote over its always best to explain why you chose Devastation over Zwet or Set. Otherwise it looks like you are trying to hide behind being forced by the town to choose. You still need to make the decision yourself and back it up with reason. Alternatively you could hold your ground and say all three are village in your eyes and why.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Also, Lamont I can't figure out what question you're saying I didn't answer. Can you state it here please? Don't just give a quite number -

I mafia from my phone and it's not easy to look up old posts.

I'm trying to figure out why an experienced player would join a 60+ page game and then claim "I-phone disability" as a reason for not properly defending or analyzing the game??

Sorry, I need clarification on this...

[Lamont_Cranston]

If the scum have a RB why not just block the claimed doc and kill him?

This is very interesting. I would like to hear Amished's response to this and get some quick discussion on this...

[Lamont_Cranston]

Based on the above post I am a hair's breadth away from vig-voting Devastation for being very uncooperative in a sort-of active-lurking way.

Please some people talk about the above post.

I haven't heard

much

anything from people on the deadline. Should we set it for 24 hours from now?

[Lamont_Cranston]

If the scum have a RB why not just block the claimed doc and kill him?

This is very interesting. I would like to hear Amished's response to this and get some quick discussion on this...

This relates directly to the vig-kill. I need talk about this nao! (please? )

[Lamont_Cranston]

If the scum have a RB why not just block the claimed doc and kill him?

This is very interesting. I would like to hear Amished's response to this and get some quick discussion on this...

This relates directly to the vig-kill. I need talk about this nao! (please? )

[Lamont_Cranston]

He is self-protecting Doc. Does it makes sense that scum would RB and kill the self-protecting Doc?

[Lamont_Cranston]

I think Set has come up a valid reason why the Mafi do not have a RB. If they did they would of killed Amished last night. That being true, I don't really see a reason for me to vig Set.

Does Set's idea make sense that the Mafi would of RB'ed & killed Amished last night?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Her point was very clear in that she was saying there has to be no Mafia RB otherwise Amished would be dead today.

I just need verification that her point is valid that if the Mafi had a RB they could of RB'ed and killed Amished last night...

[Lamont_Cranston]

@Setael:

Why the Devastation vote?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

:

8am GMT June 25(?)

Setael-7 (Lamont, Pyro, Amished, Sironi, Devastation, Zwet, Dramonic)

Devastation-5 (Stepho, Rock, Elmo, Naomi, Xtoxm)
Zwet-2 (Nyx, Pablo,)
Lamont-1 (Setael)
Pablo-1 (Tajo)

Not vig-voting scum:

Zazier

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

Her point was very clear in that she was saying there has to be no Mafia RB otherwise Amished would be dead today.

I just need verification that her point is valid that if the Mafi had a RB they could of RB'ed and killed Amished last night...

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

:

8am GMT June 26(?)

Setael-7 (Lamont, Pyro, Amished, Sironi, Devastation, Zwet, Dramonic)

Devastation-5 (Stepho, Rock, Elmo, Naomi, Xtoxm)
Zwet-2 (Nyx, Pablo,)
Lamont-1 (Setael)
Pablo-1 (Tajo)

Not vig-voting scum:

Zazier

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

Her point was very clear in that she was saying there has to be no Mafia RB otherwise Amished would be dead today.

I just need verification that her point is valid that if the Mafi had a RB they could of RB'ed and killed Amished last night...

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

:

8am GMT June 26(?)

Setael-7 (Lamont, Pyro, Amished, Sironi, Devastation, Zwet, Dramonic)

Devastation-6 (Stepho, Rock, Elmo, Naomi, Xtoxm, Tajo)
Zwet-2 (Nyx, Pablo,)
Lamont-1 (Setael)

Not vig-voting scum:

Zazier

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

Her point was very clear in that she was saying there has to be no Mafia RB otherwise Amished would be dead today.

I just need verification that her point is valid that if the Mafi had a RB they could of RB'ed and killed Amished last night...

[Lamont_Cranston]

If Amished is doc, I dont think its extremely obligatory for scum to kill him.

Please explain this.

My question goes only to game mechanics. Is it at least reasonable to assume that Mafia can both RB & kill Amished?

[Lamont_Cranston]

If Amished is doc, I dont think its extremely obligatory for scum to kill him.

Please explain this.

My question goes only to game mechanics. Is it at least reasonable to assume that Mafia can both RB & kill Amished?

If scum have a roleblocker, it''s allowed to roleblock and kill the same player on one night, if that''s what you are asking.

Ok then I really don't see scum trying to get a town PR lynched here. I really don't like how Setael defended so poorly initially. It could be that we accidently caught her as scum trying to be town.

But anyway...

Unvote, Vote Devastation

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

:

8am GMT June 26(?)

Devastation-7 (Stepho, Rock, Elmo, Naomi, Xtoxm, Tajo, Lamont)

Setael-6 (Pyro, Amished, Sironi, Devastation, Zwet, Dramonic)
Zwet-2 (Nyx, Pablo,)
Lamont-1 (Setael)

Not vig-voting scum:

Zazier

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

:

8am GMT June 26(?)

Devastation-8 (Stepho, Rock, Elmo, Naomi, Xtoxm, Tajo, Lamont, Setael)

Setael-6 (Pyro, Amished, Sironi, Devastation, Zwet, Dramonic)
Zwet-2 (Nyx, Pablo,)

Not vig-voting scum:

Zazier

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

I think its genuinely possible that Trilby is a safeclaim and she just didn't know how to make the role fit the flavor. In that case, there would be no CC.

[Lamont_Cranston]

unvote, vote Devestation

My flip as vanilla innocent will not be an excuse to hunt Setael. My question in itself is not an excuse to hunt Setael. The reason why I went after Setael was because of his stereotype aggressive mafia reactions, and you should have probably figured that out.

You claim vanilla innocent just like siro. So you'll get the same question from me. Do you deserve to be here ?

I'm still mid-thread here but I have found his play to be most unsatisfactory as of late. He has provided no defense when queried and no substance when attacking. It is a kind of active-lurking.

Self-voting & claiming Vanillager doesn't help it all.

[Lamont_Cranston]

This isn''t a very important post (Post 1196), but I do want to hear an answer from Lamont.

Why did you put all these VC''s into one post and what did you learn from it?

It was IOA in a desperate attempt to learn something after a terrible no-lynch. I did it in an attempt to possibly learn something and maybe give someone a chance to do the same.

The no-lynch really hurt us.

I found it useless but it IS there for the record.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I forgot in which post I found the following quote, but it was re-quoted by Lamont in post 1414:

Also, has anyone ever heard of a dr. that protects themself as well as a multitude of other people? Especially without a scum roleblocker? How is that balanced?

@Setael:

Do you see here how you could be falling into a scum trap by thinking this way? On the other hand, if you are correct, how do we explain Ho living an extra day??

So what is the explanation here??

If you think he''s scum, how can he be falling into a scum trap?

This was a scumhunting probe that was testing for a proper response. At the time of this post I was giving Set (who was looking scummy) a chance to respond properly and show herself town while at the same time viciously attacking her logic. The post basically would put her in a catch-22 and the only town move would be to admit that scum could purposely NOT RB Amished and that of course he would have to be Doc because

Ho

Elmo lived an extra day.

There are other alternative answers where she could come up with various other explanations to the two questions as well.

If she was town she would have the right answer. She dodged it for 2-3 days. When she finally answered it looked scummy at first but she eventually pointed out something that made the whole scum-trap theory look stupid and so I unvoted her.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Lamont. Would you accept a

vig: Stephoscope, Devestation

? That is, I'm voting Stepho, if Steph isn't killed at the deadline, switch my vote to Deve.

Sorry can't do that. Of course I don't run the vig votes the town does but I am doubting people would accept it.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Link?

Don't hold your breath.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

:

8am GMT June 26(?)

Devastation-9 (Stepho, Rock, Elmo, Naomi, Xtoxm, Tajo, Lamont, Setael, Devastation)

Setael-5 (Pyro, Amished, Sironi, Zwet, Dramonic)
Zwet-2 (Nyx, Pablo)
Stepho-2 (Zazier, Elmo)

Not vig-voting scum: _

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

What''s wrong with a vig-wagon against Stepho?

Nothing. I have posted that vote but the conditional "bot-like" request can't be honored.

[Lamont_Cranston]

If we are vigging to simple majority, Devastation appears to be at V-1.

[Lamont_Cranston]

@Zazier:

Can you explain how Stepho is scummier than Devastation?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

:

8am GMT June 26(?)

Devastation-8 (Stepho, Rock, Naomi, Xtoxm, Tajo, Lamont, Setael, Devastation)

Setael-5 (Pyro, Amished, Sironi, Zwet, Dramonic)
Zwet-2 (Nyx, Pablo)
Stepho-2 (Zazier, Elmo)

Not vig-voting scum: _

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

If we are vigging to simple majority, Devastation appears to be at V-1.

Ok sorry. Disregard this. Voting Tally error...

@Elmo:

Can you please explain in detail why you changed your vig-vote from Devastation to Stepho?

[Lamont_Cranston]

First of all, it''s possibly a vig kill. So I''d like to use it on a scummy active lurker.

I don't like this at all. I see this as a subtle attempt to devalue the info given to the town from the vig vote. Nobody can be allowed hide their vote in "I thought it only might go through" logic.

This IS a vig-vote period.

FoS Zazier

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

:

8am GMT June 26(?)

Devastation-8 (Stepho, Rock, Naomi, Xtoxm, Tajo, Lamont, Setael, Devastation)

Setael-4 (Amished, Sironi, Zwet, Dramonic)
Stepho-3 (Zazier, Elmo, Pyro)
Zwet-2 (Nyx, Pablo)

Not vig-voting scum: _

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

Information we would get from a Stepho-kill:

-Bandwagon analysis of both a lynch and a vig-kill.
-Suspicions towards Lamont and Naomi can be investigated.

Hmmm...

You know I HET vanilla-claimers & self-voters tho. If he contributes like this in the engame it will only hurt us.

[Lamont_Cranston]

You know I HET vanilla-claimers & self-voters tho. If he contributes like this in the engame it will only hurt us.

Objectively, this comes from town most of the time.

There is NO WAY to prove this. A vanilla claim is a perfect place to hide for scum and it is anti-town, helping the scum find the town PR's. If he self-votes he deserves to die as he is proving that he is of no help to the town.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

:

8am GMT June 26(?)

Devastation-7 (Stepho, Rock, Naomi, Tajo, Lamont, Setael, Devastation)

Setael-4 (Amished, Sironi, Zwet, Dramonic)
Stepho-4 (Zazier, Elmo, Pyro, Xtoxm)
Zwet-2 (Nyx, Pablo)

Not vig-voting scum: _

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

What Xtoxm said, basically. This is contingent on him (Dev) being helpful in the future.

Can you point to anywhere in this game where he has been helpful? If not, why would you expect otherwise?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

:

8am GMT June 26(?)

Devastation-8 (Stepho, Rock, Naomi, Tajo, Lamont, Setael, Devastation, Pablo)

Setael-4 (Amished, Sironi, Zwet, Dramonic)
Stepho-4 (Zazier, Elmo, Pyro, Xtoxm)
Zwet-1 (Nyx)

Not vig-voting scum: _

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

Ok this time Dev really is at V-1.

Oh and I forgot to add defense abandonment to the list...

[Lamont_Cranston]

EBWOP --> The V-1 is just a reference point. I don't think we've agreed to follow that convention with this vig.

[Lamont_Cranston]

What Xtoxm said, basically. This is contingent on him (Dev) being helpful in the future.

Can you point to anywhere in this game where he has been helpful? If not, why would you expect otherwise?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Lamont: To be honest, I'm too tired to look back at Dev's play now so I've only got the fuzzy impression that he wasn't contributing much, but I can hope that if he's town, he'll contribute more in the future. At minimum, being this close to a dayvig should serve as motivation.

I don't mind adjusting the deadline, but I would point out we haven't talked much about who to lynch and Day 2 ends in 13 days.

You could ISO him.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Me thinks its time to evaluate the deadline. Not like its a fixed one, it is?

Someone whats the case on Steph? Ill skim him and analyse him.

Stalling on the vig vote is not the best imo. I think we're going to have to firm it up and work the wagons in place at that time.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I would point out we haven't talked much about who to lynch and Day 2 ends in 13 days.

^^^ No vig-stalling for this reason.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

:

8am GMT June 26...

Devastation-8 (Stepho, Rock, Naomi, Xtoxm, Tajo, Lamont, Setael, Devastation)

Stepho-4 (Zazier, Elmo, Pyro, Sironi)
Setael-3 (Amished, Zwet, Dramonic)
Zwet-2 (Nyx, Pablo)

Not vig-voting scum: _

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

Well you

did

forget to mention that he failed to vote D1 & we practically had to drag him kicking and screaming to a vig vote...

And you also conveniently forget to mention how he slef-voted, claimed vanilla and committed atrocious defense abandonment.

He definitely deserves the rope...

[Lamont_Cranston]

Well you

did

forget to mention that he failed to vote D1 & we practically had to drag him kicking and screaming to a vig vote...

Anti-town behaviour. This doesn''t make him scum. And if this is so bad, what about Naomi?

Naomi can't be vigged bc amished said he protected her...

And you also conveniently forget to mention how he slef-voted, claimed vanilla and committed atrocious defense abandonment.

Since when are the first two scummy? I don''t know what you mean with the third

Claiming vanilla is potentially a very scummy thing to do. Scum will hide in vanilla all day long. Self-voting can also be a scum technique to do the same as can defense abandonment but that charge no longer holds against him...

He definitely deserves the rope...

Rope is lynch, not vig-kill. So state why the vig-kill should be used against Deves, while players want to use the results of the vig-kill for the lynch. Wouldn''t Stepho be a better vig-kill then?

I understand your case for Stepho providing alot of info but frankly, there is alot of info to be gained regardless of who we vig... Gosh durn it, Devastation had better post that top 3 scummy list...

Ok, Stepho is lurking whey harder here than Devastation and of late Stepho has been of even less help. I also totally buy your more info argument (even though no matter who we vig we get info).

Unvote, Vote Stepho

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

:

June 26...

Devastation-7 (Stepho, Rock, Naomi, Xtoxm, Tajo, Setael, Devastation)

Stepho-5 (Zazier, Elmo, Pyro, Sironi, Lamont)
Setael-3 (Amished, Zwet, Dramonic)
Zwet-2 (Nyx, Pablo)

Not vig-voting scum: _

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

My point was that she has done the same. Yet, nobody commented on her about it. Secondly, she''s possibly immune to the vig-kill, but not to the lynch. So, that''s not a valid argument.

Your point was about the vig-vote too.

The thing is, the first two can also be done by townies. To use the first against somebody, is very weak. There are more town than scum. How do you know which claim is from town and which from scum? Most of the time, you don''t. So I don''t like it that it''s used against somebody.
The selfvote is anti-town as it gives town less information. But once again, both scum and town do it. So to use this as an argument, you should first show that his selfvote was for a scum reason and not as frustrated town.
The third is indeed scummy, if it can be proven that he has actually seen of which he got accused. So that needs to be checked.

I don't care if town do it too. That's not my point and a bad reason not to vig/lynch somebody nor is it my entire argument, just things you forgot to point out.

Not really true. With some vig kills we''ll learn a lot, and with some just a bit. Comparing Stepho and Deves, I think that a vigkill against Stepho would give us more information.
But I agree with the last part of your paragraph.

Ya and I agree Stepho needs to start talking more because right now he is less valuable than even Deves is.

One thing bothers me about this Stepho wagon. He came out so strongly against Naomi. I really think this makes him town because she is obviously lying.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

:

June 28...

Devastation-7 (Stepho, Rock, Naomi, Tajo, Setael, Devastation, Pablo)

Stepho-6 (Zazier, Elmo, Pyro, Xtoxm, Sironi, Lamont)
Setael-3 (Amished, Zwet, Dramonic)
Zwet-1 (Nyx)

Not vig-voting scum: _

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

My point was that she has done the same. Yet, nobody commented on her about it. Secondly, she''s possibly immune to the vig-kill, but not to the lynch. So, that''s not a valid argument.

Your point was about the vig-vote too.

No. I said that Deves had done two scummy things, and compared it to what Stepho had done. What you pointed out were things that are all included in anti-town behaviour. Anti-town behaviour isn''t the same as scummy behaviour.

Right but its part of the case which you left out which was my point.

The thing is, the first two can also be done by townies. To use the first against somebody, is very weak. There are more town than scum. How do you know which claim is from town and which from scum? Most of the time, you don''t. So I don''t like it that it''s used against somebody.
The selfvote is anti-town as it gives town less information. But once again, both scum and town do it. So to use this as an argument, you should first show that his selfvote was for a scum reason and not as frustrated town.
The third is indeed scummy, if it can be proven that he has actually seen of which he got accused. So that needs to be checked.

I don't care if town do it too. That's not my point and a bad reason not to vig/lynch somebody nor is it my entire argument, just things you forgot to point out.

Once again, as said, the first two are included in anti-town behaviour, which isn''t the same as scummy. The third, depends on the context

Wrong! It is part of the entire picture which needs to be examined.

Not really true. With some vig kills we''ll learn a lot, and with some just a bit. Comparing Stepho and Deves, I think that a vigkill against Stepho would give us more information.
But I agree with the last part of your paragraph.

Ya and I agree Stepho needs to start talking more because right now he is less valuable than even Deves is.

One thing bothers me about this Stepho wagon. He came out so strongly against Naomi. I really think this makes him town because she is obviously lying.

If you think he''s town, then why are you vig-voting him???

Because he is heavily lurking and his case needs to be explored. Part of that case revolves around Naomi. We can discuss this now as well. Two competing wagons is very helpful to the town.

One thing bothers me about this Stepho wagon. He came out so strongly against Naomi. I really think this makes him town because she is obviously lying.

[Lamont_Cranston]

He now thinks naomi is town.

@Stepho:

You think she's town now?

[Lamont_Cranston]

I believe Setael and Naomi to be town, and Devestation and Lamont to be scum.

1688

[Lamont_Cranston]

I believe Setael and Naomi to be town, and Devestation and Lamont to be scum.

1688

[Lamont_Cranston]

I think you make some valid points about

false cases that would originate from scum

.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I am now almost positive that Naomi's claim is legitimate. Anyone who wants to say I'm scummy for *changing my mind based on analysis of information that is available* had better be able to explain.

I have clearly explained how Naomi is lying here. It is for you to explain what this "new info" is that suddenly brought you to change your mind.

[Lamont_Cranston]

The lack of a counter claim,

plus the comments from Naomi and the mod today

, are all in line with an honest townie who just happened to roleclaim really poorly.

1) If Trilby is a safe claim there would be no CC
2) What does, "plus the comments from Naomi and the mod today" mean?

[Lamont_Cranston]

One thing bothers me about this Stepho wagon. He came out so strongly against Naomi. I really think this makes him town because she is obviously lying.

May I ask what your opinion of Naomi would be if Stepho flips scum?

Zaze, I'm glad you brought that up because I think that really needs to be explored. I'm going to go right now and examine the EOD1 and see if there is any way this could be a bus...



Thanks for reminding me.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Doesnt it make more sense to you that Naomi should be the one dying first?

Yes.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Why do you think Steph needs to die if he believes Naomi claim?

Researching...

[Lamont_Cranston]

Well, my research has proven that BOTH Naomi & Stepho cannot be scum.

It is because of:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 58#1697158 post #985 -- Third votecount with 32 hours left -- NAOMI now leads the pack with 7 votes.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 63#1697363 post #989 -- Stepho votes Naomi out of the blue for no reason and puts her at L-2

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 80#1697480 post #1020 -- Stepho now attacks Naomi for her claim which justifies his earlier vote before her claim

There was no reason for Stepho to vote Naomi

before

she "claimed" but he did so and put her at L-2. No scum will do that to another for no reason.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I have reviewed both:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 54#1696354 post #931 -- Set's case against Stepho. Amazing how the two top wagons mirror this.

and

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 92#1693592 post #842 -- Replacement's case against Stepho very interesting posts that follow

There is a strong case for Stepho here. If Stepho flips scum, Naomi is cleared.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

:

June 29

Devastation-7 (Stepho, Rock, Naomi, Tajo, Setael, Devastation, Pablo)

Stepho-6 (Zazier, Elmo, Pyro, Xtoxm, Sironi, Lamont)
Setael-3 (Amished, Zwet, Dramonic)
Zwet-1 (Nyx)

Not vig-voting scum: _

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

Well, my research has proven that BOTH Naomi & Stepho cannot be scum.

It is because of:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 58#1697158 post #985 -- Third votecount with 32 hours left -- NAOMI now leads the pack with 7 votes.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 63#1697363 post #989 -- Stepho votes Naomi out of the blue for no reason and puts her at L-2

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 80#1697480 post #1020 -- Stepho now attacks Naomi for her claim which justifies his earlier vote before her claim

There was no reason for Stepho to vote Naomi

before

she "claimed" but he did so and put her at L-2. No scum will do that to another for no reason.

It was clear naomi was going to lynched that day. Bussing.

The only reason I can even consider what you are saying here is because there was significant voting pressure on Stepho -- but what you say in the next post blows my argument out of the water:

Also lamont, different factions.

QFT.

My vote stays with Stepho then.

[Lamont_Cranston]

V/LA until Monday.

Didn't want to do this but have too, will be reading

( phone )

but can't post until then.

When Nyx gets back, someone is going to get shot...

[Lamont_Cranston]

I have reviewed both:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 54#1696354 post #931 -- Set's case against Stepho. Amazing how the two top wagons mirror this.

and

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 92#1693592 post #842 -- Replacement's case against Stepho very interesting posts that follow

There is a strong case for Stepho here.

If Stepho flips scum, Naomi is cleared

.

/fixed

[Lamont_Cranston]

I think Stepho is refering to post 1206...
Where KoC explains why, as he put it ...allowed players with less than normal experience to participate in this game...

Well the theory isn't that players would have less than normal experience

alone

but that players

as scum

would have less than normal experience.

if a player normally seems intelligent as a person, it can be reasonably expected that they know how to properly read a role PM.

Instead it looks like their "role pm" might of read something along the lines of: "The following safe claim is available to you: Trilby"

The main reason for this is that the "flavor" provided with the Trilby claim totally contradicts the the R/L game that

this

game is based on...

[Lamont_Cranston]

Also lamont, different factions.

What was this aimed at?

Would you like me to answer this?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Also lamont, different factions.

What was this aimed at?

Lamont, who said that Naomi was cleared if stepho was scum.

Oh, whoops. Yes I concur and have changed my opinion there as you can see from my previous posts.

[Lamont_Cranston]

@Lamont

What''s your opinion at this moment:
A Stepho-town, Naomi-town
B Stepho-scum, Naomi-town
C Stepho-town, Naomi-scum
D Stepho-scum, Naomi-scum
E Something else

and why?

I'm leaning towards D or C.

We don't have much to go on due to a lack of a D1 lynch but the case against Stepho is the strongest.

I have gone into great detail already as to why I think Naomi is scum. It is a very long list of things but it can be summed up with the following:

Nothing she has said in relation to her claim has made any sense.

[Lamont_Cranston]

So if Trilby is a "safeclaim", that means that Trilby is not actually a role in the game? I find that idea absurd.

Naomi is Trilby. Lamont is obvscum--and that's not OMGUS, that's noting that he thinks I should be shot just because I changed my mind about something and he supposedly doesn't agree.

To anyone who has not yet voted: there is likely several scum already on my wagon, and there will be one more once Devestation inevitably switches his vig vote to me. Please make the right choice.

There is an entire case against you made by Set & The Replacement which I have reviewed. You can see my links to them both.

I don't think you should of changed your mind about Naomi though.

[Lamont_Cranston]

And Lamont still can't explain how changing my mind is supposedly a scumtell.

Its just something I disagree with at this point. You are correct that it cannot be a scum tell because we are apparently dealing with two mafi factions in this game. That allows for both you and Naomi to be scum, each in a different faction. The only thing I can be certain of is that you both cannot be scum in the

same

faction.

[Lamont_Cranston]

And you (Stepho) still haven''t explained what comments have made you think that Naomi''s claim is true.

Naomi's entire body of work and the mod's 1206, along with the lack of a counterclaim with apparent protection available.

I think with

Ho

Elmo

Hohum living an extra day along with Amished's protection promise should be enough to bring the CC.

We still might get a CC but,

nothing that Naomi has said makes her likely to actually be Trilby and what the Mod has said does not prove she isn't scum.

Logically, since the bolded statement is true then without a CC Trilby must be a safe claim.

[Lamont_Cranston]

And Lamont still can't explain how changing my mind is supposedly a scumtell.

Its just something I disagree with at this point. You are correct that it cannot be a scum tell because we are apparently dealing with two mafi factions in this game. That allows for both you and Naomi to be scum, each in a different faction. The only thing I can be certain of is that you both cannot be scum in the

same

faction.

Wait. Two mafia factions?

Yes this is the theory. I'll go back and get the N1 kills but there are clearly two seperate killing entities very clearly described.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I don't feel any need to waste more time explaining my thoughts on Naomi, given that she is apparently not a candidate for vig or lynch.

wat

She doesn't have votes for the vig, and I tend to believe she is protected. I didn't realize she had a couple votes for the lynch, and I will certainly step in and defend her if need be...but I still really don't want to talk about the lynch until we know what the vig results are.

If it's clear I'm going to be vigged, of course, I will do my best to help the town beforehand (while simultaneously trying to save myself--it'd be a mistake)

She is the most likely lynch candidate. She would already be vigged is she could be.

I would of pushed her vig mercilessly if I could have.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Sironi
Dramonic
Stepho
Rockta
Naomi
Devastation

I'm not saying everyone on this list is scum but these are the people I would be focusing on.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Bleh, basically I see it this way:

We have to vig as soon as possible. Lynch deadline is close. Pretty clear that Dev and Steph are the top candidates and that one of them has to go today.

Im leaning to go with Dev here (see previous posts for analysis) but really the important thing here is to stop stalling. Both are already very very informational lynches regardless of alignment. We also have the bonus information of competing wagons.

For example,

If Dev is town, then its more probable that there is scum in his wagon.

If Dev is scum, then its more probable that there is scum out his wagon.

The same can be said about Steph. The thing is that we need to have that information now.

Awesome post. The best I think we can do is vig on Monday then nyx gets back.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

:

June 29

Devastation-7 (Stepho, Rock, Naomi, Tajo, Setael, Devastation, Pablo)

Stepho-6 (Zazier, Elmo, Pyro, Xtoxm, Sironi, Lamont)
Setael-3 (Amished, Zwet, Dramonic)
Zwet-1 (Nyx)

Not vig-voting scum: _

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

And Lamont still can't explain how changing my mind is supposedly a scumtell.

Its just something I disagree with at this point. You are correct that it cannot be a scum tell because we are apparently dealing with two mafi factions in this game. That allows for both you and Naomi to be scum, each in a different faction. The only thing I can be certain of is that you both cannot be scum in the

same

faction.

Wait. Two mafia factions?

Yes this is the theory. I'll go back and get the N1 kills but there are clearly two seperate killing entities very clearly described.

Which could also mean a SK or a vig, instead of a second mafia group.
So why do you assume two mafia groups?

Well because the way they were described apparently fits the game as two evil factions. I am not familiar with the tall man. I only played the first two games. It just seems to fit the natural appearance of things.

Oh, and there is this thing that Amish talked about this Order of the Agonies or some such thing...

The question is, how are we to know? The only way to know for sure is if there is a cross kill I guess...

I would prefer it if there were NOT two factions because it would make things much easier on us to root out the scum. With that in mind, it does also make sense since we know the Mod wants to make it tough on us...

[Lamont_Cranston]

@Set:

Well, I see Devastation's defense as "I'm lazy" and so he lurks in the open.

I see Stepho's defense as "My life got busy".

There was a strong case against Stepho D1 by not only you but by The Replacement too. I see that case as stronger than any against Dev.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I just read ALL Stepho's posts from his profile. He was DEFINITELY lurking in this game; i.e. posting in other games and not posting here.

Check it out yourself:

1) ISO Stepho
2) Hit "Profile"
3) Click the small link "View all posts by Stepho"

You can see him posting on Wednesday 24th all over the place but no "Chzo Mafia"...

This makes his "I got busy" defense alot of horsecrap.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Quick Link To All Of Stepho's Posts

[Lamont_Cranston]

Checking...

[Lamont_Cranston]

Wow weird. Sorry about that. I had just woke up -- I don't see how I missed that. It was clear as day you were posting here.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Since I screwed up, I might as well post something decent.

Here is Set's D1 case against Stepho (scum-like self-awareness):

As for Stephoscope, he's playing with the kind of self-awareness usually seen only in scum. He's very careful of what he says, and has made statements like:

I made sure to credit Amished for the catch.

if I were trying to get away with something, I would not have announced it and then have suspicions such as yours come up.

Now here is the Replacement's same argument:

I was really just kidding about the box. I didn't expect it to be a "real" item, just figured it was worth a try.

Why did you think it was okay to lead people on that you had the box?

As for withholding my vote...we have plenty of time, why vote until we have all the information (i.e. what the drink did and who was affected by it)? Although I think eventually I gave in once Lamont wouldn't answer the question about the devil smiley.

Voting is one of the best ways to hold people accountable for their suspcions. If you aren't going to vote at all during the entire beginning of the day we can't be sure of your suspicions and it's a good way for a scum player to sit back and wait until there's a wagon vote that they like and put their vote there or make a vote based on the general opinions of the town, making you appear less accountable overall for your vote when you do put it somewhere and making it so other players can build a case so that you do need to.

Vote: Stephoscope

While you make some good points here about voting and why scum would be reluctant to do it, I have already placed my vote and explained exactly why...so don't accuse me of wanting to sit back and wait for a wagon, because that's not what I did.

It's exactly what you did. There were already five votes on Lamont_Craston when yours finally came around to land on him and the reason you gave wasn't even your own reason, you took what someone else found and used that as the basis for your vote.

I just wanted to make sure we figured out what was going on with the drink before we complicated things with voting...and I wanted to make sure our eventual lynch would be an informed one, with the knowledge of what (if anything) the drink had done.

Voting and lynching are the primary functions of the town. Delaying that function is bad because it can lead to a rushed and less than optimal decisions as deadlines approach.

Well, whether or not you agreed with my thinking (and you do make some good points), you might try being suspicious of people who withheld their votes or were wishy-washy about them

without clearly explaining themselves every step of the way

like I did, but whatever.

On the contrary, I find you more suspicious because of your explanations and reasons that you give. The fact that you stated on more than one occasion that it was your intention not to vote until something specific had passed is what I find scummy. Unless you thought it would be impossible to form suspicions until after, I see no reason why you would declare that you wouldn't be voting. No one else claimed that they wouldn't be voting like you did.

There. I feel better now.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

:

June 29

Devastation-7 (Stepho, Rock, Naomi, Tajo, Setael, Devastation, Pablo)

Stepho-6 (Zazier, Elmo, Pyro, Xtoxm, Sironi, Lamont)
Setael-3 (Amished, Zwet, Dramonic)
Zwet-1 (Nyx)

Not vig-voting scum: _

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

:

June 29

Devastation-6 (Stepho, Rock, Naomi, Tajo, Setael, Pablo)

Stepho-6 (Zazier, Elmo, Pyro, Xtoxm, Sironi, Lamont)

Setael-3 (Amished, Zwet, Dramonic)
Zwet-1 (Nyx)

Not vig-voting scum:

Devastation

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

Nyx is also going to re-vote before he does the vig...

[Lamont_Cranston]

Ok I want to be on record.

I do not like this situation at all.

The following people are stalling: Nyx, Amished, Zwet, Dramonic

The worst here is Nyx. If we don't hear from him soon I am going to give him +scum points for trying to encourage a bad D2 lynch (or even a D2 NL).

[Lamont_Cranston]

Ooops, and I forgot Devastation who

again

is not voting...

[Lamont_Cranston]

^^^ wat he sed

[Lamont_Cranston]

Unvote, Vote Nyx

[Lamont_Cranston]

V/LA until Monday.

Didn't want to do this but have too, will be reading

( phone )

but can't post until then.

Hello its Monday...

[Lamont_Cranston]

I suggest everybody vote for Nyx...

[Lamont_Cranston]

I think he is a scum lurker who is lurking on purpose to hurt the town. Lynching scum WILL help.

Confirm Vote Nyx

[Lamont_Cranston]

Wat are the chances someone gets a town vig item and just

happens

to go VLA right when the dealine is approaching with "connection issues"??

How much is the town being hurt by this!?

I wish I had 9 more votes right now!

[Lamont_Cranston]

Its still monday, give him 1 more day. After that we can rope him.

There is no harm having his lynch votes in place starting now. Remember giving HIM one more day is giveing the town one LESS day.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Its still monday, give him 1 more day. After that we can rope him.

There is no harm having his lynch votes in place starting now. Remember giving HIM one more day is giveing the town one LESS day.

In case you didn't understand what I meant:

Please vote Nyx NOW.

Also, where is your vig vote Devastation?

[Lamont_Cranston]

I'm also asking why everyone isn't voting Nyx right this very moment NOW NOW NOW!?

[Lamont_Cranston]

I'm also asking why everyone isn't voting Nyx right this very moment NOW NOW NOW!?

Because it''s possible that

RL is keeping him up

he's stalling and hurting the town I just haven't typed my vote in yet.

/fixed

[Lamont_Cranston]

He needs to be like at L-5 or L-4 like NAO.

[Lamont_Cranston]

• 

Why a prod instead of at least L5?? This isn't kiddie-time anymore. He is deliberately hurting the town. I don't buy his "coincidental" VLA and besides ITS OVER, WHERE THE HECK IS HE!? I say he needs to be approaching the gallows NAO!!!!!

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

:

June 29

Stepho-7 (Zazier, Elmo, Pyro, Xtoxm, Sironi, Lamont, Devastation)

Devastation-6 (Stepho, Rock, Naomi, Tajo, Setael, Pablo)
Setael-3 (Amished, Zwet, Dramonic)
Zwet-1 (Nyx)

Not vig-voting scum:

Devastation

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

"since we don't know why your around." should be "Since we dont know why Nyx is not around".

I have lots of memory lapses like that.

Devastation, "too eager"?? Did you read the Mod's note?? You didn't even vote yesterday!!

(sigh) counts to 10...

Are you trying to tell me you don't understand how important it is that we have time to properly discuss our D2 lynch?

The fact is he SAID he would be here and he isn't. He knew we had a vig vote and I don't buy it for a second that he has access issues. This is a deliberate stalling technique and we ALL need to be ringing his stalling carcass up to L5 IMMEDIATELY.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I'm also asking why everyone isn't voting Nyx right this very moment NOW NOW NOW!?

Because it''s possible that

RL is keeping him up

he's stalling and hurting the town I just haven't typed my vote in yet.

/fixed

He''s indeed stalling, but that''s probably due to some RL issues. Either way, it''s not possible to check this.
So I''m not gonna vote him for that reason.

I don't consider this a pro-town sentiment.

FoS Zazier

[Lamont_Cranston]

Because you are enabling his stalling.

[Lamont_Cranston]

"since we don't know why your around." should be "Since we dont know why Nyx is not around".

I have lots of memory lapses like that.

Devastation, "too eager"?? Did you read the Mod's note?? You didn't even vote yesterday!!

(sigh) counts to 10...

Are you trying to tell me you don't understand how important it is that we have time to properly discuss our D2 lynch?

The fact is he SAID he would be here and he isn't. He knew we had a vig vote and I don't buy it for a second that he has access issues. This is a deliberate stalling technique and we ALL need to be ringing his stalling carcass up to L5 IMMEDIATELY.

What happened to your suspicions of Naomi?

That is not on the table for discussion at this moment. Right now we have a LIFE OR DEATH town issue we need resolved IMMEDIATELY.

[Lamont_Cranston]

No you don't get it. You can't prove it isn't and the odds are it IS. Tell me what the odds are of somebody going VLA EXACTLY at the time we need a vig vote and then staying away beyond the VLA period??

I mean CMON -- step into a public library for 2 minutes and freaking type something!

Why are you resisting the standard tactic of voting lurkers especially now when the town DESPERATElY needs him here??

This is why your lack of action is anti-town.

[Lamont_Cranston]

"since we don't know why your around." should be "Since we dont know why Nyx is not around".

I have lots of memory lapses like that.

Devastation, "too eager"?? Did you read the Mod's note?? You didn't even vote yesterday!!

(sigh) counts to 10...

Are you trying to tell me you don't understand how important it is that we have time to properly discuss our D2 lynch?

The fact is he SAID he would be here and he isn't. He knew we had a vig vote and I don't buy it for a second that he has access issues. This is a deliberate stalling technique and we ALL need to be ringing his stalling carcass up to L5 IMMEDIATELY.

What happened to your suspicions of Naomi?

That is not on the table for discussion at this moment. Right now we have a LIFE OR DEATH town issue we need resolved IMMEDIATELY.

You want Naomi dead. So why aren''t you trying to get her lynched?
Just bring it up on the table again.

Now I'm RERALLY starting to suspect you. NO I won't bring it up again. Instead I'm bringing up the fact that you and Nyx are stalling together. Explain that.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I don't agree with your lurker policy. You can clearly see that by checking my wiki with the link provided.

You have avoided the tremendous coincidence this all is and how the odds are against his VLA claim being genuine because of that.

I hold that he clearly and deliberately stalled right out in the open and you are helping him by advocating for him while he does it.

This is an issue of such importance it would require you to forsake your lurker policy to vote him

if you were town.

[Lamont_Cranston]

"since we don't know why your around." should be "Since we dont know why Nyx is not around".

I have lots of memory lapses like that.

Devastation, "too eager"?? Did you read the Mod's note?? You didn't even vote yesterday!!

(sigh) counts to 10...

Are you trying to tell me you don't understand how important it is that we have time to properly discuss our D2 lynch?

The fact is he SAID he would be here and he isn't. He knew we had a vig vote and I don't buy it for a second that he has access issues. This is a deliberate stalling technique and we ALL need to be ringing his stalling carcass up to L5 IMMEDIATELY.

What happened to your suspicions of Naomi?

That is not on the table for discussion at this moment. Right now we have a LIFE OR DEATH town issue we need resolved IMMEDIATELY.

You want Naomi dead. So why aren''t you trying to get her lynched?
Just bring it up on the table again.

Now I'm RERALLY starting to suspect you. NO I won't bring it up again. Instead I'm bringing up the fact that you and Nyx are stalling together. Explain that.

Or I believe that you''re using a crap argument. This reason to vote Nyx is bad. I''m not convinced, and when ever that is the case, I''ll do anything to stop the lynch from happening.
As for you not wanting to bring up Naomi, that is noted. Because ever since the end of day 1, you''ve tried to get her lynched. And when Stepho announced that he believed her claim, your responses were telling enough. The fact that you now don''t want to discuss it, needs an explanation.

Stop trying to sidetrack the issue. The only thing that needs an explanation is your trying to change the subject when the town needs Nyx back NOW. There is NOTHING wrong with putting him at L5 where he needs to be but you are fighting it tooth and nail and THAT is what needs explaining.

[Lamont_Cranston]

@Zazier:

What day is it in the Netherlands?