Mini 788 - Fantasy Mafia [OVER]

[ortolan]

Empking isn't a bad player and I can already vouch for his towniness 100%

Starbuck- no, there is no reason for him to be particularly likely to be scum, beyond my own whim.

[Sudo_Nym]

Empking isn't a bad player and I can already vouch for his towniness 100%

Starbuck- no, there is no reason for him to be particularly likely to be scum, beyond my own whim.

To quote the philosophers, pffft.

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote; Mix

Wants a QL but won't come out and say it and isn't obv town.

[Kmd4390]

Empking isn't a bad player and I can already vouch for his towniness 100%

Ok, I know this is intentional. You are after Sudo for no reason and you call Empking "100%" town. The only time I've seen you defend Emp like this was in Past Ages where you were scum.

Why are you being intentionally scummy?

[Sudo_Nym]

Empking isn't a bad player and I can already vouch for his towniness 100%

Ok, I know this is intentional. You are after Sudo for no reason and you call Empking "100%" town. The only time I've seen you defend Emp like this was in Past Ages where you were scum.

Why are you being intentionally scummy?

QFT.

Vote Ortolan

some more.

[Mixologist]

I'm glad my attempt at humor was not lost on all. I was hoping more people would respond so I could gauge some reactions on that. However, all I got was an OMGUS vote by Empking. Guess that will have to do.

[SensFan]

ortolan - 3 (Sudo, Shadow, Mixologist)
Andycyca - 2 (KMD, Tony)
TonyMontana - 2 (xofelf, Goat)
Sudo_Nym - 1 (ortolan)
Mixologist - 1 (Empking)

Not voting - 3 (Andy, orangepenguin, Starbuck)

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch!

[Andycyca]

Empking isn't a bad player and I can already vouch for his towniness 100%

Starbuck- no, there is no reason for him to be particularly likely to be scum, beyond my own whim.

Please, I think we've already gone through the silly discussion phase.

Vote: Ortolan

[Starbuck]

Empking isn't a bad player and I can already vouch for his towniness 100%

Starbuck- no, there is no reason for him to be particularly likely to be scum, beyond my own whim.

Please, I think we've already gone through the silly discussion phase

I would hope so.

[ortolan]

I am not being "intentionally" scummy so to speak, I was/am merely trying a new approach to the opening game.

I undertook a course of behaviour which is nonsensical, but not clearly pro-town or pro-scum- calling for quicklynches of random players is inherently neutral and, probabilistically, is as likely to hit scum as any other form of non-specific pressure.

I was looking for

1) the target's own reaction to being wagoned (not as important)

2) people who deliberately ignore my actions even though they are quite attention-drawing

3) people who react badly to my inherently neutral actions, especially those providing inconsistent justifications for doing so.

Empking loves easy wagons as scum but at least took the time to question my course of action before laying down a vote; ergo: pro-town.

Sudo_Nym's reaction is a predictable OMGUS but his reaction in 54 is nonsensical. Someone being "deliberately scummy" (although I actually disagree with this characterisation itself) is very rarely a good reason to lynch them.

FoS: Sudo_Nym

My vote however, is reserved for Andycya, who despite apparently making his own joke vote in 24 (well that's what he described it as after the fact), now says:

Empking isn't a bad player and I can already vouch for his towniness 100%

Starbuck- no, there is no reason for him to be particularly likely to be scum, beyond my own whim.

Please, I think we've already gone through the silly discussion phase.

Vote: Ortolan

Basically implying that apparently nonsensical behaviour (although mine had an underlying purpose) does not even deserve discourse, and should be attacked with a vote without any justification.

Unvote
Vote: Andycya

[Goatrevolt]

Unvote, Vote Andycyca

You explained your earlier vote on me as a joke vote, even though it looked like a serious post. I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on it, because internet sarcasm can be tough to pick up on. However, now you say that the random phase is silly and give the impression that you find it to be pointless. I'd say either your earlier vote was serious and you just explained it away as a joke (which fits with your distaste of the RVS), or your earlier post really was a joke and your ortolan vote now is just really hypocritical. Either way, it's scummy.

[Empking]

Uunvote

Vote: Goat

Looks like bandwagon jumping for a bad reasons.

[Sudo_Nym]

Sudo_Nym's reaction is a predictable OMGUS but his reaction in 54 is nonsensical. Someone being "deliberately scummy" (although I actually disagree with this characterisation itself) is very rarely a good reason to lynch them. FoS: Sudo_Nym

I was already voting you, I think. No matter. My vote on you has more to do with my belief that your actions made you a good opening bandwagon than any "deliberate scummyness" you have. It usually takes more than the random stage to determine if someone is really being scummy or what.

[ortolan]

define "good opening bandwagon"

[Sudo_Nym]

define "good opening bandwagon"

The opposite of a bad opening bandwagon.

[Goatrevolt]

Uunvote

Vote: Goat

Looks like bandwagon jumping for a bad reasons.

Predictable. Feel free to refute my reasoning if you believe it to be bad.

[Starbuck]

Are we sure we should be going for ort and not Emp?

[Empking]

Uunvote

Vote: Goat

Looks like bandwagon jumping for a bad reasons.

Predictable. Feel free to refute my reasoning if you believe it to be bad.

Being hypocritical is a character trait, not a scum tell.

[Goatrevolt]

Uunvote

Vote: Goat

Looks like bandwagon jumping for a bad reasons.

Predictable. Feel free to refute my reasoning if you believe it to be bad.

Being hypocritical is a character trait, not a scum tell.

It's a character trait, alright...a character trait of people who have the alignment: Scum.

I'll admit, hypocrisy is not the biggest tell in the book, but it can certainly be reflective of scum. Townies act in a way they deem to benefit the town. So they have little reason to accuse others of being scum for acting in that same manner (a manner they consider pro-town). On the other hand, scum are acting to benefit their nefarious ends, and will sometimes demonstrate hypocrisy in attacking something that they themselves are guilty of, for a variety of reasons (as a reason to join a wagon, because they weren't at their "towniest" at some point).

I'm curious, though. Why do you say it's a character trait? Do some people just have the "hypocrisy gene" and others don't?

[Goatrevolt]

Are we sure we should be going for ort and not Emp?

Why do you think we should be going for Emp?

[Starbuck]

Are we sure we should be going for ort and not Emp?

Why do you think we should be going for Emp?

It was just a question. I'm not sure which way we should be going as I have never played with any of you before. I don't know how you play when you are scum or when you are townie, and the same for everyone else.

[Empking]

Uunvote

Vote: Goat

Looks like bandwagon jumping for a bad reasons.

Predictable. Feel free to refute my reasoning if you believe it to be bad.

Being hypocritical is a character trait, not a scum tell.

It's a character trait, alright...a character trait of people who have the alignment: Scum.

I'll admit, hypocrisy is not the biggest tell in the book, but it can certainly be reflective of scum. Townies act in a way they deem to benefit the town. So they have little reason to accuse others of being scum for acting in that same manner (a manner they consider pro-town). On the other hand, scum are acting to benefit their nefarious ends, and will sometimes demonstrate hypocrisy in attacking something that they themselves are guilty of, for a variety of reasons (as a reason to join a wagon, because they weren't at their "towniest" at some point).

I'm curious, though. Why do you say it's a character trait? Do some people just have the "hypocrisy gene" and others don't?

I can see your point.

Unvote

I don't think its down to genes though.

[Sudo_Nym]

Uunvote

Vote: Goat

Looks like bandwagon jumping for a bad reasons.

Predictable. Feel free to refute my reasoning if you believe it to be bad.

Being hypocritical is a character trait, not a scum tell.

It's a character trait, alright...a character trait of people who have the alignment: Scum.

I'll admit, hypocrisy is not the biggest tell in the book, but it can certainly be reflective of scum. Townies act in a way they deem to benefit the town. So they have little reason to accuse others of being scum for acting in that same manner (a manner they consider pro-town). On the other hand, scum are acting to benefit their nefarious ends, and will sometimes demonstrate hypocrisy in attacking something that they themselves are guilty of, for a variety of reasons (as a reason to join a wagon, because they weren't at their "towniest" at some point).

I'm curious, though. Why do you say it's a character trait? Do some people just have the "hypocrisy gene" and others don't?

While wonderful in the sense of theory, I'm not sure it really works out that clean. Townies try to act in a manner that benefits the town, but there's not really a consensus on what consitutes a townie action, so what seems like a good townie move to the player making it could easily look scummy to another. So how do you judge hypocrisy on a person's actions, if the motives are potential extremely different for a non-obvious reason?

[Kmd4390]

Are we sure we should be going for ort and not Emp?

Why do you think we should be going for Emp?

It was just a question. I'm not sure which way we should be going as I have never played with any of you before. I don't know how you play when you are scum or when you are townie, and the same for everyone else.

Is meta required in mafia? What are your reads right now?

(By the way, I don't see Emp as scum right now.)

[Mixologist]

unvote

Ortolan's opening behavior, after re-reading, comes across more as trying to attract responses. Which it apparently has. I'm not willing to vote Andy at this point yet though. Would like to see how he responds.

@Mod- Can we get prods on our MIA's?