Game Ethics/Tactics: Faking V/LA

[SensFan]

If V/LA can be faked then there is no point in having V/LA.

That is all.

V/LA is meaningless unless it's confirmed by the mod.

So the V/LA threadis just a means for people to exploit this "loophole"?

V/LA serves an important purpose. People that abuse it aredoing a serious disservice to the game.

What's the difference between the following?

*"I'll be busy this weekend, don't expect much, if anything."
*"I am V/LA until Sunday afternoon"
*(on Sunday)"Sorry, I had a busy weekend, and couldn't post much"

Which are Scum allowed to do?
Which are Scum not allowed to do?

[SensFan]

No it isnt. If I'm going to be on V/LA for a while, then I PM the mod or post in thread. Whenever you PM the mod, they post in the thread that soandso is going to be V/LA so everyone knows.'

edit: this was in response to sens, not shaft.

I'm not going to PM the mod, I'll post in-thread.

Whether I'm lying, or not, I mean.

[shaft.ed]

If V/LA can be faked then there is no point in having V/LA.

That is all.

V/LA is meaningless unless it's confirmed by the mod.

So the V/LA threadis just a means for people to exploit this "loophole"?

V/LA serves an important purpose. People that abuse it aredoing a serious disservice to the game.

What's the difference between the following?

*"I'll be busy this weekend, don't expect much, if anything."
*"I am V/LA until Sunday afternoon"
*(on Sunday)"Sorry, I had a busy weekend, and couldn't post much"

Which are Scum allowed to do?
Which are Scum not allowed to do?

If you're not going to be busy, none of the above. Real Life is just that REAL life. If you can't play mafia without lying about your personal situation you're doing it wrong.

[charter]

No it isnt. If I'm going to be on V/LA for a while, then I PM the mod or post in thread. Whenever you PM the mod, they post in the thread that soandso is going to be V/LA so everyone knows.'

edit: this was in response to sens, not shaft.

I'm not going to PM the mod, I'll post in-thread.

Whether I'm lying, or not, I mean.

Oh, I'm just saying that if someone PM's the mod that they will be V/LA, then the mod isn't interfering with the game by repeating this to the players. Players cant be faulted because they PM'ed the mod V/LA instead of posting it in thread. I'm sure some mod even has rules saying PM everything to them, not to post stuff directed at them in thread. I know it's definately easier to get stuff PM'ed to you when modding.

[Goatrevolt]

No it isnt. If I'm going to be on V/LA for a while, then I PM the mod or post in thread. Whenever you PM the mod, they post in the thread that soandso is going to be V/LA so everyone knows.'

edit: this was in response to sens, not shaft.

I'm not going to PM the mod, I'll post in-thread.

Whether I'm lying, or not, I mean.

Oh, I'm just saying that if someone PM's the mod that they will be V/LA, then the mod isn't interfering with the game by repeating this to the players. Players cant be faulted because they PM'ed the mod V/LA instead of posting it in thread. I'm sure some mod even has rules saying PM everything to them, not to post stuff directed at them in thread. I know it's definately easier to get stuff PM'ed to you when modding.

Also, you would PM the mod to inform them of a situation that happens during a night phase as well, since you can't post in thread. I'd expect the mod to relay that information on to the players.

[SensFan]

No it isnt. If I'm going to be on V/LA for a while, then I PM the mod or post in thread. Whenever you PM the mod, they post in the thread that soandso is going to be V/LA so everyone knows.'

edit: this was in response to sens, not shaft.

I'm not going to PM the mod, I'll post in-thread.

Whether I'm lying, or not, I mean.

Oh, I'm just saying that if someone PM's the mod that they will be V/LA, then the mod isn't interfering with the game by repeating this to the players. Players cant be faulted because they PM'ed the mod V/LA instead of posting it in thread. I'm sure some mod even has rules saying PM everything to them, not to post stuff directed at them in thread. I know it's definately easier to get stuff PM'ed to you when modding.

Also, you would PM the mod to inform them of a situation that happens during a night phase as well, since you can't post in thread. I'd expect the mod to relay that information on to the players.

If either of the above cases are in play, I as a Mod would relay any 'fake' V/LAs I get as well.

[SensFan]

If V/LA can be faked then there is no point in having V/LA.

That is all.

V/LA is meaningless unless it's confirmed by the mod.

So the V/LA threadis just a means for people to exploit this "loophole"?

V/LA serves an important purpose. People that abuse it aredoing a serious disservice to the game.

What's the difference between the following?

*"I'll be busy this weekend, don't expect much, if anything."
*"I am V/LA until Sunday afternoon"
*(on Sunday)"Sorry, I had a busy weekend, and couldn't post much"

Which are Scum allowed to do?
Which are Scum not allowed to do?

If you're not going to be busy, none of the above. Real Life is just that REAL life. If you can't play mafia without lying about your personal situation you're doing it wrong.

We certainly disagree, then.
I do the first and third all the time, and wouldn't fault anyone who does the second.

[destructor]

If V/LA can be faked then there is no point in having V/LA.

That is all.

V/LA is meaningless unless it's confirmed by the mod.

So the V/LA threadis just a means for people to exploit this "loophole"?

V/LA serves an important purpose. People that abuse it aredoing a serious disservice to the game.

Do you mean the V/LA thread?

What's wrong with just telling your mods?

[charter]

No it isnt. If I'm going to be on V/LA for a while, then I PM the mod or post in thread. Whenever you PM the mod, they post in the thread that soandso is going to be V/LA so everyone knows.'

edit: this was in response to sens, not shaft.

I'm not going to PM the mod, I'll post in-thread.

Whether I'm lying, or not, I mean.

Oh, I'm just saying that if someone PM's the mod that they will be V/LA, then the mod isn't interfering with the game by repeating this to the players. Players cant be faulted because they PM'ed the mod V/LA instead of posting it in thread. I'm sure some mod even has rules saying PM everything to them, not to post stuff directed at them in thread. I know it's definately easier to get stuff PM'ed to you when modding.

Also, you would PM the mod to inform them of a situation that happens during a night phase as well, since you can't post in thread. I'd expect the mod to relay that information on to the players.

If either of the above cases are in play, I as a Mod would relay any 'fake' V/LAs I get as well.

Oh yeah, I assume that if you're going to fake a V/LA you aren't going to tell the mod you are faking it.

[SensFan]

Even if I did know, though, I don't think its my place as a Mod to decide not to pass it on to the players.

[charter]

Well, I would probably just tell that person to post it in the thread themselves then.

[SensFan]

If the Mod is only willing to pass on V/LA messages he knows aren't fake, that's unfairly affecting the game.

[charter]

Hmmm, this is true. What do you think you should do then? Just post XXXXX is V/LA from this to then, or just quote what they PMed you or what?

[Elmo]

Mods who confirm V/LA are interfering in the game, unless they're willing to lie for the players.

At the moment, I would probably confirm someone's V/LA in-thread; that is, if they'd PMed me to that effect. I personally feel that the game happens in-thread, and access issues are outside of the game - as a subset of organising the game, they should be the mod's responsibility, not the players. If people are going to fake V/LA like that, then logically they could simply fake having disappeared from the site, no? That seems optimal to me if you're going to do something like that in the first place. And it's unreasonable to expect the players to have to deal with that, I think.

And while I think it is tactically sound, I also think that no-one

should

fake V/LA, because it makes their own experience of the game less fun. I don't think even the extremes of the "must play to win" contingent would take it that far.

[Mirth]

If V/LA can be faked then there is no point in having V/LA.

That is all.

V/LA is meaningless unless it's confirmed by the mod.

So the V/LA threadis just a means for people to exploit this "loophole"?

V/LA serves an important purpose. People that abuse it aredoing a serious disservice to the game.

What's the difference between the following?

*"I'll be busy this weekend, don't expect much, if anything."
*"I am V/LA until Sunday afternoon"
*(on Sunday)"Sorry, I had a busy weekend, and couldn't post much"

Which are Scum allowed to do?
Which are Scum not allowed to do?

The middle one doesn't count toward the days until prod total, at least in my opinion.

As a mod, I actually don't give a rat's behind how much a player posts as long as I don't have to keep prodding them. (Well, I do actually care, cause I hate lurkers, but I can't penalize people for it.)

[destructor]

Hmmm, this is true. What do you think you should do then? Just post XXXXX is V/LA from this to then, or just quote what they PMed you or what?

If a player tells a mod they're V/LA, the mod shouoldn't have to question it. I don't see it as interference for a mod to announce that a player is going to be away.

If players want to fake it, they can risk the town not believing that they "forgot to tell the mod" or something.

I personally feel that the game happens in-thread, and access issues are outside of the game - as a subset of organising the game, they should be the mod's responsibility, not the players.

I agree with this lots.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

If faking V/LA was actually not tactically sound, nobody would care about the ethics.

QFT

[Adel]

Adel's V/LA Tactica

V/LA

What it is:

Claiming to be away without access and unable to access MafiaScum. Also includes claims of having restricted or limited access (parents are cracking down, homework, WebSense, swine flu, posting from smartphone). Used to explain and excuse past, present and future absences.

How to do it:

Do one of any of the following: post it in the V/LA thread, your sig line, a game thread, a new topic in MD or GD, PM one of your mod, PM some or all of your mods, post it games you are running. Have someone from facebook or IRC or AIM or your highschool or your dog do any or all of the above.

How to lynch someone doing it:

Find evidence that the person who claimed "V/LA" has demonstrated online activity that contradicts their V/LA claim. Present it to the other players once you have several examples, along with all other indications of scummyness in a single accurate, concise, and persuasive post: your vote post. Attempt to use 500 to 750 words. Organize your evidence cleanly, and repeat your thesis at the top and the bottom of your post. Do not post a "rough draft". Do not publish a vote post you do not have a reasonable expectation of being convincing. Reply to every post that references yours; keep the total number of words in each of your reply posts to less than 500 words. Restate your thesis in each reply post, and directly describe how your reply is linked to your thesis. Collect the information on other players that will enable you to invade the privacy of other players and cyberstalk them -- alts really help with this. All informational advantages assist success.

How to get away with it:

Only play in one game at a time. Keep your online status hidden. Keep a firewall between your MS identity and the rest of your online identity. Don't let other players have your AIM or gmail account or facebook account or any other form of social internet identity that they could use to confirm your presence on-line. Practice strict online social discipline and stay hidden everywhere so that other players can "confirm" that you really haven't been on the internet. Fake your RL death & have your "Mom" post a link to the town newspaper article that describes your death or obituary. Stay off of your computer.

you're welcome.

damn, I really need an editor.

[ortolan]

Here Adel effectively demonstrates the slippery slope that is fake V/LA claims. Don't do it, kids.

[Adel]

Here Adel effectively demonstrates the slippery slope that is fake V/LA claims. Don't do it, kids.

It already happens.

The effective counter:

LAV/LA

Lynch everyone that claims

V/LA

[PokerFace]

I would rather Win a game as a manipulative Bad Ass or White Knight

Then win a game as a Lieing Prick or Desperate Cheap Skate

I think this makes more sense as one sentence...

I thought that would look more dramatic

[ortolan]

he was more referring to the fact you typoed/misspellt than as then

[SensFan]

Hmmm, this is true. What do you think you should do then? Just post XXXXX is V/LA from this to then, or just quote what they PMed you or what?

If a player tells a mod they're V/LA, the mod shouoldn't have to question it. I don't see it as interference for a mod to announce that a player is going to be away.

If players want to fake it, they can risk the town not believing that they "forgot to tell the mod" or something.

I still think that's interfering in the game when you shouldn't be. That's just like saying if Scum wants to fakeclaim, they need to explain that the Mod forgot to give them the Town wincon, since they don't know it.

[PokerFace]

he was more referring to the fact you typoed/misspellt than as then

Looked more dramatic that way. What? You never seen something spelled wrong for dramatic effect? Toys R' Us. I suppose it does kinda change the context but you all should have goten the point.

I would rather win a game as a Manipulative Bad Ass or White Knight than win a game as a Lieing Prick or Desperate Cheap Skate

[ortolan]

I would rather win a game as a Manipulative Bad Ass or White Knight then win a game as a Lieing Prick or Desperate Cheap Skate