DHSDSM beta: Game Over.

[J-Scope]

What kind of gambit was it? How much of your play was a gambit?

I guess this was you way of ending the gambit:

This game is too hard, and trying to scum hunt and goad someone into a conversation ain't working; J-scope I was hoping you would bite, lol Bro... I kinda think you are scum but can't vote ya again....

So were you trying to find scumtells in my reactions? What does this say about the points you uncovered in the first place? I think they were not strong enough to stand on their own because some of it was just double standard and confirmation bias.

@J-scope - your post#322 was the most defensive post made this game based on my erroneous comments, gambit, jokes, sarcasm, ect to keep the game moving when it was dying....

Where are the jokes and sarcasm? I thought you were always pretty serious about wanting to lynch me.

I disagree about my case being OMGUS. I think the methods you used to scumhunt me were scummy and you still have not commented on large parts of them. So we don't have to end our conversation after all!

[PoketheAlpaca]

There is another possibilities now in light of trotsky's reveal. He was SK that wanted Zaphod lynched after his death. Wanting Zaphod lynched after having lost the game as SK, means trotsky could have only wanted one thing there. He actually thought Zaphod was scum with SWSWC and if he(trotsky) couldn't win as SK, he didn't want Zaphod to win either.

I’m not sure I believe that motive because it had no effect on Trotsky. He clearly wanted to lynch Zaphod and I think he could have wanted that whether she was scum or town.

Part of Trotsky's acceptance to be lynched comments were that he hoped we would lynch Zaphod later. Mafia says that sort of thing when they want wifom out there to help their buddies. Trotsky didn't have any buddies since he was SK. I have often seen games where townies got lynched and as they were going down, they did their best to point at who they thought was scum to help the town later. Heck, when FD was facing possible kill by A&B FD took the time to give out comments on why other players looked like scum.

Trotsky was loosing any chance he had at winning as SK at that moment. I'll admit that I was wrong in saying it was the only motivation. I suppose there are other choices:
1. He wanted to help the mafia win later by suggesting a mislynch (unlikly since Trot wouldn't know zaphod's alignment for certain. Zaphod could be mafia and getting her lynched wouldn't help the scum in that scenario)
2. He thought his give up post would somehow keep him alive and get town to go after Zaphod (I doubt this option as well since he was not frantically posting with this issue in an attempt to save himself but more so rescind to going down)
3. He wanted to help the town win later by getting them to lynch mafia.
...But the last one here seemed like the motivation I would expect rolfcopter. If you disagree with my reasoning of trotsky's actions, that's fine. It's just a comment rationalizing what I thought rofl could have been thinking. It is not the reason I have some suspicions on Zaphod. I had some suspicions on her/them earlier in the game for a few things they have answered for, but plum needs to get back to me on a few things I outlined in my last post. I haven't latly had a problem with DGB, so at least that does make me feel better about them.

_________________

@people knowledgeable about meta: For something else I was looking at, could someone please tell me if Yosarian and Nuwen would be considered normally in average more active than shafted and elvis.knits?

I have never played with Nuwem outside the alpha beta games. Yos is a fan of lynching lurkers so is normally active. Considering this though:

Hello.

I'm sorry I haven't been posting. I (Yosarian) do not do well with this kind of mecahnic; the "posting without making progess hurts the town" thing really messes with my head, makes me want to make every single one of my posts *EPIC* and game-changing, and when I can't do that or don't feel up to making a super-mega-post, I tend to put it off. Same thing happened to me in the Short and Sweet mafia game, and posting hurt the town less in that game then it does here. Of course, lurking hurts the town as well, and probably hurts the town more; it's just really hard for me to post when I can't make a short pithy comment without wondering if it's worth doing in a cost/benifit analyis. (My intenet connection was down for about 24 hours on Wednesday, but that's not the main reason.)

He is normally more active outside games with the posting rules we have here. So I don't generally think their activity in this game is any sort of alignment tell.

_________________

Oh I forgot, this was the rationale:

WAIT - what was the alternate wagon???

Whoever was "saved" by the Trotsky lynch has got to be scum.

That'd be RW.

The RW wagon was half way to lynch while the Trotsky wagon was at one vote on page 10
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 25#1692425

Votecount as of post 238:

Raging Wishbone:

3

:Yosariwen, nyballosulgniirkps, Zaphod Beeblebrox,
Zaphod Beeblebrox:

2

:Trotsky, Ojando
PoketheAlpaca:

1

:Ortohoops,
Frog Dodging

1

:J-Scope,
Trotsky:

1

:Zmd,
Ortohoops:

1

:PoketheAlpaca
zmd:

1

:Frog Dodging,
J-Scope:

1

:Raging Wishbone

not voting:

0

:

while 11 players are alive, 6 votes will lynch

The post after that suggest Adel missed jscopes vote of RW aswell

@Mod: I should be voting for Raging Wishbone, not Frog Dodging

The trotsky wagon then picked up speed and went to lynch before page 13. The logic here that RW is scum rests then on his activity pushing the Trotsky wagon and on the activity RW had a partner also pushing the trotsky wagon. Trotsky was lynched by Zaphod, Ortohoops, Frogdodge, kinglulliby,

RW

and myself. Orto's vote was the second vote which came as the first sign of it growing in strength and or being pushed. I have noticed possible conections with SWSWC and orto. Yos has noticed some possible conections between RW and Orto. I think I'll review his comments and or see if they go full circle, see if SWSWC is conected to RW. If they are then the entire latvian scum group could be sex w/ shaft.ed's wife, Ortohoops and Raging Wishbone. Ortohoops has a few things to answer for at the moment from my last postings involving some of this.

_________________

VOTE: Zaphod

Regardless of the above statement DGb is not playing normal and I do not think it is due to the mechanics of the game after her exchange with Trotsky.

@Adel - I don't want to abandond and would support any secnario that does not penalize anyone for posting too much?

Unless I'm mistaken, you haven't really touched on this issue until now. And the last post Zaphod made dipicts you as being possible scum. Show me where you have mentioned this before or explain how DGB is different by yourself or I smell omgus especially since you dropped that remark super fast.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 65#1722465

_________________

FD, I'll admit I didn't look as closely as I could have. If I remember correctly, I read what they quoted and their post and thought, "wow, good point". That was my mistake.

Following the word of others that blindly sounds like a form of scummy bandwagoning. If you actually cared to find scum, like all town should, I think you would have gone back and looked at things more closely than "I agree with RW"

_________________

Yay I'm still down with lynching RW, ZMD, and Orto. My suspicion on zaphod is weaker than the suspicion I have on the others and I'm not about to lynch zaphod blindly if plum just hasn't gotten around to answering my comments. I also find myself agreeing with a couple of the views DGB has given.

Zmd is barely under attack. He may be the first wagon of the day. But already he's throwing in the towel, refusing to claim, accepting his lynch,

but soft-claiming a power role in the hope that he'll be spared

without risk of being counterclaimed, or being accountable. And we are warned we won't get more at L-1 with everyone salivating to hammer. That's scumtalk.

Also, this is gonna piss some people off, but if I get near a lynch, I won't claim. Enough people see me as scummy that I can accept my own lynch instead of being lynched later when we have less mislynches availible to us. And if I were to survive the lynch, I have the scum WIFOMing over my role and trying to decide if they need to worry about me or not. All I am going to say is that

if I am a power role, I have no valuable information to share yet.

That's as close to a claim as I am getting even if I am at L-1 with everyone else threatening to hammer. Take it how you will, but that's what I am doing and I'm set on that.

By saying 'yet' he is infering he could have some later which would be a soft claim and a way to bargin or ask to be spared later.

[Yosariwen]

rofl, this was your breakthrough case a good ole fashion load of OMGUS... Geee, J-Scope let me humbly apoligize for anything I wrote that implied you were scum (without proof you are scum) or if I hurt your feelings, because you seem so sensitive these days... I also would like to take this opporutunity to thank you FUCKING up a gambit I was playing! meh although the gambit was on you and Orthohoop and YES genius it was based on Alpha...so you are saying I made... what a mistake by basing my opinions on Alpha... rofl, your case is epic fail.

UNVOTE: ZMD

@Zmd - I will give you the benefit of the doubt based on your post.

Ugh.

J-scope posts a pretty good, detailed, and logical reason for his suspicion on Raging Wishbone. And RW's response?

1. Calls J-scope's entire attack "OMGUS" without responding to any points in it.

2. Randomally insults J-scope, with a "I don't know why you're so sensitive" post, which just seems odd considering J-scope's post was much more "logical analyis" then "angry ranting".

3. Claims that somehow J-scope just screwed up some "gambit" he was running. I've seen scum claim "No, it was all a gambit" sooo many times...


I know we're still in twilight, but

Vote:Raging Wishbone.

He so looks like caught scum here.

[Frog Dodging]

I am completely in agreement with Yosariwen about RW's last post. To dismiss a case against you as OMGUS is just lazy. J-scope's case is quite obviously rooted in more than the fact that RW is voting him, so it's not OMGUS. RW, I demand you respond to the points that J-scope made.

The only time I've seen yos-town lurk is in that game he linked to, short and sweet. Similar mechanics mean that he has an excuse for lurking here.

Following the word of others that blindly sounds like a form of scummy bandwagoning. If you actually cared to find scum, like all town should, I think you would have gone back and looked at things more closely than "I agree with RW"

Yeah, this. Though TBH I'm slightly uncertain about ZMD again. Still the best lynch today, IMO.

[Frog Dodging]

I am completely in agreement with Yosariwen about RW's last post. To dismiss a case against you as OMGUS is just lazy. J-scope's case is quite obviously rooted in more than the fact that RW is voting him, so it's not OMGUS. RW, I demand you respond to the points that J-scope made.

The only time I've seen yos-town lurk is in that game he linked to, short and sweet. Similar mechanics mean that he has an excuse for lurking here.

Following the word of others that blindly sounds like a form of scummy bandwagoning. If you actually cared to find scum, like all town should, I think you would have gone back and looked at things more closely than "I agree with RW"

Yeah, this. Though TBH I'm slightly uncertain about ZMD again. Still the best lynch today, IMO.

[J-Scope]

I know that ZMD is placing RW at or near the top of his suspect list right now but I can't tell if there is any reason beyond the voting analysis.

Post 305

Suspects in order: RW, JScope, Ortohoops, Ojando.

I think if I was going to vote (it's twilight, so won't bother), it would be for RW. I'd also be ok lynching JScope or ny.

Post 311

The other votes are scummy. Not voting is scummy
…
Put them together and ny/RW got scumpoints on both.

Post 321

I have you and RW as my top two choices, so yes, I think the chances are high that at least one of you is scum. Not because of your suspicions on each other.

We can see RW is now one of his top two choices but the only reason provided is that RW was on both the A&B and the Trotsky wagon but not the hammer vote or the vote directly after shaft.ed.

I can understand ZMD's opinion that a hammer could be done by scum or town because it takes guts and a good case on the voters part to hammer. I'm not sure a scum would try not to vote after a scumbuddy though; I've never thought about that as being something scum would avoid.

So I think the voting analysis is okay but not very strong reasoning. I'm not sure why it would be reasoning enough to vote when we're at day 3 in the game.

@ZMD: Is the voting analysis the only reason RW is on your suspect list? Why is RW higher than nyballs?

[Saunt Adelaus]

Rule Changes:
1. I will no longer prod or replace players. Nor will I modkill players for inactivity. You are all mature players: it is required by "the spirit of the game" that all players participate and post.
2. Each action phase will correspond with a period of day. Day 3 will equal Action Phase 2, Day 4 will be Action Phase 3, ect.
3. Twilight will last as long as I like, but I will not accept submissions for actions during periods of twilight.
4. Each day will have a deadline. At deadline the largest minority (or "first past the pole" in the event of a tie) will lynch.

Note that this totally lifts the "posting restriction" that the game has been under. Standby for a post explosion!

I really really hate changing rules mid-stream, but this game was teetering between excellence and disaster.

I hope you all enjoy this excellent game!


~~~

Start of Day 3, Action Phase 2

~~~

Votecount:

not voting:

10

:Frog Dodging, J-Scope, nyballosulgniirkps, Ortohoops, Ojando, PoketheAlpaca, Raging Wishbone, Yosariwen, Zaphod Beeblebrox, Zmd

while 10 players are alive, 6 votes will lynch

Day 3 deadline: 14 days from this post.

[Saunt Adelaus]

This is the message I sent the scum:

Dear Scum,

The solution to the action phase mechanic I currently favor is to set a 2 week deadlines for each period of day, with the largest minority lynching at deadline, each period of day will equal one action phase.

I will have to amend each PM slightly if I decide to go with this solution. All such changes will be made public, of course, and all roles will be amended at the same time.

Before I start on that, I want to give you a chance to veto.

You have 72 hours to PM me (Adel or Saunt Adelous) "Veto" to use your veto.

I will make this message public by posting it in the game thread if none of the scum veto within 72 hours.

Any suggestions or question you may have are very welcome!

Cheers!
Adel

none of the scum vetoed this plan. I decided not to rewrite any role PM's. The order in which stuff resolves:
1. New day/new action phase (same thing) post by mod -- also the official end of twilight.
2. Action submission for this action phase are accepted.
3. A hammer vote is cast OR deadline falls. (no further new actions are accepted after this time/date) -- Official start of twilight.
4. Pending kills and other actions resolve.
5. Lynch scene

I think this solution is the correct one for preserving the fun of the game, and all of the good & long posts that might make this game especially interesting to other players later.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

w00t

Voting for RW but it's a toss up with Zmd.

vote: RagingWishbone

[J-Scope]

The new rules sound good to me.

Vote: Raging Wishbone

[Yosarian2]

As most of you may already know, I will be V/LA for the beach bash, and will be leaving later this evening.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

DIE SCUMS DIE

Bumpee bump bump

[Frog Dodging]

Thank fucking God. That severly reduces the pressure of each post.

Vote: ZMD

[Ortohoops]

Vote: Zmd

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

w00t!

Zmd vs. RW

Not that it matters, both need to die.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Free from the pressure to put together one huge AMAZING case on RW, I can put up all the stuff I have so far. Yeehaw.

To clarify, are you saying you often review dead players OR is that generally meant in the playstyle context of just joining a game? Can you present a link to a completed game where you have done that sort of thing before?

In the playstyle context of just joining a game/catching up on a lot of stuff midgame that's happened without me (my post in question in this game was much more akin to the former). Here is an excellent example of this; I missed the first few (fairly dense, if I recall - that whole game was pretty dense . . .) pages of a game and reviewed it in that stream-of-consciousness style. I was a Vanilla Townie there. Again, this is my playstyle indicative of null Plum only in my humble opinion.

Zaphod:

Caught the SK; excellent. Now I need to go back for more tells and analysis. Grrr Smile.

I did not gloat personally and I did not try to ascribe the catching of the SK to myself or otherwise emphasize my part in it.

The top quote looks awfully like gloating. If you’re saying that you personally didn’t gloat but your other half may have, then I’m not going to accept that as an explanation. What 1 half does reflects on the other half.

I meant to clarify what I meant by that quote. One objectively might take that quote of mine in different ways.

1. I/my hydra buddy caught the SK; excellent job on our part. Now I need to go back for more tells and analysis [to continue my amazing scumhunting!]. Grrr Smile.

2. The SK has been caught and lynched and is dead; that's excellent news. Now I need to go back for more tells and analysis. Grrr Smile.

I meant interpretation #2 (noting that the town lynched the SK while I was out). I could see that one might interpret it as #1 (personal gloating, including gloating for the work of a hydra buddy); I tried, and continue to try, to clarify.

Again, I am uncertain why you continued to try to argue that I tried to gush to the the town about how awesome my/DGB's scumhunting/SK-catching skills are in some attempt at scummy manipulation as opposed to merely noting things as I did a reread and noting that A&B-SK had been lynched.

---

Guess what time it is? Yes, it's time I got back into this game &c. - the Trotsky flip helps, as does the fact that I think DGB and I are headed in the same (right) direction: Raging Wishbone. I’ll have to discuss the Zmd situation with her, because I think I see it differently than she does, but I still believe that RW is a more fruitful suspect for now. You see DGB posted what she noticed about the wagons and why she thought that such might indicate RW-scum.

- Questioning J-Scope on what didn't seem to be a very fruitful topic, requesting a screen cap and then denouncing J-Scope for providing the screencap looked like a very ugly tactic to me.

- Early parroting of Ortohoops’ case on Yosariwen (with an added bit of BS, if you’ll pardon me).

Also, some questions for him.

I ain't gonna post a wall of text. It has been stated over and over, but there was something really wrong between Trotsky and Zaphod...one of those two plus jscope is scum.

Trotsky flips SK; now what, in your mind?

^^All this but mostly what DGB said before me: RW looks to be the guy who was 'saved' by the Trotsky lynch.

Why I’m less inclined to vote Zmd

Though on further consideration I agree with my other head that they both need to die

- Kmd is better than this as scum (gah, the WIFOM, I know I know. With his claim of refusal to claim he’s made himself into a liability, and I’m a bit upset about that, yeah.). This also has to do with gut: looks more like Town-Zmd from Alpha than Scum-Kmd I’ve seen . . . in a whole bunch of games. I have reason to believe that as scum, even if his hydra buddy was away from the game he’d be using the scum QT a lot, and that would show (more coherent, less giving up, probably). I’ve

played

with Kmd-scum with daytalk and I don’t think this is what I’m seeing here. Again, this is a minor point which works most from my point of view; objectively it's a bit loaded with WIFOM.

-

"Feh, ZMD's most recent post is sparse and almost purely responsive. Everything about his post is watered down and galvanized only by questions. Even his case and vote are forced in order to refute ShaftedSex."

Actually I’m not sure that Sex Club was attacking Zmd too much, not in a way I can be reasonably sure wasn’t distancing or bussing.

Anyway, this is what I have so far. See y'all soon.

[Zmd]

JScope, it's a combination of the voting analysis and their most recent posts. NY isn't scummy apart from the analysis.

Plum, again, I am FAR from giving up. It's a new strategy I've been trying. Call it a Gambit if you'd like. Basically, I don't think a claim will stop my lynch. So if my lynch

is

stopped, scum are still trying to figure out what my role is and whether or not I'm about to gain info that will win for the town.

Vote Raging Wishbone

. It's me or them. That suits me fine because they are my top suspect anyway.

[Frog Dodging]

I'm gone for the weekend, and my partner hasn't posted for over a month in this thread. So don't expect anything form us until after the weekend.

[J-Scope]

Walt and RR haven't posted in their normal accounts in a month. Are you guys still around for this game though?

spring hasn't been posting for a week but kison is active on his account. Can nyballs tell us where they stand?

Sando and ojanen are active in their regular accounts too. Can ojando give an update on where they stand?

[nyballosulgniirkps]

Vote: Raging Wishbone

Obv.

[Raging Wishbone]

I think this puts me at l1 or l2, so I don't have a problem claiming at this point. First I will address a few questions, some of which have already been answered, however at the pace this game was moving it is easy to forget things....

I think RW misrepresented the initial Yosariwen vote on them by saying this:

It looks to me like RW is trying to undermine Yosariwen’s initial vote on them by making it look like Yosariwen had acknowledged the chats as a justification for voting (which I don’t agree with) along with eventually releasing the chats as an offensive, instead of defensive, play, when it was clear that RW made them release the chats. RW’s conclusion that the situation was “completely scummy” here looks reactive and exaggerated.

I think RW is trying to compare the situation to alpha, where YosNuwen was scum, without evidence to explain why the alpha meta applies.

I really don't see the problem with thinking Yoso was scum and then after having a discussion with them based on their IM chats changing my mind. It was based on Alpha, however I think they reacted quite differently this time around and I am leaning on them being town.

It also seems very early and unprovoked to use emotional words like "FUCKING be crucified", so I feel this could be a deliberate exaggeration to heighten the importance of the case through emotion as a possible motive.

This is not emotional, I find very little within this game that could provoke a response such as you described. It is exaggerated to illustrate the importance of my reply.

@J-Scope - I don't get it? You answered both of these questions yourself correctly(it was based on Alpha and it was exagerrated). Why ask me to elaborate? These are not scum tells.

Secondly, I feel that Raging Wishbone has treated his case on me in a similar manner. RW attacked me for my posting of quicktopic chats here:

This quote paints me in a bad light and does not acknowledge my side of the story that explained why it looked fake. It is misrepresentation to say I posted the QT’s for a reason on my own accord, because the only one that wanted the QT’s was RW himself:

Once again, you answered this question yourself. It should paint you in a bad light as I do not believe your side of the story. I do not understand why K-Scope would post in teh thread without getting your take on the game in quick talk first.

This looks like an attempt to compare scum-alpha-Jscope with beta-Jscope without using any evidence, so I don’t trust the motive they had for bringing this up.

I was comparing "Alpha" and "Beta" J-Scopes. This is a good meta and I think the comparisson of the two games is relevant.

@J-Scope - You may find my comments regarding Sex W/Shaft as a double standard, however I disagree. I find their comments regarding your "townie" alignment musch more proactive then those they made regarding us.

@RW What scumtells do you still think are valid against me? Do you think anything looked scummy before but now you aren’t sure or don’t think is a scumtell?

I think mostly you have become overly defensive. I unvoted because I had a shadow of a doubt, however you seem to want to labor the points against you, so I have no problem elaborating a bit more which is making me reconsider again. As far as other specific points your daytalk and the fact that K-Scope posted in thread but not in qt. Your assocition with Sex W/Shaft. Lastly a meta or rather comparing Beta and Alpha.

Do you think shaft.ed’s post to me was any different than what he said to you?

Yes I do, as I explained above.

Do you know why I talked to myself in my QuickTopic? Or is it just that you know I am capable of faking it so you think the new stuff could very well be fake too? If so, why ask for them?

A bit of both. My biggest concern with your daytalk is that K-Scope id not post before posting in thread. It just seems very unrealistic.

@Why did the argument about QuickTopics reappear as a reason for voting me in post 267 after you unvoted over that same argument in post 257?

Because it is something, along with all of these other points I have a doubt on. I don't like lynching townies and would rather explore other options before voting for you again. I am not close to calling you town, in fact you are still in my top three suspects.

What kind of gambit was it? How much of your play was a gambit?

So were you trying to find scumtells in my reactions? What does this say about the points you uncovered in the first place? I think they were not strong enough to stand on their own because some of it was just double standard and confirmation bias.

I don't know why you need me to answer questions, when you keep figuring things out on your own? I explained my reasons for voting you and unvoting you as well that my unvote does not clear you in my opion.

Where are the jokes and sarcasm? I thought you were always pretty serious about wanting to lynch me.

I have changed my mind, but that is not to say by the time I finish catching up I won't vote you again.

I disagree about my case being OMGUS. I think the methods you used to scumhunt me were scummy and you still have not commented on large parts of them. So we don't have to end our conversation after all!

Your entire post is defending yourself on a case I dropped? Why? It just seems really useless and defensive when you were not in a bad position. It seems like omgus because just about every issue you have made against me stems from something I wrote about you.

Unless I'm mistaken, you haven't really touched on this issue until now. And the last post Zaphod made dipicts you as being possible scum. Show me where you have mentioned this before or explain how DGB is different by yourself or I smell omgus especially since you dropped that remark super fast.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 65#1722465

Actually I have mentioned ti a few times, starting around here....

You guys can start digging our grave once we're dead, and not a minute before, OK?

Since our mortality is on the line here, I feel it prudent to share every last thought I have on this game before our untimely demise. Raging Wishbone is quite inefficient at what they're trying to do. Yosariwen is way more downkey than I would expect. Look at them after our death. Sex club is a tad bit quieter than I would like. PTA and ZMD need to die already, especially PTA. Incamnito is one of the people that the town needs to start striving to act like. For someone saying so much about activity and whatnot, Ortohoops is extremely quiet. Death and Trotsky need to start speaking up. I have also heard absolutely nothing from nyball

Dude are you sure i'm not? j/k, lol... Why are you still alive by the way?

Does this game need a kick in the ass? I'm more than happy to prod people, so long as you specifically request it in the thread.

Yes please prod: zmd, poka, and hoops. Thanks.

Zaphod = Town (free pass)

For a lot of this game I seem to recall you saying you weren't comfortable with us on a gut level. Why the mind change?

Caught the SK; excellent. Now I need to go back for more tells and analysis. Grrr .

Actually it was RR who posted suspicions of you and it'ts me who wants to confirm you town. I kinda just wanted to see how you responded... Can I ask you an ethics question, would you feel comfortable winning as scum after DGB's post?

Regarding Zaphod, I just really found the exchange with Trotsy odd. Last we talked, myself and RR were split on Zaphod, he thinks she's scum, I think shes townie. However the other points people have made make me want to reread her to see if I am mistaken.

rofl, this was your breakthrough case a good ole fashion load of OMGUS... Geee, J-Scope let me humbly apoligize for anything I wrote that implied you were scum (without proof you are scum) or if I hurt your feelings, because you seem so sensitive these days... I also would like to take this opporutunity to thank you FUCKING up a gambit I was playing! meh although the gambit was on you and Orthohoop and YES genius it was based on Alpha...so you are saying I made... what a mistake by basing my opinions on Alpha... rofl, your case is epic fail.

UNVOTE: ZMD

@Zmd - I will give you the benefit of the doubt based on your post.

Ugh.

J-scope posts a pretty good, detailed, and logical reason for his suspicion on Raging Wishbone. And RW's response?

1. Calls J-scope's entire attack "OMGUS" without responding to any points in it.

2. Randomally insults J-scope, with a "I don't know why you're so sensitive" post, which just seems odd considering J-scope's post was much more "logical analyis" then "angry ranting".

3. Claims that somehow J-scope just screwed up some "gambit" he was running. I've seen scum claim "No, it was all a gambit" sooo many times...

I know we're still in twilight, but

Vote:Raging Wishbone.

He so looks like caught scum here.

What can I tell ya... I was rushed, felt like he was answering my questions for me anyway and couldn't be bothered. This was probbly a mistake because I am being forced to claim now. I adressed his issues above, and the only good that might come out of my lynch or an NK will be the wagon that formed based on such a weak case.

I am completely in agreement with Yosariwen about RW's last post. To dismiss a case against you as OMGUS is just lazy. J-scope's case is quite obviously rooted in more than the fact that RW is voting him, so it's not OMGUS. RW, I demand you respond to the points that J-scope made.

It was a little lazy but it was more that I was rushed and RR is VLA for at least another week.

As far as my reads at this point

Scummish
ZMD
JScope
Zaphod

Neutral
NYballs
Ojando
orthohoops

Townish
Yoso
Frog Dodge
Pokealpha

I have read the case against ZMD and although I do not feel it is as strong as J-Scope or Zaphod, I feel he is the best lynch at this point of the game. I don't think we have heard nearly enough from NYBalls and Ojando who seem to be actively lurking and I would like to hear more from Orthohoops.

VOTE: ZMD

Our role is a Doctor, we protected frogdodge round one and pokealpca round 2. I planted some seeds, such as asking why frogdoge was still alive and I also defended pokealpca because I intended to protect him action phase 2. I was a toss up between him and yoso, however I did not hear back from RR. So pokealpca, you will not be nk'd this action phase. I am undecided on who to protect next action phase, however I am hoping RR will be back and able to catch up in time to help me make the vote.

[Zmd]

Am I wrong in thinking that your claim contradicts your attack on FD?

[Raging Wishbone]

Am I wrong in thinking that your claim contradicts your attack on FD?

[quote="raging wishbone" Our role is a Doctor, we protected frogdodge round one and pokealpca round 2.

I planted some seeds such as asking why frogdoge was still alive

I never attacked him, I asked why he was still alive. I also have had doubts on his alignment as the game progressed. We sent our protection in before the game started. Just because I have protected frog and poke does not mean they are town.

[Raging Wishbone]

Am I wrong in thinking that your claim contradicts your attack on FD?

Our role is a Doctor, we protected frogdodge round one and pokealpca round 2.

I planted some seeds such as asking why frogdoge was still alive

/quote]

I never attacked him, I asked why he was still alive. I also have had doubts on his alignment as the game progressed. We sent our protection in before the game started. Just because I have protected frog and poke does not mean they are town.

[Zmd]

Um, yeah. RW, explain this.

VOTE: FrogDodge

Unless we can figure out if A&B was lying... I see no other reason he is not dead. I kinda would like to stick with Occams Razor.

If you knew you protected FD, why did you vote him here with this added on to it?