Mini 775 - Hammersmouth Is Under Attack! (Game over)

[Tarballs]

3rd Vote Count of Day 1

3 - kabenon007

(Wulfy, kirroha, _over9000)

2 - kirroha

(iamausername, semioldguy)

1 - Percy

(PsychoSniper)

1 - CJMiller

(Percy)

1 - Pablo Molinero

(CJMiller)

1 - Wulfy

(Farkshinsoup)

3 - Not Voting

(Artem, kabenon007, Pablo Molinero)


With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Deadline: May 12th, 2009

[semioldguy]

I can wholeheartedly contend that everyone who thought you were a scumbuddy for not wanting to put more pressure at L-2 is a complete and total idiot. I will personally go up them, hike my leg and pee on them.

Please help me out here. Who, exactly, thought she was a scumbuddy of Percy's for not wanting to put him at L-2. Who accused her of that? I think I missed that. (Not being sarcastic - if it's there, please point it out)

I thought it was pretty clear he was referring to this:

In another game I played (now over) I refrained from pressuring somebody and got accused because of that, since they started thinking that the person I refused to pressure because he's already at L-2 was my scumbuddy.

and was not referring to this game's events.

[Percy]

I have read Percy's explanation since, and I'm not sure if i can buy it. Your determination to keep this in the RVS may indeed explain your switch of vote away from CJM (although I'm still rather dubioous about that point), but when you placed yet another "random" vote on Pablo Molinero, I find that even more suspicious. I just don't see what that vote can possibly achieve after you've already publicly announced that your votes are random. What kind of reaction other than a good laugh can you possibly get out of that vote? Who's going to take it seriously when they already know the vote on them was purely random, whether they're town or scum? If anything, IMO throwing too much random votes around only diminish the effectiveness of the vote.

I wanted to keep things in the RVS. Thus I made a random vote. No-one was meant to take it seriously, because it was a random vote.
The reasons why I wanted the RVS to stick around have been addressed in my earlier posts.

At this point in the game, my votes don't mean suspicion (and neither does anyone else's, for the most part).

Wrong.

After I made the vote on _over9000, PsychoSniper voted me and two people (yourself included) voted PsychoSniper. Before that, no-one was seriously voting. It was the goddamn RVS. I wanted to indicate my suspicion without leaving the RVS, so I FoSed and continued to keep my vote random.

If we're all town caught in a clusterfuck of vague reads, the scum will rub their hands and hasten this along until one of us gets lynched.

Exactly. If you think you know how the scum will react in the situation where Psycho, Percy and CJ are all town, how can you say that it won't help us catch them?

I know how the scum will

feel

. That doesn't mean it will be detectable in their posts. Maybe it will be detectable - I'm sure we will get useful content doing it this way even if it isn't. I just thought that a wider search to begin with would be a

better

idea.

Sure, I can gather similar information as the day progresses, but the random vote stage makes it easy for everyone to contribute without having to weigh in on this case or that case.

If they're not weighing in on any cases, then what are they really contributing?

Having them weigh in on nothing much at all that has little to do with them is how the RVS works.
Having them weigh in on nothing much at all that has little to do with them is how this "let's run with the first malformed piece of crap case we can find!" idea works.
The advantage of the RVS is that everyone is actively involved. The danger of an actual case developing from the slipups of those under investigation (where scumtells are manufactured by the scum and overzealous townies) is also diminished.

-A lurker avoiding participation in the case discussion is more suspicious, in my opinion, than a lurker avoiding participation in the RVS;
-A mafia is given more opportunities to manufacture scum-tells when we're honed in on a case, thereby giving us more information to work with than we would have in the RVS;

Just look at Kabenon and Kirr. Players are suspicious of them because of the case on you, not because of the RVS. While the focus started out on you, we've expanded to more players as the case unfolded.

I completely agree. I am willing to concede that my efforts were somewhat unnecessary, as everyone seems to be getting along OK.

Point One
He says his FoS's are his signs of suspicion when his votes are not. First off, that's just weird. I never saw an explanation as to why he works like this, and would like one. It does not make sense that the vote that could kill someone is not a symbol of your suspicion, because it should. An FoS won't kill scum. A vote will.

I use my FoSes to clearly mark my suspicions, and tend to use them liberally (I find it helps on re-reads when other townies mark out who they're suspicious of, rather than hiding it in dense wads of text, and that's why I do it). I wanted CJMiller to answer the question, but I didn't want to leave the random vote phase.

There's your explanation. Should I quote all my previous posts whenever I post for your ease of reference?

That leads us nicely into:

Point Two
He wanted to keep things in the random voting stage. Keeping things in the random voting stage only traps the town in getting random information. Random voting stage yields random information until we find a way to get ourselves out of it, which is another reason for my wagon/ witholding of my reasons. It helped create responses and therefore information.

1. What is "random information", and why is it bad?
You said:

Gathering information is gathering information is gathering information.

What's going on here?


2. You voted me to deliberately hasten the end the RVS. OK, you disagree with me. But you did say:

I jumped on as vote four. If you're going to get pissed at someone for a wagon, go after the ones who put him at -2 and -1. I jumped on because I believed at that moment that Percy was the scummiest, therefore my vote would rest with him. I witheld my reasons for reactions, which I got.

What kind of a reaction were you expecting?
What information have you gathered?


@semioldguy: I think I answered most of your questions. Let me make one clarification. Most people seem to say "RVS sucks get out of it as fast as possible", and I'm getting a lot of questions and comments made about why I like the RVS. So here it is.

----

WHY I THINK THE RANDOM VOTE PHASE IS AWESOME

In the random vote phase, everyone is looking at how everyone else works, with no good grounding on any good reads. Some people know each other, and are scumbuddies together. We want to find these people!
We can start by flinging accusations around (and most games start this way). They're lighthearted, the reasons are usually pretty lame, but hopefully we can start to see some personalities. If someone's personality appears to change later in the game, we have something to call them on!
We take our notes, but keep the search wide and make sure everyone gets a look-in.

Eventually, we'll get something weird, something good, something worth seriously investigating. We do that, and see how people react - do they like the proceedings? Do they participate, or shrink away? Before long people are screaming at each other, and we have to sort through the confusion, keep our heads and keep looking for the knowing glances between the scum.

This is how the day proceeds, whether we get out of the RVS sooner or later. But later is better - it's the best way to prepare us for the day. It generates content for everyone, and establishes personality reads that can be scrutinized later.
----
In hindsight, the plan of "having random votes while having actual suspicion FoSes" was never going to work. It's either random voting with no FoSes, or you're talking about suspicious activity out in the open - thus not the RVS. I fucked up. But my desire to keep the RVS alive was genuine, and my reasons are above.


CJMiller's post 78 was some OMGUS bullshit. I also don't like the "don't hurt me, I'm new" defense, ever. Still liking my vote.

Artem's Claim

Now, I'm going to switch gears and talk about my role.

After spending some time thinking about it, I think I'm going to claim, because otherwise I don't see how my role is useful.

I'm a

Self-Watcher

, which means that (unless blocked or jailed) I get a list of players night-targeting me at the beginning of each day.

From what I understand, this is a doubly-edged sword. On the one hand, other than a potential doctor protection, the mafia has no night ability that would not kill or block me. That means that anybody who appears on my list at the beginning of the day is either town or a mafia doctor.

On the other hand, if I reveal my "investigation" results, I would be outing the town's power roles.

I'm still trying to figure out the best play for town with this information, but the reason I claimed is that my role requires others to target me at night, and outside of me being purposefully scummy or a stellar scum-hunter, it's not likely to happen.

There is no reason for a mafia doctor to protect you unless they want to use this ability. You have just given the mafia doctor (if there is one) a way to help them hide their scumminess. This is not good, and we'll have to keep it in mind later on.

However, I think your reasons for claiming are sound. Townie power roles can target you to help their claims later, and that really is the best use of your role. You're also right in saying that if the scum NK you, then the town isn't losing something really important.

Could you be lying? Well, you have just opened yourself up for investigation

and

the duty of confirming night actions, which no other role would be able to do accurately. A Godfather wouldn't know who has what role and what night he was targeted, so I'm happy to rule that out. I think the "ninja trying to draw a tracker" idea is more intruiging, but the problems are the same as for the Godfather situation.

I believe him, and think he claimed at the best time. Town points to Artem.



It's getting really late here. I will comment on the more recent developments (cases against Pablo, kirroha, Wulfy and kabe) tomorrow.

[Pablo Molinero]

School is happening to me. In the face. I may not get back to mafiascum til tomorrow late. We'll see.

[Farkshinsoup]

My bad - should have read more closely.

Hmm, that being the case, I'm going to

unvote, Vote:PsychoSniper

and upgrade Wulfy to an FoS.

FoS: Wulfy

Wulfy, I would still like some clarification on where you currently stand with both kirroha and kabenon.

And I'd like to hear anything from PsychoSniper.

[Farkshinsoup]

^ this is referring to Semioldguy's post 101.

[kabenon007]

Only if you lead in the wrong direction. If you're leading the town to scum lynches, that sounds like a good thing to me.

While this may sound good, I prefer not to quote unquote lead the town anywhere, because if I am leading them in a direction I believe to be a scum lynch, one can never be one hundred percent sure, so I prefer to put out reasons why my direction is appealing, why I am heading in that direction, and then let the town decide for itself whether it wants to follow me, rather than lead. Does that clear things up a bit for you, username?

1. What is "random information", and why is it bad?

Mm, perhaps I should have used a different word other than random. I was merely drawing a parallel between random votes and the information that would come of them, and so called it random. Random information in this case would be information garnered in a fashion that was not planned, and therefore the information received was not of a linear nature.

Say Person A randomly votes Person B. There are many different ways Person B could respond, so let's say Person B says "Lulz, well, you're ridiculous." Because the cause was random, it did not force Person B to give any kind of information, therefore it is not as trustworthy as if Person A made an accusation, forcing Person B to respond and make some comment on the exact information Person A is desiring. It makes sense in my head at the moment, if it needs a bit more clarity, ask and I'll try again when I'm less tired.

Gathering information is gathering information is gathering information.

Gathering information is gathering information is gathering information.

I am saying that scum gathering information or town gathering information doesn't matter, information is still being gathered. The means by which it is gathered, while important, do not discount the fact that information was obtained.

What kind of a reaction were you expecting?
What information have you gathered?

I was expecting the exact reaction I got. Shows me what kind of mentality the people I'm playing with have.

I've already posted what information I have. Should I quote all my previous posts whenever I post for your ease of reference?

[Artem]

And about the "emphasizing" and the "unresolving" bit... can you help me quote some of the posts which I made that made me appear so? I looked through all my posts and I believed that I had been answering the questions to my full ability.

I happen to agree with the sentiment that you're trying too hard to appear townie, so I'm going to answer this question with an example:

Okay, purely defending myself isn't going to let the Town go anywhere. I've read through all the posts, so I should post a bit on what I think about the players here so far.

[Artem]

To clarify, rather than simply doing something pro-town, you are explaining that what you're about to do is pro-town. This, to me, is trying to appear too townie.

[_over9000]

Kabe, why is it that youre posts have suddenly transformed from all but attacking those who were suspecting you to such a polite mood?

[kabenon007]

Stupid actions make me angry. Nobody likes me when I'm angry. When an accusation leveled against me is not dumb, inane, and nonsensical, I like to respond in a way that is non-threatening and trying to be helpful just by giving what they are asking for. Sometimes people just piss me off though.

[kirroha]

To clarify, rather than simply doing something pro-town, you are explaining that what you're about to do is pro-town. This, to me, is trying to appear too townie.

I think you're not understanding my point here. Even a Townie is not going to just let himself get lynched. Do you think that just because somebody defends himself, he's scum? If you really think I'm scum, or "Too Townie", as you said - I can't stop you. There's a Wikipage on Too Townie.

And also, you're picking out every single thing I've done here that a pro-towner would do and using that against me with the "Too Townie" case. I'm trying to explain myself here. I'm trying to tell you that what I'm doing is pro-town so that you all can start voting for real scum instead. But if you believe that that's what scum would do, I can't stop you - go ahead and vote.

But one thing I'm going to tell you - just in case I ever get lynched and you all are sure that I'm pro-town, please look over kabenon007 again. He feels way too scummy to me.

[CJMiller]

Mod, vote count please.

[semioldguy]

@ kirroha

The reason I find it suspicious is not because you are defending yourself and not because you are doing things pro-town, but it is suspicious because you are unnecessarily describing and/or implying that what you are doing in this game as being pro-town actions, when doing so it not necessary. If what you are doing is pro-town, it will speak for itself. You don't have to and shouldn't preempt it by saying or explaining that you are doing something because that's what town would do or because someone else might think that if you didn't do something you would be perceived as scummy. This shouldn't be confused with not explaining things, just to avoid certain kinds of explanation in certain ways.


@ CJMiller

The last vote count was only twelve posts ago. Only one vote has even changed since then. Have some patience.

[kabenon007]

Miller had to think of something to fill his one line of post. Give him a break, semioldguy.

So, kirroha, seeing as how you still think I'm scum, why haven't you replied to my defense or pushed your interrogation? If you think I'm scum, you should be going after me. After all, it's what a townie would do.

[Wulfy]

@Kirr:

Can you please answer my question?

----------------------------
@Wulfy

@artem:
...
*growls angrily*
I don't care if its cute now...
*kills the fucking cat*
You're a complete idiot. You do realize this game is open thus making you far more valuable to just

shut the hell up and say nothing?

Semioldguy is right by the book, and you failure to recognize ninja just proves:

1. You're town almost irrefutably
2. You're an idiot. Almost irrefutably. [/sarcasm]

You've obviously made your point with the emotes, the name-calling and a complete lack of content in the entire paragraph. [/sarcasm]

You're welcome to try again and explain why you think I should not have claimed. Until then, I stand by my reasoning.

In bold is your claim, stupid. <--Why? Because Argumentum ad hominem is fun! Although, actually having a point goes against the "sole basis of an argument" part, but whatever. The ad hom claim is thrown around a bit lately...

@Kabe: I was first (I believe) in saying your bandwagon is scummy.

Kirroha, when you quote, could you please quote with a name? It's very hard to keep track of who you're responding to, especially because your posts contain a lot of quotes.

Unvote, vote: Percy

Diescumdie.

You're mafia in my book.

Unvote; Vote kabnenon007

This is purely wagon based and holds absolutely no reasoning of your own or even the VAGUEST attempts at a case. *Stradles you, holding your neck in my maw*

QUICK! GIVE ME THE COMMAND AND I'LL KILL HIM!

Do you still feel this certain about Kabenon's guilt? If so, why?

He brushes off all assaults in his last post and I don't think a townie should ever make the above post that he made. So, yes, I still feel this strongly about him.

In regards to kirroha, first you post this:

How is it a good idea to let your emotions cloud your judgment (which is flawed) and place someone this close to a lynch when a pure bandwagon vote was just placed on him? The bandwagon is automatically scummier since town would NEVER rush to lynch someone. AND, judging from the list, it appears to me that the mafia is big, bad, and powerful. Be more careful next time.

{some other stuff you posted}

FoS: Kirr

In your next post, after she's caught some heat from the town, you change your mind:

I can wholeheartedly contend that everyone who thought you were a scumbuddy for not wanting to put more pressure at L-2 is a complete and total idiot. I will personally go up them, hike my leg and pee on them.

Please help me out here. Who, exactly, thought she was a scumbuddy of Percy's for not wanting to put him at L-2. Who accused her of that? I think I missed that. (Not being sarcastic - if it's there, please point it out)[/quote]

You're stupid. Read the conversation in context and you'd realize that Kirr provided the defense that she felt a need to pressure percy and vote him (despite being L-2) because in another game the town suspected her for NOT pressuring someone (further) just because the person was at L-2. I am speaking of the people in another game. My mind, therefore, didn't alter in the slightest.

Kabe's post directly above this one doesn't really change my opinion much, but I suppose I'm just stubborn.

Also, I keep up the role play until asked to stop, so I'll stop roleplayng from this point on.

This point-------> .

[PsychoSniper]

Okay, first, responding to those who addressed me:

I'm apparently being FOSed/voted for the following:

- being "friendly with the town"
- being too "passive" t be town
- backing down and apologizing for my earlier statement
- not posting for a while

@_over9000: I'm not sure what exactly there is to defend against. What's wrong with my apology? I looked back at my post and saw that I made a statement that was quite uncalled for, and I admitted that I phrased my message badly. I don't see what's scummy about that. Keep in mind that I wan't even changing my stance about my vote. I said that I wasn't wrong to place a 4th vote on Percy, even if I did get heat for it, and I still believe so, considering my was the only one that was placed out of legitimate suspicion while the rest were all random. But I'm willing to admit I made a mistake in my phrasing. And I don't see what's wrong with being friendly, either. I don't mind if people attack me by poking holes in my theories, but I don't like to start an argument over bad or offensive choice of words. From my (admittedly limited) experience, this tends to lead to heated personal arguments that detract from the game because people let emotion get the best of them

As for me being "passive".....that's just blatantly wrong, considering that I was the first player to actually tried to attack someone for his suspicious behaviour. You may or may not agree with my scum-theory about who I'm attacking, but that doesn't make me passive in the least. Maybe you can give me a definition of what you mean by passive?

@Farkshinsoup: I "backed down" because, like I said, I looked back and felt that I really did make a presumptious statement. See above in my response to _over9000. As for me being inactive, that's simply because I've been busy in real life, nothing more. It's not as if I'm posting elsewhere but not this thread.

Now, back to where I was the last time I posted. It's true that I do not really have actual concrete proof behind my Percy-CJM buddy theory. In response to what iamausername posted about my theory: yes, Percy switched his vote before his FOS, and I believe it was a random vote at the time. But most people aren't worried about a random vote not getting noticed by the Mod. Some don't even remember who they random voted at the start. When the vote wasn't picked up by the Mod, Percy insisted that it gets legit moved. I interpreted it as Percy wanting to move that vote off CJM rather than placing it on _over900, because at the _over9000 had done basically.....nothing. I'm looking not just at individual suspicions, but at any potential links between players that I may spot. In this semi-open setup, the only inter-related roles are the scum, so I went with what I thought was the most visible relationship.

Of course, now Percy has explained in detail why he treats random votes so seriously. I still have my doubts about that, but more importantly, CJM has IMO officially far surpassed him in scumminess, just by the fact that he has got ZERO content posts after 5 pages, plus a blatant, useless OMGUS vote to boot.

So for now I'm going to upgrade my FOS on CJM:

Unvote, Vote CJMiller

[kirroha]

The reason I find it suspicious is not because you are defending yourself and not because you are doing things pro-town, but it is suspicious because you are unnecessarily describing and/or implying that what you are doing in this game as being pro-town actions, when doing so it not necessary.

Of course it is necessary. You have been picking the things I had done and throwing them at me even though they are pro-town actions. Thus, I have to explain to you that it is pro-town. Like for example, you said, "Why are you being so defensive? If you're Town you shouldn't care much" (it's not the exact quote, I am too lazy to find the original, but he asked something along those lines) and of course, I have to answer that what I was doing (aka defending myself) is considered pro-town.

If what you are doing is pro-town, it will speak for itself. You don't have to and shouldn't preempt it by saying or explaining that you are doing something because that's what town would do or because someone else might think that if you didn't do something you would be perceived as scummy. This shouldn't be confused with not explaining things, just to avoid certain kinds of explanation in certain ways.

Well, I started off assuming it would speak for itself, but you misunderstood my good intentions for bad and thus you use my actions against me. Thus, of course I have to explain. I can't leave misunderstandings as they are. Nobody, town or scum, would do such a thing. It would be helpful if you can try putting yourself in my shoes. (:

So, kirroha, seeing as how you still think I'm scum, why haven't you replied to my defense or pushed your interrogation? If you think I'm scum, you should be going after me. After all, it's what a townie would do.

Patience, it was my school break time when I last posted and I only had like 10 minutes, thus I only made a short post. Later I'll interrogate you, since you seem so keen about being questioned.

[kirroha]

Oh and also: I think it's weird why all the suspicions fell onto me just because of one single reason: I suspected Percy of buddying. That has long since been cleared in an earlier post, so please review it.

[kirroha]

Okay, kabenon007, don't think I'm going to stop attacking you just yet.

In fact, you seem pretty anxious for my reply. Are you trying hard to see whether I'll still suspect you or not?

Also, all the "defences" that you have made are defences against Percy's and iamausername's questions. Yet you are anxious about MY thoughts. You are either anxious for my thoughts, trying to prove that I am scum for not posting, or both. And why would you want to make me seem like scum? Well, because I have the second most votes now, and it wouldn't be too hard getting me lynched, right?

Really, people - if I ever get lynched and you all are sure of my identity, please read through my posts again. I don't want to die and watch the game go without being able to continue posting about why I think that kabenon is scum.

Anyway:

So, kirroha, seeing as how you still think I'm scum, why haven't you replied to my defense or pushed your interrogation? If you think I'm scum, you should be going after me. After all, it's what a townie would do.

"After all, it's what a Townie would do"... Is that supposed to be in a mocking tone? I'm not sure, but since the main reason why semioldguy and Artem have been suspecting me is "because I'm trying to appear Too Townie", and then you say "After all, it's what a townie would do."

Nobody likes me when I'm angry.

Hmm, why, I wonder? What exactly happens when you're angry?

I like to respond in a way that is non-threatening and trying to be helpful just by giving what they are asking for.

That seems to also fall in place with what semioldguy and Artem have been accusing me for - for being "Too Townie". I'm sorry, but I don't find the posts you make "non threatening" and "trying to be helpful". In fact, in most of your posts, you come off as frustrated and rather angry to me.

Sometimes people just piss me off though.

For voting for you? Well, because we think you are scum. Prove us otherwise.

While this may sound good, I prefer not to quote unquote lead the town anywhere, because if I am leading them in a direction I believe to be a scum lynch, one can never be one hundred percent sure, so I prefer to put out reasons why my direction is appealing, why I am heading in that direction, and then let the town decide for itself whether it wants to follow me, rather than lead. Does that clear things up a bit for you, username?

A good townie never worries about looking scummy. Whoever you think is scum, VOTE FOR THEM! Don't hesitate. If you really are Town, you will truly regret it when you suspect somebody at first but is too afraid of looking scummy and end up saying, "I just knew you were scum!" when it's way too late. It feels like crap, trust me.

This is why I'm attacking you with such intensity. I believe you are scum. And like what I said, prove me otherwise.


And all the rest of your quotes are replies to others. As I don't understand what exactly you are talking about with the previous persons, I would rather you reply to my messages instead.

[PsychoSniper]

Ok, I'm afraid I have another apology to make, this time to everyone including (especially) the Mod.

Mod: Sorry about this, but I need to be replaced. I just found out a few hours ago that I'll be going for an overseas assignment. Going by past experience, this is going to limit my personal internet access to no more than a couple of hours per week, which judging by how fast this game has been moving will just kill me trying to keep up with it. Sorry for the inconvenience caused.

[Tarballs]

Search for a replacement has begun.

A new vote count is coming up once we get to the next page.

[iamausername]

From what you said I think you're just trying hard to squeeze things to explain your bandwagoning vote. If you had had reasons earlier, you would've posted earlier.

Really? You think scum would just leap onto a bandwagon this early in the game without any thought of what they could use to justify it, and not expect to be caught out?

These are not rhetorical questions, kirroha.

Thus, I think you're just posting all these to make yourself seem more innocent. It is very scummy in my opinion.

So, if he was town, what should he do instead when people ask him to give his reasons?

Neither is this.

You see, it's not like a pro-towner won't defend herself. Like for example, a pro-towner is being voted for. Would he just let himself get voted quietly, thinking, "Well, after I die, they'll gain valuable information" or would they defend themselves and try to convince the others to suspect someone whom he thinks is real scum?

And yet you say this as a point against kabenon:

Thus, I think you're just posting all these to make yourself seem more innocent. It is very scummy in my opinion.

Pretty big double standard there.

This isn't a rhetorical question either. Probably because it's not any sort of question. But I think it still warrants some sort of response.

---

This is how the day proceeds, whether we get out of the RVS sooner or later. But later is better - it's the best way to prepare us for the day.

It generates content for everyone

, and establishes personality reads that can be scrutinized later.

Bolded is the part that I entirely object to. By keeping things stuck in light-hearted silliness, you don't generate

content

, you generate irrelevant bullshit. And none of the supposed benefits you ascribe to your strategy are in any way unique to the random voting stage. You can still establish personality reads from what people say about actual game-relevant things, with the added benefit that they're also talking about actual game-relevant things.

While this may sound good, I prefer not to quote unquote lead the town anywhere, because if I am leading them in a direction I believe to be a scum lynch, one can never be one hundred percent sure, so I prefer to put out reasons why my direction is appealing, why I am heading in that direction, and then let the town decide for itself whether it wants to follow me, rather than lead. Does that clear things up a bit for you, username?

Sure. I mean, if you present reasons why your direction is appealing, and enough town decide that you're right to result in a lynch, well, I would say that you did lead that lynch. But splitting hairs about definitions isn't really going to get us anywhere useful.

But, kabenon, which direction

are

you heading in right now?

If you really think I'm scum, or "Too Townie", as you said - I can't stop you. There's a Wikipage on Too Townie.

"Trying too hard to look town" is not the same thing as "Too Townie".

"After all, it's what a Townie would do"... Is that supposed to be in a mocking tone? I'm not sure, but since the main reason why semioldguy and Artem have been suspecting me is "because I'm trying to appear Too Townie", and then you say "After all, it's what a townie would do."

That seems to also fall in place with what semioldguy and Artem have been accusing me for - for being "Too Townie". I'm sorry, but I don't find the posts you make "non threatening" and "trying to be helpful". In fact, in most of your posts, you come off as frustrated and rather angry to me.

And again, you keep on using this as a point against kabenon. If it's not a valid argument against you, then why is it a valid argument against him?

While this may sound good, I prefer not to quote unquote lead the town anywhere, because if I am leading them in a direction I believe to be a scum lynch, one can never be one hundred percent sure, so I prefer to put out reasons why my direction is appealing, why I am heading in that direction, and then let the town decide for itself whether it wants to follow me, rather than lead. Does that clear things up a bit for you, username?

A good townie never worries about looking scummy. Whoever you think is scum, VOTE FOR THEM! Don't hesitate. If you really are Town, you will truly regret it when you suspect somebody at first but is too afraid of looking scummy and end up saying, "I just knew you were scum!" when it's way too late. It feels like crap, trust me.

This is really not responding to what kabenon actually said. Nowhere in that post did he say anything about not voting the people he finds suspicious, only that he doesn't plan to be particularly forceful about urging others to do so.

---

CJ, so far, you have really shown zero indication that you are interested in finding scum. Do something about it, or I will be forced to conclude that you don't need to find them, because you already know who they are, because you are one of them.

[kabenon007]

But, kabenon, which direction are you heading in right now?

That is a question I'm actually still trying to answer myself. At the moment I'm leaning towards voting for kirroha, because she is not answering questions posed to her, rather than coming up with a case against me, she quotes basically my entire post and asks questions about random lines that have nothing to do with my scumminess.

"After all, it's what a Townie would do"... Is that supposed to be in a mocking tone? I'm not sure, but since the main reason why semioldguy and Artem have been suspecting me is "because I'm trying to appear Too Townie", and then you say "After all, it's what a townie would do."

Ding ding ding, we have a winner. Sarcasm, so point refuted.

Nobody likes me when I'm angry.

Hmm, why, I wonder? What exactly happens when you're angry?

Once again, any relevance to the case against me? The only possible connection I can see you making is "when you're angry, people die, cuz ur the scumz."

I like to respond in a way that is non-threatening and trying to be helpful just by giving what they are asking for.

That seems to also fall in place with what semioldguy and Artem have been accusing me for - for being "Too Townie". I'm sorry, but I don't find the posts you make "non threatening" and "trying to be helpful". In fact, in most of your posts, you come off as frustrated and rather angry to me.

It's not Too Townie because I'm not saying "I'm saying things in a non-threatening way because that's how townies should say things." I've seen townies be complete and utter a#@holes, but they were townies. I'm saying that when someone questions me with relevant information, I reply in a civil manner. And most of my posts have not been frustrated or angry, more like attacking and questioning. There is a difference. Sarcasm does not equal anger.

And all the rest of your quotes are replies to others. As I don't understand what exactly you are talking about with the previous persons, I would rather you reply to my messages instead.

Why don't you understand what exactly I'm talking about? You would if you are reading the thread. I quote the person before I respond, how can you not know what I'm talking about unless you aren't reading the thread to its fullest extent and instead are tunnel visioning yourself on one person: me.

You know, username, I've made up my mind as to my direction, at least for Day 1.

Vote:kirroha

That last bit is what sold me on it. Scum don't read the thread fully. They can afford to just skim it because they don't need to search the thread carefully for clues as to who the scum are because they aren't searching for scum.[/quote]

[Artem]

@Kirrhoa:

I should probably rephrase it better. I don't think you're

too townie

. In fact, quite the opposite: I find you scummy, because you are

trying too hard to appear townie

.

Of course it is necessary. You have been picking the things I had done and throwing them at me even though they are pro-town actions. Thus, I have to explain to you that it is pro-town. Like for example, you said, "Why are you being so defensive? If you're Town you shouldn't care much" (it's not the exact quote, I am too lazy to find the original, but he asked something along those lines) and of course, I have to answer that what I was doing (aka defending myself) is considered pro-town.

So, why was it necessary to explain that just defending yourself wasn't going to get the town anywhere? As far as I remember, nobody was saying that you're just defending and not attacking at that point in the game:

Okay, purely defending myself isn't going to let the Town go anywhere. I've read through all the posts, so I should post a bit on what I think about the players here so far.

This is not a response to somebody "picking up things that you have been doing and throwing them back at you". This is an explanation that what you're about to do is what a good townie should do. I'm with the semioldguy: a townie should let their actions speak for themselves.

This is why I'm attacking you with such intensity. I believe you are scum. And like what I said, prove me otherwise.

Frankly, I don't feel the intensity. In the entire post, I couldn't find a single point of accusation, besides "You're scum. Prove otherwise."