Mini 762 - Secret-role Mafia, Status: Mod Gone, Plug Pulled

[AWA]

Perhaps I should elaborate a bit:
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I don't have a read on Beyond yet

I truly don't have a read on him; while he has posted a lot of content, it has been largely neutral. Consider me sitting the fence with him

TCold is super-lurking

Not much to say here

Ash hasn't posted much more

Not much to say here

AWA is definitely scum, let's lynch him! (</sarcasm>, in case you missed it. Last game, people did...>.>)

I try to be as amicable and humorous as I can be in the first day, and I always include a "Oh we should lynch AWA" comment in my first list of feelings (check my meta for other examples). I'll stop if you guysing think it's a bad idea.

Xenaroth responds to and attacks other players; overaggressiveness is antitown (not necessarily scum!)

I had a player like this in one of my previous games; and while he didn't turn out to be scum, he was extremely irritating later in the game. While I'm not necessarily stating that you will be irritating, I'm just posting from past experience.

skitzer hasn't posted much

Again, not much to say...

I'm getting a bad vibe from Lowell...call it gut feeling

Gut feeling, I don't have any evidence, but I just have this feeling

millar comes off as a bit immature

A few of his recent posts just made him come off that way a bit. It's early yet; I may be misreading him.

NabNab appears to be well-versed in formal arguments...not anti-town, but could be tricky in middle/endgame

I too know all about formal argument, and in my previous game, there would be looong posts by someone very similar. All I'm saying is that we need to watch out for him; he has the potential to be dangerous.

Elias is kind of shifty to me

Not much to say here, it's like Lowell; I just get a shifty vibe from him

Simpor has only made one real post, and it was a wagon.

I wasn't actively attacking you, I was just writing an observation. Don't get so defensive...

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Hope that's a little clearer.

[NabakovNabakov]

Sex is irrelevant to me. Elias, admittedly, was dumb of me. Should have known male, but this isn't really game relevant.

You're right, it's not really game relevant, but I would point out that if you were actually looking at my posts at the time you espoused on my argument forming abilities, my gender sign would have been right at hand.

My read on AWA is "lack of posts" thus "undetermined."

Bullshit. The same goes for the vice-versa, AWA. How could you not have a read on the player whose (substantial) commentary you were responding to?

I assume that your arguments will eventually show your scum/town. The characteristics of your argument will be inherent of your alignment is my working theory.

Also, wrong (though potentially not bullshit). I endeavor to keep my arguments on the fair side of logic, but regardless of my allignment, that doesn't always happen; I am human. Either you are stating the obvious here (ie "I will learn about you from what you post") or you are holding me to an unrealistic standard, possibly with the intention of tearing me down from it at some point in the future.

And what's all this about my "potential to be dangerous?" I think this might have been the question that started it all, but: What's so dangerous about formal argument?

[Wall-E]

millar13 will not be replaced, at his own request.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Sex is irrelevant to me. Elias, admittedly, was dumb of me. Should have known male, but this isn't really game relevant.

You're right, it's not really game relevant, but I would point out that if you were actually looking at my posts at the time you espoused on my argument forming abilities, my gender sign would have been right at hand.

False. You assume I look at the side panel. I see your name by cursory glance, and I do find that the sex symbol is a fairly minor portion of the overall post (of anyone. Event he infamous Zwet one liners.)

I assume that your arguments will eventually show your scum/town. The characteristics of your argument will be inherent of your alignment is my working theory.

Also, wrong (though potentially not bullshit). I endeavor to keep my arguments on the fair side of logic, but regardless of my allignment, that doesn't always happen; I am human. Either you are stating the obvious here (ie "I will learn about you from what you post") or you are holding me to an unrealistic standard, possibly with the intention of tearing me down from it at some point in the future.

And what's all this about my "potential to be dangerous?" I think this might have been the question that started it all, but: What's so dangerous about formal argument?[/quote]

1. Not wrong. I count on your humaness to betray your logic and thus reveal alignment.

2. Your formal argument may prevent you from being easily readable and thus, potentially dangerous.

[millar13]

Me a bit immature? ummmm....your spot

[NabakovNabakov]

1. Not wrong. I count on your humaness to betray your logic and thus reveal alignment.

2. Your formal argument may prevent you from being easily readable and thus, potentially dangerous.

I am human regardless of alignment, and I have used imperfect logic as both town and scum because I am imperfect. Again, you're holding me to an unreasonable standard.

This unreasonable standard actually contradicts your second statement. If you're so certain my arguments will reveal my allignment, how can they also make me hard to read? How can explaining my thought processes and accusations in a expanded and logical manner possibly make me harder to read anyway?

[Lowell]

Quick runthrough:

5- nabokov self-votes
10- xena votes nabokov for self-voting
16- nabokov unvotes
20s- Lowell and Elias argue about xena
32- skitzer votes xena for lurker comments [+]
38- nabokov votes lowell for xena vote
57- BB votes xena for being non-committal [+]
61- elias votes millar
62- ash votes millar
60s- elias and millar get hostile
74- simpor votes millar for being active in other games but not here
75, 77- millar requests replacement
80- millar retracts, votes elias for ad hominem [+, odd but townish]
84- awa gives quick run-through of characters [-, not particularly profound]
95- Lowell declares millar town
99- skitzer runs down the cast of suspects [+, decent]
100- as does AWA [+]

Thoughts:

Nothing much doing so far. I think

millar

is town, based largely (strangely) on posts 75, 77, and 80. At first I would have pegged him as a "I'm taking my ball and going home!" caught scum, but with his reemergence to the game I think he's town.

simpor

I could do without. The only thing he's done is show up to vote millar. The timing of his vote on millar doesn't sit well, as it came at the heart of the elias/millar vitriol. If the "town at large" were to try to take sides there, scum would be well served to get in early, which is what I think simpor might have been doing.

BB

and

elias

look very townish to me. What strikes me about this game is how little arguing anyone is doing. Mostly it's just people listing what they think of everyone (see: this post). BB and elias are the only ones really stirring it up. This is a credit to them.

xena

looks worse as time goes on. At first he spent a lot of time worrying about who was and who wasn't posting enough for his liking. That struck me as scummy, but would be fine if that's the kind of player he is (ie. overattentive). Since the game has settled down he doesn't seem to have anything else to say. It makes me think he was using metagame posts at the beginning because he didn't want to risk saying anything incriminating.

fos simpor

, and I'll go back to my original thought and

vote xena

[skitzer]

Nab in 101: Not necessarily dangerous. You're really useful if your town and forming good arguments; however, if you are mafia, your persuasion tactics can be devastating for the town.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Ah, skitzer can read the paradox. *Acknowledges Lowell's post.

[Xenaroth]

I have been extremely busy with university over the past few days. Will give a long post with more in game content later tonight (6 -7 hrs time)

[quote ="Lowell"]

xena

looks worse as time goes on. At first he spent a lot of time worrying about who was and who wasn't posting enough for his liking. That struck me as scummy, but would be fine if that's the kind of player he is (ie. overattentive). Since the game has settled down he doesn't seem to have anything else to say. It makes me think he was using metagame posts at the beginning because he didn't want to risk saying anything incriminating.
[/quote]


Xen

[Xenaroth]

GAH, hit the wrong button but i think you guys get the idea. my satatement is in responce to Lowell's post

[Wall-E]

Votecount 1-5

[3] Xenaroth

Lowell, skitzer, Beyond_Birthday

[3] millar13

Elias_the_thief, Simpor, AshKetchummm

[1] AshKetchummm

TCold

[1] Beyond_Birthday

Lowell

[1] skitzer

Xenaroth

[1] Lowell

NabakovNabakov

[1] Elias_the_thief

millar13

[0] TCold

[0] AWA

[0] NabakovNabakov

[0] Simpor

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch and end Day 1.

[AWA]

Mod: I unvoted

Fixed. - the mod

[AshKetchummm]

I don't think Millars scum, I think he may just be a very fustrated townie...so I'm going to

Unvote

The vote I had on him was only for him to stop being so lurky.

my main suspision right now is Xenaroth he was going after players right from the get go and looking for someone to lynch right of the back.

so I'll

Vote-Xenaroth

until he gives good reasons as why not to vote for him.

[Xenaroth]

I see I'm on L-2. not cool.

Lets see those who have voted against me:

skritzer

I'm not to sure if this is ment to be a real vote or not as it was her first post. i dont see a real arguement in her posts so I'm not going to respond to her vote. Also its basically an RVS early OMGUS sytled vote :-/

Beyond_Birthday

You've voted for me because you didn't like my early "attack" on skritzer. i cannot express explaination better than NabNab did here:

Seriously guys, look at what Lowell has done here. He drops a vote on Xenaroth shortly after Xenaroth gets himself in some hot water with a bad joke. He's shown some inexperience, and the mob is gumbling, so a good time to start a wagon, right?

Lowell calls him on focusing on Skitzer, but he doesn't think it through (really, in a game with no confirmation stage, it's entirely plausible that a player could be left accidentially in the dark). Yes, 20 was the second time in a row Xenaroth mentioned Skitzer, but it was made only 13 minutes after 18, essentially a double-post. Elias lodges a complaint, and Lowell responds first by professing ignorance, then by issuing vagaries, then with the post-facto justification I mentioned in 38.

My calling attention to Skritzer was

NOT

an attack I was trying to get people who hadn't posted/confirmed to come out of the shadows my "aggresive" actions all happened in the RVS.

Lowell

You've voted for me because I caused a bit of rukus early on and then went quiet and you think this is scummy. I would say that I'm a more attentive player than most. My reason for a low post content for the previous two pages of post is that I am at University and have tests and projects and am thus very busy. I am also from South Africa and our ISP is not the most reliabe service. I lose my net connection for long periods while Telkom does "scheduled routine service". i do try stay active as bset I can I've just had a few bad days for posting for the past few days.

AshKetchummm

Your vote for me makes me feel quite uneasy. You vote for me and give a rather weak reason for doing so whilest knowing that your vote puts me on L-2 as the Mod has just posted the V-count. You unvote Elias to stop being Lurky (ironically exactly what i did for skitzer which is part of your complaint) You also have only posted 5 times so you infact seem lurkerish to me.

If people want me to qualify my arguements any more I'll post after my test tomorrow (I should be able to post roughly 14 hrs from now).

I'll see what responces I get from this as I have my own suspisions as to who is scummy and will post with my replies as I think this is a large enough for one post.

Xen

[Beyond_Birthday]

I see I'm on L-2. not cool.

Lets see those who have voted against me:

skritzer

I'm not to sure if this is ment to be a real vote or not as it was her first post. i dont see a real arguement in her posts so I'm not going to respond to her vote. Also its basically an RVS early OMGUS sytled vote :-/

Beyond_Birthday

You've voted for me because you didn't like my early "attack" on skritzer. i cannot express explaination better than NabNab did here:

Seriously guys, look at what Lowell has done here. He drops a vote on Xenaroth shortly after Xenaroth gets himself in some hot water with a bad joke. He's shown some inexperience, and the mob is gumbling, so a good time to start a wagon, right?

Lowell calls him on focusing on Skitzer, but he doesn't think it through (really, in a game with no confirmation stage, it's entirely plausible that a player could be left accidentially in the dark). Yes, 20 was the second time in a row Xenaroth mentioned Skitzer, but it was made only 13 minutes after 18, essentially a double-post. Elias lodges a complaint, and Lowell responds first by professing ignorance, then by issuing vagaries, then with the post-facto justification I mentioned in 38.

My calling attention to Skritzer was

NOT

an attack I was trying to get people who hadn't posted/confirmed to come out of the shadows my "aggresive" actions all happened in the RVS.

Lowell

You've voted for me because I caused a bit of rukus early on and then went quiet and you think this is scummy. I would say that I'm a more attentive player than most. My reason for a low post content for the previous two pages of post is that I am at University and have tests and projects and am thus very busy. I am also from South Africa and our ISP is not the most reliabe service. I lose my net connection for long periods while Telkom does "scheduled routine service". i do try stay active as bset I can I've just had a few bad days for posting for the past few days.

AshKetchummm

Your vote for me makes me feel quite uneasy. You vote for me and give a rather weak reason for doing so whilest knowing that your vote puts me on L-2 as the Mod has just posted the V-count. You unvote Elias to stop being Lurky (ironically exactly what i did for skitzer which is part of your complaint) You also have only posted 5 times so you infact seem lurkerish to me.

If people want me to qualify my arguements any more I'll post after my test tomorrow (I should be able to post roughly 14 hrs from now).

I'll see what responces I get from this as I have my own suspisions as to who is scummy and will post with my replies as I think this is a large enough for one post.

Xen

Against Skrit: You make it sound like a RV OMGUS, which is fault since he didn't post at the time of your vote. This is a blatant lie. Also, you say your jut going to ignore the arguments because you can't make sense of them... seems evasive. Well, no... it doesn't seem that way, it is.

Against Me: I wouldn't have an issue with your defense if you were the one to write it or constructed your own defense.

Against Lowell: ...well...what he said is scummy of you is true. And you didn't bother to provide an explanation for it or really address/resume the earlier "rukus[sic]." Why would you stir something up and then not return to your point during your return, assuming that there was a real reason for your absence?

Against Ash: You call him lurkerish and then state that his reasoning is weak without explaining your view.

Also: Of course you have to support your arguments.

[AshKetchummm]

.

AshKetchummm

Your vote for me makes me feel quite uneasy. You vote for me and give a rather weak reason for doing so whilest knowing that your vote puts me on L-2 as the Mod has just posted the V-count. You unvote Elias to stop being Lurky (ironically exactly what i did for skitzer which is part of your complaint) You also have only posted 5 times so you infact seem lurkerish to me.

I never had a vote on Elias, I had a vote on Millar, and that was back when we were trying to get him to post more.

I agree that I havn't posted much, there really hasn't anything very prominent to happen or be said as of yet. And my lurkiness hasn't been anything near that of Millar, yet you don't mention him.

[Simpor]

I don't find much to comment on so far.

Mod is there a deadline? Or can we request a deadline? And also prod TCold

There is no deadline currently. You and two others together may request one. Prod request granted. - the mod

[NabakovNabakov]

I don't find much to comment on so far.

What about the several player-by-player evaluations that have already been posted? What about the discussion building around an L-2 wagon?

@Xenaroth: It makes me uncomfortable when you appropriate my posts like that.
@BB: But that doesn't mean you can completely discount the argument contained therein. What obligates a player to find his own defense?

my main suspision right now is Xenaroth he was going after players right from the get go and looking for someone to lynch right of the back.

I would like more explanation of this, because that was not my impression.

[AshKetchummm]

Can I hear what your impression is so we can "compare notes" so to speak?

[Wall-E]

TCold has been prodded. If he is prodded again, he will be modkilled. Bum bum bum...

[Beyond_Birthday]

@BB: But that doesn't mean you can completely discount the argument contained therein. What obligates a player to find his own defense?

Because, if I attack a player, I want their defense and their reaction.

TCold has been prodded. If he is prodded again, he will be modkilled. Bum bum bum...

Oh...um...can we request replacement over mod kill?

You and two others can request one. - the mod

[Lowell]

A lot of inactives right now...

[millar13]

i concur

[Beyond_Birthday]

Yes, and your two one liner 0% content posts have been ever so helpful. I would expect this from Lowell though, so:

Vote Millar