Mini #764: Notre Dame Mafia, Game Over

[ortolan]

I think anyone (in addition to AceMarksman) who passed the 1/4 nk cards should claim.

But otherwise, I guess charter has it (seeing as ABR said he passed two nk cards).

charter do you have two night-kill cards or just one?

[KidIcarus]

Reason for FOS?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Massclaim favors scum.

[Kast]

Checking in. I've done a quick read. I'll be gone for the weekend but I'll respond more in depth on Monday. Enjoy your weekend's all.

I think Kinetic's disagreement with Charter's and some points of my analysis just show how screwed up his original concept of catching scum through a mass cardclaim would have been.

His analysis of Plague is spot on and mimics what I've been saying.

His analysis of 1/4 NK and 1/2 cop are completely screwed up, as is his implicit assertion should be prioritizing defensive drafting OVER drafting cards to play.

Quick run on 1/4 NK:
-There are 12 1/4 NK cards, total of 3 *bonus* night kills. Townies only have to hold on to 5 of these cards to limit scum to only 1 bonus kill and 3 wasted nights.
-Anyone who assumes that every single townie will first draft pick 1/4 NK is UTTERLY STUPID. Scum only needs one passed to receive 1 bonus kill.
-It is extremely unlikely that scum will get 4 1/4 NK cards to use within the first draft round (haven't run numbers but if needed I'll do so on Monday). First draft round they also would likely be drafting plague as top priority which further reduces the chance of gaining a bonus NK.

1/2 Cop:
It takes two of these. If a townie is passed one, then absolutely take it as you are GUARANTEED to get another one. In the event of a mass card claim, it becomes even more valuable since the town can potentially coordinate to make the 1/2 cops actually useful (both successfully investigating AND successfully keeping that investigation alive if necessary).

Playing cards and burning cards:
You must play one card each night. There is value in depriving scum of cards, but there is also huge value in using cards.

In Kinetic's own case, he is stuck with three scummy cards and must play two of the three.
-Unless he successfully vigs or can safely target an apothecary player (which assumes a mass card claim), he's just doing them a favor.
-The 1/4 NK isn't necessarily bad for a townie to play, but it's a waste of a night.
-Rats are useful to scum throughout the game, and with no possibility for townies sending in a night kill tonight, he can only help scum by playing the rat. Understandably, he asserts that he will not use this.

I agree with the point on defensive drafting plague cards in Draft #1.

Anyway, there's probably a lot more and I will go more in depth on Monday.

Have a great weekend all.

@Kinetic-
Try using more reasons and less emotional appeal in some of your points. Emphatically stating that something is true does not necessarily mean it is.

[Kast]

Also, as stated before, I am willing to proceed with a mass card claim. If people want to wait on me to give my cards before sharing theirs, say so and I'll do it when I get back on Monday.

[charter]

I think anyone (in addition to AceMarksman) who passed the 1/4 nk cards should claim.

But otherwise, I guess charter has it (seeing as ABR said he passed two nk cards).

charter do you have two night-kill cards or just one?

One. I'm against massclaim now. I also don't understand why we would just claim plague and cop, can someone explain?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Plague because we should know if town kills town, and not give the scum an out.

The rest we shouldn't claim because they are defensive cards that we will use to counteract the scum, or find them in the case of cop.

[charter]

Makes sense, that's fine.

[Kinetic]

I think plague claims are a good idea.

[ortolan]

so you passed a night-kill card to Kast charter?

[zwetschenwasser]

I have Plague! Hai guyz

[Albert B. Rampage]

Vote zwet

This man should not have any offensive type cards.

[AceMarksman]

Ok, I'm all for plague claims.
Ok, round one I took a plague over a 1/4 nightkill and a sanctuary because plague would be the worst card of the three to be passed to scum (not that I think ABR is scum atm, but still...)

I'm not going to use it unless there's some obv scum out there.

This man should not have any offensive type cards.

^this.

[Kinetic]

I do plan on using my plague as a vig would.

Albert, did you take the 1/4th NK or pass it? (I didn't look back if you said this already)

[Albert B. Rampage]

I passed them both.

[AceMarksman]

I do plan on using my plague as a vig would.

Why?

[Kinetic]

I do plan on using my plague as a vig would.

Why?

One because I can, and two because its better than using Rat. Plus I've never been a Vig and kind of want to do it, lol. I'll claim who I killed Day 4 if I'm still alive.

[Kinetic]

I do plan on using my plague as a vig would.

Why?

One because I can, and two because its better than using Rat. Plus I've never been a Vig and kind of want to do it, lol. I'll claim who I killed Day 4 if I'm still alive.

Or Day 2 or 3 if I suddenly feel that person is town so someone can maybe send them an Apoth.

[AceMarksman]

*adds Kinetic to the list of people I don't trust with a plague*

Plagueing someone without 1) getting the town's consensus before hand 2) telling the town the day afterwords is scummy. There's no pro-town motivation to killing someone without the consent of the town.

[Albert B. Rampage]

*adds Kinetic to the list of people I don't trust with a plague*

Plagueing someone without 1) getting the town's consensus before hand 2) telling the town the day afterwords is scummy. There's no pro-town motivation to killing someone without the consent of the town.

Yup I agree.

[Kinetic]

*adds Kinetic to the list of people I don't trust with a plague*

Plagueing someone without 1) getting the town's consensus before hand 2) telling the town the day afterwords is scummy. There's no pro-town motivation to killing someone without the consent of the town.

Ha. I'm not telling the town the day afterword unless I feel them town. Scum can use Apoths too you know, and are much more likely to do so if they get the chance. They don't need an Apoth now, they could draw one next draw which happens Night 3. Actually, that is an interesting question

Mod: Will a player targeted by Plague on Night 1 be able to use the card they draft Night 3 before plague would kill them.

Either way, what do you think a vig is? I'm going to look deep at the players and target the person highest on my scum list. I'm not going to randomly target, and I'm not hiding that I'm going to use it. I'm being very open with that fact. I could have hidden the fact that I've already drawn mine and player clueless when someone died. -.-

[zwetschenwasser]

I'm not lying, btw. I've got Plague, Rat, and Double.

[Kinetic]

*adds Kinetic to the list of people I don't trust with a plague*

Plagueing someone without 1) getting the town's consensus before hand 2) telling the town the day afterwords is scummy. There's no pro-town motivation to killing someone without the consent of the town.

Yup I agree.

Bullshit ABR. You care about consensus about as much as a sun cares about the moon. You just want YOUR input.

Anyway, its impossible to get that consensus because the consensus requires us to inform scum of our target and that is a bad idea.

[Kinetic]

I'm not lying, btw. I've got Plague, Rat, and Double.

wow, so you could either Double Plague N2, or Play Double N2 and hope to draw something useful off the 3rd day draft to double (maybe a Doc or Apoth).

[AceMarksman]

Either way, what do you think a vig is?

A player who can kill every night and the kill is PREDICTABLE.
With a plague kill, the player isn't killed the night that they are infected. So, unless there is some flavor that goes along with a plague kill, the town won't know when that kill took place. Plague leaves too many variables, and I'd be willing to lynch a player for using a plague without telling the town first.