-XylBot- Game over! Winners page 56.

[zwetschenwasser]

Xtotm, my point is that his debate with the other two people seems to be full of unrelated points that are quite confusing, which I think he's doing on purpose.

[armlx]

Of course I would suggest stopping the wagon on him. Either town or scum Tar is obviously already pressured.

That's a loose reason to stop a wagon. You stop if under pressure there's no real indication of scumminess. (assuming the initial reason was weak)

[Phate]

We need a massclaim.

Trust me on this.

[armlx]

We need a massclaim.

Trust me on this.

We can't copy paste like in actual IRC.

[zwetschenwasser]

I'm a multiple user personality.

[Phate]

good. Zwet, choose someone to go next. We'll popcorn claim.

[armlx]

I'm not sure about this claim. Only works in IRC as the game size is small.

[animorpherv1]

good. Zwet, choose someone to go next. We'll popcorn claim.

onb Day 1? I don't think so.

[roflcopter]

!vote kevy

Don't think you could have made a post that would make more more suspicious of you than that one...

you're wrong

this is the part where tar's previous threat of a neverending omgus vote actually materializes, proving that tar's supposed evidence against kevy is total crap, because if he had REASON TO BELIEVE that kevy let slip he's mafia then he would not stop voting his caught scum. the fact that he's willing to switch his vote to me in spite of this shows that his blustering is all just smoke and mirrors.

Is Kevy scum?

no

This game has more buses than Grand Central Station the day before Thanksgiving. My head is spinning.

Xtomx, I trust your judgment. Can you explain post 88 in more depth?

for the first time in history i think dgb might be scum this game

but xtoxm is obviously town, despite being wrong

and post 99: tajo asking for us to unvote tar because he's "under enough pressure"... this isn't about pressure, this is about lynching. what a shady way to try and get us off your scumpartner.

i feel like the mod will have made this game at least moderately massclaimproof

however, zwet and phate are looking town

scumlist: tar, uroe, tajo, dgb

[Xylthixlm]

||| MAFIABOT || VOTE COUNT (10 to lynch) |||
||| MAFIABOT || DrippingGoofball - 1 (Empking's_Alt) |||
||| MAFIABOT || KaleiÃ

[Tarhalindur]

I still think Kevy is probable scum, but as of now you're an even better candidate than him. Why? Because you're COUNTERCLAIMED, that's why.

!vote roflcopter

let me ask you one very simple question here.

where did i say that i have role based information on you?

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I now recognize what you are trying to say. There's only 1 consistent scenario here.

!unvote

The only consistent scenario here is that you've been votehopping like mad on the basis of arbitrary percents of scumminess.

Can we lynch Tarhalindur yet? Really the only thing I get out of him is tons of deflection, then doesn't stick to his own story when he gets roasted. Never in my life have I ever seen a person beat around the bush so much about their "foolproof" reason only to have them CHANGE TARGETS AND THEN UNVOTE.

As it stands right now, with a portion of our town not having posted in a while, I want Tarhalindur lynched because no one else is a worthy candidate. I am not only voting you because I think you are bad town, I am also voting you for playing like scum.

I attacked roflcopter because I thought he claimed role-based information on me. TARGETED role-based information, specifically. If he had, I would be in counterclaim position. Since he's claimed nontargeted role-based, I am not in a position to counterclaim.

I backed off of you because I see role-based information saying that you are innocent that I consider more reliable than my own if you are telling the truth, and the downside (the possibility that you are lying) can be ignored for now because if either you or roflcopter are proven to be lying then the other will be lynched instantly. Keep in mind that this is the only reason I am unvoting.

[Tarhalindur]

!vote kevy

Don't think you could have made a post that would make more more suspicious of you than that one...

Back the fuck off of kevy, people. We can deal with him if/when roflcopter comes up not town (or deal with roflcopter when Kevy turns up not town).

[Tarhalindur]

this is just a laugh riot. you not so subtly imply that you have a role based reason to vote for kevy, then you turn around and give us post 72 which is anything but a rolebased reason.

Hint: Rolebased doesn't have to mean investigation. See: Random Mafia 3.

that response is practically a non sequiter when you look at what you were actually responding to. i'm saying if you're so convinced that your role based reasoning makes kevy scum, why did you turn around and try to pound some bullshit non-role reasons down our throat and leave role based reasoning out of it altogether.

1) I still consider Kevy's actions scummy, for reasons listed above. If not for your claimed rolebased information, I would still be attacking him. It's the same kind of situation as town backing off of a player when a cop claims that they are innocent.
2) Why the fuck shouldn't I try to back up rolebased information by demonstrating how the person in question is playing scummily?

Town can't play suboptimally in the early game in an attempt to bait out opportunistic scum/catch more scum later why, exactly?

scum use this same bullshit excuse to explain away their "suboptimal town play" all the time and its getting very stale

Give specific examples from completed games, please. A vague "scum do this all the time" just isn't convincing on its own.

oh please sending me a meta sidequest is not going to accomplish anything here, its just a deflection on your part

The burden of proof here is on you. Defense using "suboptimal town play" is a NULL TELL AT BEST until you prove otherwise - until you do so, I will simply consider this charge totally invalid.

Bad Day 1 play is not a good reason for a vote unless that bad Day 1 play indicates that the player you are voting is more likely to be scum. I've seen far better players than myself play poorly as Town D1 for the reasons I listed in the second sentence of point 2 (see: Glork in Mini 594, Elmo in Battlestar Galactica Mini).

self-deprecating appeals to authority will fool no one

Why should I fucking care if anyone is actually going to believe me? All I can do is to explain why I took the actions I did as town.

and this is a deflection of the initial accusation as well (that being your ata fallacy).

Appeal to authority? Try "showing that there is precedent for town players playing poorly Day 1 to catch scum later" and thus that there is a known town motivation for playing poorly Day - unless you can prove that this is invalid, I have proved that playing poorly Day 1 is a NULL TELL.

[Tarhalindur]

Everything he's been saying!

This is a useless comment, and you know it.

Calling wording of a question a scumtell

Please quote said question, and explain why it is flawed/scummy.

throwing around philosophical garbage

So?

pulling probabilities out of the air

You know very well this is role related.

They're also a heuristic device. They are intended as a shorthand to show how much more likely than baseline (here I'm using 50% as baseline for "no read") it is that someone is scum.

and major vote hopping.

Firstly, Tar has not stuck out to me as having vote hopped. But if he has, why is this scummy? It's not like he's throwing his vote around desperate to get a lynch on just anyone, so I fail to see how you can call this a scumtell.

I am not liking your attitude, zwet.

Since Xtoxm just asked all the questions I would have asked you - answer Xtoxm's questions, zwetschenwasser.

[Tarhalindur]

Xtotm, my point is that his debate with the other two people seems to be full of unrelated points that are quite confusing, which I think he's doing on purpose.

I'm not seeing that at all in my posts. I'm seeing a coherent attack/defense to show how my actions are consistent with a town mindset and how Kevy's actions could be (not are, since there is rolebased on him that I consider more reliable than my own) consistent with a scum mindset. Since you seem to disagree, give EXACT examples of these "unrelated points" that you are seeing, please. Point by point examples.

[Tarhalindur]

I see the current situation as this:
Tar attacked zwet and Kev for weak reasons, IMO. He excused himself with he does silly thing at the beginning of the game.
The rabbit called rolfcopter went crazy against him for reasons I find good enough for post randomstage. I know the rabbit and I can understand his point of view.
The interesting part comes from two sources. Kevy's reaction and Tar's reactions.
Kevy is obviously a IRCer, right? I rally dont like how every post of him there is something like "Im not sure you are scum, you are antitown as shit, so I vote you". I dont know if this is something from IRC but if you are not sure someone is scum then you simply dont vote it just because he is antitown and attacking you.
Now Tar, well its strange. I really thought he was the good player that avoided weak attacks like his at the beginning at the game (Really, attacking zwet?) I really dont know what to think of him other than he is either scum trapped in a series of not so well calculated lies or town trying desesperately to get off the hook without looking worse every time he posts. (something difficult with the rabbit going crazy against him).
Of course I would suggest stopping the wagon on him. Either town or scum Tar is obviously already pressured.
In a second plane, Im really interested in UROE. I have the feeling that he is defending Tar but at the same time supporting Kevi. Can you explain clearly whats your stance in all this mess?

This post is fucking bullshit. A lot of summary, not much interpretation, and what interpretation there is looks crappy (Why should we stop a wagon just because the wagonee is already pressured? Do you think UROE is scum, and if so for what reasons?) with the possible exception of anti-town=/=scum (I've been waffling over whether this is valid of late). This post looks like summary-IIoA to me (dodging commentary by giving summaries).

Also, where the fuck is your usual "you don't give away information as town that might help scum this early in the game" mindset?

!vote populartajo

[DrippingGoofball]

Tar.

~so far~ who is scum, who is town, and why. Thanks ahead.

[DrippingGoofball]

BTW - I reckon where only on page 5 so I'm not expecting airtight cases or opinions you'll keep the whole game. I just want to understand what your thinking is at this moment.

[populartajo]

I see the current situation as this:
Tar attacked zwet and Kev for weak reasons, IMO. He excused himself with he does silly thing at the beginning of the game.
The rabbit called rolfcopter went crazy against him for reasons I find good enough for post randomstage. I know the rabbit and I can understand his point of view.
The interesting part comes from two sources. Kevy's reaction and Tar's reactions.
Kevy is obviously a IRCer, right? I rally dont like how every post of him there is something like "Im not sure you are scum, you are antitown as shit, so I vote you". I dont know if this is something from IRC but if you are not sure someone is scum then you simply dont vote it just because he is antitown and attacking you.
Now Tar, well its strange. I really thought he was the good player that avoided weak attacks like his at the beginning at the game (Really, attacking zwet?) I really dont know what to think of him other than he is either scum trapped in a series of not so well calculated lies or town trying desesperately to get off the hook without looking worse every time he posts. (something difficult with the rabbit going crazy against him).
Of course I would suggest stopping the wagon on him. Either town or scum Tar is obviously already pressured.
In a second plane, Im really interested in UROE. I have the feeling that he is defending Tar but at the same time supporting Kevi. Can you explain clearly whats your stance in all this mess?

This post is fucking bullshit. A lot of summary, not much interpretation, and what interpretation there is looks crappy (Why should we stop a wagon just because the wagonee is already pressured? Do you think UROE is scum, and if so for what reasons?) with the possible exception of anti-town=/=scum (I've been waffling over whether this is valid of late). This post looks like summary-IIoA to me (dodging commentary by giving summaries).

Also, where the fuck is your usual "you don't give away information as town that might help scum this early in the game" mindset?

!vote populartajo

You people, specially you Tar, are understanding this wrong. The only thing I wanted to do was to prevent a quicklynch. The pressure was already there, so there would not be more retarded votes using that as an excuse.
I dont give a shit if you think I was doing IIoA or whatever you call it. So because I comment in the situation, I am scum? Go die on a fire. I CLEARLY stated my opinions and stances of every situation, so try again.
And where did I state that I played like "I don't give away information as town that might help scum this early in the game"? Every game is different and I play each one as I want.
Fianlly I never said UROE was scum. Im asking him becuase he is in a weird stance, supportin both you and Kev. I want him to explain this.
So you are just throwing shit around hoping somebody can be seen as bad as you currently are. Who was scum before? Kevi, rolf, me? Call it OMGUS, I dont fucking care. Please die !vote Tar.

[Xtoxm]

Ok, I think Tar did that on purpose...He's trying to draw attention to himself.

Any of the more experienced IRCers - Any idea what role might have an incentive to do that?

I can't remember if Jester's exist in Wacky...And I know it's generally considered scummy to bring it up...But still...

[UnofficialRulerOfEveryone]

Tar might be reviver trying to prove himself, there's way too many possibilities in wacky to speculate, but Watcher Reviver or some other semi-investigative with a reviver power would work for town-Tar, not sure if he is actually trying to draw attention to himself or not.

Jester's do not exist in wacky IIRC, ask Phate or Kevy though, maybe if I could do month's of testsetuping I could tell you for sure but I don't know.

!vote zwet

He knows exactly why, too, in Open 117 he saw the drawbacks of claiming early and following other experienced people, I believe that he is smart enough to testsetup and find out what a MUP is and fakeclaim, or, if he is town (Or mafia MUP, if that is poss.) he is much stupider town than Tar, that plus his bullshit vote on Tar and the continuation of my random vote, this stays until I find a better target.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

!vote UnofficialRulerOfEveryone

Talking about scum jumping out of windows... Hi UROE!

Tar needs to cool down, and roflcopter needs moar hugz

[zwetschenwasser]

Xtotm, my point is that his debate with the other two people seems to be full of unrelated points that are quite confusing, which I think he's doing on purpose.

I'm not seeing that at all in my posts. I'm seeing a coherent attack/defense to show how my actions are consistent with a town mindset and how Kevy's actions could be (not are, since there is rolebased on him that I consider more reliable than my own) consistent with a scum mindset. Since you seem to disagree, give EXACT examples of these "unrelated points" that you are seeing, please. Point by point examples.

Bingo. Notice that he claims he's actively trying to look town. UroE, I don't understand how to testsetup, and a massclaim could be useful.

[UnofficialRulerOfEveryone]

That's bullshit in the 3rd degree, if you want to massclaim, at least pick someone to go next.

@KScope

Huh?

[zwetschenwasser]

URoE goes next.