Mini 1552 - Paranoia [GAME OVER]

[MTD]

Sorry for not seeing it. The only thing in your favor I can see is that bussing thing.

[shos]

I mean literally, go through my ISO, I went against both flipped scum and protected townies allll the way, except for Lambda of course, which is just my bad :/

[shos]

Well we can be pretty sure it is neither LyLo nor MyLo at the moment, so I don't think it is that relevant at the moment.

Lolno
I just think it is better to know if you are hunting a pair or just one.

Either way, vote PI.

and, if Garmr/Mastin is town where is she? she should be leading this and she should be hammering down on me pretty damn hard if she actually thinks that I'm scum here because she knows I can be pretty slimy, but I don't see any of that at all.

Mainly because I don't really have that much confidence.

VOTE: shos.

Vote PI guys!

Woah I'm not even voting.

Well ok.

VOTE: PrivateI

compare, lol.

[shos]

I really don't think a PrivateI vote is the way to go if you think there's two scum.

Try Dopog.

Why is PI not a good choice with that assumption?
and why dopog is?

Nothing to do with day play.

alright, do you have some role-related info that puts a guilty (or likely puts one) on dopog?

No.

That's all day play.

Dear god I'd obviously claim a day 2 guilty.

Read on PrivateI isn't.

If you want to know more, I'm sure you can figure it out if I flip. If not, I'll tell you more later.

how did I not see this?
I believe that by this post greyICE has already known who the scumteam is, otherwise he wouldn't have posted like that, hardcore defending scum PI

[shos]

PI/mastin.

called it

[shos]

PI/mastin.

Ok let's go at this more mtd;
read on shos?

A bit more town than not.

I like his stances on most things and it seems to me he is trying to be helpful.

I do not like him going "whoa look at me I was so important for lynching Dess" and "I never bus D1".

So yeah, a bit.

lol

[shos]

Mod:

Can I paraphrase the contents of the QT?

I've never played with Mastin, but I know who she is from MD.

Helpful hint, game-me and theory-me are completely different.

How did it go mastin?

Extremely well. I'm still working on fully regaining my focus, my drive, and my passion for the game, but it was a huge improvement from where I was, even if not as good as it could have been. (AP got kinda unresponsive near the end and Empking was a no-show.)

I will be spending quality time with mastin myself when she gets back.

Well, my read on you was apathetic before, but now it's more scum.

Mastin talk to them about their town and scum reads.
talk about previous investigations ect

We had already long, LONG since done that by the time you posted this. I'll do so as soon as Antihero gives the go-ahead to paraphrase. We blazed a bright fire of nearly a hundred posts. (Okay, not quite, but it's closer to 100 than it is to 50, and I'm rounding up to the nearest 50. )

Basic version, when scumhunting AP said Mara was a solid lynch for today, and MTD's alignment was opposite of mine. (We didn't get the time for him to realize I was town. I'll get his stance more accurately defined when I get the go-ahead for the paraphrase.) He was suspicious of shos, but thought that he shouldn't be lynched today. GI's a townread, Guyett's our strongest townread, they've not got a town wincon, and AP posted about a usurper, but later implied that he was lying about that. My posting after that largely focused on using that piece of info for reads, which as I pointed out to him made his claim of there being a mafia usurper stupid because it wasted our time if he was trolling. (For the curious, shos/GreyICE were my picks in this discussion for usurper.)

That's leaving out way too much (and doesn't really feel like it accurately conveys the info), but it's as much as I can share without paraphrasing.

VOTE: MS Marangal.

Overall, leaning towards her and MTD being scum, quite strongly, and that shos is actually town.
I did have a jon scumread, but AP disagreed; we were discussing it before AP did the usurper distraction, and that discussion never got restarted.

this post makes me flip my ass. this lylo is shit

[shos]

With the talking about Town blocs early, if one was formed I'd want shos in mine. He looks to actually be scum hunting, which is more than I can say about some previous ISO's. Shos asks questions, and expects answers.

Shos is one of (and maybe my strongest) my Town reads. I won't be voting him any time soon.

pedit I agree with "Scum is within this group { jonh_61, Ms Marangal, Lady Lambdadelta, dopog}"

I think there's scum in that list.

interesting. let's see johns scum meta.

[mastin2]

I literally spoke about dessew the entire thread, they could just agree if they wanted that. when he said that scum lurked, he marked it with an asterix. I thought it was meaningless at the time.

Except Garmr was active at the time you're saying he was supposedly lurking.

and that quote was supposed to get me nightkilled, it was a 'I am a PR' crumb that never got picked up. as a VT, I hoped to lure the nightkill, thinking that there are other PRs.

This also reads as highly BS, 'specially given that as soon as it was brought up to the cops, they said you were fakeclaiming it.

'see this through' does not mean that I'm ending the game, also, you can see that I haven't really done that xD

Because we never gave you the chance. I almost did. MTD apparently also almost did. We were at each others' throats for quite a bit. Had one of us actually voted the other, you could have. You haven't had a chance; you voting would make a 1v1 that's only a 50% chance at winning.

GreyICE called you scum, mastin

This is a quote snipe of all quote snipes possible. GI called me scum...once.
On D1.
Before he had reason to call his scumbuddies scum.

His reversal of reads into me being town later-on is a good thing.

Also, you're ignoring the point about AP.

AP has perfect accuracy reading me. You know this. You've seen this. He had me as town.

By word of MTD. Who, if town wouldn't be lying and as scum would be, well, scum. In either case, I wouldn't be scum, yet you don't acknowledge that point.

This is the type of scumposting from you that I saw in Under the Sea.

[mastin2]

seriously, you guys should just vote each other x)

Again. This is the same vibe in posting to come from a scum-orc in Tales' lylo.

Actual town players?

Don't like to be the person making the decision. I hate it. It requires a lot of analysis and is a royal pain to do. It's confusing, hard to navigate, and ultimately, in lylo, it's hard to determine who's scum because all the players have town and scum things about them.

Scum players? Obviously want to set up a townVtown fight, which you seem to be doing.

[shos]

that guy literally has no games as scum, only one I could find, in which he entered the game in post 800 and posted 10 posts

[mastin2]

I mean literally, go through my ISO, I went against both flipped scum and protected townies allll the way, except for Lambda of course, which is just my bad :/

So did I. I defended town a lot and attacked scum a lot.
And to a lesser extent, so did MTD. He didn't vote town a lot and didn't exactly strongly defend scum a lot. (Not from memory, anyway; need to double-check that.)

Bluntly, your point here is coming off as being utter total bullshit. You're exaggerating the truth because it suits your ends, and it doesn't look like you're approaching this from a town mindset...at all.

[mastin2]

Like...when I go through posting, I'm going through trying to analyze things.
Same for MTD. I bring points up for consideration.

You, shos...are just quoting them and leaving them there. "Lol, me so town"ing. Which is, basically, what orcinus did in Tales.
I went in suspicious of MTD, MTD went in and considered orc conftown. Orc insisted we crossvote for him to hammer.
I'm not seeing the analysis. I'm not seeing the townness. I'm seeing "get it over with already".

[shos]

@mastin 958:
first quote - garmr started talking loud about ~hour *after* that was posted; I cannot post timestamps here.

seconf quote - why does that make it faulty? the cops were not the ones intended to shoot me.

third - ok, I see your point now. well, you can think that.

fourth - well yes, I developed the idea that GreyICE didn't know all the scum pre-everything only while reading.. as you can see I'm not yet voting you.

your point about AP - firstly, no, I don't know that, and secondly, I'm definitely not going to vote in lylo someone who I considered conftown the entire game just because AP says so. in Under the Sea there was another scumteam, I was legitimately scumhunting there, lol.

what benefit to I get from a TvT fight? I, as scum, just need one of you to think the other is scum. I need only one faulty vote, I don't need an entire bible here.

[shos]

@61-2 If you didn't get it, I'm going through the thread entirely and quoting everything I deem relevant. there's nothing too deep to dig in and analyze for you, you are smart and if town can make your own conclusions. after I'm done I'll reexamine those relevant things and try to make my decision. at the moment, it's an incredibly hard decision. I'd actually like it if either of you (scum) voted me so that i'll be just given the answer, and be asked for the proof.

[shos]

kay I'm stopping at 29 gonna go to sleep. nighty.

[MTD]

that guy literally has no games as scum, only one I could find, in which he entered the game in post 800 and posted 10 posts

I think you missed this one:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=25457

He replaced into there as well, but had

much

more content than in the other one.

[MTD]

fourth - well yes, I developed the idea that GreyICE didn't know all the scum pre-everything only while reading.. as you can see I'm not yet voting you.

What? This makes zero sense.

[MTD]

I mean it doesn't make any sense to assume that grey

didn't

know all scum at any point, does it?

[MTD]

I'm pretty sure Grey, MTD, and Shos are all Town. Mastin hasn't been scum hunting much, but I do understand why.

For reference.
He went for voting mastin in his next post.

[mastin2]

first quote - garmr started talking loud about ~hour *after* that was posted; I cannot post timestamps here.

Except he also posted on the eighteenth, a day before the accusation, too. Meaning that Garmr was plenty active and thus, not lurking.

the cops were not the ones intended to shoot me.

But they were quick to point out the gambit as being fake, and scumread you in part because of it.

as you can see I'm not yet voting you.

But you're planning on it.

your point about AP - firstly, no, I don't know that,

Except yes you do. You just saw it in your Open. AP and I explicitly described this behavior. If you've had any previous game that had both AP and I in it, it would be described there, too, because it applies in basically every single game we share. He doesn't misread me. Ever.

in Under the Sea there was another scumteam, I was legitimately scumhunting there, lol.

But still posting as scum. I'm not talking about scumhunting efforts. (Speaking of which, my understanding is that the surviving scum HAD incentive to legitimately scumhunt anyway, which again counters the main point you've used as your defense.) The way you're thinking. It simply doesn't look like the town shos I've seen in countless games; it seems like your thought is just...different.

what benefit to I get from a TvT fight? I, as scum, just need one of you to think the other is scum. I need only one faulty vote, I don't need an entire bible here.

Uh...you ask what you gain from a TvT fight...and then describe precisely what a TvT fight actually is as what you'd do.

I'm pretty sure Grey, MTD, and Shos are all Town. Mastin hasn't been scum hunting much, but I do understand why.

For reference.
He went for voting mastin in his next post.

Which, again, would be acting against his wincon if I was scum. He listed Grey as town; his scumbuddy was certainly one of the other two, leaving LLD and myself as mislynches. It's good for scum to have one lynch candidate be a mislynch. It's a field day if two or three lynch candidates are mislynches. A scum player not aware of the usurper would be going for the win. So having me as someone available to vote or not-vote is advantageous to a scum wincon.

[MTD]

For now I'm leaning

Town

on

MTD This is more from meta of the last game I played with him. Plus he does look like he wants to catch scum.

Scum

Ms. I don't like that she says if she was scum Mastin would have already found her out, plus a little niggling from a scum game she played with me once upon a time.
Shos did something similar, but what convinces me someone's not scum is sensible scum hunting, at least something I can understand the reasons behind. If accusations are totally screwy, there might be scum.

Null

Everyone else.

pedit I'm also interested in Mastin's experience with the cops. I've had this page up since this morning, it got a lot of posts since then. I can't read them, I have to leave (my wife says NOW!)

@ Mastin Can you give us any insights into if and how the Police can be used to Town's advantage. Did they have any good insights into the game? Who are they suspecting, and why?

Mastin is in that "everyone else" pile btw.

So to me it seems jon has called shos first leaning scum and then (without anything in between if I didn't miss something) strong town.
Mastin he had first as null and then (allegedely because of the cops) as strong scum, but distances himself from that a bit in his next post, then goes for LLD instead.

That bit is interesting. He was the last one in interrogation who said something about it (not counting Grey there), and he says police had a strong scumread on mastin.
@mastin: What about that "AP reads me perfectly" then?
on the other hand ofc it is possible that jon was lying there. he didn't really give much detail, like mastin did (and to some extent shos and I as well) and we didn't have anyone there afterwards to confirm.
He always called me town afaik.

[mastin2]

@mastin: What about that "AP reads me perfectly" then?

Jon was scum.
In what he must've thought was lylo.
Today,

the cops arrested jon

.

He has every incentive to lie about the QT. Claiming he has the support of the cops when he really doesn't gives him leverage. What if the cops had said "Mastin's town, LLD's also fairly town, GI is meh, MTD and shos I dunno, you look like scum" or something to that effect? In what jon thought was lylo...would he actually report that to the thread, that the cops think he's scum?

No. He wouldn't. He has every reason to not only lie, but claim a result contrary to the cops' positions. Notice how he didn't go into detail about the conversations, like you and I did. We both paraphrased. He just said one thing. And that's probably because he couldn't fake an entire QT-worth of their interactions not being what he claimed. It's newbscum play to see a cop guilty claim on you and to counterclaim it; think a modified version of that, where the cops said he was scum but he claimed they thought I was scum.

AP townread me in your interrogation. We don't know what AP said about me in jon's interrogation, because jon never elaborated. But jon's arrest makes it quite evident the cops thought he was scum, and not just any scum, but godfather-scum...which would make the most amount of sense...if jon lied about how their interrogation went.

[MTD]

Mind, that AP doesn't exactly say he townreads you, he says something like "mastin could be scum, but..." and then some points that speak against my points for scumreading you.

But yes jon lying does make sense

[MTD]

Uh,

@mod: that was not quoted intentionally, I just had that at the back of my mind, feel free to delete it if you deem it bad