Open 184: Friends and Enemies Mafia (Over)

[saberwolf]

That's a lynch.

[Albert B. Rampage]

9 days to deadline and you hammered. We could have gotten precious information in those 9 days. Netopalis could have self-hammered. Farside, Shotty and Kitty's slot could have given us more information.

[saberwolf]

once again, my name is never mentioned

[Albert B. Rampage]

[kikuchiyo]

Why did you hammer?

I was bored. Sorry, but this girl likes excitement.

I think Saber is town. Does that make you feel better?

[hewitt]

I like where my vote was when this day ended.

[DarkLightA]

Ahh, welcome kiku... Nice entrance..

[dramonic]

The Thirteenth Votecount: LYNCHED!

DarkLightA (1): SttB
Netopalis (7): Ellibereth, ABR, Ojanen, DarkLightA, Saberwolf, SC, Kikuchiyo
ABR (1): Netopalis
SerialClergyman (1): Farside
Kikuchiyo (1): hewitt
Not Voting (1): KittyMo

A lynch has occured!

Names fly as the townpeople argue back and forth about who to lynch. "Lynch the clergyman, I never trusted religion anyways..." says one. "No, lynch the pet guy, he's been useless thus far!" yells another.
One of you step a bit away from the group and face it. "Why don't we lynch the butler?" you ask, wondering why he never occured more in conversation.
The town grow restless, and the loud roar of the agreeing mob swiftly stops all hope of conversation. Neto can squirm all he wants, your grip on him is too firm and before long he is standing on the edge of the town's steeping cliff with his back against the hole.

"This is a horrible mistake, I'm innocent!" he pleads, his eyes watering.
"Any last wish?" barks one of your fellow townperson.
"Well, if I could-"

The man is cut short as a sledgehammer makes contact with his skull with a disgusting cracking sound.

"What?" asks the seductress, her hands still wrapped firmly around the weapon's handle.

With a mix of interest and fear, you flip each of the butler's many pockets. In one of them you find a little bottle with pills.

"Wait... Is that cyanide?" asks a fellow townie.

Netopalis,

mafia goon,

was sledgehammered day 1

It is now night 1! Action are due by the 17th at 23:59, montreal time (GMT-5)

posting in QT is now allowed, in-thread is now illegal!

[farside22]

I'm locking the thread. Mod just PM me when your ready to have it unlocked or if you get mod powers then you can do it yourself at that point.

[farside22]

opened per request

[dramonic]

You wake up with a very uneasy feeling. Last night, you dreamt of a family being broken... Must have been the effect of the stress from yesterday, with the mafia stuff and all.

You go to the scheduled meeting place, the town square.

1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9...

Nine?

"Hey, anybody seen Farside?" Asks one of your fellow townies.

You don't even take the time to think before you break into a sprint to Farside's house, hoping she simply over overslept or something. However when you get there the house is empty. You walk back to the town square, slowly coming up with theories of her location, when you hear the crash of pans from a house nearby.

"Shouldn't everyone be in the square right now???" You ask yourself as you approach the house and open the front door.

Right away you notice something is definitely wrong when you step into a puddle of very red liquid. You rush to the kitchen and come face to face with Farside.

"So you ARE alive!" You say, feeling slightly better.
"Can't say the same for Albert..."

You look behind Farside to see Albert, badly messed up. He's bleeding buckets of blood, inert on the floor.

"When I was walking to the square I came to pick him up. He was stabbed during the night. Additionally..."

Farside points to a frame on the wall. On it, you can clearly see Albert with two of the townfolks, although the photo is too blurry to make out their identity.

You and Farside pick up your things and make for the square, a bit more down than before.

Albert B Rampage,

mason,

was stabbed to death night 1

It is now day 2! deadline is is the 8th at 23:59, montreal time (GMT-5), but due to the christmas vacations I might lengthen it.

Important note about the flavour: The fact I used Farside should not be considered alignement indicative. I wrote the flavour and then chose a player through RNG to interact. It could have been any of you.

[SerialClergyman]

No surprises there, to be honest. Albery was obvtown and Neto was pretty scummy.

I feel pretty happy just with yesteday, to be honest.

Let's continue where we left off - Shotty being scummy, KittyMo being the scummy incarnation of a scummy slot which has never said a word and kiku quickhammering for little reason.

Shotty - what does the town flip of Albert tell you?

Kiku - what gives?

Kitty - a more thorough post please?

[dramonic]

Kise Replaces KittyMo
Scigatt Replaces Saberwolf

[kikuchiyo]

Kiku - what gives?

I hammered scum. What's the problem?

Kittymo, Hewitt, Farside, Shotty. Not on the wagon.

I highly doubt both scum were bussing.

I think Shotty is most likely scum, Kise should chime in with a day 1 analysis, and hopefully Scigatt will be more helpful than Saber.

Serial: Why exactly did you find Neto scummy? Refresh my memory.

[SerialClergyman]

Because we were all specifically waiting for Ojanen to finish her thoughts and to try to get some more content out of KittyMo when you jumped in and hammered. There was more info to be gained.

This makes it worse, when you then use your first post to turn the spotlight on those not on the wagon. It looks like it's possible that you barged your way onto the wagon to bus neto who was surely going down and then the next day proudly declare to the rest of the group that we should hunt off the wagon.

As for Neto, here:

Neto is also a good chance of flipping scum. He's been voting the same lynchbait targets as would be expected. Suggested a policy lynch without having the balls to actually say lets policy lynch someone, which is a scumtell in my eyes. He did have the balls to vote Albert though, which redeems him slightly, because bringing blue-eyed wrath upon oneself isn't always the best option.

I gave some quotes afterwards to show what I meant. It was in my first content post. I believe it was also the first case posted on Neto, although nowhere near as extensive as Ojanen's excellent one. I'll take the hit to the ego and say he wasn't my top suspect and it wasn't the bullseye that Ojanen's was, but it'll go down in my little black book as a correct read, so can't complain.

[kikuchiyo]

Looks like you're giving Neto points for voting Albert, but stating today that Albert was obvtown. Well done. Albert thought you were scum. You thought Albert was town. You thought Neto had a good chance of flipping scum, but gave him town points for voting Albert. Do I have that right?

[SerialClergyman]

Did you read yesterday? I stated the entire day that ABR was obvtown, called Neto's vote stupid but gave him credit for attacking a big pro-town target. I usually find scum aren't prepared to go after players like Albert because they risk OMGUS cases against them, or risk having their cases exposed as bad. I thought Neto attacking Albert was a point in his favour not because Albert was likely to be scum, but because he wasn't just going after easy mislynches, he was actually going after one of th hardest players to lynch in the game.

See these conversations:

SC: How can you guarantee with 95% certainty that ABR is not scum? To me, his latest actions of failing to vote without providing clear logic are classic scum tactics.

Just read some of his games. ABR loves playing town because he gets more of an ego boost from ripping apart scumteams and bending the town to his will than from sneaking around trying to get mislynches. (Feel free to correct me if I've got this wrong - no offense intended )

Look at the ripe abandon with which he's played this game. If he's faking this level of enthusiasm and drive then he's got me hook line and sinker.

Then add onto that what seems like genuine scumhunting to me (albeit poor hunting) and a presence around the town - I mean the man told me he was going to leave me alive because I was funny. Sheeeer arrogance. He'd never say that as scum, but he's ballsy enough to say it as town, to feel like (often justifyably) he can turn the entire town onto a wagon.

Ugh - I know I'm not being as concrete as you'd probably like, but I love ABR's playstyle and I just sense it big time. It's just obvious to me. Read some of his games and you'll see what I mean, I think.

Nero - You think he's scum and you've seen me out and out defend him D1 without any flips or anything concrete.

What does that make me? Did my answer sway your read?

It did persuade me somewhat that ABR's play may be the result of his pro-town style...although, that being said, I've played in two games with him - one with him as scum and one with him as town. He was actually more sullen and less useful in the one in which he was town. I do know of his reputation in the manner that you discuss, though.

Your defense of ABR does not necessarily paint you as scum if ABR flips scum - it only does so if your defense is for weak reasons. I've often inadvertently defended scum players as town before, as I am sure that everyone else has. The trick is to see whether the defense is irrational or not, in my opinion.

[kikuchiyo]

I get that. It just doesn't jive with your assessment(in the same post) that Neto is going after the easy lynchbait targets. You are trying to have it both ways and I think Albert was keenly aware of this issue regarding your stance. Also, omgus cases are terrible so I inherently disagree with your assessment. I think you are Neto's scumpartner and you were trying to fence sit.

Who else are you suspicious of that was on the wagon yesterday? If you think both scum were on the wagon then who are they? If you don't think both scum were on the wagon, then you really shouldn't have a problem with my decision to go after the four who weren't. So tell me, who do you think is scum?

[DarkLightA]

I hammered scum. What's the problem?

^^ that

-----

I highly doubt both scum were bussing.

Why?

Vote: Kikuchiyo

[kikuchiyo]

Why?

I find it unlikely that both scum would bus on day 1. I find it more likely that scum would attempt to stall the wagon, or redirect it. Therefore, studying the players who made such attempts makes sense to me. I think if one read many games one would find that when scum is lynched on day 1, more often than not, both other scum are not on the wagon.

Same questions to you as to SC: Who else are you suspicious of that was on the wagon yesterday? If you think both scum were on the wagon then who are they? If you don't think both scum were on the wagon, then you really shouldn't have a problem with my decision to go after the four who weren't.

7 players on the wagon. One confirmed town. 6 players on the wagon. If one scum is on and one scum is off then your chances of finding scum are 1/6. 1/4 are better odds and also means less information to sift through.

If anyone was worried about a quick hammer they could have unvoted at any time. Blaming me for a group decision is a little silly. Should I be beyond suspicon? Of course not. But is the hammer the most suspicious place on a day 1 scum wagon? That's debatable, but I think not. It certainly seems to be the easiest place to throw blame, and therefore the easiest place for scum to find a mislynch.

I suggest that those of you who are suspicious of me should instead today try and find who you think is my partner. Its a more logical way of going about scumhunting than serving townkiku up on a silverplatter for the mafia.

SC and DLA should answer my questions.

[Scigatt]

Hi

I didn't have time for an in-depth reading, but in my cursory glance at the game, it seemed to me that Neto was going out of his way to defend CSL/SC. While there are a few plausible interpretations of that, I'm thinking the most likely one is that Neto was trying to save CSL/SCscum while SC was bussing. I'm gonna take a closer at both of them, but for now:

Vote:SerialClergyman

P.S.:Next time, SC, don't quote from games in progress.

[Ellibereth]

Serial: Why would you call a player slot that has close to no posts scummy? It seems it was mostly because of RL reasons...

Shotty: Do you still suspect DLA after Albert flipped town?

Scig: Where did SC quote 'em? Can't find it....

Kik: Don't you think it would have been better to wait a while before you hammered?

I'm a bit short of time right now, but my top suspects are Shotty and DLA. I'll explain why when I get back.

[farside22]

I need to get some quotes and thoughts from this game which is in the works today. Hopefully when I get home I can get a case on 2 of the people I had issue with yesterday
IE: SC and shotty

[Scigatt]

Scig: Where did SC quote 'em? Can't find it....

post 665

[farside22]

Okay there was a lot more then I expected to find. I don't want to post every single post that Neto did that I sense a scum buddy he is trying to protect in my read
First we have DLA:

No, I'm afraid not. I haven't researched his meta otherwise, all I know is that as town he tends to make logical leaps which aren't necessarily warranted.

I also don't like Darklight's play in this game, but I know from a previous game with him that he acts extremely, extremely scummily as town.

Mod: Prod on Toro to go with the prod on Yarmond?

DLA...ugh. I know that last time we lynched him for play like this and he was the doc, but his play is just so...terrible...ugh.

I will vote DLA if the vote count shows that it would not put him in the danger zone.

Essentlally, I find that the whole "lynch me if you want" mentality is used by scum primarily. Due to the fact that scum's goal is survival, it is a way for them to appear town by making it look like they're playing against their goal - or for the town one. Overall, I really don't like his posts - even given that I played with him before and I posted the stuff about his meta.

Neto said all this. Most of this is meta talk and then he talk about voting for him but never does.

As for my not arguing strongly on DLA, that's honestly been because I have prior experience with him and I don't feel that my reads are that accurate for that reason. I'm going to be a lot more likely to find failtown than I will be to find scum within his posts because I framed him in the newbie game that we played. Therefore, I prefer to let those who are more neutral in regards to him lead the way. I'm happy to lynch him, of course - I just don't feel qualified to add a lot to this discussion.

He (Neto) has one defense after another on DLA

Next up CSL:

He talks alot about CSL meta here as well and when CSL gets replaced he uses that to defend CSL's action as well.
Including this little shot:

Honestly, I really think he should be limited until he learns to play a bit better, based on the hardship that he puts on mods - either he will derail the game day 1 or he will need to be replaced. That's neither here nor there, though.

I wipe the replacement's slate clean for acts done by idiots. Fumbling about with bad logic that could be the result of idiocy is not a scumtell and is not transferrable. Actual scummy acts made by intelligent people do, however, create a burden on the replacement - but even then, you can't expect a replacement to know and understand what was going through the mind of the person who he replaced.

Finally, I feel kinda bad about lynching replacements immediately after they replace in. It seems to me that if we were going to lynch CSL regardless of what his replacement was going to say, we should have saved SC the trouble of replacing in and having to reread all of this, and saved the mod the trouble of finding yet another replacement in a game that already needed a ton of them. Therefore, I think that lynching SC today would also be ethically wrong, unless we find him scummy independent of CSL's acts.

He talks about the slackers but the only one's he actual votes is elibeth or saberwolf. He never even mentions Shotty once at all during that whole case.

For now I'm thinking Neto might have been protection DLA using meta defense but when he doesn't excuse saber for his meta for me that just pushes DLA over the edge as a scum buddy with DLA.

Vote: DLA

SC would be also fall under this with the same defense from Neto toward CSL.