Mini 1552 - Paranoia [GAME OVER]

[MTD]

lol, I just realized I voted jon in the beginning, I seriously was thinking I had townread him all the time and felt bad about that.

Also really helpful:

Honestly, I have really good feelings about Mastin, she's fairly obviously not a good choice. I feel really good about Shos at this point, and I feel really good about MTD

doh.

[mastin2]

GI was taken in N1...but

didn't

tell the cops who the scum were.

If this is true, it's possible GI's stances were trying to tell the cops his info. Like, taking out jon from the lynch list...but not calling him town. (I'll need to fact-check that; I caught it on a skim of his iso.) Calling shos scum might also fit into that.

What do you make of shos bringing up the possibility of lynching grey again after it was already discussed?

Well, it was a pro-scum idea, so if he could con a town player into going along with it, game would be over with a scum win.

Sooooooooooooooo, back to 51/49 on shos/MTD.

[mastin2]

Mastin, I love you, but I've told you before one of the fastest ways for me to get a town read on someone is for you to tell me they're 100% scum.

Am good with an LLD lynch, but I'd vaguely like to hear something from Jon. She doesn't seem to give a shit, which is a good sign - playing solo serial killer after a day 1 scumbuddy lynch is hyper demoralizing.

Looks important.

Shos is pissing me off.

Take Jon out of the possibly scum list.

What I caught. Again, very well could have been code for "SHOS IS SCUM, BUT NOT THE GODFATHER".

This feels like he really wants to know my role.

This also looks really important; it's about shos.

Nothing 100%, but I don't feel like a PI lynch today.

Worrying about the alignment of someone you can't even lynch (and who is being replaced) remains an enormous waste of fucking time. Shos, why are you diddling about with that shit?

Another potentially important one.

Again, need to review everything. But this is looking really, reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally bad for shos.

[MTD]

Ok, so shos main defense was that he would have bussed Dessew D1 (and Grey (somewhat) btw).
So would Garmr.
However if shos was scum, he would actually have bussed ALL of his scumpartners at some point.
You know what? I think I will meta him now, to see whether his claim of never bussing D1 holds up.

I think I mentioned it before but I want an explanation for this post from shos:

They also gave me a really cool power, I'm not sure if I want to be protected tonight. probably not

I can make no sense of it because for all we know it is highly unprobable the cops gave him anything like that.

[MTD]

[quote="In post 925, MTD"

Honestly, I have really good feelings about Mastin, she's fairly obviously not a good choice. I feel really good about Shos at this point, and I feel really good about MTD

doh.[/quote]
Hm that actually could be directed at the cops about mastin.

[mastin2]

However if shos was scum, he would actually have bussed ALL of his scumpartners at some point.

So would've Garmr.

Grey ice-He seems to be paranoid as fuck his not acting like his usual sane self town or scum. So I really don't know how to handle him as a lot of the shit his cases have been null and one or two points a little have a tiniest bit of merit at best. I don't know what to make of him so I'm leaving him unrated

Dessew-at first I thought he was a vi but his hop onto the muffin wagon was a little more suss and his action send a couple of shivers down my spine. Through I think he could just be a vi because of mara's actions but I'll put him as null scum.

Private-null-scum he just doesn't seem to give two fucks about this game.

Admittedly null-scum, but read the descriptions here.
(Speaking of which...Garmr fought the zMuff wagon D1...AND was trying to figure out Kovora, not blindly calling her scum.) Also here, where he calls Dessew and PrivateI scum and GI a null.

Oh, and also--if shos checked Garmr's activity levels and said that Garmr lurked on the 19th, that's a lie, 'cause Garmr posted then. Something like ten posts worth.

Bastard bastard mod.

This could explain a scum-shos's actions. Yeah, he said it in jest, but...it actually kinda applies, doesn't it?

A scum player thinking there's a bastard element I can totally see being paranoid of scumbuddies.

for example, I now kinda think that you are a third party jester. that is precisely the tell that you said only mafia do. and you..you fit to TWO possible third parties by now - a lyncher for Muffin, and a jester; I don't see how you're going up town and muffin's scum.

Another biggie; if the Godfather was aware there was a usurper, well, a usurper is essentially just that: a third party lyncher.

Who shos would want gone.

Well i have messages from the dead topic. Ehm, i mean, other side. I mean, policee

Ill poat from home in like 11 hours. Meanwhile
VOTE: dessew
L+6

Another explanation for shos voting a scumbuddy is if the police suspected dessew; that'd give incentive for shos to want to be on their good side.

My assumption is that the cops will join the game in lylo or after it or something, or, that one of them is scum, and they will enter the game after 2 scum are down

In a way, this...kinda actually happened; might be important.

VOTE: jon

speak up, scum. quickly now, don't read the QT.

If shos was scumhunting scum (looking for a usurper), making a statement like this actually makes perfect sense.

(BTW, reading shos in iso, I see a lot of changes in stances that have no trajectory to them; they're broken and disjointed.)

It fits, but again. Need more time to research.

[mastin2]

I am leaning towards shos right now, but I really don't know.

[MTD]

Ok from meta I can confirm that this much bussing would be esceptional from shos.
So that puts me to undecided again.

[MTD]

*exceptional

[mastin2]

Ahg.

As I was driving here, I had a thought which made me think, "STOP! Look at MTD again", but I can't remember what that thought was, just that I had it. :/

[MTD]

Hm?

I need things from shos now I think or I will just be going in circles.

[mastin2]

Oh. Now I remember.

Ok from meta I can confirm that this much bussing would be exceptional from shos.

It was actually this. As I was driving, I was thinking about the game, and on shos. I concluded he could be scum, and that's what my mind was thinking. Especially given the mechanic of the game is apparently largely paranoia, and paranoia of scumbuddies = bussing them.

...But the thought struck me of "Or occam's razor, he's just town and not bussing" hit me, and that my read of his iso was biased and that he was more likely town overall than scum.

Guh.

[MTD]

Ok?

Well idk, if shos isn't scum you are and right now both seem about equally likely to me.

[mastin2]

Hm?

Fridge Logic, only in this case, 'driving in a car logic'. I was struck by a thought that made shos be likely town, but by the time I got to a place I could actually type it our, I had forgotten what that thought was. Thus the post.

Then reading your post made me realize that something similar to your post was actually the same thing I was seeing.

[mastin2]

But it should be noted: MTD actually thinking a lot of the same things I am and picking up on them is actually a good thing. It points towards us having the same general mindset towards things. And that makes me doubt MTD being scum, too. Especially since the first thing about shos that MTD said was true. Both of us are here, actively trying to figure things out (or doing a very good job of having faked that). shos...hasn't.

I need things from shos now I think or I will just be going in circles.

if shos isn't scum you are and right now both seem about equally likely to me.

And both of these look town, to.

[mastin2]

Overall, I'd still say 51/49 shos/MTD. Because while shos has the point about bussing in his favor, it is greatly exaggerated in its importance and the mechanic of the game means that a scum-him would probably have incentive TO bus. And MTD's posting also looks better, now.

But I dunno.

I really, really don't.

[mastin2]

I really need to put the time into this game. If not tonight, then tomorrow. But soon, somehow, the whole thing. AP's QT. The thread. All in one sitting, with crossreferencing.

This shouldn't be that hard. I feel like all the pieces of the puzzle

are

there, and that if I thought things through, really thought things through, I'd put them all together correctly and have my answer. But it is.

[shos]

Alright so here's the deal
Empking and Wind told me to convey a message from the police to town, which I thought was stupid so I ignored it, but now it is pure gold: they said that scum are probably just laughing while we're fighting when they lurk(paraphrase)....this was on February 19th, so I wnet back and saw if either of you lurked at that time or so, and it seems that Garmr has indeed been like that, or something.

so hmmn.

This could so be about Dessew.

I literally spoke about dessew the entire thread, they could just agree if they wanted that. when he said that scum lurked, he marked it with an asterix. I thought it was meaningless at the time.

Also why is it important whether the police has won?

That "lurker" thing is again something we have no way of knowing whether you are making it up right now or really were told it because if it was there, you were so stupid (if you are town) to

not pass it on

.

Also WTF is this:

They also gave me a really cool power, I'm not sure if I want to be protected tonight. probably not

?

Greyice or the other cops never said what the win condition was. I dunno what or how bastard the setup actually is, so finding out about the police is a major thing to do. as much as possible, I want to know, that's how lylos go with me.

and that quote was supposed to get me nightkilled, it was a 'I am a PR' crumb that never got picked up. as a VT, I hoped to lure the nightkill, thinking that there are other PRs.

Ok so I looked into that policeQT of mine again as well and found, that they did not even as much as mention shos.
On the one hand mastin was the only alive player they asked me for a read on, however then they mostly argued against my scumread on her.

Also in this light it is funny that they never answered to the question who is scum.

in my QT they really barely talked at all; and they ignored most of my questions, too.

[shos]

mastin I'm gonna lol @your end-of-37 posts. 'see this through' does not mean that I'm ending the game, also, you can see that I haven't really done that xD

And really, I don't understand how I'm not obvtown to you two, especially MTD, considering D1, so I wanted you to do the casework for me :rolling eyes:

I also don't understand what your point(s?) actually is(are?) about the interrogations. I was the first one to get interrogated, so you can't blame me for acting differently than others, lol.

[shos]

ALRIGHT
HERE WE GO MOMMA
post 5: I can't see why people think that muffin is scum. I need to investigate more about Greyice. hey bawyz, are you even playing in the game? do you, like, have role pms and alignments and stuff?
"yea

stupid little boy

shos we are obviously playing the game. now tell me who you think is the most good minded townie" - empking
*gives a name of someone who is not in the game*
lol
so post 250 is really really bad; it is a heapful of misreps in the form of taking X and making it superduperXtreme. I loath that
how did you know, greyice, that I am being interrogated by empking? the mod never said that.
Dessew is terribad for agreeing with somehting that is SO FREAKIN INSANE posted by greyice. I want to lynch Dessew(VOTE: Dessew btw) just because I fear that greyice is a jester or lyncher; dessew agrees and sheeps what seems to be the worst attack I've seen a player make (no offense greyice, if you'r'e really town, I *REAALLY* don't get your points and think you're wrong). seems like he's sheeping what looks like a possible viable mislynch.
post 275 is a superb posting example and one can definitely get behind the player who has posted that. that would be muffin. yes. your question, empking? ha.

*remark by myself about how one can go fuck himself with a chainsaw - a neat anecdote posted by greyice. just imagine a person, male or female, fucking himself with a chainsaw. LAWL*

Post 287 is, once again, extremely horribly terribly, bad.

MTD's posts are very good and well thought. namely, I liked his posts 290-291 very much, and can totally get behind this one as well.

MTD: why are you voting Greyice? do you think he is scum, rather than lyncher or jester? what do you think of the other peeps on Muffinwagon?

<<is not a part of the interrogation

oh and I thought about something and said it, and then I was told to make a statement by the police with its content:
How about we lynch NEITHER of the muffin/greyice pair; let's see what these peeps have to say about the rest of the game, get a grip on them from other angles as well. meanwhile, we can lynch Dessew, and who knows, one of them might even die at night! ^_^; so yeah,

FUCK THE

police are agreeing with me about this.

it is likely that they'll take one of the spammerz for questioning as well, to 1. shut them up 2. get a good read and discussion with them and 3. see how the thread evolves without a mouthful of {person}.



...that should be about it

also it's funny to compare what I said lately with this haha
I thought that the police wanted me to tell you what *I* said, and not what THEY said. another fun thing - I said that one of them might die at night, and et voila, Muffin dies, immediately after we lynched Dessew which made it obvious muffin is town.

[shos]

I prefer a Dessew wagon but I'll join on a kovara lynch

I could compromise for a dessew wagon over a mara one

and sorry I had to get it off my chest, knowing me it would of built up more and it would of came out a lot worse. Mollie's kinda really special to me we share everything.

VOTE: Dessew

VOTE: dessew

L-1 and stuff

If Dessew is scum, one of these two is a bus vote

GreyICE called you scum, mastin

[shos]

I prefer a Dessew wagon but I'll join on a kovara lynch

I could compromise for a dessew wagon over a mara one

and sorry I had to get it off my chest, knowing me it would of built up more and it would of came out a lot worse. Mollie's kinda really special to me we share everything.

VOTE: Dessew

VOTE: dessew

L-1 and stuff

If Dessew is scum, one of these two is a bus vote

Actually.

One of those two votes is probably scum anyway.

I doubt garmr is scum and I know I'm town so nope

I doubt garmr is scum and I know I'm town so nope

You'll excuse me

If that assurance

Means almost nothing

[shos]

Hey boys and girls. Yeah, here it is: would really only be content with either MTD or PrivateI lynches today.

Don't think MTD's done that much real scumhunting. What? Yeah. Just kinda defended the heck out of zmuffin and scumread Greyice. And I don't know where it came from I mean this kind of progression within his reads especially on zmuffin (boldyyy added to these quotes);

Because I'm slow, I guess, and thus I don't really get why there's a wagon on Muffin. Feel free to explain it.

Dessaw, read the above post. Seriously. That's what he calls content. Oh, and voting for the moderator. And whining that I'm scum and LLD is a bad player, because that must be why we have a scum read on him!

He's just blatantly attacking everyone voting for him, and trolling. <snip> lynch players doing that, Dessaw. That's how you nail scum.

Everyone should explain in their next post why they're not voting Muffin.

Agreed, he isn't contributing much.

Wtf? He isn't voting the moderator, nor did he ever.

Well, that's just trolling probably.

No, that's not how you nail scum. This is how you lynch players regardless of their alignment.
If I was voting Muffin right now, that would be for a policy lynch and I don't do policy lynches.

Seems to let zmuffin off the hook with no thought. Like "agreed" but nope he's not scum, probably trolling. That doesn't say anything about what mtd thinks zmuffin is. References a policy lynch, and really I think that it's just to set up "I could vote zmuffin", don't even know what the policy is.....

Muffin's defense really isn't that good

,

however

I like the way ICE is pushing this even less, he is handling it too much like a closed case, not answering muffins points but rather just saying they are scummy.
@Muffin: reads?

He really just lets muffin off. To insta-town read him (or more accurately, not even consider him for a lynch) because he has picked a side. And so from then on he has kinda decided that greyice is mafia and zmuffin should not be lynched. As in the same thing that he is accusing greyice of doing.

@LLD: This:

what do you think you accomplish with your posts above? you're arguing with someone who thinks you're scum and will almost certainly not change his mind. You're not stupid enough to not realize this.

So the only real intent you can have in making this drawn out bullets for bullets/points for points argument with him is to frustrate outside readers and create apathy towards you and he, so that people fall off your lynch wagon. Very common scum strategy, but very obvious.

Besides, you also stooped to asking "why me" which is death anyway, so.

Is actually the best case on Muffin I've seen in this game, but still it isn't conclusive IMO

, after rereading I think the same could be said about Grey, and even better so.

Why the bold?
It just doesn't look like he's thinking. Doesn't look as if he wants to know who is what and think it out. What he accuses greyice of doing. But more subtle, more.... arbitrary decision making to pursue grey that's veiled by a defence of zmuffin. That's mafian.

Will look at him and dessew later.

I'm cooling down on the PrivateI scumread a bit because dessew did flip scum and two scum on the zmuffin wagon voids my hypothesis from before. It's conceivable but I guess just less possible than I thought before. The unaccounted lurking/lack of content itches at me big time regardless.

So yes MTD then PrivateI

Would probably echo the sentiment about a mara/dessew scumteam not looking likely. Although what they were both saying might be different to what the votes were saying (as in that's the thing - bit iffy on the vote patterns that's stopping me from "lol mara is town") so I'll do some vca sometime.

@shos: like I asked before I guess, how are you reading privateI at the moment?

Wanna ask @mastin a question but not sure what at the moment. Something is weirding me here.

some points for thought later.

[shos]

I doubt mara is scum because of dessew as I said.

I can go with PI tho
he's useless AND bad

VOTE: PrivateI

me so townie

[shos]

in hindsight that looks pretty entertaining, lol.

I'm reading the game along and I'm just thinking wow I'm so town again and again. seriously, you guys should just vote each other x)

going to kung fu, au revoir

windblown didn't talk much on my interrogation too. 1 post maybe, iirc.

in fact he posted twice, two ENTIRELY USELESS posts.

windblown is scum?

I like their reads

I'm just saying what emp told me, I think they're agreed on that hence the they.
I could move to dopog but why not pi?

Nothing 100%, but I don't feel like a PI lynch today.

Worrying about the alignment of someone you can't even lynch (and who is being replaced) remains an enormous waste of fucking time. Shos, why are you diddling about with that shit?

because if wind is scum then we only have 1 scum in the lynchable pool.

I'm going to assume Antihero isn't going to have a game where we lynch all the scum then sit around arguing with townies.

So why is it relevant again? Why are we scumcounting in a bastard mod?

my guess is that when all scum die the cops come into play or something, as I said.

why not scumcount? we need to at least have an idea of when is mylo/lylo, what we look for, etc