California Trilogy - Dantès in Fresno (Game Over!)

[Mr. Grey]

Vote Count:

9 to lynch.

foolinc: 4 (Dragon Phoenix, Gaspar, LoudmouthLee, PookyTheMagicalBear)
Mgm: 4 (foolinc, logicticus, IH, Zindaras)
MrBuddyLee/Adele: 2 (Dani Banani, VitaminR)
Skruffs: 2 (Cogito Ergo Sum, Tamuz)
Dani Banani: 1 (Talitha)
IH: 1 (Thesp)
logicticus: 1 (Mgm)
Tamuz: 1 (Skruffs)

Current Condorcet Winner:

foolinc

To view the complete table of pairwise results, put this information in this form.

[Skruffs]

Now that IH has claimed to not be from the book AND fossed any claims to the main character, that the game is titled after, i am pretty sure he's'a good lynch.

I have a theory about the game's setup, but. Not sure if talking about it is kosher. IH is not only fishing, he's'propagandizing.

Would anyone else care to claim to be explicitly from frezno and not the book?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Way to fish, Skruffs.

Xyzzy and Cubs were both from Fresno.

[Skruffs]

I am not the one fishing, CES. Look at IH's post.

[Talitha]

Am I the only one who notices that foolinc is calling it incorrectly a PASSWORD repeatedly? I'm even more happy now with my vote.

i'm not sure I follow - Are you saying that you don't think scum have these words, therefore foolinc doesn't know what to call it?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

pretty sure you're fishing Skruffs.

I don't like it.

And I hate that I can't tell between poor play from you and scummy play from you because you'd do the same thing if you are town or scum.

btw

way to go Michigan! Though our scores were a little off, our results were correct and that's all that counts.

Unless you actually bet on that sort of line.

[Skruffs]

It seems like I point something out, and I get accused of the thing that I pointed out about someone else, and that's frustrating.


ABSOLUTELY not fishing, Pooky. You would understand that if you weren't trying to cover up for your scumbuddies mistakes. AGAIN.
Why are you constantly referring to football? If you were breadcrumbing, you should have done it in a more subtle way, because I checked, and except for a scumleague thread in mishmash, you aren't talking about football in any of your other games.



IH just

baited town

by saying "I'm pretty sure anyone from the book is scum" - Absolutely FIshing!!! Why would he say that?? Because he seems to know he's from OUTSide the book. Has anyone ELSE claimed to be from outside the book? CUbs? LML? BM did, but he also claimed to be from Paris in 1807.

Question about IH's theory that "People from the book are scum"...
Everyone who has claimed, has claimed roles from inside the book or about the book. Presumable, IH has no connection to the book. He is therefore NOT Dantesian in nature. THIS DESERVES TO BE CONSIDERED.

Take a moment and think about why Cubs would claim to be the count of monte cristo,

if he wasn't

.

Regarding the stupid theory that "only scum have secret worsd" (MORE BAITING!!)
IF only scum had secret words, WHY WOULD they say them all over the place, and then TELL people about them?

Lastly :
Claiming to be the count is scum?
Nobody counter claimed Cubs' count claim?
The game is about a man who was scizophrentic. Multiple personality disorder. Alraedy there have been two players who have been 'forms' of the count.

There will be more. And they will not be scummy.

Unvote

Vote : IH

[CES, pooky, foolinc, tamuz]

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

my football thing isn't a breadcrumb at all

i honestly ran out of things to say and I needed to post and I wanted to say something other than the standard I'm here and I need to post something to avoid replacement thing.

You're an still playing absolutely horribly by fishing for people who are from outside of the book, I'll let you think about why.

[Talitha]

Pooky, I am pretty sure that someone with such an excellent grasp of the English language such as yourself would be able to come up with 25 words that are related to this game. I was starting to wonder if you were seeking out some football playing role, or something.

[Skruffs]

I'm playing horribly - and you can't come up with 25 words to talk about, oh, IH's fishing.
This is like Tamuz saying I was suspicious for outguessing the mod when DP said that me and DP were possibly from two different mafia families, before there was any indication of number/size of scum groups at all. Why are you ignoring IH and focussing on me?
Why don't you consider what IH said to be fishing?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

why do you think him doing something scummy excuses you to do something similarly scummy?

And tally, it was more of a really late and I wanted to take a nap before going to watch the michigan game and I just wanted to pad my post count so i didnt have the time to actually come up with anything.

[Skruffs]

I dunno, pooky, seems kind of noncommittal, something you seem to be fussy about yourself towards other players.
Just sayin.

[Skruffs]

So if you think IH is scummy - why are you picking on the person who noticess it while ignoring him?
This is the bulk of my questioning towards you.
Wether you have a readon me or not, would you say that I try to stimulate discussion and that I try to pull out things that I see as potentially in scummy in people? Do you think that is a scummy thing to do - looking at players and trying to base a decision on them?

[Dragon Phoenix]

Am I the only one who notices that foolinc is calling it incorrectly a PASSWORD repeatedly? I'm even more happy now with my vote.

i'm not sure I follow - Are you saying that you don't think scum have these words, therefore foolinc doesn't know what to call it?

The thought crossed my mind, yes. Not a big one, but an additional small addition to the lynch rope.

[Zindaras]

I'm amused that I went from town to scum in Mgm's book simply because I voted him.

You should ask for your money back. That mindreading class was a total scam.

So what was it?

Mgm really needs to start answering this question.

I continue to like my theory about characters from the book being scum.

This is a silly-ass theory which is fishy in nature.

Now that IH has claimed to not be from the book AND fossed any claims to the main character, that the game is titled after, i am pretty sure he's'a good lynch.

I have a theory about the game's setup, but. Not sure if talking about it is kosher. IH is not only fishing, he's'propagandizing.

Would anyone else care to claim to be explicitly from frezno and not the book?

Why the hell ask this question if we already have two dead Fresninians?

[Mgm]

And I will answer those, I just happen to be busy in real life.

To whoever doubted my skillz, check Mini 487 (Open Countdown).
I had pretty much every scum pinned down before I died.

[LoudmouthLee]

pretty sure you're fishing Skruffs.

I don't like it.

And I hate that I can't tell between poor play from you and scummy play from you because you'd do the same thing if you are town or scum.

btw

way to go Michigan! Though our scores were a little off, our results were correct and that's all that counts.

Unless you actually bet on that sort of line.

You just felt like padding your post count?

I call foul on Pooky. I might even lynch him for it. The 25 word minimum was finished before he even began to discuss the football game. His charms will not get him out of this one. There's something legitimately wrong with his claim of padding.

If the football comment was the only bit in the entire post, I would be perplexed, but I wouldn't think it was overly bogus.

I think he's lying, and I'm going to update my condorcet to show.

Unvote

Vote: Foolinc

, Adele/MBL, MGM, IH, Pooky, Tally, CES, [everyone unlisted], [Gaspar, Zindy], NL, LML

[Skruffs]

"Why the hell ask this question if we already have two dead Fresninians? "
I can't tell if this is counter fishing, or not.
I said I have a theory.

[Skruffs]

Zindaras - IH's theory - that scum come from the book - means that LML and MGM - who have both claimed characters from the story series - are scum. One of those players, LML, was challenged to a duel where he would have died, if scum. He did not.

And IH's theory doesn't strike you as odd? Are you also claiming to be from Frezno?

[Gaspar]

(Glork, obv.)

Skruffs, in the same backwards kind of way I cleared you from suspicion in Calvin&Hobbes Mafia, I think that IH's behavior regarding this matter is an indication that he's probably protown, even if he is severely misguided. I sense no maliciousness in his theory. Also, you should note that IH

does

suspect Mgm (he is currently voting Mgm). But it iis failure to notice the inconsistency with LmL's role, the duel result, and his current theory that makes me think he's just not got his head on straight.

[IH]

I'll try to respond in more substance, but I like how Skruffs twisted my Theory into "I'm sure"

[Zindaras]

"Why the hell ask this question if we already have two dead Fresninians? "
I can't tell if this is counter fishing, or not.
I said I have a theory.

We have two dead Fresninians. Knowing this, there is no need to know if

other

people are from Fresno.

Zindaras - IH's theory - that scum come from the book - means that LML and MGM - who have both claimed characters from the story series - are scum. One of those players, LML, was challenged to a duel where he would have died, if scum. He did not.

And IH's theory doesn't strike you as odd? Are you also claiming to be from Frezno?

"This is a silly-ass theory which is fishy in nature."

I think that's quite a strong counter-statement. I'm not saying I am or am not from the book. Don't even go there.

[IH]

NOTE:My theory is useless until we have confirmed dead scum, btw, so I'm unsure why there's that big of a deal made out of it.

It's not like I asked for a "Book/not book claim"

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

You're silly Lee, I don't actually take the time to count the words in my posts before I post them, I just keep typing to feel reasonably safe about it being 25 words.

What is wrong with padding my post count? I don't want to be replaced due to the 48 hour average rule and I'm too lazy to actually count how many posts I've made and calculate if I meet it or not.

It's not like I'm disguising the post as content or pretending it is content.

[IH]

mmk, time to stop dicking around.

I've been trying to answer this question for some time, but the best answer I can give is a less than sound idea, IMO. Skruffs would do so because he, if he was scum, would pretend to be town. In an attempt to gain the trust of the town he shared some information. However, like I have said, a soft claim is scummy in my eyes. This means that scum would be unlikely to make this move unless Skruffs is the poisoner. In this case, since only BM died that night he assumed someone blocked him and posted. The reason he would post would be because the best way to survive as an SK is to pretend to be a vig, which would not only kill someone they voted for, but also probably share that they were roleblocked.

However, this idea is way too complitcated for my liking. The simplest answer is that my logic on the situation was flawed and that Skurffs is really a townie that made a less than omptimal play. I think the timing with his roleblocked claim and Xyzzy's death might have played a part in my views on Skruffs and I "saw" something that wasn't there.

Even though I did indeed push the soft claim as being scummy, I think that Gaspar and the above is the most logical....

It would have to be a horrible gambit for Skruffs scum to push through.

I also have a better opinion of foolinc from this post I believe. I would also like the town to note this and express their opinions on the following when he was pushing Skruffs softclaim to be scummy before this post.

If someone is a poisoner, they wouldn't expect their target to be dead in the morning... I would think.

Depends on the mod. Some have them die in the night. Some have them die later.

I didn't ask a question, so I'm not asking anyone to answer me. Surely we can discuss how BM managed to die without outing the doctor.

Eh.... useless speculation I think. There are lots of possibilities. I mentioned other possibilities earlier, because I didn't think it would give scum any advantage, but I believe I might have been flawed in thinking so.

Nothing is stopping the doctor from mixing with the crowd and posing alternate possibilities himself. Unless their posts outright say what they did, I don't think they tell much about the poster's role.

Your mileage may vary.

Interesting how a lot of those comments came after I said I wasn't interested in more discussion on the topic.

FoS:MGM

Well, I'm not a fan of foolinc's latest posts, so I can't say I'd protest a foolinc-lynch.

I'm not really seeing the case on Adele though. I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary from her.

Skruffs, if you want to know why I'm voting for you, you can look back to yesterday. It's the same reason for your place on my list. Everyone above you died.

Why are you not a fan of foolinc's posts?

Notice CES's list also after he claims he doesn't like them.

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 11:12 am Post subject: 830

My suspicion of you was never related to Cubs, nor did I ever suggest it was.

You are being incredible OMGUSy, Skruffs.

Also, time to condorcet!

Vote: Skruffs, [Mgm], [everyone else, excluding me], [Dragon Phoenix, logicticus]

*pats Thesp's head condescendingly*

It's okay to be imperfect, Thesp. Even I was imperfect once.

Quick Pod! Change the password!

When I get around to posting a new condorcet list I am going to move Dani back up into 1st or 2nd as (from memory) I put Adele above Dani, but I've never played with Adele before and a

lot of my suspicion on her has come from other people's opinions.

Note underlining.

FoS:Talitha

Is nightkill discussion inherently not useful?

I would assume it's inherently wifom, like Zindy said.

In other news, IH still needs to die.

So, I like how you add in still. When had you expressed abject suspicion about me before?

If that's true, why test the waters? Keeping his mouth shut would be by far the safer option if he didn't know it was safe to talk about it. What if scum was the only one with secret words? Asking about it would make it suicide.

You and your WIFOM.

I'm liking VitR's posts more than the posts I reviewed earlier in the day.

Why is MBL still alive? He should be lynched within the first 48 hours he's in a game.

This looks bad to me.... the fact that you would come to the conclusion that Thesp is a lyncher with you as a target makes me think this is more OMGUS and less "you're scum reaching for an attack on another player."

Is there any reason you believe Thesp to be a lyncher specifically? Do you think his D1 play would indicate that such is the case?

In other news, I find the "how useful is nightkill analysis" debate to be surprisingly boring. (In recent past, I'd side with Zindaras that it's too unreliable to use properly, but I've shifted to a more "It really depends on the specific game situation, and neither "it's useful" or "it's useless" generalization is particularly accurate.) Point being, I'd rather be looking for scum than debating game theory.

I agreeeeeeeee

With the above.

IH, I say this only because I think you're town and that you're playing really carelessly right now. STOP GIVING INFORMATION TO THE SCUMS. Your post 868 gave out information on two different accounts (that none of the non-counterclaimers are probably the real Count/Dantes), and that your role is a person from Fresno and not a character from the book.

So. You don't think it's worth future reference that a real count didn't counterclaim? That it's too much information?

I mean it's possible scum could

Mgm's play has been HIGHLY scummy this past day. I'm really confused why he'd give up his breadcrumb to his role, but not his password. It's like getting your meal supersized and getting a diet pop because you're watching your weight. The two moves don't match up. I'm also not a fan of the whole Doctor discussion. If we have a doctor, we want to protect him/her as much as possible and this type of discussion won't help do that.

I also agree.....

I'm still unsure
1.Why MGM claimed
2.Why MGM breadcrumbed

personally

more Why he claimed.

I wanted to make sure sharing my secret word was a good idea before doing so. I've had conflicting responses, so I'm still not sure. If it helps. I happen to have used my word.

So... your idea is that your secret word is more important than your word though?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not pushing for you to out your secret word, but you'd think if you took this mentality you wouldn't have claimed either.

At the start of the game I had foolinc down as a likely townie, just because his 'roles that might be in the game' and speculating on which roles the mafia might have, and seeming pretty genuine, didnt strike me as something a mafioso would likely do. Then I moved him to 'unsure', as the way he popped into the thread with helpful comments (eg. Reminding me to put my vote at the bottom of a post, etc.) made me feel like he might be scum keen to appear extra helpful.

I hate this reasoning. Bumping Talitha up.

Which pushed my suspicion of foolinc even further, as I would expect someone who is genuinely trying to find scum would reassess things after a lynch and a nightkill and all that added information.

I believe CES and MGM both did this though.

I don't see what's so weird about it. If you can't convince people you're innocent by talking and reasoning, you claim. As logicticus said, my secret word doesn't help my claim at all, so I'd rather make an informed decision about revealing it than just throw it out there.

Dani, what do you say?

How close were you to lynch?

Foolinc's reaction makes me want to put him on the very bottom of my list.

IH just baited town by saying "I'm pretty sure anyone from the book is scum" - Absolutely FIshing!!! Why would he say that?? Because he seems to know he's from OUTSide the book. Has anyone ELSE claimed to be from outside the book? CUbs? LML? BM did, but he also claimed to be from Paris in 1807.

Err no, I said I had a theory. Which is not the same as "I'M PRETTY SURE EVERYONE FROM THE BOOK IS SCUM, LAWL!" I've even withdrawn my vote and everything from LML because my suspicions against him were way to unsubstantial. It's all theoretical. Same with Logictus.

Question about IH's theory that "People from the book are scum"...
Everyone who has claimed, has claimed roles from inside the book or about the book. Presumable, IH has no connection to the book. He is therefore NOT Dantesian in nature. THIS DESERVES TO BE CONSIDERED.

Take a moment and think about why Cubs would claim to be the count of monte cristo, if he wasn't.

So do you consider me protown or scummy by this action. Instead of letting the town consider it and make your mind up for you?

There will be more. And they will not be scummy.

Major FoS:Skruffs

I dunno, pooky, seems kind of noncommittal, something you seem to be fussy about yourself towards other players.
Just sayin.

Omgus. Woo!

So if you think IH is scummy - why are you picking on the person who noticess it while ignoring him?
This is the bulk of my questioning towards you.
Wether you have a readon me or not, would you say that I try to stimulate discussion and that I try to pull out things that I see as potentially in scummy in people? Do you think that is a scummy thing to do - looking at players and trying to base a decision on them?

He's saying you're being hypocritical of me.

You just felt like padding your post count?

I call foul on Pooky. I might even lynch him for it. The 25 word minimum was finished before he even began to discuss the football game. His charms will not get him out of this one. There's something legitimately wrong with his claim of padding.

If the football comment was the only bit in the entire post, I would be perplexed, but I wouldn't think it was overly bogus.

I think he's lying, and I'm going to update my condorcet to show.

Unvote
Vote: Foolinc, Adele/MBL, MGM, IH, Pooky, Tally, CES, [everyone unlisted], [Gaspar, Zindy], NL, LML

1.Quit trying to figure out a players breadcrumb if you think it's a breadcrumb.

2.Why would you think a breadcrumb is scummy if you do think it's a breadcrumb?

3.I believe Pooky and his padding, since he did make a full post earlier in the day that was just dealing with football as a filler. Glork responded to it.

I've decided the best way to do this is to keep a seperate document open and then move players up and down as I find them scummy.

so based on my document open...

Vote:MGM

, Skruffs, Talitha, CES, Thesp, VitR, Foolinc, [Everyone Else], IH, Nolynch