Mini 1021: Battousai's Mountaintnous Mountain Mafia (Over)

[havingfitz]

Guess we're no lynching again. Ooo the suspense.

[PranaDevil]

Sweet christ.

*headdesk*

[Battousai]

Final Vote Count:

No Lynch -5- LlamaFluff, Lateralus22, iamausername, Sotty7, Leech

Not Voting:

PranaDevil, NightWolf, havingfitz

No One has been lynched D5

It is now Night 5. Day 6 will begin September 21st at 1100 hrs (UTC-5)

[Battousai]

Lateralus22 -Vanilla Townie- has been NK'd, N5

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch pre-deadline! Deadline for D6 is October 2nd at 1100hrs (UTC-5).


Day 6 starts, now!

[Battousai]

Did I forget to unlock the thread or something? Don't want to have to mass prod everyone.

[Sotty7]

Right now I don't want to lynch PD, his reaction yesterday felt like an annoyed townie to me, plus the Lat kill is

too

perfect. I'm starting to think Fitz might be town as well. That puts me in an awkward position, because they were two of my bigger scum reads.

Vote: iamausername

Gonna see where this takes me for now. Mostly gut at this point, well look back later as to why I feel this way.

[LlamaFluff]

No time right now due to classes. Expect something of decent length friday or saturday.

[Sotty7]

I spent some time looking over the thread. Here is what I have come up with and what I am thinking right now.

Post 632 - Xite lynch

Xite91 -6- Lateralus22,

Nightwolf, Leech, iamausername,

tomorrow wendy,

llamafluff

tomorrow wendy -5- Xite91, LoudmouthLee,

PranaDevil, havingfitz,

Nexus

Llamafluff -1-

ConfidAnon

Post 849 - Nexus lynch.

Nexus -4-

havingfitz, Leech,

Lateralus22,

Nightwolf

LoudmouthLee -3-

iamausername,

Sotty7,

Llamafluff
Llamafluff -3- PranaDevil,

LoudmouthLee, Nexus

These are the two lynching wagons we have to work off. Now I know I'm not confirmed town, so my player slot is in light green, the rest of the townies are bold green. My color is mostly for my own benefit as I look at the vote counts.

The fact is the scum have been screwing with us in this game. They know that in a mountainous game, the only real hard info the townies get are flips from lynches and kills. By killing scummy people they are attempting to confuse the town as much as possible and leak as little info as humanly possible.

This tactic makes me believe that the scum are experienced.

After the day one lynch they decided to kill tomorrow wendy, the competing wagon to Xite. I think we can all agree this is strange because many people found TW scummy for the stuff he pulled and he would have been a viable mislynch. So why kill him?

I think it was Iam who said that killing TW does one big thing, it spreads suspicion among all the voters that day. My initial reaction was that there was scum on each wagon and they wanted to blend in. However, that makes little sense. If the scum were spread out then why would they worry about the scrutiny on the lynching wagon? Because that's what the night kill screams at me, they wanted confusion... Why? Were both scum on the lynching wagon? I'm starting to think so.

Nightwolf, Leech, iamausername, llamafluff

Post 849 - Nexus lynch.

Nexus -4-

havingfitz, Leech,

Lateralus22,

Nightwolf

LoudmouthLee -3-

iamausername,

Sotty7,

Llamafluff
Llamafluff -3- PranaDevil,

LoudmouthLee, Nexus

Moving onto the second lynch we have the same culprits on both the lynch and the kill with the addition of Fitz. What makes this lynch slightly more interesting is that we have both LML and Llama tied for the second most votes. The scum opt to go for the same kill method, probably with how successful it was the last time. So why LML over Llama?

Llama is strong player, able to talk his way out of trouble. Lee was, at this point, a lurker looking worse by the second. Killing Lee in this situtaion makes little sense, unless Llama is a scum buddy. Looking over day one, Llama and his player spot spent a lot of time in the top tier of vote getters (enclosed in spoiler).

Spoiler: Day one Vote counts

Post 183

Nexus -4- Xite91, LoudmouthLee, Lateralus22

, Leech

ConfidAnon

-2- iamausername, PranaDevil

dalt54321

-2- Saga, havingfitz
Korashk -2-

dalt54321,

ConfidAnon

PranaDevil -1- Korashk

Post 201

Nexus-4- Xite91, LoudmouthLee, Lateralus22,

Leech
Korashk-4-

dalt54321,

ConfidAnon,

PranaDevil,

Nexus

dalt54321-2-

Saga, havingfitz
ConfidAnon-1- iamausername
PranaDevil-1- Korashk

Post 229

Llamafluff -4-

dalt54321,

ConfidAnon,

PranaDevil,

Nexus
Nexus -3- LoudmouthLee, Lateralus22,

Leech

dalt54321 -2-

Saga, havingfitz

ConfidAnon -1-

iamausername
PranaDevil -1- Llamafluff

Lateralus22 -1- Xite91

Post 257

Llamafluff -3-

dalt54321,

ConfidAnon,

Nexus

Nexus -3- LoudmouthLee, Lateralus22

, Leech

dalt54321 -2-

Saga, havingfitz

Lateralus22 -2- Xite91,

iamausername

ConfidAnon

-1- PranaDevil
Not Voting: Llamafluff

Post 279

Llamafluff -4-

dalt54321,

ConfidAnon,

Nexus,

havingfitz

Nexus -3- LoudmouthLee, Lateralus22,

Leech

Lateralus22 -2- Xite91

, iamausername

ConfidAnon -2-

PranaDevil, Llamafluff

dalt54321 -1-

Saga

Post 312

Llamafluff -3-

ConfidAnon,

Nexus

, havingfitz

ConfidAnon -2-

PranaDevil, Llamafluff
havingfitz -2-

LoudmouthLee, tomorrow wendy

tomorrow wendy -2-

Saga,

Xite91

Lateralus22 -1-

iamausername

Xite91 -1- Lateralus22

Nexus -1-

Leech

Post 377

tomorrow wendy -5-

Nightwolf,

Xite91, LoudmouthLee,

PranaDevil, Leech
Llamafluff -3-

ConfidAnon,

Nexus,

havingfitz

Xite91 -1- Lateralus22

ConfidAnon -1

- Llamafluff

Lateralus22 -1-

iamausername

No Lynch -1- tomorrow wendy

So the key question becomes, why did the scum chose LML over Llama? Where both scum on the LML wagon? Did the scum just want more confusion? Is Llama scum so he couldn't be killed?

I also want to note that both Nightwolf and Leech were the only two players on both our two mislynches. It is entirely possible that they are both scum and chose to kill the next highest wagon as a way to distance themselves from this fact. If the vote counts didn't make me look so hard at Llama I would be considering this very much.

My next step is to look at the ISOs of these four players and work some more on motivations and the like, but after doing this foundation work I think Llama is very likely scum. Depending on the ISO work though, it might lead me to wanting to lynch one of the two that were on both wagons. If Llama didn't spend most of the game under pressure, that is where I would probably vote right now.

TL:DR?

• Scum are playing us with thier night kills. They are probably experienced, they want to give away as little info as possible.
  
• The initial play of killing the next highest wagon points to BOTH scum being on the first lynching wagon.
  
• Therefore, I suggest scum lie in the following four players: Nightwolf, Leech, iamausername, llamafluff
  
• Llama was tied with LML for the second highest wagon on day two. Why was LML killed instead of him? Especially since Llama was also a high vote getter during day one. If the scum really wanted confusion, they would have killed Llama.
  
• Nightwolf and Leech were the only two players on BOTH mislynches.
  
• I think the scum are one of Iam/Llama and one of Leech/Nightwolf.

Unvote, Vote: Llama

I understand that a bulk of this post in WIFOM, you'll just have to deal with it.

[iamausername]

Need to devote some serious time to rereading, I really don't have a clue right now. But for today I decided to procrastinate by updating Adel's vote table.



I hope someone gets some use out of it!

[LlamaFluff]

Quick bit inbetween classes. Nice to see Sotty is voting me on pure WIFOM.

Also Lat death is just more evidence as to why you should NL day one in this setup.

To respond to WIFOM with WIFOM though...

"Scum were on Xite wagon, which is why they killed TW"

If both scum were on the Xite wagon, it would be even better for them to leave TW alive as the people who had been voting TW would more then likely return straight to that wagon, during that point, the Xite voters would be free to start making pushes on other players and use TW-town D3 to get another mislynch.

"Why LmL dead over Llama"

Other theories then "Llama has to be scum" include - My predicessor was an idiot who people thought was scum, no one really thought LmL was scum until that point in the game. IAU is also town, if Llama gets lynched, it would make him probably scum in the mindset sotty is using.

Out of time for now and gut is telling me to

Vote Leech

He hasnt voted for scum (except maybe RVS, although I still say Leech-HF is the least likely pairing out there), he seems to come down on people trying to call others town harshly, went after me for getting Xite lynched over TW when he was voting Xite.

At this point I am going to venture a Leech-PD scumpair. I am more confident in a Leech-scum flip though so my vote is there.

[PranaDevil]

He hasnt voted for scum (except maybe RVS, although I still say Leech-HF is the least likely pairing out there)

Read this, and wanted to give it a quick check (not in depth, but just the once over to see who Leech has voted for so far).

Nexus
fitz
Xite
Wendy
LlamaFluff

They are the only people he has voted for (not in order I'll note, stupid ISO not taking you to their first post automatically).

So he's voted fitz in RVS, fair enough, but how do you know fitz is town?

Yes, we know Nexus, Xite and Wendy were town now, but again, nobody, other than yourself (and perhaps your partner) know your alignment. So are you suggesting we just take your word for it? I still don't like your play, and still feel it's possible you're scum Llama, I'm not sure of Leech, want to check some things there first. (Yeah, I know, been saying that a lot, I think the TW argument took things out of me early on, and I've never really picked back up since, which hasn't been a great help, now the me/Lat debate isn't going to continue raging on this phase, I'll see if I can muster up the willpower to get going through everyone who is left.

[LlamaFluff]

So he's voted fitz in RVS, fair enough, but how do you know fitz is town?

I said Leech-Fitz is not a pairing, which I still hold to. If one flips scum the other one is surely town, so if Leech is scum (which I am saying) that makes fitz town.

Also you ignored my point in his end of day one stance. Thoughts on it?

[Leech]

Ok, I've had a few things to say that I've witheld due to no lynching. IAU clearly stated that when we no-lynch it should be done mercilessly. Then, when time comes he decides to post this:

I'd be right there with you all, but I'm concerned about the possibility that we no lynch and then a townie flakes on us and we lose because he gets modkilled.

While, on the surface, that looks like good advice, he used that to avoid no-lynching. Also, what he fails to realize that is that there is no such thing as townie inactivity in the night phase. LmL was inactive for a long time, so he was going to be mod-killed due to inactivity. With a less than 24 hour day phase, someone couldn't have been inactive long enough to actually get mod-killed. Making the day take longer, though? That would give a player long enough to actually be mod-killed due to inactivity. So, all things considered, that is an extremely scummy suggestion. No-lynching quickly would only prevent someone from getting mod-killed due to inactivity. So his actions were opposite of his words.

In fact, IAU didn't no-lynch until the third phase of no-lynching. Isn't it odd how one of the main advocators of nolynching the day before MyLo refrained from doing it so long? I'm really not liking how IAU is saying one thing while doing another.

I also want to note that both Nightwolf and Leech were the only two players on both our two mislynches.

You are right, I have been on both mislynches. I'm not sure how that is even remotely relevant though. You are completely overlooking reasoning in your theory. If you just look at who was responsible for lynching who, without taking into consideration reason, you are willingly tossing out information that is rather contradictory to your theory. For starters, you are contradicting yourself. You are saying that you feel that the scum in this game are experienced, yet you're saying it's likely that I'm scum buddies with Nightwolf, and that we're blatantly pushing mislynches. I don't see how that lives up to the "experienced" moniker that you are attaching to other portions of your theory.

My next step is to look at the ISOs of these four players and work some more on motivations and the like, but after doing this foundation work I think Llama is very likely scum.

That I can agree with. I said in a previous phase of this game that I felt that Llama was latching onto the subject of No-Lynch as a way to pull TW's town reveal onto himself. With how hard he was pushing it, I was not surprised at all when the first no-lynch resulted in a no kill night. At the end of the second day phase, I had started doubting my suspicion towards Llama due to his persistence on the matter. I started wondering why scum would push so hard for a no-lynch. With the two no-kill nights that followed, however, it made perfect sense for scum to force no-lynch if they weren't planning on killing anyway. He had clearly stated previously that discussions about No-Lynching created chaos, and split the town. So, what damage does 3 consecutive no lynches do? Considering the scum are clearly screwing with us in this game, that play would perfectly fit the scheme. If that's the case, though, it did backfire due to the mod imposing the draw rule, but it's not like he could push no-lynch twice resulting in a no-kill and back pedal on the third one, is it?

Depending on the ISO work though, it might lead me to wanting to lynch one of the two that were on both wagons. If Llama didn't spend most of the game under pressure, that is where I would probably vote right now.

I don't think the kill had anything to do with who was on what wagon. I think the first two kills were attempts to make it harder on the town. Also, with how Llama adapted Wendy's argument he actually benefit from Wendy's death. I think it had much more to do with what Wendy was saying and who could benefit from it, which led to Wendy's death in the night.

He hasnt voted for scum (except maybe RVS, although I still say Leech-HF is the least likely pairing out there), he seems to come down on people trying to call others town harshly, went after me for getting Xite lynched over TW when he was voting Xite.

I haven't voted for scum? Well, you and Fitz are still alive so that is yet to be determined. I also love the "(Except maybe RVS)" when it was my vote on Fitz. So, you ignore my votes on you, and brush off my Fitz vote as RVS. It was at the beginning, but as time progressed I became more comfortable with it being there. It went from being my RVS vote, to an actual vote, before Xite made me change it. I guess I should have made that clear in the thread.

You know what's truly damning about that statement you made? Nightwolf. Every person Nightwolf's voted for (apart from Llama of course) has flipped town too. The major difference here, is that there was no RVS vote from his slot. Why is that a valid point against me, but not Nightwolf? When you're misrepping my earlier posts about you, and actually mixing someone else up with me when you're making your accusations, (I'm assuming that's what happened there, never said anything about calling others town) then I have to question how much you actually believe the case you're making. Seems like you're just trying to throwing shit around and seeing how much of it sticks.

I never went after you for getting Xite lynched over TW. I "went after" you for making claims that weren't even possible in this game, and adapting TW's argument as your own in the manner that you did. When have I ever came down on anyone for calling someone town? I think you are mistaking me with someone else. You should quote where I've done this, because I do not remember saying that at all. I questioned you, once, about TW asking if it was just the theory of no-lynch which made you call TW town, but that was all I've ever said on the matter.

At this point I am going to venture a Leech-PD scumpair. I am more confident in a Leech-scum flip though so my vote is there.

Well, you're half right.

Vote: PranaDevil

Prana is most definitely scum, and Llama is severely looking it. What confuses me is that if I'm right about the plays that Llama made about TW, and attempting to pull the "No lynch" innocence onto himself in previous phases, I find it hard to believe that his later plays are so sloppy. So, it's not entirely adding up. So the bit on Llama is more gut-based, which is why I'm going with the stronger Prana scum read.

Let's face facts here. Lat had a solid case on Prana, but at the end it started falling apart. Lat's comments in the previous phase were completely invalid. While No-Lynch was the only move that would benefit the town no matter what happened in the night phase, it's easy to see why town would be hesitant to no lynch again. He was clearly tunneling at that point, which is why scum killed him. People are brushing it off as a frame-job, but I think that was exactly why Lat was killed. To get that "It's too convenient" response. Prana is scum, and Lat was killed because he was right. The fact that it's "too convenient" is the reason that Prana is scum.

Also, it never sits well with me when someone, seemingly randomly, decides to fight my battles for me. This is especially true when that player really hasn't had much interaction with me in this game. This is my fault, I have been focusing a lot on key players in the game which has left me simply observing others without really applying much pressure. Recently that's worked out well for me, it's just failing miserably in this game so far. I find it odd out of all the accusations that someone has thrown at me this game, that he decides to defend against one of the easiest. I'm not saying defending a player is scummy, but choosing the safest point to counter, and using that against a player you're already campaigning against? That's suspect.

I said Leech-Fitz is not a pairing, which I still hold to. If one flips scum the other one is surely town, so if Leech is scum (which I am saying) that makes fitz town.

See, this is actually making me feel that Fitz is town. This seems like a classic pushing of a mislynch while setting up another. So, you're going to push my lynch, when I flip town in the next phase you say, "Ok, so Fitz HAS to be scum..." and then win the game for your scum team.

I think we're looking at either Prana/Llama or Prana/IAU. The only reason I'm even remotely hesitant on my theory about Llama is due to his seemingly sloppy plays as opposed to my point about drawing TW's theory onto himself. Such a sophisticated play, followed by sloppy play isn't very consistent. He could have just slipped, or I could be wrong. Considering IAU has shown a noticeable difference between his actions and words, he could also be Prana's partner. Leaning more towards Llama, but definitely considering IAU.

[LlamaFluff]

He hasnt voted for scum (except maybe RVS, although I still say Leech-HF is the least likely pairing out there), he seems to come down on people trying to call others town harshly, went after me for getting Xite lynched over TW when he was voting Xite.

I haven't voted for scum? Well, you and Fitz are still alive so that is yet to be determined. I also love the "(Except maybe RVS)" when it was my vote on Fitz. So, you ignore my votes on you, and brush off my Fitz vote as RVS. It was at the beginning, but as time progressed I became more comfortable with it being there. It went from being my RVS vote, to an actual vote, before Xite made me change it. I guess I should have made that clear in the thread.

You know what's truly damning about that statement you made? Nightwolf. Every person Nightwolf's voted for (apart from Llama of course) has flipped town too. The major difference here, is that there was no RVS vote from his slot. Why is that a valid point against me, but not Nightwolf? When you're misrepping my earlier posts about you, and actually mixing someone else up with me when you're making your accusations, (I'm assuming that's what happened there, never said anything about calling others town) then I have to question how much you actually believe the case you're making. Seems like you're just trying to throwing shit around and seeing how much of it sticks.

Well that post was made in about a 15 minute time span between two classes, just like this one is being made during a study break for a midterm tomorrow, never realized that the fitz vote actually became a serious vote. That lessens the matter quite a bit, out of curiosity though, what have your thoughts about fitz been recently?

I never did realize that NW had the similar voting record as you however. I just had him down as a less townie seeming Lat for most of this game. This does apply to him a bit too, im not too sure on him, but I still have him as leaning town at this point. Interested to see where he opens up the day.

My point about you not liking me call people town is attached to my read of you-fitz not a possible pairing. Every time I called him town for his early reaction to a massclaim, you continually attack that town read. As I said before, that would be massively counterproductive for scum to do to their partner.

I never went after you for getting Xite lynched over TW. I "went after" you for making claims that weren't even possible in this game, and adapting TW's argument as your own in the manner that you did. When have I ever came down on anyone for calling someone town? I think you are mistaking me with someone else. You should quote where I've done this, because I do not remember saying that at all. I questioned you, once, about TW asking if it was just the theory of no-lynch which made you call TW town, but that was all I've ever said on the matter.

You went after me beacuse I voted (was tie breaking vote but not hammer) xite with intention of unvoting to get a no lynch. I did not vote someone that I thought was town, but one of my scum picks. While your vote on me evolved to being adapting no lynch, it started out being for voting Xite with intention to cause no lynch. Heres the quote

Seriously, how is the player that caused the hammering vote going to claim to unvote to force a no lynch? That makes no sense at all. If he wanted to force a no-lynch he would have refrained from voting. Considering his vote literally caused the lynch, that statement is a bold faced lie.

What confuses me is that if I'm right about the plays that Llama made about TW, and attempting to pull the "No lynch" innocence onto himself in previous phases, I find it hard to believe that his later plays are so sloppy.

ITS THE RIGHT FREAKING MOVE TO NO LYNCH AS EARLY AS POSSIBLE!!!! THERE IS ZERO DEBATING THIS FACT!!!! GRAWWWWWW!!!!

I said Leech-Fitz is not a pairing, which I still hold to. If one flips scum the other one is surely town, so if Leech is scum (which I am saying) that makes fitz town.

See, this is actually making me feel that Fitz is town. This seems like a classic pushing of a mislynch while setting up another. So, you're going to push my lynch, when I flip town in the next phase you say, "Ok, so Fitz HAS to be scum..." and then win the game for your scum team. [/quote]

That is not what I am saying. This is not a "exactly one of Leech-Fitz is scum" this is a "at most one of Leech-Fitz is scum". If either of you were to flip scum, the other would immediately become my strongest town read.

[Leech]

That lessens the matter quite a bit, out of curiosity though, what have your thoughts about fitz been recently?

It's hard to get a read on Fitz because he doesn't have the time needed to actually focus on this game. He's not commented on many situations that he really should give input on. There are still a few glaring moments that I find suspicious. For example, in day 1 when the wagon on Wendy got heated, he said he had a long post prepared against him, yet never posted it. I could see refraining from voting, but he still could have posted the reasons why he would vote, and state that he didn't feel comfortable voting at that time due to the quick wagon. The fact that he not only witheld his vote, but his reasoning was entirely odd. So other than a few things that stick out like that, he hasn't really participated enough for me to come to any substantial conclusion.

My point about you not liking me call people town is attached to my read of you-fitz not a possible pairing.

You mean how every time you say "I see town making that mistake easier than scum" I link the mountainous game where scum made the slip? I haven't read every mountainous game, but I've only EVER seen scum make the mistake in the ones I've read. So, I find that to be a faulty argument for that reason. I don't see how you can justify that comment when the only time I've ever seen that mistake made, it was by scum. If this is what you are referring to it is absolutely not:

he seems to come down on people trying to call others town harshly

How you can say that by pointing out a flaw in your logic, and how my perspective is historically accruate is anywhere near coming down on people calling others town.

You went after me beacuse I voted (was tie breaking vote but not hammer) xite with intention of unvoting to get a no lynch.

No, I went after you because I didn't (and still don't) believe your story surrounding your vote in the phase after it. It wasn't your vote that caused my suspicion, I was perfectly fine with it, and the lynch it caused. It was your claim to consider unvoting which caused me to start going after you. I've also pointed out on more than one occasion how your only real mentions of no lynch prior to TW dying have listed both pros and cons. You were fence sitting until TW flipped town. After that you went into ubber "must...no lynch...now!" mode.

I guess I might not have explained this well enough. Your claim in the second phase was that you were thinking about forcing a no lynch in the first day phase. However, in the first day phase you were not all gung-ho about getting that no-lynch. At that phase of the game you were still continuing to state pros and cons to it, and each time you mentioned it it seemed you were putting a stronger emphasis on the cons. I've quoted this previously. So, your later claim to have considered forcing it is contradictory to your statements about the no lynch subject that you had posted in the thread, at the time you would have actually been considering making that play.

ITS THE RIGHT FREAKING MOVE TO NO LYNCH AS EARLY AS POSSIBLE!!!! THERE IS ZERO DEBATING THIS FACT!!!! GRAWWWWWW!!!!

If you'd said that BEFORE Wendy's flip, it would be more believable. I can and will debate that, (not when to no lynch, but your stance change) considering I believe you to be lying. You're not even arguing my point, you're arguing about the time of a no-lynch, which I haven't even been arguing. I stated my reasons why I felt we should wait, and you stated yours why we shouldn't. I've never intended to argue with you about when and where to no lynch, rather your sudden desire to do it when you were clearly fence sitting on it before TW's flip.

That is not what I am saying. This is not a "exactly one of Leech-Fitz is scum" this is a "at most one of Leech-Fitz is scum". If either of you were to flip scum, the other would immediately become my strongest town read.

Ok, that reads a lot better than how you worded it the first time. It did look like you were trying to setup Fitz's mislynch in the next phase in the first wording from my interpretation. I now see that was a conclusion I jumped to.

[havingfitz]

Looking over the votes....I find it very interesting/odd that both our D1 and D2 lynch runner-ups were the NKs. I don't think Lat was especially high on anyone's lists so his loss doesn't help a lot...his main suspect was Prana so that would be some nice WIFOM headed Prana's way.

I think both scum were on the Xite lynch...though with both Xite and Tdel flipping town...scum could have been on both wagons as they were assured a mislynch. As I believe I mentioned before...I think Sotty is cleared in that CA was awol at the end of D1 and I'm inclined to think both scum votes were in play.

The D2 lynch (Nexus) and NK (LmL) were both focused on Llama...another huge serving of WIFOM. Fock.

The last three days were one long drwan out no-lynch so not a lot to gain from there. Definitely think whether we get it right or wrong today...the D6 lynch should help clarify alignments (I hope). I'm really torn between all the remaining players (sans Sotty). I had suspicions towards Llama earlier in the game which never went away completely. He was a front runner for the D2 lynch and managed to survive. The player I have the strongest town view of (Sotty despite previous games) is of the mind Llama is scum. All these suspicions from a large portion of the players makes me think we can't all continue to be wrong. If one looks and sounds like scum they must be scum....right?

VOTE: Llamafluff

RL still kicking my arse but this is the only game I'm in at the moment so I will endeavour to stay on top of it.

[Battousai]

NightWolf has been prodded!

[LlamaFluff]

unvote

In light of some horri-bad stuff here

I think both scum were on the Xite lynch...though with both Xite and Tdel flipping town...scum could have been on both wagons as they were assured a mislynch. As I believe I mentioned before...I think Sotty is cleared in that CA was awol at the end of D1 and I'm inclined to think both scum votes were in play.

"Scum are all in the group of four im not in"

The D2 lynch (Nexus) and NK (LmL) were both focused on Llama...another huge serving of WIFOM. Fock.

This glazes over the fact that I did not want Nexus lynched, and only voted for him to get a LmL lynch to happen.

I had suspicions towards Llama earlier in the game which never went away completely. [/quote]

Which are? As far as I knew you were only suspicios of my predicessor.

He was a front runner for the D2 lynch and managed to survive.

This means....??

There also is the fence-ish move on PD to start off.

Need to reconsider this coupled with a few WIFOM things

[havingfitz]

Man...this game is just moving right along.....

I think both scum were on the Xite lynch...though with both Xite and Tdel flipping town...scum could have been on both wagons as they were assured a mislynch. As I believe I mentioned before...I think Sotty is cleared in that CA was awol at the end of D1 and I'm inclined to think both scum votes were in play.

"Scum are all in the group of four im not in"

Huh? Which group of four are you talking about and why do you think that?

The D2 lynch (Nexus) and NK (LmL) were both focused on Llama...another huge serving of WIFOM. Fock.

This glazes over the fact that I did not want Nexus lynched, and only voted for him to get a LmL lynch to happen.

I didn’t glaze over that ‘fact’....I never even considered that ‘fact.’ I’m simply pointing out the fact LmL and Nexus (both now confirmed townies) both suspected you most of D2. Your thoughts towards Nexus are irrelevant. Also...you voted Nexus to get a LmL lynch to happen? huh? I’ll have to go look that one over again...that sounds odd to me.

I had suspicions towards Llama earlier in the game which never went away completely.

Which are? As far as I knew you were only suspicios of my predicessor.

Your predecessor was the same role you are. You can ISO me if you want to find my reasoning. My ISO 14 I think would be a good start. If I had stronger suspicions towards someone else I would have my vote on them. I don’t. You may not like my reasons (towards you or Korashk) but I wouldn’t expect you too considering they come with a vote on you.

He was a front runner for the D2 lynch and managed to survive.

This means....??

It means you have been high on a good number of people’s scum--lists earning votes at one point or another from 8 players...three of whom are dead-confirmed town. If the majority of town are wrong about you being scum...bad on town. But if the remaining townies continues to not lynch you and you do turn out to be scum...even worse considering the suspicions you have garnered.

BTW...

mod, I am v/LA until Sunday evening.

[Battousai]

Iamausername and Sotty7 have been prodded! PranaDevil will be prodded if he doesn't post within the next 3 hrs.

[PranaDevil]

Okay, I'm not even going to attempt to start defending myself or anything here, I'm just going to do what I should have been doing up to now, and that's look over everyone up to now, I'll only comment on those I believe are scummy after my ISO of each person, as it would be a waste of everyone's time to read through a long ass post about why someone is pro-town at this stage.

In addition, I'm struggling to get back into this game, and have done for quite a while now, so I apologize if I don't seem as enthusiastic as I perhaps should do.

Sotty7 (ConfidAnon)

Not linking directly to the posts, just do an ISO on them and follow the posts down (it's much easier that way anyway).

(Beginning with CA)

Post #0

Votes LmL

Post #1

Wants an LmL wagon

Post #2

Wants a Leech wagon now.

Post #4

Decides to vote me instead.

Post #6

Says he wanted to get a wagon started to move the game on, despite the fact he jumped away from the LmL wagon, that makes no sense to me.

Post #13

Finally unvotes me when he can't get a wagon on me, disguised behind finally "getting" what I'm saying, despite me not ever changing what I was saying.

Also states he didn't intend to push for my lynch, yet at post #11 he said outright that he was pushing for me lynch.

post #14

Jumps on Fitz now for not much of a reason

Post #22

Starts asking for more votes on Korashk, even after Korashk has requested replacement. Replacing out isn't a scum tell, it could simply be his free time has been reduced and he has to pick which games to play in.

(Switch to Sotty)

Post #3

Latches onto Lat's case on me very quickly, and pushes the non-existant issue of the Dalt stuff which has been gone over way too much to do so again now, suffice to say I find that scummy.

Post #4

Says "PD, I'm not going to argue semantics with you. “Lost track” and “forgot” are basically the same thing, period."
Yet they aren't the same thing, "forgot" means you can't remember even having a case, "lost track" means you had the original case there, you just never continued following it. Massive difference and it looks strongly like trying to force a lynch through.

Post #17

After all the no lynching she returns and now backs off me suddenly? Sounds more like trying to get me on side all of a sudden and wanting me to vote in the same direction she is.

Post #18

Tons of WIFOM that leads to... voting Llama, who I was pushing as scum before. Combined with the previous attempt to seemingly buddy with me, and now go after someone I was voting previously with WIFOM reasoning makes me think Llama may well be town and Sotty is attempting to gain my confidence.

vote: Sotty7

I will be looking over others, but I'm shocked CA/Sotty has lasted this long looking back, CA was blatantly scummy, and Sotty hasn't actually done anything of use since entering the game except keep her head above water and now, somehow say the two she most suspected are now town in her eyes and then use WIFOM to vote Llama (someone who has seemed scummy to all). It all just feels false from Sotty, like she's wanting to appear scum hunting without ever doing so.

[Sotty7]

Ack got the prod, lost track of time. Reading catching up.

[Sotty7]

Llama I pretty much think the vote counts on day one coupled with the fact you tied LML make you look really, really bad. Like, horrible. You could post nothing but rainbows and kittens and it wouldn't sway me from that fact. Vote count analysis is a bitch, but what can you do? You are easily the scummiest player on that play alone, hence my vote. I will spend time re-reading the thread but the prevailing impression I get from the night kills is that scum are desperately trying to hide. They no lynched for a couple of days to stop us from figuring anything out. Why? What are they so afraid of? One of the other four might leapfrog you on re-read. Not holding my breath though.

= = = = =

You are right, I have been on both mislynches. I'm not sure how that is even remotely relevant though.

You being on both mislynches is relevant because that's what scum want to do. Mislynch townies. I thought that was pretty obvious.

You are completely overlooking reasoning in your theory. If you just look at who was responsible for lynching who, without taking into consideration reason, you are willingly tossing out information that is rather contradictory to your theory. For starters, you are contradicting yourself. You are saying that you feel that the scum in this game are experienced, yet you're saying it's likely that I'm scum buddies with Nightwolf, and that we're blatantly pushing mislynches. I don't see how that lives up to the "experienced" moniker that you are attaching to other portions of your theory.

For one, I concluded that the scum are one of you and wolf and Llama and Iam. My plan B is you and Nightwolf.

I probably should have mentioned that I believe Nightwolf to be either an alt (his posting style feels somewhat familiar to me, especially the coloring of words he used in an early post.) or has played mafia elsewhere making him experienced. There is no way I would class Nightwolf as new player, he knows exactly what he is doing.

So, what damage does 3 consecutive no lynches do? Considering the scum are clearly screwing with us in this game, that play would perfectly fit the scheme. If that's the case, though, it did backfire due to the mod imposing the draw rule, but it's not like he could push no-lynch twice resulting in a no-kill and back pedal on the third one, is it?

The damage is obvious, it gets the town out of its rhythm which has been displayed already this day. Slow posting, nothing really going anywhere. Re-reading is a pain in the ass and people will put it off and become apathetic. Outside of not giving away information, this is probably a big reason as to why the scum did this.

I don't think the kill had anything to do with who was on what wagon. I think the first two kills were attempts to make it harder on the town. Also, with how Llama adapted Wendy's argument he actually benefit from Wendy's death. I think it had much more to do with what Wendy was saying and who could benefit from it, which led to Wendy's death in the night.

I struggle to buy this part of your argument though. Llama was already pushing no lynch, I don't find him any more scummy for taking the torch back from Wendy after he died. But yeah, I still need to look back at Llama in more detail. I did think he was town because the cases on him were pretty poor. But I have pretty much 180'ed my town scum reads after just looking at the information we have.

Let's face facts here. Lat had a solid case on Prana, but at the end it started falling apart. Lat's comments in the previous phase were completely invalid. While No-Lynch was the only move that would benefit the town no matter what happened in the night phase, it's easy to see why town would be hesitant to no lynch again. He was clearly tunneling at that point, which is why scum killed him. People are brushing it off as a frame-job, but I think that was exactly why Lat was killed. To get that "It's too convenient" response. Prana is scum, and Lat was killed because he was right. The fact that it's "too convenient" is the reason that Prana is scum.

I'm not sure I follow. PD was hesitant to no lynch yesterday, does that not win him any townie points for you? You also agreed with my premise of scum screwing with the town, if PD is scum this doesn't fit in with that MO. Or are you arguing that they knew that the second strongest pusher of PD (me) would look at that and decide a frame and turn away from him?

The only reason I'm even remotely hesitant on my theory about Llama is due to his seemingly sloppy plays as opposed to my point about drawing TW's theory onto himself.

To be clear, what sloppy play are you talking about here?

= = = = = = =

Parma, CA was lurky not overly scummy. Sadly this is how he plays. Not going to argue that he should have gotten much more attention but it is what it is.

You don't really have much of a case on me that I can see. Semantics is weak, end of. I told Fitz I wasn't going to push the Dalt stuff, but I was a new player and would have been remiss not to at least comment on it in passing (which is what I did). So yeah, meh. I still think you are town. If that makes me scummy to you, I can deal with that.

[Sotty7]

Mod: Do mod kills end the day?

[LlamaFluff]

Llama I pretty much think the vote counts on day one coupled with the fact you tied LML make you look really, really bad. Like, horrible. You could post nothing but rainbows and kittens and it wouldn't sway me from that fact. Vote count analysis is a bitch, but what can you do? You are easily the scummiest player on that play alone, hence my vote.

You cant just throw out "Vote Counts" without explaining it. Why is it bad? I pushed CA (you) until it became between Xite and TW when I voted a scum read over a town read. Next day I pushed PD, eventually moving to LmL and tried to stop the Nexus lynch. Again why is it bad? All you are doing here is making a point physically indefenseable by refusing to elaborate.

I will spend time re-reading the thread but the prevailing impression I get from the night kills is that scum are desperately trying to hide. They no lynched for a couple of days to stop us from figuring anything out. Why? What are they so afraid of? One of the other four might leapfrog you on re-read. Not holding my breath though.

Who does "trying to hide" point to? Also you already touched on why no kill likely occured, stall the game, another reason why no lynch is best right off the bat in this setup. That is just correct play from scum in a mountainous setup, which becomes more powerful when town delays no lynch.