Mini #582: Meta Mafia Mini! GAME OVER!


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Post Post #875 (ISO) » Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:43 am

Post by Johoohno »

DotS wrote:My theory about the setup might not actually hold weight, but I thought that it's possible that the town has one vanilla while scum have one powerrole. Assuming mathcam and Fonz were vanilla, this must be true given the holes in the Night 3 claims, and perhaps this clears Stoofer.
Well we have seen signs of symmetry in the setup (voteblockers and vote doublers, and if we’re to believe mathcam his role kind of fits with mneme). However, massive’s revelation makes it hard to believe his good will to the town.

@ KingPin: You’ve climbed on the scum ladder due to your trying to get away from answering my question in 844 and again in 847. Your answer appears first in post 872. Furthermore, you prefer lynching a more active player over an almost absent player, and the passive player cannot add anything useful during the night if the active player turns out to be town.

But as stated before, I think massive is the play for today. But I don’t want him lynched before he has posted his defence (he said he would gone until Thursday, and that is tomorrow. I think we can wait just another day before lynching him.

A few questions while waiting:
@ TSN: You picked KingPin as next in line after stoof or me. Why? Also, what is your opinion on EmpTyger?

@ EmpTyger: What is your opinion of KingPin and TSN?
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Post Post #876 (ISO) » Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:28 am

Post by TheSweatpantsNinja »

Like everyone else, there's a huge drop-off after you and massive/stoofer. Kingpin's been playing a good pro-town game, but his role is, technically, detrimental to town, and it seems really unlikely that something as powerful as the doubler would be put in the hands of scum.
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Post Post #877 (ISO) » Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:47 am

Post by KingPin »

TSN,
I agree, my role has the potential to be detrimental to the town. This is the exact reason why I chose not to use my role N-0. And exactly the argument I gave D-1 for not using potentially anti-town powers N-0.

Jo,
Thank you for clarifying.

Still waiting on Stoof/massive
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Post Post #878 (ISO) » Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:33 am

Post by EmpTyger »

Johoohno [875] wrote:<snip>
@ EmpTyger: What is your opinion of KingPin and TSN?
KingPin is protown.
TSN is protown.

Neither have played perfectly, to be sure- KingPin misplayed D1, TSN D3- but they've been generally helpful. You and Stoofer haven't been, the entire game. If I had to pick between Stoofer and you, I'm honestly not sure which I'd go for. Fortunately, we have margin of error, so I don't need to waste my time.



KingPin/TSN:
Where're the lingering doubts?
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Post Post #879 (ISO) » Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:59 am

Post by KingPin »

I really don't have a "doubt" as to Stoofer/massive's guilt.

However, lynching a player while they are on a bereavement absence, is in poor taste. That and once an accusation/attack is leveled at a player, shouldn't they have the opportunity to respond. Even if it doesn't matter to the other players.
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Post Post #880 (ISO) » Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:14 pm

Post by EmpTyger »

:oops: I don't know how I missed that. You're absolutely right- my apologies, and my condolences to massive.
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Post Post #881 (ISO) » Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:27 am

Post by massive »

Just want to apologize for replacing and then disappearing; I had a death in the family and spent the last week away from home and ... not really thinking about Mafias. Except when I was at the funeral and the priest said something and my brain went "False Dilemma OBVSCUM!" So I'm back and will give this the attention it deserves.

----

The best I can guess is that Mr. Stoofer felt safer in his "Vanilla Townie" claim than in doing a full reveal. He had no ability and therefore no night targets, and while I think his actions weren't the right way to go, I think it's possible he stuck with his claim to allow a more focused interaction of the night abilities that would allow the town to determine actual abilities and targets, and narrow down the night actions to determine who was lying and who was interfering with whom.

And as was pointed out, he had been blasted Day One for "lying about his reasons for voting" and didn't want to attract any further attention away from hunting scum. He really was a townie; that wasn't going to change. There was no reason to put himself front and center YET AGAIN for something that couldn't be defended against.

If you are asking why Stoofer didn't counterclaim mathcam, the only suggestion I can make is that he was either off-site during mathcam's run-up, or at the very least was only skimming posts. He clearly was only responding infrequently and only to things directed at him. Stoofer's claim came in June; mathcam's "role-restorer" stuff didn't happen until July and by then Stoofer was sporadic at best.

As was stated, it was really disappointing to replace back into the game and find out Stoofer was, in fact, not scum. I think I mentally had him lined up that way. I "came clean" because I felt that, at this moment, THAT was the best information for the town.

As many have said, we have some room to breathe most likely, so if you want to lynch me first and Jo second, I'm fine with that. In being forced to look at things through a different light, I believe Jo is the remaining scum, and I think that having KingPin as (scum+vote-remover) is overpowered and would probably only happen if KingPin had no kill himself.
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"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
PLEASE NOTE: I actively avoid being online on weekends! Don't replace me just because of this!
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Post Post #882 (ISO) » Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:32 am

Post by KingPin »

Vote: massive


Too much lying to not vote. Too much circumstance to not vote. Too much very very anti-town play to not vote.
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Post Post #883 (ISO) » Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:33 am

Post by KingPin »

Double post

Jo is my only choice for tonight.
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Post Post #884 (ISO) » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:27 am

Post by the silent speaker »

You don't get a choice tonight, KingPin, because
Massive has been lynched. He was
mafia
.
Game over, town wins!


Roles and recap to follow Saturday night. I want to thank Awesome Pants for co-modding, especially in his attentiveness to vote counts early -- there was a whole string of times I thought, "The game should be close to the top of a new page, I should put together a vote count," only to find that, one, the new page had started, and two, it already had one.
I think it's pretty clear that TSS's awesomeness did alter the roles each of us recieved, and thus he's obviously pro-town. -- Save The Dragons
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Post Post #885 (ISO) » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:45 am

Post by KingPin »

Well, well, well, You bunch of lying bastards!!!!

Good job town, Extremely good job!!!
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Post Post #886 (ISO) » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:49 am

Post by TheSweatpantsNinja »

Sweet. Chalk one up for the pro-massclaim group, I suppose.
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Post Post #887 (ISO) » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:19 pm

Post by EmpTyger »

Thanks all and mod, and well done, town!

massive:
Stoofer deserved the loss here; and moreover, you deserved a win for your play in your first incarnation. Not that scoring matters in the grand scheme of things: I do hope you are coping well with your real-life troubles.

Johoohno:
Sorry for doubting you. But even now there’s so much I just don’t understand about your play.

DotS:
No offense, I hope, for my criticism of your play? I know I was harsh at times- please let me know if you’d like me to add anything constructive.

TSN:
What I said in-thread represented only a fraction of the second-guessing your non-lynch of Fonz made me go through. That’s normally a lynchable offense, but you had played solidly until then, there was enough evidence that it was just a fluke. Thanks for playing so well everyplace else, otherwise this might have been tricky. Well done.

As for massclaim: I think’s that the wrong lesson. I’d instead take from this game that the merits for and against a massclaim should be evaluated for each situation. Saying “massclaims are always good” is as foolish as saying “massclaims are always bad”- whether one would be advantageous is something that will depend on the context of a particular game.

Primate:
Thanks for the concern about my first game back; maybe I’ll get a chance to return the favor some time?

Mod:
Could we get full setup/role information? Kind of curious about the theme: what were the answers to the “logic puzzle”?
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Post Post #888 (ISO) » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:31 pm

Post by Johoohno »

Weeehaaaa!

@ EmpTyger: feel free to ask.

I'm certainly not an expert on these games (this was my 8th game, and only my second win) and would really appreciate comments on my game play. However, I feel that being a bit scummy was the thing that kept me from being nightkilled (Scums, am I right?) and I thought my role would be an important one and a valid threat to scum night plans.
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Post Post #889 (ISO) » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:23 pm

Post by DestroyeroftheSky »

tss, thanks for the setup! I had plenty of fun playing and I think I learnt a thing or two about setup speculation.
EmpTyger wrote:DotS:
No offense, I hope, for my criticism of your play? I know I was harsh at times- please let me know if you’d like me to add anything constructive.
I'm not offended, thanks for asking. =)
I'm always interested in improving, so if you feel so inclined, sure, I'd like to know what you think.

About the Stoofer wagon on Day 1: Looking back, I still don't think I could have gotten behind it. I agree that Emp had a point about Stoof lacking anything sigificantly pro-town in his play, but I was pretty sure I'd redirected Primate to scum at first and then his play throughout the day didn't do much to dissuade me.

About the Fonz: I guess I was right about his claim. My role PM, which I guess tss will post soon, did imply that night actions needed to have targets. I didn't get on to reply to Fonz before he was lynched, but I think my argument about his "flip" on Primate was more valid than he admitted. For this, in particular:
me wrote:
The Fonz wrote:Basically, there's a difference between 'good enough for a first wagon' and 'good enough for a lynch.' Plus from prior experience with Primate, he felt sincere to me. And that Stoofer and his cronies were clearly setting him up as the counterwagon to the one true wagon.

Other than that, nothing much.
Primate's played this badly as town before?
It may have come across as a joke, but I was kind of serious. I really didn't think enough had happened for Fonz to make this call, based on how he'd voted for Primate.

I decided TSN was town during Day 1 because of this post:
TNS to mneme wrote:But I do have a question for you: I'm assuming you have a night action. If so, how do you select the one person you target?
I realised that he was trying to trap mneme, with reference to the secondary choices. I didn't think he'd have done this as scum. Still, I was with Emp about his lack of vote on Fonz. That freaked me out. haha

massive, you got hard done. You probably shouldn't have claimed. That woudl have kept you alive for at least another day.

Overall, I feel like I played okay. I was completely wrong about Primate, but was right about mneme, mathcam, Fonz and eventually Stoofer. I'm a little disappointed that I went with the Jo case even thought I didn't see it (sorry Jo!), but at least we got Stoof in the end.
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Post Post #890 (ISO) » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:50 am

Post by KingPin »

You know, I don't play in a whole lot of games. Normally it is a mini game about once a year. I had not finished a game in about two years. All of this because the game was becoming more about "meta" defenses outside information used to justify in game play. It was only fitting that I chose to come back and play this game. I want to thank all those who gave me a little latitude through the first day or so while I got my mafia legs back under me.

This game was just down right fun for me. Not because I was town and won, but because I actually had to think about the play of everyone. This game was so convoluted that you had to really think about what was going on during the day and how the claimed night actions fit into what you perceived was happening during the day. I cannot tell you how many days I sat at the computer with a spreadsheet open and combing through posts trying to make sense of everything. This game was really engaging! Thank you to all the players for making it so. Especially TSS and Awesome Pants for your development and modding.

I am really interested to find out if scum had roles. I assume that they did.

Emp, I was really frustrated with you on D-1. I think it is because I really didn't think through my posting. In retrospect, it was my failing to thoroughly explain myself in my posts, rather than attacking you directly. Stupid play on my part please forgive me.

DotS: I had TSN town D-1 due to this post:
TheSweatpantsNinja wrote:I have a night action that potentially explains primate's night explanation, and as I doubt primate could have known that, I unvoted.
It was at this point that I first put him in the Town column. Incidentally I never removed him from that column. You, DotS, followed him pretty close after D-2.

Jo: The only real mistake I could point to for you, overlooking the voting pattern of DotS. You had him as scum, almost to the end. That is the point that I really kept coming back to in the end to view you as scum. Yes your voting pattern and night choices were questionable as well, but nothing like your skipping over extremely relevant information. I am no mafia god by any stretch of the immagination, talk with these other guys who do this more regularly than I about improvements. My only suggestion, play more. (It would help me too!!!)
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Post Post #891 (ISO) » Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:05 am

Post by TheSweatpantsNinja »

emptyger wrote: TSN:
What I said in-thread represented only a fraction of the second-guessing your non-lynch of Fonz made me go through. That’s normally a lynchable offense, but you had played solidly until then, there was enough evidence that it was just a fluke. Thanks for playing so well everyplace else, otherwise this might have been tricky. Well done.
Heh, thanks. It really was an honest mistake, and I felt
stupid.


This game was a blast, in no small part because only one person had to be replaced. That was great. And we won. Which is cool. I also do want to see if mathcam really was a role restorer, etc.
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Post Post #892 (ISO) » Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:27 pm

Post by EmpTyger »

KingPin:
Actually, this was the first game I had signed up for in year, also. And, heh- the D1 frustration was mutual. The little things kept piling up (listing 2 instead of 3? omg so trivial in retrospect). Fortunately, I got a reread in during N2, and got to reevaluate, although I can’t remember what it specifically was that made me think better of you.



TSN:
Wow- I hadn’t noticed that we only had the one replacement. You’re right- I think it helped the game be enjoyable because nearly everyone (on all sides) really committed to the game. (With the exception of Primate, who probably should have been replaced or lynched earlier. As for Stoofer- honestly, it’s hard for me to judge him harshly, since the game was effectively over by that point. I understand him needing to move on irl, but needing to balance OOH the obligation to his teammates even in a rather hopeless scenario, and OTOH not wanting to subject a replacement to having to read, defend things that weren’t their fault, and probably get lynched for it anyhow.)



Mafia:
Just wondering, who did you intend to kill N2?
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Post Post #893 (ISO) » Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:27 am

Post by the silent speaker »

First, I want to thank all my players, who all did an excellent job of participating and keeping the game flowing even with the mod doing a subpar job. Especially I want to thank Massive for replacing; he came into a very difficult spot, and his claim fit the theme so perfectly I thought he had a chance of saving the scum at least for a day.

The theme of the game was "all actions act on actions." We've had all-cop games, all-doc games, all-vig games, and I wanted to explore games where all roles affect roles the way roleblockers do. All-actual-blockers is not really a feasible setup, so I put in other roles of the same family of effects. I cheated a little to count votes as an action in the day, mostly to fill out the count of 12 players. I did not think of the potential for confirmability when I did that, which may have been my first mistake.

The master roles list:


You are a
roleblocker
. Each night you send in one player's name to prevent that player's night action from succeeding (unless they would have received information from a successful action). You may not target yourself. You win with the town.
This role went to TheSweatpantsNinja.


You are a
role doubler
. Each night you send in one player's name to give that player a second night action. You may not target yourself. You win with the town.
This role went to EmpTyger.


You are a
redirector
. Each night you send in two names: one whose night choice to redirect, and one to whom you want that night choice redirected. If you choose, for example, "redirect the silent speaker to Awesome Pants," then the silent speaker performs his night action on Awesome Pants rather than whosever name he sent in. Awesome Pants performs his night action, if any, as normal. You may redirect others to yourself, but not yourself to others. You win with the town.
This role went to DestroyeroftheSky.


You are a
deflector
. Each night you send in two names: one from whom you want role actions to be deflected, and one to whom you want those actions to be deflected to. If you choose, for example, "deflect the silent speaker to Awesome Pants," then anyone who chose the silent speaker for his or her night action performs that action on Awesome Pants. Awesome Pants and the silent speaker perform their night actions, if any, as normal. You may deflect actions from others to yourself, but not from yourself to others. You win with the town.
This role went to Primate.


You are a
vote blocker
. Each night you send in one name to have that player have no vote for the duration of the next day. You win with the town.
This role went to KingPin


You are a
vote doubler
. Each night you send in one name to have that player be given an extra vote for the duration of the next day. You may not target yourself. You win with the town.
This role went to massive I.


You are a
role switcher
. Each night you send in two names -- one person to be roleswitched, and the other to switch with him or her -- to have each perform the other's role action, if any, on his chosen target. (This is symmetric with respect to them, but I need to know which one is your primary target.) You win with the town.
This role went to Greasy Spot.


You are a
target switcher
. Each night you send in two names -- one to have his target switched out, and the other to switch with him or her -- to have each perform his role action, if any, on the other's chosen target. (This is symmetric with respect to them, but I need to know which one is your primary target.) You may switch your own target with someone else's, with yourself as the primary target, but you may not switch another person's target with yours. You win with the town.
This role went to mozsuggs, who was replaced by johoohno before the game started.


You are a
serial rolekiller
. Each night you send in one name to cause that player to lose his or her role permanently. They do not die; instead, they continue play as vanilla versions of whatever their alignment was. On death they will be revealed as vanilla townie (or mafia). If the player is already vanilla, this has no effect. You may not target yourself. You win when you are the only living player with a non-vanilla role.
This role went to mneme.


You, along with [name] and [name], are the
mafia
. Each night you send in the name of the player making that night's kill, and the role -- not the playername -- you want removed from the game. Each of you has a single-shot kill of this type. By way of example, you would say, "Kill the moderator," not "kill the silent speaker," and then the mod would be affected by your choice whoever he might be. (You may not actually try to kill the mod.) The role may be identified by either name ("doctor") or effect ("kill stopper"), but if I have never heard of a role called the University President, you will not get credit no matter how self-evident it is on Magic: the Gathering forums that that is a role that cures millers. (There is no such role in the game, and I am not familiar with any University President role.) Once all living mafiosi have used up their single shots, you have two group kills of the ordinary variety (name of player you want killed and name of mafia member making the kill), but you must have no single shots remaining for these to come into play. You may not target yourselves or each other.

If you target a role which is not in the game, I will inform you that there is no such role; day will break without a kill from your group; and the player who attempted the kill retains his or her shot for future use. There is no standard doc or cop in this game (of any sanity).

You win when you are longer outnumbered by players not in your group.

Conflicting orders are resolved in the order [turned out to be The Fonz, Mr Stoofer, Mathcam].
This role went to The Fonz, Mr Stoofer, and mathcam.


All PMs also included the following paragraphs:

As a special request, please send in a secondary name with each nightchoice. This may not have any effect -- if no game mechanics are caused to affect you, it will not -- and if it does have an effect, that effect may or may not be a reduplication of your role action; but it will help with my bookkeeping to have a secondary choice every night. Do not name yourself for this.

Please confirm receipt of this role via PM. [end pm]

The second choice would have been what was honored if the player was role-doubled, and if the player was roleswitched to a role that affected two names, the first and second choice would have served that purpose. I intended for the mafiosi to be able to each send in a choice, and if one got doubled those choices might result in an extra kill, but that never happened and in retrospect I think I may have been too unclear. I don't think it would have had a significant effect anyway, as the night choices fell.

My thinking with the role- and target-switchers was this:

Target-switcher (T) switches T and X; X targeted Y; Y targeted Z. T's primary target is T, not X even though X is part of his first choice. So T changes X's primary target from X's named Y to T's named T, and T changes T's named target of T to X's named target of Y.
We now have that T acts on Y and X. X has 'named T' and Y has named Z. T switches these now: Y acts on T instead of on Z, and X acts on Z instead of on T (or Y).
This sequence is basically borrowed whole from Seuss II, when I actually had this role.
Note that T cannot switch X and T, because then the target-switcher himself is never canceled out and an infinite loop forms.

With the role-switcher, this was not a concern, so I did not put in a like restriction on him:
Role swapper (R) targets R and Z. Z targeted Y (backup 'choice' of X). Y targeted W. X targeted V. R performs Z's action on R (failing if Z's action cannot execute on self), and Z performs R's action on Y -- he swaps Y's role with X's: Y executes X's role on W, and X executes Y's regular night action on V. (X, because X was Z's second name.) The difference is that the role-switcher targets the role, rather than targeting the target.
Last edited by the silent speaker on Sun Sep 14, 2008 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I think it's pretty clear that TSS's awesomeness did alter the roles each of us recieved, and thus he's obviously pro-town. -- Save The Dragons
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Post Post #894 (ISO) » Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:59 am

Post by the silent speaker »

Night choices:

Night 1:

Mr Stoofer was blocked by Sweatpants, doubled by EmpTyger and had his role switched with Primate's by Greasy. His choices were nonallied player killer (not in game) and jailkeeper (not in game), so he deflected all actions against one nonexistent role to Fonz (which was blocked) and all actions against another nonexistent role to mneme (this "went through").

Meanwhile, Primate (now the killer) had his target switched with Kingpin's and was redirected to Greasy Spot. KingPin's choice of nobody to voteblock is replaced by Primate's target of EmpTyger, and Primate's choice of Emp to roleswitch-I-mean-kill was replaced by KingPin's choice of nobody and redirected to Greasy.

The only other choice of consequence was massive's choice to double Primate's vote. In fact, except for Primate, everybody chose Stoofer, Primate, or nobody. Mneme chose nobody. Neither mafioso not sending a sniper shot sent in a backup, but that didn't signify this time around.

Greasy dies. Primate has two votes. EmpTyger has none.

Night 2:

Target switcher Joho switched Sweatpants's and massive's targets. Massive had sent in KingPin to votedouble and Sweatpants had sent in Joho to block. Instead, Joho gets two votes and KingPin gets blocked. (Joho's switch isn't blocked because no blocker can block an action acting on self.) KingPin therefore fails to voteblock Stoofer.

Effects: Joho gets two votes; Stoofer gets one vote as per normal.

Redirector DOTS sent mathcam's "none" to mneme. Mneme dies, but first he takes away mathcam's shot, leaving mathcam vanilla scum. (Mathcam can't be doubled into a free shot.) Doubler Emp boosted DOtS, but DOTS opted to choose nobody for his second round. That could have caused some chaos.

This was my next big mistake, and probably my biggest. Mathcam was lower ranked than Stoofer, so his choice of "none, redirected to mneme" should have been pre-empted. Stoofer had chosen "the voteswitcher (whoever is responsible for moving votes from one player to another)"; he was properly to be PMed that there was no such role, and mneme was to still be alive. Instead I posted mneme's death; in fact, I initially did both before catching myself. It was too late to bring mneme back, but my PM to Stoofer was still in the outbox, so I deleted it from there. I retconned that mathcam had gotten a one-time-only 'field promotion', but I can only hope that, if Mr Stoofer deduced from an e-mail alert for a nonexistent PM that there was no voteswitcher, he did not allow this to influence the scum gameplay. (I saw no sign of any such, just to be clear.) I apologize to mneme, who was unfairly punished by the whole situation, but I feel that my decision was the only way to salvage a bad blunder entirely my own fault.

Night 3:

Massive, vote doubler, picked Kingpin primary and Sweatpants secondary.
kingPin, vote blocker, picked Stoofer primary and Fonz secondary.
DOTS redirected Stoofer to act on Fonz and secondarily directed Fonz to Stroofer.
EmpTyger doubled TSN primary and DOTS secondary.
Stoofer sent in for the mafia: Fonz to kill first the votedoubler and second the redirector. These are allowable choices, pending priority sorting. It would be Fonz acting.
Fonz sent in for the mafia: Stoofer to kill DOTS. This choice is a nullity and will be treated as no submission. Therefore Fonz is acting for the mafia per Stoofer's submission and Stoofer is idle tonight. Stoofer was redirected from "none" to "Fonz," but Fonz's actions have priority and I don't think scum should be able to self-target anyway.
Sweatpants blocked Stoofer primary and Johoohno secondary.
Johoohno switched the targets of Sweatpants primary with KingPin and Johoohno secondary with EmpTyger.

Working through it...
Emp doubled TSN and was not blocked. Johno's target of self with Emp was a secondary choice and does not come into play. TSN's actions both come true. Stoofer's action is blocked, but Stoofer wasn't doing anything anyway. Johnoohno would be blocked, but he targeted Sweatpants, and blockers can't block actions aimed at themselves. Sweatpants' second action is diverted to Kingpin's target: Stoofer. The idle Stoofer is blocked twice. KingPin, instead of voteblocking Stoofer, voteblocks Johoohno.

Result of blocks: Stoofer is actionblocked, but he was idle, and Johoohno is voteblocked.
Result of kills: Fonz was not blocked or doubled, and his underling sent in an uncontested choice of Fonz kills votedoubler, which is massive. Fonz uses his shot.
Other results: Kingpin gets two votes.

Looking back at it, probably I should have had Sweatpants diverted on both his choices, which would have led to an extra player being voteblocked. But that at least didn't affect the result of the game, and it might even have been a defensible course of action as an intentional choice; I get a headache every time I look at that night. Call it Mistake #3.

I had computer issues Night 4 and wasn't able to create a log of the choices and how they worked through. However, Emp doubled KingPin, Kingpin voteblocked I Mr Stoofer and II Johoohno, Mr Stoofer did not send in a night choice, and the three that remained ended up canceling each other out.
DOTS: Primary choice: Redirect Johoohno to Mr Stoofer
(Secondary choice: Redirect EmpTyger to TheSweatpantsNinja)
TSN: Block Stoofer (Johoohno second)
Joho: Switch targets of DotS and TSN (No back-up alternatives, intentional choice)
I think it's pretty clear that TSS's awesomeness did alter the roles each of us recieved, and thus he's obviously pro-town. -- Save The Dragons
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Post Post #895 (ISO) » Sun Sep 14, 2008 9:08 am

Post by the silent speaker »

A final note on mneme's role. It was a hard one to win with, no question, but serial killers are often like that. Mneme had a couple of potential advantages to help him:
1. The town would not be notified that people were losing their roles. Only the players themselves would know that. It could be some time before the town worked out what was going on.
2. His role might be claimable as pro-town, since it wasn't exactly like a typical serial killer. (Even then, SKs often claim vig.)
Also, unlike most serial killers, mneme would win even though his victims were still alive; in that respect he was almost like a cult leader whose 'recruits' don't win with him.
The town's best-case scenario was game over in 3 days; the mafia's was the same; mneme's was 4 days.
I think it's pretty clear that TSS's awesomeness did alter the roles each of us recieved, and thus he's obviously pro-town. -- Save The Dragons
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Post Post #896 (ISO) » Sun Sep 14, 2008 3:08 pm

Post by the silent speaker »

Aaand one last bump past closed threads.
I think it's pretty clear that TSS's awesomeness did alter the roles each of us recieved, and thus he's obviously pro-town. -- Save The Dragons
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Post Post #897 (ISO) » Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:00 am

Post by massive »

About my play the last day: Replacing into scum-Stoofer was tough. At that point, the town was pretty set on Jo today, Stoof tomorrow. Even if I did something stupid and got lynch today, it wouldn't change the ultimate end result that I still would lose -- it would just move the schedule up a day. I really had nothing to lose and everything to gain; if I could even raise a SMIDGEN of trust from the town AND make it to the next day, then I could go from there. The trick was, getting that smidgen of trust.

So what would a townie do in that situation? I couldn't very well claim the role, and saying nothing wouldn't make any difference. So I went back to Stoofer's fake claim and decided to "come clean" as it was easy to pin the decision to lie on Stoofer and make myself look somewhat a good guy by telling the truth.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. *laugh*
"1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
"unvote mlaker; vote massive; It's like MeMe/mneme and Corsato/Cadmium" - Dragon Phoenix, Newbie 38
PLEASE NOTE: I actively avoid being online on weekends! Don't replace me just because of this!
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Post Post #898 (ISO) » Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:42 pm

Post by Mr Stoofer »

Thank you to TSS for modding this game and massive for replacing me. Sorry I wasn't able to see it through.
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Post Post #899 (ISO) » Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:41 am

Post by MeMe »

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