Mini 1604 -- Zodiac Mafia (Game Over)

[Iecerint]

Additionally, whereas I don't think claiming roleblocker clears CTD, note that I DID give him the chance to use it because I thought it could be gamechanging if true.

Huh?

Quote tags fixed.

[Iecerint]

Oh, you meant where you switched to voting me. OK.

[ToastyToast]

If your answer to my criticism is basically "I am an irrational player and will not towntell because I do not play like a town player," then that might be totally valid for you, but it is not going to really help me to determine your alignment. I think it is a selfish way to play the game. It's not like playing a town game during lylo is going to ruin your D1-D3 scumgame.

I think there are a lot of different ways to play the game of mafia and it does not have to be logic based to be successful. I operate on emotional tells and play defensively. This will always be my style because its reflective of my personality. If I'm making arguments based fully on logic then I'm being fake, and I'm not having fun playing. So I'm not going to play that way.

[ToastyToast]

Also I will try to post a summary of my suspicions for you tomorrow, but it is going to take some time condensing. I don't want to just make a quote wall of things I've said in the past.

[Iecerint]

I will make a quote wall for you so as to illustrate what I mean by my criticism that your posts about me are rhetoric instead of content. Maybe I will find actual content in the process.

[Iecerint]

Tomorrow, though. I have a real-life issue tonight.

[Iecerint]

From my POV the only thing I am asking you to do is to play to your town wincon if you have it.

I think some playstyles are implicitly violating that rule and I see it as against the spirit of mafia.

I don't think I'm even asking for anything as specific as "logic."

[ToastyToast]

my playstyle isn't antitown though...its worked for 4 years.

[Iecerint]

Well, maybe isoing you will give me perspective, then.

[Xayzeck]

In my mind the only thing that could change this is participation for Xayzeck and Peregrine, which has been minimal throughout the game.

I was fairly active until Elyse got vigged, from then on I've been in kind of a slum from having my only confident read proven to be wrong.

[Xayzeck]

Also I will try to post a summary of my suspicions for you tomorrow, but it is going to take some time condensing. I don't want to just make a quote wall of things I've said in the past.

I will make a quote wall for you so as to illustrate what I mean by my criticism that your posts about me are rhetoric instead of content. Maybe I will find actual content in the process.

I think, as a player who has relatively little insight into this game and it's ins-and-outs(i mean, I vaguely know what has happened, but not incredibly in depth), this would be pretty useful.

As it stands, I don't think CTD is scum? Confirming a town doesn't help scum in any state, and I see no point of doing so unless CTDscum aims to give me hammer because I'm derp.

Between Ice/Toasty, I could go either way. I was leaning Toastytown for tone and gut, but with the recent wall and lackluster defences, I'm starting to think Toasty scum, solely because of selfmeta, generic gametheory, and overall very little relevance in trying to share Icescum or defending himself as town. I could read that wall a thousand times over, and I still would think to myself "Hm maybe Toasty could be town".

Which is why a condensed list of points you two have against each other would be incredibly useful, especially to each other. It's cluttered as hell right now.

[Xayzeck]

Sagittarius' Daily Horoscope:

Communication is flowing smoothly today, Sagittarius, so take advantage of this and get the word out. It's important for you to make connections with other people now. Run with your instincts and feel free to enter into debates. Your words and tone of voice are very convincing. You could sell anything to anyone today.

HELLO PLAYERLIST

I AM TOWN

[Iecerint]

Sagittarius' Daily Horoscope:

Communication is flowing smoothly today, Sagittarius, so take advantage of this and get the word out. It's important for you to make connections with other people now. Run with your instincts and feel free to enter into debates. Your words and tone of voice are very convincing. You could sell anything to anyone today.

HELLO PLAYERLIST

I AM TOWN

Yeah, that's part of what I was talking about previously. I was like "huh, what if dead people can influence the horoscopes."

And mine was like "please be understanding and don't be mean to people they are trying to communicate but talking is hard." XD

[Iecerint]

Don't forget that Peregrine is in the game.

Also, CTD basically had to confirm someone, unless she wanted to claim blocking Dryfit, which would've probably been met with skepticism. But it's true that she didn't have to claim yesterday, so there's that.

[Iecerint]

Virgo's Daily Horoscope:

Don't worry about probing too deeply today, Virgo. Trust people more than you normally would. You will find that things go much more smoothly if you approach them from a neutral or positive and not accusatory position. Listen to the people you care about the most. They're trying to convey important information. You might not want to hear it now, but in the long run, it's in everyone's best interests that you do.

"Plz stop being mean to Toasty" XD

[ToastyToast]

Aries' Daily Horoscope: Be careful about being manipulated by another person today, Aries. It's possible that someone is putting words in your mouth in order to get you to act a certain way. Don't fall into this trap. Be your own person and think for yourself. Your mind is susceptible and vulnerable now. Use your eyes and ears as a filter and don't let people unload their garbage on you.

Okay these are starting to make me nervous. If RC has been posting relevant fortunes throughout the game I will facepalm.

[RedCoyote]

Aries' Daily Horoscope:

Your unique ability to communicate with many different groups and personalities will be extremely important today to maintaining a bridge between warring camps, Aries. Keep things moving and try not to let the situation stagnate on any one issue. If the conversation turns to raging and ranting, it's in your best interests to stop it right away. Don't be afraid to step up and take a leadership role.

Aquarius' Daily Horoscope:

You have two choices today. Either jump into the thick of the mess with both feet or stay out of it altogether. There are definitely two distinct camps setting up their arsenals for battle. Realize that there is also a soft, tender, harmonious aspect that just wants peace. It will be hard to ignore the fact that your usual warring nature is ready to do battle.

Sagittarius' Daily Horoscope:

You may know exactly the right thing to do today, but for some reason, the action required may be a hard thing for you to implement, Sagittarius. Take an active role to get involved. Say your peace, but don't get so attached to the results that you get upset and discouraged if things don't exactly work out according to plan. Independence is an important virtue to hold onto today.

Scorpio's Daily Horoscope:

I told you so might be your motto of the day. Try not to rub this in other people's faces, Scorpio. Indeed, you have the foresight to witness an action and see the consequences right away. These consequences might rear their ugly heads on a day like this. Use your incredible perception and intuition to hone in on the best solution possible and work toward that goal before things get out of hand.

Virgo's Daily Horoscope:

Today's arena is one in which you can find a great deal of material, Virgo. There will be no shortage of energy to work with or opinions coming from you. Realize that your words have a greater potency about them as people become more intent on uncovering the truth. Apply yourself to peace and cooperation among groups. Help people work together toward a common goal.

---

Vote Count 4 - 3

• Not Voting (5) ( PeregrineV - Xayzeck - ToastyToast - CrashTextDummie - Iecerint)

With five alive, it takes three to lynch.
Current Deadline:

(expired on 2014-10-23 19:00:00)

[Iecerint]

OK, I think I've gathered all the posts you've said things about me. My sense on reread is basically the same as earlier -- that you got annoyed that I called out one of your early posts, subsequent to your getting annoyed that I was playing the game on page 1, and then just kind of held onto that all game:

It is not random. Xayzeck had one of the better RVS votes and WP voted him for it. Scummy. Also, weird combination of friendly and confrontational. It's unsettling to read.

This is dumb. wagonwagonwagon may as well have fun with it and make xyasyjkek or whatever the wagon.

This part is you getting mad at me for playing the game on page 1.

It doesn't really matter if we know how the vig was really. It's not as if alignment affects who got the vig (as far as we know), and I'm sure town will claim it after the fact either way.

No.

This is you being hostile for no reason in the face of relatively reasonable closure on blahblah vig chatter early game.

I find Toasty's posts poor and decisions anti-town.
Waiting for the mod to post I suppose, as that's relevant to interpreting the situation right now.

No one cares.

In other news, I've decided to ignore Iecrint unless he explains what troubles him so much about my slot.

Then let's start compromising instead of just sitting around waiting for something to happen. I have a townread on Salamence. Do you have a townread on Iecerint?

No. he's leaning scum for me because he seems to be attacking people without reason.

*****

So, all I've got so far is that you're set that I didn't like your first posts very much and that you're hostile as fuck. I wonder why I didn't like them!

*****

I would be a pretty happy camper if you voted Iec!

You can add the fact that he thinks I'm anti-town for things that can be boiled down to my play-style (as a reason there is a vote on me from him still).

ibid.

I think Xayzeck is active lurking. +scumpoints.

Here's this thing that I mentioned in the previous glance-through. I think you responded by being like "omg you are making things up." /rant

I don't think it's particularly alarming that he has a scumread on me, if that's why you're asking me in particular. I've been kinda lurky in this game of late. I dunno if this is really a reliable scumtell for me, but I don't expect people to townread me particularly.

Are you planning on doing something to change this, or...?

I was going to berate you for this, but I kind of agree with this, actually, having looked back at what Salamence posted during that time...I don't know why Salamence posted the stuff he did about the dayvig if he was the dayvig himself.

The chance of Salamence's claim being real is like 10%. I thought he was joking.

On that note, i changed my mind.

Unvote:Vote:Salamence

Here's where you switch to Salamence post-SC/Iec posts.

Iecerint

People he's voted: Juls/Aronis (town), WitnessProtection/Toasty, Salamance (scum), Peregrine (he also mentioned suspecting Dry-Fir at one point), Aronis again, Xayzcek, Nacho (town, and this was after Xayzceks "I'm voting nacho because I don't like him being around long lololol policy lynch bs, AND CTD's belief that nacho was scum because he "wan't trying hard enough. Bad sheeping at its finest)
People who have voted against Iecerint: StrangerCoug (town), Xayzcek, Nacho (town)

So in addition to being town-read by people for no reason (never good), he's also been fairly buddy-buddy with CTD. I've also felt he was suspicious since the beginning. The lack of active improvement (something that I usually see when playing with Iecerint) also worries me. he has also effectively suspected EVERYONE OTHER than CTD. so......I for one think that is very telling. There has been a lot of active lurking here and very little content. Nonetheless, my scumread on him is partly dependent on CTD, so I don't think he should be lynched first.

So this part is finally having-content, but it seems like the idea is basically that I was "buddy-buddy" with CTD. But you said earlier today that you thought we were together for never mentioning one another. So uh. Yeah.

Oh, he also called me anti-town despite having played with me before. Don't think I don't remember stuff like that...

Again, this feels closer to the real reason you had been scumreading me.

And now that I've caught up, that's about all I have to say on the topic. D:

Iecerint summarizing his role in this game.

Looking through his posts, there is also a lot of "hey, you should vote Toasty with me." "why aren't you voting PV?" with little explanations as to why. Its that sort of subtle manipulation that always stand out when performing ISO'S...

Again, it's mostly based on the read on your AFAICT. The PV thing was based on Nacho's/my interpretation of the Salamance shot D1, which I think was actually pretty clear? But it's realistically easy to miss that kind of thing.

Here you go again saying shit without any actual basis behind it. Why is it bad to post reads? If someone dies then we have stuff to go off of. And its what we should be doing anyway.

I hope that by now it is clear why I wanted to quick NL.

If you are concerned that scum will kill the perceived-towniest player, surely everyone ranking the players from towniest to least-townie is the tryhardiest way to make that happen.

Scum are going to do that shit regardless. Information is

everything

in mafia, and that outweighs whatever scum may or may not do. Also I'm about 95% positive scum will kill me, and with that in mind I'd like people to listen to what I have to say now and not find reasons to ignore it. Shoving it in their face is the best way to do that, and I would expect other town to feel the same way.

Are you suggesting we all pretend to be scummy as fuck to confuse the scum team into killing themselves?
It would explain your gameplay this game but seems

quite

unlikely.

CTD said it, too, in the context of saying that he and I were obvtown. Nacho I inferred in the context of agree with StrangerCoug that I was town. I'm sure there were others. It wasn't in any way a controversial read until D3 started and people bizarrely became know-nothings.

But StrangerCoug and Nacho are dangerous players with "town rally call" playing styles that get night killed not for their performance but their influence and potential late-game (yes, I know Nacho was mod-killed, but I think scum was going after him for that reason). Also there is no way scum

wasn't

pushing the nacho wagon, and let's not ignore that or think that "oh i'm considering it but my reads aren't changed by it" is a valid reaction.

In other news, where the f is xayzeck?
And peregrine catch up soon, please. This isn't the time for continued passivity.

Oh look I pissed one off

You should rush NL if you're going to NL for the same reason that you should rush lynches in assassins in the palace. You are wrong, or you are making up theory (lazily) to fit what you think should happen.

vote:Iecerint

Because if ctd is town there is a chance he blocks the NK

I think its stupid to consider one or two scum. We should just be voting for who we think is scum. Anything else is secondary and we cannot know given our current information.

@Iece: When I did my ISO you guys rarely talked to one another which suggests potential scumbuddies.

Also, does that mean you think CTD is scum if there are 2 but not if there is one? In which case, I think you need to stop trying to decode 1/2 scum, and no one should be making decisions based on it. Because there is no way to know other than setup speculation, which is always going to be an erroneous path.

The probability of my hide ending the game with a scum win outright was 60% (can't hide behind scum, can't hide behind NK target, the chance of their targeting me is basically 0%). I didn't think through the ramifications of the nympho role very carefully.

Your claim means that if Xayzeck is scum, you would have to be his buddy. You could also be scum with non-Xayzeck. If you are town, the scum have to be PereV and Toasty from my POV.

Just saw this lol. In what universe?

Again, this is all predicated on other people being scum, or it's mainly rhetoric suggesting that I am incorrect and/or undesirable rather than that I am scum AFAICT.

I have not intentionally misrepresented anything you said, but please correct me if you think I am missed something important.

[PeregrineV]

Sorry, out of steam- will come back to this later.

[ToastyToast]

So this part is finally having-content, but it seems like the idea is basically that I was "buddy-buddy" with CTD. But you said earlier today that you thought we were together for never mentioning one another. So uh. Yeah.

That may sound misleading, but when I suggest buddy buddy I usually mean two things:
1) reads, joint attacks
2) Going after other people in a way that suggests favoritism towards others.

And I see both of these as scummy in many situations. As a means of comparison, the reason I had a strong Dry-fit read early on is because he would engage with every player, regardless of his read on them. This suggests that he's thinking beyond easy majorities and easy lynches.

I see the two of you as being very similar when it comes to scum reads and pushes, which can happen if scum have an active quick topic and decide who they are going after as a unit.

I've examined your ISO and there are very few mentions of CTD prior to D4, which is after I had criticized the two of you on this.

My other reasons for Iece scum are the following:

The early attack on my slot read opportunistic:

You voted Witness Protection for a random vote and immediately call me anti-town. this shows me that you don't take other points of view seriously. I also feel that you were using my alleged "anti-town" style as a means to discredit what I've had to say throughout the game.

Meta Failure:

Before I start this section, know that I don't put a lot of weight in meta. However, you called me "anti-town" and criticized me for almost everything I did upon entering the game. We have played a decent amount of games together, and I feel like you would, at the least, be taking me seriously. I may not be the best at argumentation, but I still manage to get shit done. Unconventional? Maybe.

I guess my point here is that given outside knowledge, a town player would not immediately stop listening to what I had to say. On the other had, for scum, it would be very convenient to become stand-offish and brand me as anti town--ESPECIALLY given the circumstances in which I entered.

Under the Radar Gameplay:

Your role in the game was not consistent, and when suspicion started to stray away from you onto other players, you would active lurk. Pop in from time to time and give your input, pop back out and let everyone else do the arguing. When all the more active, louder people started to get picked off. You arose to take their place

especially

after the nacho modkill. You were very pro-no-lynch, but from my point of view you were relatively quiet before nacho.

Posts like these (remember when I criticized you for giving terrible explanations?:

Anywho...I agree with Nachomamma. If the day vig does not occur today then we must assume scum owns it. In fact, I suggest we put someone at L-1 and then force everyone to do exactly what I did

Kill: Soinso

to flush it out before the end of the day. You don't have to be swayed by "town" but you gotta shoot. Agreed? Good.

This is a good plan.

Yeah, Burn's post is pretty bad.

Funfact: the only post you made about CTD/Burn slot about allignment prior to day 4

Happy with my vote on WP=TT.

You have a lot of these. Instead of case-making or actually engaging with the game. You would just pop in with friendly reminders about your thoughts that no one really cared about (related to UTR point)

And now that I've caught up, that's about all I have to say on the topic. D:

@ TT - I think I should be obvier town by now, so I suppose so.

Oh I just found this gem btw (this one is just for giggles):

I actually found Elyse town prior to her fingering me

WTF????

I think you get the picture

The most important thing is something you quoted, but seemed to miss the point of:

More important than you associations with CTD is your position on wagons.

Final Day 1 Vote Count

• Salamence20 (6) - ( StrangerCoug - ToastyToast - Iecerint - Nachomamma8 - Dry-fit - Aronis)
  
  Aronis (3) - ( CrashTextDummie -
  Dry-fit
  - Gemini Blind - Xayzeck)
  Xayzeck (1) - ( Salamence20 -
  Aronis
  -
  ToastyToast
  )
  
  Not Voting (1) ( PeregrineV -
  ToastyToast
  -
  Nachomamma8
  -
  Iecerint
  )

I still find it suspicious that the Salamence wagon has legit been killed off with the exception of myself and Iecerint, but at the same time would you not expect at least one person to hop onto the wagon? Especially after the failure that was the Elyse vig kill?
You also...didn't really like the Salamence wagon early, and had a very sudden shift in logic.

You disliked that I was on Salamence, and also berated StrangerCoug when he started questioning Salamence...only to hop onto him "after reviewing his posts."

Your reason for the hop? his use of the dayvig, which you label as inconsistent for town and poor if a town cop (I think your second reason is fine). I feel like you had a really strong dislike for this wagon, but changed you mind when you realized that time was running out. Salamence, at this point in time, was likely to be lynched. So you did what scum do and go with the least suspicious vote. Also, I think Salamence expected to be lynch after his awful claim, so he probably wanted a buddy to hop on. I didn't really think about that until now.

As far as associations with other people, I'll keep it short since I've already spent time on it:
PeregrineV: Your role on this was to say "hey, vote PV" and hope it sticks. I was seen as town at this point, and your read on me seemed to have dropped off

completely,

with 0 mention of the reason for the change.

If they wanted to mislynch you, why would they shoot Elyse and kill Gemini -- both of whom were on your wagon yesterday?

Well following that logic, the best way to set up a mislynch would be to kill off their support. So...the best way to mislynch me would be to get rid of dry-fit and nacho. Oh, wait, isn't that what you tried to do/DID happen?

Gemini Blind: "WOW that kill was so stoopid eh guys????"--sounded like a fake reaction to me

Now for the most noncommital post ever:

Unvote; Vote: Aronis

I'll be on a plane soon, so going to go ahead and vote now.

I skimmed Aronis and I guess he unvoted Salamance for a bit, so maybe that was him thinking people bought it. I don't really have time to review the chronology.

Nacho's read history today is kinda unnatural so I could see him being scum I guess, but I just don't feel that attached to lynching him after D1. It's unnecessarily conspiracy-oriented thinking at this piont imo, even if it ends up being valid.

I think I mentioned this before but it is seriously the grossest post you made. Yes, you were going on a plane. But if you were trying to save time then why create this wordy, "i'm on the mess and am so torn" mess?

Vote Aronis, begin to set-up the creation of a Nacho-line of attack when day opens!

Aronis' lynch day is also the one you disappeared for much of/active lurked the most on.

Then you switch from Xayzcek to Nacho and now you are on to me again! Its like we've come full circle!

So What do all these votes mean?

Actually, first, I seem to remember you thinking Dry-fit was scummy but I don't remember when this was. Do you recall?

1) ALL of your votes swung with the tides of the game.
2) You have had more scum reads than any other player this game, and your reasoning for shifts in who you saw as scum were either non-existent or incredibly sudden.
3) You disliked my slot at the beginning, but stopped talking about it until this point in the game: when I have no one who considers me a strong town read.

So, your votes have been opportunistic.

Your Hider Claim:

self-explanatory. Everyone has claimed VT other than you and Salamence, I believe?

I had one other point but I can't find the post so meh.

[ToastyToast]

On the Aronis vote: I just realized that you were the hammer, and that time constraints may have something to do with the wishy-washy nature of the post. I still find the tone of it suspicious, but I read it somewhat out of context I think.

[Iecerint]

First three #s line-up with your numbering system, later ones are just responses to your subsequent various comments.

1. I accept that you were pretty upset that I thought your early posts (and other posts) were suspicious/ungood/whatever. I think that this kind of basis for a read on a player is more likely to be inaccurate than most other kinds of reads on a player. I can understand this interpretation given your perception that your own Salamance pressure was superlative. But, I think if you exercise some objectivity, you will be able to appreciate that there were lots of sources of pressure on Salamance, and your own voice is not especially influential (which is something you even pointed out explicitly today IIRC). So I think the motivation for discrediting you (rather than, say, idk, someone less obnoxious and with more clout) would be kind of limited.

2. I do not have any impression or recollection of you from previous games. Like, I vaguely remember you being in one of the Gay mafias (I think?), but I think we nightkilled you early or something, and that was different anyway because I was scum in that and didn't have to assess your alignment. But, this lack of a sense of what's standard for you is what led me to ask others what was up (i.e., is this is playstyle/irrationality/whatever you want to call it, etc).

3. I think my activity has ticked up for two main reasons: I am no longer visiting AP in California, and I am no longer in any other games. These will both change in the next week or so, though. ^^ In other words, I do think that there have been fluctuations in my activity level, but I think it's most easily explained by factors like that. And yeah, I just did the Aronis hammer because it was kind of near deadline, I didn't want to no-lynch, and I didn't want to lynch Nacho. I wanted to lynch/wagon PeregrineV during D2, actually, but Nacho and others seemed to abandon that idea for reasons I never quite got, but I didn't have time to rhetoric for it very aggressively while I was there. I actually didn't even recognize that my Aronis vote was a hammer IIRC; I just saw the deadline in the previous Mod post and voted because I'd be on planes the rest of the day and didn't want inactivity to cause NL.

~~~~

4. I will admit that I kinda feel attached to CTD. I like the way he plays and enjoy playing with him. He reminds me of Ooba. I am kinda wary of him at the same time because I think he is capable of sneaky things. I can only remember one game with him where it ended up being him, me, and someone else in lylo. I voted correctly (yay!), but I honestly can't remember whether CTD or the other player was the scum, or even who I voted for. That's the only CTD game I can remember. I guess this is at least some context on my previous experience playing with CTD, if nothing else.

5. I don't really understand what you don't understand about your "WTF" posts, which I think you intend to speak for themselves (???). For example, Juls had a good plan on how to handle the vig and I endorsed it. What else is there to explain? We don't all have to write a dissertation. In another post you quoted, you asked me at one point whether I still thought that I was hard to read on the basis of my previous play that day, and I said that I thought I was more obvtown by that point, so I said that.

Some of your "omg Iec makes nothing posts" posts are selectively-quoted to appear vapid. I only noticed this because I checked one because I couldn't remember the context. Please do not do this shit. This serves no purpose other than a rhetorical one and it is not a way to actually explain legitimate reads that you have. It is only a way to convince people of a perspective that you are no longer thinking about critically. For example:

The why is that town Juls would never daykill me on page 1 because she is not an idiot. It's not rocket science.

What makes you think I find Elyse scummy?

I actually found Elyse town prior to her fingering me

, and I don't think (???) I've commented on any changed opinion in that regard. Also, I suspect the difference since that point is mostly related to her fingering me.

Toasty has done nothing to change my opinion about his slot and is not a non-player, so I see no reason to change my vote.

In context, it is clear that I am talking to Nacho about my read on Elyse and explaining why I do not understand an implicit assumption in his question to me.

6. You are correct that I was not crazy about the Salamance wagon at first. He became obvscum after his claim contradicted his previous posts, which SC implicitly caught and I independently caught and elucidated after SC was so confident and I wanted to see what was up (because "reviewing posts," which you put into scare quotes for some reason as if it's hard to imagine someone doing that in this game, is something you do when you want to figure the game out). Calling this a "sudden shift in logic" is disingenuous because the reason for my read change was extremely clear. But I think you maybe don't understand part of why SC's claim was so bad? IIRC he had said something like "the dayvig should do X" when it was obvious given the information he "had" that that would be a terrible idea. That's the bottom line. If there are only 2 scum, buddy on the wagon isn't really any more likely than not. The wagon was probably governed mainly by who was online after SC and I pointed out the claim and why it was bad.

If we want to talk about sketchiness re: the Salamance wagon, the most obvious subject is your weird Xayzeck vote. <_<

7. Scum had nothing to do with Nacho dying. I do think the apathy tell CTD mentioned seemed valid. Nacho didn't really show up D2 despite having some opinions about the wagons.

8. Gemini Blind was a dumb kill because one of the hydra heads had made an awful "Salamance's claim is not so bad let's not lynch the claimed cop guys let him investigate" post that just reeked of "this is us going for a one-day reprieve gambit thing and overselling it." Maybe scum thought it was too dumb to be scum. Who the hell knows. I would never have killed them (inb4 N1 kill WIFOM on a player totally disconnected from me for D523423 self-meta benefits or whatever bullshit).

9. I don't know what you were even talking about with "on the mess and so torn" garbage, but I guess you at least disowned that or something, so whatever.

10. Xayzeck is confirmed by CTD unless the gamestate is nigh-impossible to win, Nacho is dead, I think CTD is probably town at this point in any winnable circumstance for the game, so yeah, I'm down to basically you and PeregrineV. I have said this multiple times and your insinuation that my focus on you is hard to understand or random in some way is clearly bullshit.

11. I obviously have the Hider ability...it was the horoscope from N1. There would be no reason to claim it otherwise. As already explained, I claimed it because I realized that Dryfit was town and wanted to make it as obvious as possible why I had such a strong town read on StrangerCoug going into yesterday (cuz I was operating under a 2 scum assumption and assumed that the ability no longer had any reasonable function after Nacho's modkill, so giving the information about my mindset to help Dryfit was the best use to be hoped for).

~~~

Anyway, I think this has been kinda useless as far as you and I are concerned, as when you repeatedly ignore clear context like that and just vaguely say stuff like "THE HIDER CLAIM: SELF-EXPLANATORY!!!!!!!!!" it is really hard for me to take seriously that you have any intention to figure out my alignment. But, maybe someone else will find this helpful.

[Iecerint]

No harm claiming VT at this point I guess.

I may have slipped this when I said that I would flip as a townie rather than as a hider. I asked the mod about this N2 when I was deciding whether I should hide behind someone, since I hadn't had the time committment to the game while at AP's to come up with a good crumbing strategy and all that, and his clarification that I would just flip as townie is (part of) why I didn't use it. I may've just said "won't flip as a hider," though; I haven't checked back at my posts to confirm.

[Iecerint]

I did entertain hide-crumbing a few times while I was at AP's, but I figured scum would probably be hunting for Hide crumbs since they knew someone had just gotten a Hide, which could just result in a free extra NK if they figured it out and it was on town. So I kept putting it off because I never had time to think about the perfect balance, and I didn't even have a target I wanted to try hiding behind. I also wouldn't flip as a Hider, so I couldn't 100% count on people putting the pieces together if it was too vague.

No, I just said no hider flip.

[Xayzeck]

I read the cases, and it's probably because it's just me that I don't have a particular case that I favour. If I do have one, it's Ice's, but only slightly more. Given I've been low on steam most of the game, I'm not as big on the lurkscum aspect of TT's read on Ice + tone of cases.

I haven't read the latest wall by Ice, since I'm out of steam, so that's for another time.